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I was assuming that the professional bad tenants would know when to sue the landlords for illegal stuff, but then again maybe the professional bad tenants get better landlords to take advantage of. We nearly had to sue our current landlord when we first moved in because of a constant cat urine stench. She said it must have been cleaning chemicals and I was starting to look for a lawyer when the smell finally cleared up, so I guess she was right. Constantly breathing in cat urine can actually be dangerous to your health, which would make it legally uninhabitable under CO law.
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May 13, 2018 19:22
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I know a guy who owns 5 duplexes that he rents. I was surprised when he told me that he has never raised rent on a tenant. He explained that he's very, very thorough when selecting tenants so when he finds a good one, he's happy to keep them there as long as they would like. He says he's happy to keep the good tenants around at a fair price rather than drive them away trying to pinch an extra $50/month from them. Most of his tenants are referrals from friends/family/former good tenants. Chasing an extra $50/month rent increase and incurring a month of vacancy will wipe out several months' worth of profit. Pigs get fat, hogs get slaughtered.
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May 13, 2018 22:08
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canyoneer posted:I know a guy who owns 5 duplexes that he rents. I was surprised when he told me that he has never raised rent on a tenant. He explained that he's very, very thorough when selecting tenants so when he finds a good one, he's happy to keep them there as long as they would like. He says he's happy to keep the good tenants around at a fair price rather than drive them away trying to pinch an extra $50/month from them. Most of his tenants are referrals from friends/family/former good tenants. Chasing an extra $50/month rent increase and incurring a month of vacancy will wipe out several months' worth of profit. I know people who do that; find a good renter and they just let them coast as long as they like without trouble, bar the occasional inspection. They’ve had multiple renters going for sub-market rates, but they’re paying for the properties and some income besides. It sucks when they do move out though, because it often involves a total refresh of twenty year old everything.
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May 13, 2018 22:36
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DarkHorse posted:I know people who do that; find a good renter and they just let them coast as long as they like without trouble, bar the occasional inspection. They’ve had multiple renters going for sub-market rates, but they’re paying for the properties and some income besides. Do property taxes not increase? In some areas property taxes have doubled in the last decade, the landlords just eat that cost?
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May 13, 2018 22:56
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Californ-i-a Bankrupting the schools so old boomers can pay $150/yr on a $1,500k property
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May 13, 2018 23:04
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Twerk from Home posted:Do property taxes not increase? In some areas property taxes have doubled in the last decade, the landlords just eat that cost? Property taxes aren’t the majority of the cost of owning a rental unit by any stretch. My last landlord used to just increase me by 10$/month every year.
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May 13, 2018 23:12
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Cryptos are BWM, paying $2000 for a ticket to a crypto conference is fucktarded with money. https://www.cnbc.com/2018/05/13/bitcoin-conferences-flood-new-york-bringing-millions-in-ticket-sales.html
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May 13, 2018 23:32
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canyoneer posted:I know a guy who owns 5 duplexes that he rents. I was surprised when he told me that he has never raised rent on a tenant. He explained that he's very, very thorough when selecting tenants so when he finds a good one, he's happy to keep them there as long as they would like. He says he's happy to keep the good tenants around at a fair price rather than drive them away trying to pinch an extra $50/month from them. Most of his tenants are referrals from friends/family/former good tenants. Chasing an extra $50/month rent increase and incurring a month of vacancy will wipe out several months' worth of profit. That's kind of dumb honestly, I appreciate his angle but I really doubt he is beating the stock market if he doesn't raise rents to competitive rates. If he hasn't raised rents in the average US rental market for 3 or 4 years he could easily have left 20 or 30% on the table. There's no point in putting a bunch of eggs in real estate and accepting all the illiquidity, risk and hassle of tenants on a tax unfriendly basis unless you're going to get a premium over equities. That being said there are millions of casual or accidental landlords out there who are happy to just break even or to just string themselves along and avoid foreclosure. To them any investment that cash flows is a good investment and the concept of opportunity cost of misdeployed capital does not apply. There are other reasons why people don't raise rents, for example they are very cash-flow strapped small-time landlords that they literally can't afford to have any vacancy while looking for a new tenant, or they are renting to friends and family and don't want to induce conflict, or they are just plain old conflict avoidant people who are irrationally afraid of asking for a fair market rent increase.
