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I'm sure the IDF are capable of restraint
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May 15, 2018 11:53
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XMNN posted:I'm sure the IDF are capable of restraint As an organization, maybe. The individuals in it? I'd say 50/50 at best.
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May 15, 2018 11:58
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XMNN posted:I'm sure the IDF are capable of restraint For example, they might ziptie someone to the front of one of their vehicles.
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May 15, 2018 12:00
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Miftan posted:As an organization, maybe. The individuals in it? I'd say 50/50 at best. I'm curious, did you do time with the IDF before you moved to the UK?
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May 15, 2018 12:04
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forkboy84 posted:I'm curious, did you do time with the IDF before you moved to the UK? Pretty sure he’s said he did, yeah.
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May 15, 2018 12:09
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forkboy84 posted:I'm curious, did you do time with the IDF before you moved to the UK? Yeah, did a full 3 years.
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May 15, 2018 12:11
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Of Israel and Palestine, 2018: Gazan into the abyss
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May 15, 2018 12:21
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Miftan posted:Yeah, did a full 3 years. See much of this? Prester Jane posted:So long time ago I happened to have occasion to have an extended conversation with an Israeli who had formerly been in the IDF. She was a very well spoken and attractive lady of about 25 or so, and shared some amusing anecdotes about her time in the service. I forget what exactly in the conversation promoted this comment, but the last thing she said to me was basically "Yeah so one time I called in an artillery strike wrong and wound up killing an entire Palistinian family. Whoops". She had put her hand over her mouth as if she was mock sharing a secret with me, and giggled the entire time she said it.
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May 15, 2018 12:24
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Gonzo McFee posted:See much of this? Remember that these are all 18-21 year old kids. They don't know poo poo about poo poo. In addition to that, Israeli indoctrination is pretty hardcore and most of the country is right wing/nationalist. I had a guy laugh and be proud of hitting a Palestinian protester in the head with a gas canister. We don't know what happened to him. I'm not gonna lie, I was a pretty lovely person when I was there as well. It's a massively ingrained cultural thing outside the IDF, and it's worse inside. It's dripped into you from day 1 that these people (lol, people) are a threat to your life if you get close to them. If you're not gonna get sucked into that culture while you're there, you're probably not in a combat role or refused to serve anyway.
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May 15, 2018 12:29
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Ah ok, I guess slaughtering families is ok cause the murderers ‘are 18-21 year old kids’ 
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May 15, 2018 13:03
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A Typical Goon posted:Ah ok, I guess slaughtering families is ok cause the murderers ‘are 18-21 year old kids’ I'm not excusing it, I'm giving you background on why it's happening. Those things aren't mutually exclusive, and I'm sorry if it came off that way. This isn't the easiest thing in the world to talk about for me because it means I have to own up to being complicit in that poo poo.
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May 15, 2018 13:07
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Miftan posted:I'm not excusing it, I'm giving you background on why it's happening. Those things aren't mutually exclusive, and I'm sorry if it came off that way. This isn't the easiest thing in the world to talk about for me because it means I have to own up to being complicit in that poo poo. It really didn't come off that way, that poster is reaching.
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May 15, 2018 13:17
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Illuyankas posted:Of Israel and Palestine, 2018: Gazan into the abyss
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May 15, 2018 14:15
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hell I'm glad israel executed 50 people. that's loving cool as hell
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May 15, 2018 14:17
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it's all very quiet today, are the protests still going on? hopefully the IDF have actually decided to exercise some restraint
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May 15, 2018 14:21
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XMNN posted:it's all very quiet today, are the protests still going on? hopefully the IDF have actually decided to exercise some restraint Does it matter at this point? The monstrous act they wanted to do has been done. They got away with it again. Job done both practically and symbolically.
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May 15, 2018 14:23
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Yeah, it really paints plain that inthe eyes of the world, the life of the Palestinian is utterly disposable. There will probably be no serious repercussions for Israel to face for shooting over a thousand unarmed people.
