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What do you guys think of a Rogue-Swashbuckler 3/Fighter 2 working towards Battlemaster next level? Was thinking human probably, but a halfling would be extra sneaky and maneuverable.
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May 12, 2018 06:45
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Open Marriage Night posted:What do you guys think of a Rogue-Swashbuckler 3/Fighter 2 working towards Battlemaster next level? Was thinking human probably, but a halfling would be extra sneaky and maneuverable. Less effective than getting either class by itself to 5, imo. By splitting your levels in this way, you're delaying your first ASI and your big level 5 features: for Fighter, Extra Attack; for Rogue, Uncanny Dodge/SA scaling.
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May 12, 2018 07:12
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CeallaSo posted:The Scholar seems "OK," if that means "this needs a lot of work but is the start of something that could be fun." I still prefer this Variant Fighter as the class that gets maneuvers as its unique feature, but I understand that there isn't much else to go on if you're trying to build a class that really encapsulates what made the Warlord so special. No more trip attack, wtf?
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May 12, 2018 10:34
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So I've gotten in quite the pickle after one session of a new 5e game. I'm not running because I'm pretty sick of it except for campaigns I make myself, but everyone else is new and looks to me for guidance which actually is working out. But everyone is having a problem that makes them unlikely to play after this one session and I'd like advice on whether to try to salvage the situation or suggest moving to a different game. Some additional context: We tried to start at level 1, and literally everybody agreed that it was boring them to death within 20 minutes of the first combat, so we rerolled as level 3 and tried again, this time getting through the first session but with all the problems I'm about to explain. My personal friend is not new to D&D but is new to 5e. He tried to make a fighter that is not especially bright at combat because he wanted to be a politician, which means CHA is his highest score and he put all the investment he could into social skills. It's a Champion fighter because that fits with the character motivation better. I did warn him against taking Champion but he insisted, hoping that the non-combat aspects of the character would keep it interesting. It didn't. He's been looking over the other classes and is dismayed about how little you can customize them without investing in multiclass. Without the Warlord he says the only class that looks interesting in 5e is the Cleric. One of the girls rolled a Druid because she likes to play shapeshifters. She didn't understand that Druids don't get access to all of their animal forms at level 1. After learning that she has to wait until level 8 to turn into anything that can fly, she's pretty much said she doesn't want to play 5e anymore and won't be showing up next time we play. Another girl rolled a Cleric and was doing fine at first, but towards the end of combat she ran out of spell slots even after conserving them to just healing players. She now feels her only useful spell is Healing Word and that the entire rest of her spell list is useless because she can't rely on any of us to be able to heal up ourselves between combats. I'm playing a bard but it's specced towards defensive buffs rather than healing. You may be thinking "wait, that's potentially three classes that can heal, and you were still having trouble keeping HP up?", and you'd be right. Our druid didn't know she could heal until after the game, but besides that, we really were getting wrecked in combat even without crits against the PCs. Only our cleric has optimized armor so everyone else is getting hit more than "should" happen. Then there's the DM, whom I assured that the game would be fine RAW for at least a couple levels, but she lurks this thread and is anxious about all the stuff she's going to have to modify just to make it "fair" for the players. She's terrified of having an accidental TPK and even after explaining how to fudge dice rolls, after this first combat where almost everyone was at 0 hp for part of the fight it's not helped. I tried bringing up 4e to them before we started but the stigma was "it's not real D&D", so they went with 5e, but now I'm not sure what to do. I want to push 4e again because they specifically want to "play D&D", not some other system, and it solves almost all of the issues that came up, but honestly it looks to me like we're not going to get a second chance. Does anyone have advice?
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May 12, 2018 15:59
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Give everyone 18s in all stats and top end armor of whatever type they want and then go from there
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May 12, 2018 16:03
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If its not fun then do something else. Seems so simple to me.
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May 12, 2018 16:04
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RyuHimora posted:So I've gotten in quite the pickle after one session of a new 5e game. I'm not running because I'm pretty sick of it except for campaigns I make myself, but everyone else is new and looks to me for guidance which actually is working out. But everyone is having a problem that makes them unlikely to play after this one session and I'd like advice on whether to try to salvage the situation or suggest moving to a different game. Dear lurking GM: Play 4E. it's what they want to play, they just don't know it.