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May 14, 2018 01:44
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FrozenVent posted:Property taxes aren’t the majority of the cost of owning a rental unit by any stretch. Completely depends upon the unit. I have a unit where property tax is the most expensive line item. It is easy to have rental units, particularly condos where condo fees, property taxes, and insurance dwarf the actual cost of financing the unit.
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May 14, 2018 01:47
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landlords are leeches hth
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May 14, 2018 02:37
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ChickenOfTomorrow posted:landlords are leeches hth Did you know you can get a house with 0% down? Get on the property ladder today!
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May 14, 2018 03:01
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DarkHorse posted:I know people who do that; find a good renter and they just let them coast as long as they like without trouble, bar the occasional inspection. They’ve had multiple renters going for sub-market rates, but they’re paying for the properties and some income besides. That's what we do, for the same reason. Never raise rent, December discounts, prompt repairs of any problems. We're definitely under the going rate by 20ish percent, but it's still profitable and we want to keep our two great tenants.
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May 14, 2018 09:22
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BEHOLD: MY CAPE posted:That's kind of dumb honestly, I appreciate his angle but Not everyone is trying to beep-boop minmax their bank account, dude. OR So how do you feel about municipal-run housing that's rented at a discounted rate to the less fortunate, for example? Annoyed that the city council is taking a loss when they could be pouring their cash into the stock market?
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May 14, 2018 14:04
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All landlords should charge at or above market rate. If they don’t they’re basically stealing from other landlords.
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May 14, 2018 14:14
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Jordan7hm posted:stealing from other landlords. Good.
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May 14, 2018 14:18
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Weatherman posted:Not everyone is trying to beep-boop minmax their bank account, dude. Unless you are an accidental landlord who is forced to rent your primary residence or inherited a portfolio properties or something, nobody is in the business of rental properties except to make money. And like I said, if you're not trying to maximize your returns, why are you acquiring rental properties in the first place instead of investments that are a lot easier to deal with, don't require bookkeeping or administrative chores, involve virtually zero time commitment, don't require cash outlays, don't involve financing, are completely liquid, and treated on a favorable tax basis (in the United States)? My index funds have never called me at 2 in the morning telling me that water is spraying out of the dishwasher. If you want exposure to real estate but don't care enough to maximize your investment returns then why not just divorce yourself from all of the hassle and own REIT shares? Even better do it in your IRA or 401k tax free. Maybe some people are just fixated on the value of a tangible physical asset, don't care to participate in equity markets, or derive genuine pleasure from selling housing to others. Housing as a public good is a completely different thing than housing as a personal investment, absolutely no equation whatsoever. Nice attempt to falsely conflate there, though. My personal feeling on the matter is that guaranteed minimum income and affordable housing development incentives/zoning policies are a much better idea than government owned and operating housing or direct cash housing subsidies but that is a completely separate debate.
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May 14, 2018 14:31
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I can understand the idea of not raising prices on existing tenants. Maybe a little bit at a time, nothing big. If you have a tenant that you know is good then you’re taking slightly lower profit per month in exchange for a known good tenant. If you keep the price at market you’re risking them leaving and getting stuck with a new tenant who won’t pay, or start cooking meth, or trash the place. That all gets expensive fast especially if you have to go through legal proceedings.
