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malhavok
Jan 18, 2013

daslog posted:

There's a reason that no company has a game like this. It's really hard to pull off a game where PVP combat matters and keep your player base. The losers have a tendency to Simply abandon your game because no one likes losing for fun.

That goes double for games where you actually have something worth fighting for. So you end up in this place where you have to balance making battles meaningful yet at the same time not pissing off the losers so much that they move on to the next big thing.

So never mind getting MMO combat balanced and fun. That's the easy part.

That's the main issue their entire game design revolves around solving, so at least they understand what they are facing.

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Zaodai
May 23, 2009

Death before dishonor?
Your terms are accepted.


Plus making the combat balanced and fun will solve some of the "how do we get the losing side to stick around?" quandary. And you'd always be gathering resources for your eternal kingdom or whatever your little pocket dimension is called, so you'd be stronger for the next campaign.

daslog
Dec 10, 2008

#essereFerrari

Zaodai posted:

Plus making the combat balanced and fun will solve some of the "how do we get the losing side to stick around?" quandary. And you'd always be gathering resources for your eternal kingdom or whatever your little pocket dimension is called, so you'd be stronger for the next campaign.

Balanced combat doesn't really matter. The losing side usually loses because they don't have the numbers to beat the zerg.. When the next campaign comes around, the loser still won't have the numbers and they will get zerged all over again

What really matters is having a core group of catassers thelat will play 12 hours a day every day from Mom's basement. They can then attract a large group of followers to fill the ranks with cannon fodder

daslog fucked around with this message at 20:05 on Apr 6, 2018

BadLlama
Jan 13, 2006

Well I think they are partially trying to solve that with the factions, rather than having 3 factions that fight for overall power, you have two and then a third that tries to keep everything in balance. Who knows how it will work though.

malhavok
Jan 18, 2013

BadLlama posted:

Well I think they are partially trying to solve that with the factions, rather than having 3 factions that fight for overall power, you have two and then a third that tries to keep everything in balance. Who knows how it will work though.

That's just one of the rule sets, personally i only care about the dregs.

mightygerm
Jun 29, 2002



5.6 Patch Notes preview with Blair and Todd: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=06285SkObxQ&t=22s
TLDR, here's the big stuff coming in 5.6:
Fae (with double jump + gliding)
Gunicean double jump
Wood-Elf male and High-Elf male
Monarch/Noble/Vassal system for EKs - will let multiple people build in the same kingdom
Season - just spring for now, will give a global buff to gathering
Skill UI/UX overhaul , will come with a skill wipe
Maybe an item wipe

If I had to hazard a guess, it would be coming out around end of april/early may.

5.7+ planned features they talked about were:
New map
Full season implementation
Crafting projects
Frostweaver is 'design complete'

This is pure speculation, but if they keep knocking out a couple major features every month, I could see them being mostly feature complete by the end of the year. I still doubt that would be ready for launch however, since they'd probably need a couple of balance and polish passes once everything is in the game.

Subjunctive
Sep 12, 2006

✨sparkle and shine✨

mightygerm posted:

Season - just spring for now, will give a global buff to gathering

This is silly, nothing’s ripe in spring.

Drakkus
May 14, 2002

yum~

Subjunctive posted:

This is silly, nothing’s ripe in spring.

It might be a game-play choice rather than a lore one. The campaign seasons normally start with Spring, then end in Winter. Logically you'd want the initial season to benefit harvesting as players would need to be gathering a lot of material early on.

Mux
Aug 4, 2010

Have they added a stealth class to the game yet or talked about solo gank class options yet?

Orv
May 4, 2011

Mux posted:

Have they added a stealth class to the game yet or talked about solo gank class options yet?

Assassin is the straight up invisible stealth class, Guinecians get inbuilt stealth (though it is meant to be less good and is currently finicky to terrible depending on the patch) and there are stealth/invisibility granting disciplines. As it stands, stats and general TTK are a bit too long if you're looking to be a TBC era Rogue just vanishing people from existence and walking away scott free, and Assassin is in kind of a bad place. There will probably be some range of abilities/builds that will allow you to at least get a significant or insurmountable leg up on people you gank when the game launches.