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May 12, 2018 16:08
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RyuHimora posted:So I've gotten in quite the pickle after one session of a new 5e game. I'm not running because I'm pretty sick of it except for campaigns I make myself, but everyone else is new and looks to me for guidance which actually is working out. But everyone is having a problem that makes them unlikely to play after this one session and I'd like advice on whether to try to salvage the situation or suggest moving to a different game. Go play something else. Aside from the Cleric who sounds like they've got the wrong impression of that the class does, and HP issues being a consequence of a party that's weak at combat, everything you've mentioned is a function of how D&D 5e works. This handy guide could help.
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May 12, 2018 16:15
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Cassa posted:No more trip attack, wtf? It's still there, it's just that now it's the Superiority version of Arresting Strike. So you can use your reaction to halve something's movement as often as you want, but you can only use the trip effect twice per short rest. Commander's Strike is still worthless, though. In fact this version might be even more useless since it doesn't add damage to your ally's attack.
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May 12, 2018 18:29
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RyuHimora posted:So I've gotten in quite the pickle after one session of a new 5e game. I'm not running because I'm pretty sick of it except for campaigns I make myself, but everyone else is new and looks to me for guidance which actually is working out. But everyone is having a problem that makes them unlikely to play after this one session and I'd like advice on whether to try to salvage the situation or suggest moving to a different game. More hindsight than advice at this point, but much of this story highlights the importance of a session zero. When the Fighter suggests putting his 15 in cha instead of his combat stat, that's the time (rather than after dice begin hitting the table) to explain to him that 5e isn't exactly supportive of zany builds like that. The Druid could have been walked through her spell list and shown that Wild Shape is something that evolves as a character levels up rather than discovering things during or after the first session. If all of the players are still only half-satisfied at best with what they can expect from their characters, that's a great opportunity to pitch why your alternate system of choice might be more fun for everyone! Though you're probably already aware that by making the pitch, you'll basically be volunteered to DM. Out of curiosity, did the DM modify any encounters for your higher starting level? Even a bunch of novices playing poorly-built characters should be able to roll over the first chapter or two of any published adventure as-written at level 3 simply by weight of their additional HP and spell slots. Characters going down so often that the Cleric felt restricted to heal-botting sounds suspiciously like the table missed some fairly important class features and/or gameplay elements. Was the party ever able to short rest and spend hit dice to top off their HP after a fight? Was the Fighter making use of Second Wind? If the Druid was using Wild Shape, was she aware that the animal's HP goes on top of her own as temporary HP? Any particular reason characters aren't in optimized armor? If the DM did indeed modify the encounters, did she overcorrect?
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May 12, 2018 18:31
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I wonder how difficult it would be to switch 4E to a flatter math setup. Being able to say "Hit 20 Strength, that's Strength done" is one of the few things that I think are an improvement in 5e.
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May 12, 2018 18:42
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Sounds like they want a higher powered and possibly more narrative game rather than one with tactical combat at all.
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May 12, 2018 18:43
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Splicer posted:I wonder how difficult it would be to switch 4E to a flatter math setup. Being able to say "Hit 20 Strength, that's Strength done" is one of the few things that I think are an improvement in 5e. https://songoftheblade.wordpress.com/2017/05/07/simplified-modifiers-for-dd-4e/
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May 12, 2018 18:47
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gradenko_2000 posted:https://songoftheblade.wordpress.com/2017/05/07/simplified-modifiers-for-dd-4e/ This owns.
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May 12, 2018 19:13
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Your DM shouldnt feel that theyre less good of a DM due to not being able to fix 5e on the fly. The math in 5e is fundamentally hosed.Conspiratiorist posted:Go play something else. Aside from the Cleric who sounds like they've got the wrong impression of that the class does, and HP issues being a consequence of a party that's weak at combat, everything you've mentioned is a function of how D&D 5e works. Absolutely not. The cleric is the defacto healer in 5e and theres a domain entirely dedicated to it. However, Healing itself is such a non-action other than bumping people back up from 0 that it may as well never matter, its absolutely a system ignorance trap. 5e, going by mechanics and maths, wants you to prevent damage, not heal it. Healing Word is the best and only in-battle healing worth anyones time. hyphz posted:Sounds like they want a higher powered and possibly more narrative game rather than one with tactical combat at all. They aound starved for meaningful choice imo. Most players ive found dont mind the crunch of 5e, but that your available range of choices is not close to being equally valuable. Rigged Death Trap fucked around with this message at 19:47 on May 12, 2018 |
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May 12, 2018 19:41
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Rigged Death Trap posted:They aound starved for meaningful choice imo. Most players ive found dont mind the crunch of 5e, but that your available range of choices is not close to being equally valuable. I was more thinking about the one who wanted to shapeshift into a bird early on. Since flight in a tactical system is a massive advantage, thus being why it is delayed, it seems they want to be thinking about their character in terms of cool stuff more than tactical utility.