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May 14, 2018 14:41
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BEHOLD: MY CAPE posted:Unless you are an accidental landlord who is forced to rent your primary residence or inherited a portfolio properties or something, nobody is in the business of rental properties except to make money. And like I said, if you're not trying to maximize your returns, why are you acquiring rental properties in the first place instead of investments that are a lot easier to deal with, don't require bookkeeping or administrative chores, involve virtually zero time commitment, don't require cash outlays, don't involve financing, are completely liquid, and treated on a favorable tax basis (in the United States)? My index funds have never called me at 2 in the morning telling me that water is spraying out of the dishwasher. If you want exposure to real estate but don't care enough to maximize your investment returns then why not just divorce yourself from all of the hassle and own REIT shares? Even better do it in your IRA or 401k tax free. Maybe some people are just fixated on the value of a tangible physical asset, don't care to participate in equity markets, or derive genuine pleasure from selling housing to others. Well as someone doing exactly what you claim makes so little sense, I'll tell you why. I personally find stocks far too risky and ephemeral. I much prefer a property I can physically visit and I prefer the risk of fire/volcano/comet-impact wiping it out to the far more common stock market crashes and bankruptcies present for stocks. Additionally I can add value to the property by renovating and improvements. That's not possible with stocks. When we started our long term investment strategy we had currency controls in Iceland preventing even looking at REITs, which are more attractive than traditional stocks, but I still prefer spaces I can physically visit, research before buying, and improve through my own labor. It's also enjoyable to be a landlord for us. I've enjoyed nearly every stage, from keeping up with the real estate market for when is a good time to buy another apartment, to learning renovation skills to improve them after buying, to getting better at the interpersonal relationship. It's a direct human involved process that I personally feel more justified extracting rent when I have to use my own labor and time as part of the transaction. A set-it-and-forget-it landlord setup where I just collect a check and don't need to do anything feels really exploitive. I can observe from the news that housing is becoming unaffordable for many, so by keeping rent at a rate that is still profitable for us, but below market rate, I can know I am not contributing to the problem of families moving 3x in 5 years with young kids because of rent hikes and airbnb and all the other society breaking issues that come from unaffordable housing. And finally, because I view our renters as human beings. I've learned their names, we say hello, they bring chocolate from their home country after vacations. It's a relationship where I provide a maintained space and they give me money each month for getting to live there. Seeing as both our rental properties bring in more money than they require to maintain (including all associated costs like taxes, maintenance, planned vacancy, etc) already, hiking rent would be literally scrooge mcduck greed, which we don't feel moral doing. Additionally I consider the relationship with them an investment, albeit one without an easy to compute value. But them liking us and considering us good landlords is definitely worth something. If nothing else, they are more likely to take care of the apartment, but they've voluntarily gotten better and better at paying the day it's due (we have a 5 day window, and early on they paid on day 5, and as time has passed it's gotten closer and closer to day 1) poopinmymouth fucked around with this message at 14:59 on May 14, 2018 |
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May 14, 2018 14:49
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poopinmymouth posted:Well as someone doing exactly what you claim makes so little sense, I'll tell you why. what do your options for equities and reits look like anyhow in iceland nowadays
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May 14, 2018 14:52
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bob dobbs is dead posted:what do your options for equities and reits look like anyhow in iceland nowadays The sole REIT like org is an invite only hedge fund for the wealthiest Icelanders to extract rent from everyone else without doing anything. We aren't nearly wealthy enough to even try to apply (nor would we want to). Stock market is even more volatile than the NYSE. There have been multiple times in the past 50 years where someone exposed to the Icelandic stock market would have had their investments totally wiped out. But capital controls are gone now, so we could just invest in any REIT or stock we want elsewhere. But we've already made, started, and begun to enjoy the returns from a more local and direct plan (small scale landlording).
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May 14, 2018 14:57
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From watching friends deal with the struggles of being a landlord, there is absolutely value in a long-term, consistently paying tenant. If you're still cash flow positive and the rent is not signifigantly below market value, id take less money if I knew the check was coming every month.
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May 14, 2018 14:58
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People greatly overestimate the risk of tenants leaving due to a modest rent increase. I'm talking like 5% - few rental markets ever increase faster than that annually. Remember that it is a huge loving hassle to move, you have to pack up or get rid of stuff, spend time looking for a new place to live, float a bunch of cash for rent and deposit, and spend even more time to actually move. You may get stuck paying overlapping rent, cleaning expenses, etc. When you present tenants with a fair, modest rent increase that is in line with their other options, and you are a known good landlord who is easy to contact, responsive to problems, does not avoid maintenance, they will almost always choose to pay the rent increase. The known good landlord dynamic is important to tenants just like the known good tenant is important to landlords.
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May 14, 2018 14:59
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poopinmymouth posted:Well as someone doing exactly what you claim makes so little sense, I'll tell you why. Completely fair, I understand your situation in Iceland in terms of investment opportunities is very very different than that in the United States. We take access to world equity markets and free flow of US dollars across borders completely for granted. I completely agree that it is important for tenants to feel like you are a good landlord however you endeavor to do so.
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May 14, 2018 15:03
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poopinmymouth posted:The sole REIT like org is an invite only hedge fund for the wealthiest Icelanders to extract rent from everyone else without doing anything. We aren't nearly wealthy enough to even try to apply (nor would we want to). doesn't sound like you should be lp to a hedge fund, but does sound like you should do some goddamn hedging (do you have any exposure to world markets at all or hedging positions on iceland stuff)
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May 14, 2018 15:07
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One of my coworkers left his cushy, safe job at an investment bank a few weeks ago to try to become a bitcoin youtube personality and also a DJ on the side. He has not made a single youtube video or built up any sort of social media following before leaving his job, and from what I can see all he does is share Jordan Peterson lectures all day.