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May 15, 2018 14:27
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Turkey expelled the Israeli ambassador today. Ynet is reporting that there are sporadic protests all over the west bank and that there are 400 protesters near the gaza fence, no casualties reported so far today - https://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-5261314,00.html
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May 15, 2018 14:31
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Gonzo McFee posted:See much of this? I know PJ is a loving moron but you'd figure at least they would know what gallows humor is. People rationalize tragedy in hosed up ways, because people aren't beep boop computers. Welcome to humanity and hope this helps. If that upsets you make sure you never talk to surgeons lol they make those sorts of jokes all the time
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May 15, 2018 14:44
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This probably explains why today’s so quiet - Hamas have been trying to crack down. Not a huge surprise - sounds like Gazan medical facilities have basically collapsed already, so God alone knows what another wave of casualties of the same scale would do. https://twitter.com/asafronel/status/996326590849175553?s=21 https://twitter.com/feraskilanibbc/status/996327093255442432?s=21
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May 15, 2018 14:44
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tsa posted:I know PJ is a loving moron but you'd figure at least they would know what gallows humor is. People rationalize tragedy in hosed up ways, because people aren't beep boop computers. Welcome to humanity and hope this helps. Can’t think of many surgeons who crack jokes about the time they accidentally massacred a loving family. And it’s real classy of you to assume you know better about what tone she was using than the person who was actually there during that conversation.
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May 15, 2018 14:49
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lollontee posted:Doing something that matters, and volunteering for Betselem does, will make you less depressed. You made the right choice. Thank you, I needed that. I'm now waiting for Betselem to call me back, it sounded as though they have many people wishing to volunteer at the moment.
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May 15, 2018 14:56
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Horrible Lurkbeast posted:Thank you, I needed that. You can easily find many of their executives on facebook and attempt to contact them directly. Though TBH it's important to remember most of the actual groundwork in Btselem is done by palestinians so Israeli volunteers mostly do office work, if you want to actually get your hands dirty Machsum Watch and Taayush probably always look for volunteers.
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May 15, 2018 14:59
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Al Jazeera was showing the emergency meeting of the UN Security council regarding the protests. The Israeli ambassador was spouting some ghoulish poo poo.
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May 15, 2018 14:59
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Horrible Lurkbeast posted:Thank you, I needed that. Ya'll goy lots to do as well, for thousands of even better reasons. Good luck, and try to not get shot by a high-powered military sniper rifle being wielded by sudo-fascist murderer!
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May 15, 2018 15:09
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tsa posted:I know PJ is a loving moron but you'd figure at least they would know what gallows humor is. People rationalize tragedy in hosed up ways, because people aren't beep boop computers. Welcome to humanity and hope this helps. "Can't you take a joke?" Isn't an acceptable defence of slaughtering a family. Also lol yes let's compare the loving IDF killing kids and laughing to surgeons coping with failed surgery.
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May 15, 2018 15:28
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The argument that all of the killing is due to some 18-20 year olds rather than the IDF as a whole still implies that there are no martial-judicial consequences for indiscriminate murder of unarmed protesters which is just as bad and maybe even worse.
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May 15, 2018 15:35
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well the soldier who was filmed straight up executing a bound man, remember him? he was recently released after serving 9 out of his sentenced 12 months. I feel certain that no sniper will even spend a day in court.
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May 15, 2018 15:45
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Horrible Lurkbeast posted:well the soldier who was filmed straight up executing a bound man, remember him? There is no chance these murderers will be reprimanded in any way for sure.
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May 15, 2018 15:53
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Miftan posted:Yeah fine, but even according to the video that's not necessarily sniper fire, and we don't know who's doing it. Again, it probably is, but that video is crap for 'proof'. You'd be very hard pressed to have any sort of evidence of sniper fire on video though. Also these 'elite snipers' are 20 year olds who have had about a year of training at best, and maaaaaybe 6 months of that is with sniper rifles. What do you mean, "we don't know who's doing it"? The IDF are the only people shooting at anyone on the Gaza border. Do you think the video was staged by Hamas to make Israel look bad, or something? As for the "snipers" thing, I'm pretty sure snipers are doing most of the actual shooting on the border, as that's how live ammo fits into the IDF's current protest control (and PR) tactics. But even if it isn't, it's not like it's actually any better if it was a non-sniper shooting at an unarmed journalist who was clearly just standing around.