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May 12, 2018 22:18
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RyuHimora posted:they specifically want to "play D&D" No, they don't. They say they do. They think they do. But they are actively looking for an experience which D&D 5e is not supposed to deliver; e.g. frequent healing and also casting other spells, liberal use of shapeshifting, a Fighter who can go for a social focus and still remain a strong and interesting Fighter. It's like only listening to jazz because you "want to listen to jazz", even though you're actually really into synths and electro sounds and keep being disappointed by jazz. Stop. Listening. To. Jazz. I say the following as someone who likes D&D: it's not the end-all, be-all of RPGs. Go play something else, something which actually meets your demands. Use the right tool for the job. The letters "D&D" on the cover of a book/pdf has no inherent value and will not make your game any more entertaining.
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May 12, 2018 22:36
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Via twitter the monsters by challenge rating and monsters by environment for the new book.   
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May 12, 2018 22:46
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RyuHimora posted:Does anyone have advice? I try not to be That PbtA Guy... but this group sounds really ripe for Dungeon World. It's dressed up like D&D (It even has Dungeon in the title!) but it strips away a lot of the problems your group has. The druid can turn into a bird from day 1, the cleric can get a heal as a cantrip and never worry about it. The fighter still isn't going to have a great time with a Cha based fighter, but he could easily play a Barbarian focused on Fame & Glory, and take: My Love For You Is Like A Truck When you perform a feat of strength, name someone present whom you have impressed, and take +1 forward to parley with them. And flex his way into office. Actually, now that I'm looking at it, Barbarian Politician could work really well. Wide Wanderer lets you avoid social faux pas, Eye For Weakness to know what your opponents vulnerabilities are in a debate, Khan of Khans let you pay your hiring campaign manager by sharing your fame, take a Bard multiclass move for being better at talking or get bonuses for helping people...
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May 12, 2018 22:47
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I too am perplexed by the group that needs DnD but hates DnD. You need to clarify wtf they thought was going to happen.
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May 12, 2018 22:53
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gradenko_2000 posted:https://songoftheblade.wordpress.com/2017/05/07/simplified-modifiers-for-dd-4e/ hyphz posted:I was more thinking about the one who wanted to shapeshift into a bird early on. Since flight in a tactical system is a massive advantage, thus being why it is delayed, it seems they want to be thinking about their character in terms of cool stuff more than tactical utility.
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May 12, 2018 22:54
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Splicer posted:but there's two (three?) races that start with flight at level 1... Elysiume fucked around with this message at 23:04 on May 12, 2018 |
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May 12, 2018 23:02
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The assimar which are legal can get temporary flight at early levels.
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May 12, 2018 23:14
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RyuHimora posted:I tried bringing up 4e to them before we started but the stigma was "it's not real D&D", so they went with 5e, but now I'm not sure what to do. I want to push 4e again because they specifically want to "play D&D", not some other system, and it solves almost all of the issues that came up, but honestly it looks to me like we're not going to get a second chance. Does anyone have advice? Yeah your group wants to either play 4e if they want tactical combat, or Dungeon World if they don't. 13th Age is also an option if they like combat but don't like grids.