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May 14, 2018 15:07
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22 Eargesplitten posted:Probably the same way that subprime lenders make money. Obscenely high rates, huge deposits, and an added bonus of putting as little money into the place as possible without running afoul of the local landlord-tenant law.
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May 14, 2018 15:33
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get a waterbed and you never need to buy a mattress again 
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May 14, 2018 15:34
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I don't want this to turn into book chat but I have to highly, HIGHLY, HIGHLY recommend Matthew Desmond's Evicted: Poverty and Profit in the American City.
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May 14, 2018 16:07
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BEHOLD: MY CAPE posted:People greatly overestimate the risk of tenants leaving due to a modest rent increase. I'm talking like 5% - few rental markets ever increase faster than that annually. Remember that it is a huge loving hassle to move, you have to pack up or get rid of stuff, spend time looking for a new place to live, float a bunch of cash for rent and deposit, and spend even more time to actually move. You may get stuck paying overlapping rent, cleaning expenses, etc. When you present tenants with a fair, modest rent increase that is in line with their other options, and you are a known good landlord who is easy to contact, responsive to problems, does not avoid maintenance, they will almost always choose to pay the rent increase. The known good landlord dynamic is important to tenants just like the known good tenant is important to landlords. It's kind of a weird dynamic but it works for me.
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May 14, 2018 16:48
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Dwight Eisenhower posted:get a waterbed and you never need to buy a mattress again Waterbed heaters cost $100+ each year in electricity and make me think of sleazy guys from the 70s.
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May 14, 2018 19:44
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Inept posted:Waterbed heaters cost $100+ each year in electricity and make me think of sleazy guys from the 70s. You don't have to run a heater though, especially if you like to sleep in the cold. I had a waterbed for years and never ever plugged the thing in. When it was hot out in the summer, the cool waterbed was heavenly!
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May 14, 2018 19:46
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Dwight Eisenhower posted:get a waterbed and you never find a place that will rent to you again Fixed.
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May 14, 2018 19:54
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Look at this non-homeowner 
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May 14, 2018 20:01
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Dwight Eisenhower posted:get a waterbed and you never need to buy a mattress again Wait until you have a seam leak, then have to run to one of the FEW places that sell supplies to get a hose and hookup to the bathroom sink to drain the thing so it doesn't flood the house, then have to screw with the sink so that it doesn't overflow your sink either. Or you can do the old fashioned "suck on the hose until it creates enough suction to drain into the bathtub." But the water in those beds is gross and often algae filled. Also, draining my mom's waterbed when she passed away, we discovered she put out cigarettes by opening the cap and sticking them in the waterbed. Gag.
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May 14, 2018 20:38
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blackmet posted:Also, draining my mom's waterbed when she passed away, we discovered she put out cigarettes by opening the cap and sticking them in the waterbed. Gag. 
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May 14, 2018 20:54
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You’re supposed to put chlorine in them so the water doesn’t get gross though. I learned this when I helped a classmate install one in their dorm room. In the early 2000’s.
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May 14, 2018 21:05
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22 Eargesplitten posted:Look at this non-homeowner Yep, guilty as charged. Recent_arrival_to_Bay_Area.txt where renting is BWM but it's less BWM than buying. 
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May 14, 2018 21:08
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blackmet posted:Also, draining my mom's waterbed when she passed away, we discovered she put out cigarettes by opening the cap and sticking them in the waterbed. Gag. Jesus christ
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May 14, 2018 21:55
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blackmet posted:Also, draining my mom's waterbed when she passed away, we discovered she put out cigarettes by opening the cap and sticking them in the waterbed. Gag. Hell yea bachelor thread is back
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May 14, 2018 21:56
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Credit card bill just arrived. It has my last name on it and my dogs first name......OP posted:It is from First Premier Bank. Credit limit - $800. Amount owed $869. Showed up in the mail today. It has my address on the bill, my last name on the bill, and the first name is, I poo poo you not, my dog. I have credit monitoring, and it is certainly not my SSN tied to this card. It is not the wife's either. Do I even bother call this First Premier Bank, and stay on the phone with what I am going to assume is 1 dumb rear end customer service rep after another. Or just throw this thing in the trash? quote:You need to have a frank and direct conversation with your dog about his spending habits. Do it in a loving way so your dog doesn't feel he's being attacked, but help him understand that this is not okay.
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May 14, 2018 22:22
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