Mux
Aug 4, 2010

Orv posted:

Assassin is the straight up invisible stealth class, Guinecians get inbuilt stealth (though it is meant to be less good and is currently finicky to terrible depending on the patch) and there are stealth/invisibility granting disciplines. As it stands, stats and general TTK are a bit too long if you're looking to be a TBC era Rogue just vanishing people from existence and walking away scott free, and Assassin is in kind of a bad place. There will probably be some range of abilities/builds that will allow you to at least get a significant or insurmountable leg up on people you gank when the game launches.

I meant more from the perspective of a former Shadowbane player. It was pretty easy depending on your build to fly in, kill like 2-3 grinders, loot, and fly away. Most reaction forces would still take a few minutes to muster, grab gear, etc.

Is the hamster's stealth still basically "BURROW FURIOUSLY INTO GROUND, MOVE AROUND, BUT WHY CAN THE ENEMY STILL SEE MY DIRT MOUND MOVING?!?!1"?

Orv
May 4, 2011
Yeah, but stealth actually works now so maybe they won't see it. They'll still see it because the stealth and vision opposing checks start out basically equal without any training so you'll never really surprise anyone that's paying attention.

As for that kind of thing, maybe? It'll remain hard to really say for some time yet.

BadLlama
Jan 13, 2006

Imo its probably best if they avoid a stealth magic assassin class that can just blow cooldowns kill 2-3 people and walk away.

Mux
Aug 4, 2010

That's not how it was done in Shadowbane. You literally just had a better build than 99% of the server, and would solo idiots who only knew how to afk leech/grind.

malhavok
Jan 18, 2013
Grinders and farmers were not usually built to fight back or not even there 90% of the time.

Jamcreek
Apr 18, 2018
If this is supposed to be the spiritual successor of Shadowbane.
I’m sad to see that the graphics and artwork looks like they got inspiration from My little ponie or something like that.

Capntastic
Jan 13, 2005

A dog begins eating a dusty old coil of rope but there's a nail in it.

Jamcreek posted:

If this is supposed to be the spiritual successor of Shadowbane.
I’m sad to see that the graphics and artwork looks like they got inspiration from My little ponie or something like that.

Nah Shadowbane was a boring mess visually, dunno where you get the MLP comparison from other than “there is green grass and blue sky”

Jamcreek
Apr 18, 2018

Capntastic posted:

Nah Shadowbane was a boring mess visually, dunno where you get the MLP comparison from other than “there is green grass and blue sky”

Shadowbane was Dark, gothic-like and something out of a Doom-metal album.

Crowfall looks more Cartoonish. Atleast that is my opinion.

BadLlama
Jan 13, 2006

It definitely is going down the "cartoonish" looking route for graphics but they make it look good in my opinion.

Capntastic
Jan 13, 2005

A dog begins eating a dusty old coil of rope but there's a nail in it.

Jamcreek posted:

Shadowbane was Dark, gothic-like and something out of a Doom-metal album.

Crowfall looks more Cartoonish. Atleast that is my opinion.

Shadowbane was brown and gross, have you looked at it recently?

I agree with Crowfall being sort of cartoony but more in a Team Fortress 2 way than MLP. Semantics!!

I think Crowfall looks good for what it is trying to be, especially since super detailed models and textures cost time and money.

malhavok
Jan 18, 2013
Shadowbane was both brown and gross and a gothic doom metal album. One is referring to the environment and the other to character models/architecture.

Jamcreek
Apr 18, 2018

malhavok posted:

Shadowbane was both brown and gross and a gothic doom metal album. One is referring to the environment and the other to character models/architecture.


SB was a great game in many ways.
Horrible in a few ways to.

I miss that game a lot.

Orv
May 4, 2011

Jamcreek posted:

Shadowbane was Dark, gothic-like and something out of a Doom-metal album.

Crowfall looks more Cartoonish. Atleast that is my opinion.

Shadowbane looked dark and gothic because it was old enough that the soup of textures was kinda that way if you squinted. It actually just looked like poo poo, even for its time.

Jamcreek
Apr 18, 2018

Orv posted:

Shadowbane looked dark and gothic because it was old enough that the soup of textures was kinda that way if you squinted. It actually just looked like poo poo, even for its time.


You might be right. But still, i would like to see more of that style in future mmos. Enough with the cartoonish
And childish graphics in games.

At least that is my opinion.