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May 13, 2018 00:25
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Slippery42 posted:Out of curiosity, did the DM modify any encounters for your higher starting level? Even a bunch of novices playing poorly-built characters should be able to roll over the first chapter or two of any published adventure as-written at level 3 simply by weight of their additional HP and spell slots. Characters going down so often that the Cleric felt restricted to heal-botting sounds suspiciously like the table missed some fairly important class features and/or gameplay elements. Was the party ever able to short rest and spend hit dice to top off their HP after a fight? Was the Fighter making use of Second Wind? If the Druid was using Wild Shape, was she aware that the animal's HP goes on top of her own as temporary HP? Any particular reason characters aren't in optimized armor? If the DM did indeed modify the encounters, did she overcorrect? Yes. We found a different first-encounter from another module and reskinned it so we didn't have to change stories. We did manage to do a short rest, but the cleric was pretty disgusted with how everyone was only able to heal less than half their full hp even after rolling all their hit dice. Don't remember if the Fighter used second wind. Druid wild shaped once into some kind of cat at the start and then reverted to cast other spells, not choosing another wild shape. The armor problem I think was an OOC one, they were all thinking "Well I wouldn't want to wear that all day", which I had forgotten to talk them out of before the session started. But the biggest problem was the DM never rolled below 12 on the die the entire session. She crit me once, which turned out to be a dud crit and only did normal damage, but other than that it was just hit after hit with no letup. Rigged Death Trap posted:They aound starved for meaningful choice imo. Most players ive found dont mind the crunch of 5e, but that your available range of choices is not close to being equally valuable. This seems to be exactly the point - the three other players were lamenting after the game about how their "choice" of character abilities were limited to "I hit a guy" and even when the druid tried to get some status effects up they were only single target spells, which didn't really help. fake edit: right as I was about to post this the GM messaged me asking to restate my reasons why 4e was a better game. Let's see if it sticks this time 
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May 13, 2018 01:30
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One of my players just used the Ring of the Grammarian to change Bane into Sane to dispel a Crown of Madness on one of his party members I love this game
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May 13, 2018 03:22
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RyuHimora posted:the GM messaged me asking to restate my reasons why 4e was a better game. Let's see if it sticks this time For that matter tell them to play OwoD if thats what they want. Lol.
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May 13, 2018 03:47
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FRINGE posted:Dont just manipulate them so you can win edition war points. Be clear that the game will be mostly based on moving figures on a grid, and most likely need computer assistance for the calculations. It is not "a fun game telling stories about shapeshifting and politics". Bullshit bet you i can do a better game of narrative 4 than 5e edit also lol at the "calculations" of 4e
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May 13, 2018 07:16
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Elfgames posted:Bullshit bet you i can do a better game of narrative 4 than 5e He's clearly being sarcastic. Look at how he recommends oWoD for telling stories about shapeshifting and politics. That said, a few things to keep in mind: 1. The Druid is still not going to shapeshift into whatever all the time at level 1. No edition of D&D ever did that, IIRC. It does provide some more leeway by saying your stats usually don't change and most shapes are just for cool flavortext (which eliminates a lot of page-flipping and headaches, thank god) but picking up flight and such requires picking up specific powers at higher levels. 2. 4e is not the holy grail of gaming, it has flaws of its own. It sounds like a better match for your group's desires, but be aware that it's just an improvement, not the Promised Land. Keep expectations realistic. 3. Very importantly, it can take a moment to see past the presentation of 4e. It has game mechanics almost like programming code, with specific templates for how powers (abilities, spells) look and how certain effects are worded. Crucially, this presentation is not how the game plays. It's like looking at binary code of an mp3; when you open it up, you hear music, not ones and zeros. (Do people still remember what an mp3 is? I feel old now.) Or look at the genetic code of a cat. It's all GTCA's because that's how they're built, but that is NOT what you'd see in real life. 4e plays better than it reads.
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May 13, 2018 07:54
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RyuHimora posted:fake edit: right as I was about to post this the GM messaged me asking to restate my reasons why 4e was a better game. Let's see if it sticks this time Sage Genesis posted:3. Very importantly, it can take a moment to see past the presentation of 4e. It has game mechanics almost like programming code, with specific templates for how powers (abilities, spells) look and how certain effects are worded. Crucially, this presentation is not how the game plays. It's like looking at binary code of an mp3; when you open it up, you hear music, not ones and zeros. (Do people still remember what an mp3 is? I feel old now.) Or look at the genetic code of a cat. It's all GTCA's because that's how they're built, but that is NOT what you'd see in real life. 4e plays better than it reads. (errataed table attached, but read the whole page.) 
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May 13, 2018 13:08
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The big part of this, which extends to all D&D, and really all tabletop games is to reward behaviour you want to encourage. a lot of people would think 'hmm... That's a tough thing to do, better make a skill check.' And then think about how hard it is. Instead, think 'how rad is this/do I want to encourage this?' And if the answer is yes, facilitate it. Whether that be by an easier skill check or by creating opportunities, the more a player gets to play and decide, the more invested they feel, and the more comfortable they are with trying again. In the end it's about getting together and telling a story/having fun with your friends. Don't let rules systems or design, good or bad, get in the way of that.