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May 15, 2018 16:06
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https://twitter.com/adamjohnsonNYC/status/996407523501584384
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May 15, 2018 16:17
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Main Paineframe posted:What do you mean, "we don't know who's doing it"? The IDF are the only people shooting at anyone on the Gaza border. Do you think the video was staged by Hamas to make Israel look bad, or something? No, what I mean is that I can't tell that it's gunfire based on the video, so I don't know who is behind whatever it is. Again, you can corroborate that with people who were there, but the video itself isn't enough for anything. For the record, I believe it is sniper fire. I'm not gonna argue semantics of what a sniper is because I think you're right, it doesn't matter.
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May 15, 2018 17:10
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Nebalebadingdong posted:You're talking about prejudice. This is where a good definition of racism/antisemitism is extremely useful. Racism/antisemitism require institutional support. Black people can be prejudiced against whites, but cannot be racist against them. Antisemitism from Palestinians against Israelis doesn't have institutional support, though. Within the specific context of Israel/Palestine relations, antisemitism isn't the form of racism that is backed by greater society and the government. tsa posted:I know PJ is a loving moron but you'd figure at least they would know what gallows humor is. People rationalize tragedy in hosed up ways, because people aren't beep boop computers. Welcome to humanity and hope this helps. A surgeon making a mistake during surgery and the soldier of an occupying military calling in an artillery strike against an innocent family - basically the same thing! Heck, for all we know even Hitler himself was secretly internally regretful and dealing with the trauma of his actions killing millions of people. Since you can't literally read minds, everything can be excused, even people joking about murder! Ytlaya fucked around with this message at 17:21 on May 15, 2018 |
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May 15, 2018 17:14
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People say that Israel is trying to goad Hamas into rocket attacks so that Bibi can start another war...but I wouldn’t call a ‘war’ a conflict in which one side with modern military equipment and airplanes bombs a bunch of people with rocks in a giant prison
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May 15, 2018 17:20
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Ytlaya posted:Antisemitism from Palestinians against Israelis doesn't have institutional support, though. Within the specific context of Israel/Palestine relations, antisemitism isn't the form of racism that is backed by greater society and the government. Right, I wasn't disagreeing
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May 15, 2018 17:40
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Regarde Aduck posted:Does it matter at this point? The monstrous act they wanted to do has been done. They got away with it again. Job done both practically and symbolically. It's probably a good thing they haven't massacred a bunch of protesters again? It sounds like that's mostly because there are fewer protesters to massacre, though Darth Walrus posted:This probably explains why today’s so quiet - Hamas have been trying to crack down. Not a huge surprise - sounds like Gazan medical facilities have basically collapsed already, so God alone knows what another wave of casualties of the same scale would do. he also confirmed that the IDF seem to be aiming for people's legs and are using a lot of live ammunition also apparently they pretty much have no access to even basic medical supplies like antibiotics
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May 15, 2018 17:57
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Miftan posted:Remember that these are all 18-21 year old kids. They don't know poo poo about poo poo. In addition to that, Israeli indoctrination is pretty hardcore and most of the country is right wing/nationalist. I had a guy laugh and be proud of hitting a Palestinian protester in the head with a gas canister. We don't know what happened to him. I'm not gonna lie, I was a pretty lovely person when I was there as well. It's a massively ingrained cultural thing outside the IDF, and it's worse inside. It's dripped into you from day 1 that these people (lol, people) are a threat to your life if you get close to them. If you're not gonna get sucked into that culture while you're there, you're probably not in a combat role or refused to serve anyway. Maybe this isn't the thread for it, and I'm happy to take it to PMs (if you got 'em!), but have you heard of 'Breaking the Silence' and what do you think of their efforts?
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May 15, 2018 18:08
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So. What's the final casualty toll? How many dead, children, medics, martyrs without weapons? How many of the wounded by fascist gunshots?
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May 15, 2018 18:12
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gently caress the us, and gently caress Nikki Haley https://twitter.com/eugenegu/status/996410679878828034
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May 15, 2018 18:18
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lollontee posted:So. What's the final casualty toll? How many dead, children, medics, martyrs without weapons? How many of the wounded by fascist gunshots? You won't get that until everyone us out of critical condition. And since over 2000 were injured...
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May 15, 2018 18:21
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