Elblanco
May 26, 2008
I've watched crowfall a bit since 2015 and right now I'm shopping around for a B2P mmo to mess around with. Would this be worth it right now? Like is there stuff to do if I just grab the $50 bundle, or would I be just sitting in my own little kingdom farming all day? I love the idea of this game, just want to make sure I can actually have fun with it as it is.

Orv
May 4, 2011

Elblanco posted:

I've watched crowfall a bit since 2015 and right now I'm shopping around for a B2P mmo to mess around with. Would this be worth it right now? Like is there stuff to do if I just grab the $50 bundle, or would I be just sitting in my own little kingdom farming all day? I love the idea of this game, just want to make sure I can actually have fun with it as it is.

Still not a game.

super sweet best pal
Nov 18, 2009

Still more of a game than Star Citizen.

malhavok
Jan 18, 2013

Elblanco posted:

I've watched crowfall a bit since 2015 and right now I'm shopping around for a B2P mmo to mess around with. Would this be worth it right now? Like is there stuff to do if I just grab the $50 bundle, or would I be just sitting in my own little kingdom farming all day? I love the idea of this game, just want to make sure I can actually have fun with it as it is.

I login once in a while to check their progress, which is going well for a game of this budget. This is still not something you can just play for fun as if it were an early access game though, it's still just a test environment.

BadLlama
Jan 13, 2006

malhavok posted:

I login once in a while to check their progress, which is going well for a game of this budget. This is still not something you can just play for fun as if it were an early access game though, it's still just a test environment.

Same. Every now and then I'll update, make a character, chop some wood look at some spells then logout for a month or two.

forge
Feb 26, 2006
So basically every current mmorpg which has used crowd funding..

Orv
May 4, 2011
Not everything can experience the stunning success of Albion.

Drakkus
May 14, 2002

yum~

Elblanco posted:

I've watched crowfall a bit since 2015 and right now I'm shopping around for a B2P mmo to mess around with. Would this be worth it right now? Like is there stuff to do if I just grab the $50 bundle, or would I be just sitting in my own little kingdom farming all day? I love the idea of this game, just want to make sure I can actually have fun with it as it is.

It's basically a skeleton structure of what the final game will be. You can log in and do something vaguely similarly approaching what the final game loop will be, minus a ton of polish and ancillary features still to come.

I've put maybe half a dozen hours into the current (4.5 afaik) patch, and it's alright, but it's far from a complete game. If you were to play the game right now, you'd be spending a while running around the campaign farming materials and mobs to gear up, then possibly go fight for keeps (that mean nothing right now) if you can actually find other players.

It's interesting to see it from a test perspective but I wouldn't play it as a primary game.

Turd Herder
May 21, 2008

BALLCOCK BALLCOCK BALLCOCK BALLCOCK

Orv posted:

Not everything can experience the stunning success of Albion.


Wait are you serious? I thought player base dropped off pretty quickly in that game.

Orv
May 4, 2011

Turd Herder posted:

Wait are you serious? I thought player base dropped off pretty quickly in that game.

loving what.

BadLlama
Jan 13, 2006

Turd Herder posted:

Wait are you serious? I thought player base dropped off pretty quickly in that game.

:thejoke:

malhavok
Jan 18, 2013
Also surprising absolutely no one this game is not going to launch this year as per their recent news. The positive side of this is that it means they are not desperate for more money.

Zaodai
May 23, 2009

Death before dishonor?
Your terms are accepted.


Strangely they're mostly saying the right things. I don't know that it makes it any more likely that it'll turn out to be a game, but at least they understand the meta-game of trying to sound competent while they work? Could be worse.

malhavok
Jan 18, 2013
It's not just saying the right things, I can login into the game and see that things are progressing and improving at a decent pace. I can see the game that they plan becoming clearer every patch.

Turd Herder
May 21, 2008

BALLCOCK BALLCOCK BALLCOCK BALLCOCK

Orv posted:

loving what.

I played with some of the goons and watched as numbers dropped on the servers. I figured it was a trend after launch. I didnt know the game took off.

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DancingShade
Jul 26, 2007

by Fluffdaddy

Turd Herder posted:

I played with some of the goons and watched as numbers dropped on the servers.

Honestly you could be talking about any game with goons in it. They're migratory.

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