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May 13, 2018 13:46
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Thinking of ways to make the Klarg fight spicier before tomorrow's session and I've come down to "make one of the goblins with him a full-on caster" or "give him some Legendary Actions" That said I don't want to fully overdo it since he can potentially hit one of them for a shitload of damage as is.
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May 13, 2018 20:35
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RyuHimora posted:So I've gotten in quite the pickle after one session of a new 5e game. If, and only if, they decide they really need to play 5e and nothing else? Here's the best advice I can give that isn't the 'play something else' everyone has already been saying. The fighter needs to play a bladebard or bladelock. These will give him the charisma that lets him be a good politician and do the fluff he wants, while also giving him a ton of useful things to do. The druid... I dunno. Druid, especially moon druids, are already super good powerful shifters who are incredibly strong. But if she wants to be transforming all the time constantly, you might ask your GM to make a houserule so that creatures X CR under your allowed CR can be taken for free, without using one of your two shifts? This will be a bonus for her stealth capabilities mostly, as she takes the forms of rats and frogs for awhile. I dunno honestly. The cleric... push the others to get better AC I guess? She should not be running out of spell slots in a day just from healing. Also, is she actually using healing word to heal between battles? if so, that's inefficient compared to cure wounds. The benefit of healing word is being able to smack something while healing an ally at the same time. Ask the druid to pick up Goodberry, since it has a 24 hour duration, so if she ever ends with extra spell slots, she can make a casting or two of goodberries for between combat healing. It's super useful. You say you are defensive bard... are you a lore bard? Are you remembering to use cutting words to prevent people from hitting? Memorize your party's AC, and be ready to say 'I use cutting words' any time the result is with 2, maybe 3 of hitting their ac. A good starting level 3 bard can prevent 5 hits a day, which can be a big deal at low levels. And then at 5 you start being able to prevent 5 hits per short rest. Song of rest is also basically 5 free healing words per short rest. To take even more hassle off your overworked cleric. KittyEmpress fucked around with this message at 21:03 on May 13, 2018 |
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May 13, 2018 20:56
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Blockhouse posted:Thinking of ways to make the Klarg fight spicier before tomorrow's session and I've come down to "make one of the goblins with him a full-on caster" or "give him some Legendary Actions" I've come to the conclusion that a couple legendary actions that move PCs or the monster around, or change the map layout are awesome to give any boss monster to keep them feeling threatening without juicing up their damage output.
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May 13, 2018 21:13
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Finally got my wife to play D&D. To celebrate, I drew their characters. Socially awkward forest gnome sisters, one is a nature cleric with 7 CHA, and the other is a pretty wizard. They both wanted simple characters, but decided to roll randomly anyway, and they got two of the more complicated ones. They cling together.
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May 13, 2018 21:34
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If you want to make any 5E encounter spicier, just look at the 4E MM and copy some of the abilities the monsters used to have. They are mostly sacks of HP in 5E, but 4E had a lot of interesting little special abilities are a lot of different monsters. Just compare a dragon in 4E to 5E... and the flavorful amount of cool stuff they can do. If you disagree with this post, please forward it to Matt Colville instead of me tia https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QoELQ7px9ws
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May 13, 2018 21:53
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Firstborn posted:If you want to make any 5E encounter spicier, just look at the 4E MM and copy some of the abilities the monsters used to have. They are mostly sacks of HP in 5E, but 4E had a lot of interesting little special abilities are a lot of different monsters. Just compare a dragon in 4E to 5E... and the flavorful amount of cool stuff they can do. Mat Colville did a video on this. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QoELQ7px9ws
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May 13, 2018 21:55
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I linked the video in the post you quoted.
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May 13, 2018 22:17
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Y'all know if Tome of Foes is going to have a significant Fey presence in the statblocks? My party is heading to the Feywild soon(ish) and while I have a lot of stuff available, not much of it includes archfey for when they inevitably fail to negotiate and try to murderhobo. Or any other edition resources I can adapt. My party is level 12 and the MM is already really lacking in foes for this bracket, I think.
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May 13, 2018 23:25
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| # ? May 29, 2024 14:12 |
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Malpais Legate posted:Y'all know if Tome of Foes is going to have a significant Fey presence in the statblocks? My party is heading to the Feywild soon(ish) and while I have a lot of stuff available, not much of it includes archfey for when they inevitably fail to negotiate and try to murderhobo. Tome of Beasts has archfey and other feywild critters you can use.
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May 13, 2018 23:28
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