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phasmid posted:They call their religion the "Shariat". However their leader has a Welsh name. Sure, it's derived from an Arabic word, but so is half of Zensunni and it doesn't resemble Sunni Islam much, or denote that its adherents are Arabs. Given the extreme degree to which religions and languages in the Dune have intermixed and evolved, I doubt that their beliefs have anything in common with Islam, and they certainly don't come off as culturally Arab (though it's been a while since I read the books).
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May 15, 2018 00:07
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Communist Walrus posted:Sure, it's derived from an Arabic word, but so is half of Zensunni and it doesn't resemble Sunni Islam much, or denote that its adherents are Arabs. Given the extreme degree to which religions and languages in the Dune have intermixed and evolved, I doubt that their beliefs have anything in common with Islam, and they certainly don't come off as culturally Arab (though it's been a while since I read the books). I didn't mean to imply that. Sorry if it seemed like a broad stroke. The time I referred to was long after Leto II, which they called the Prophet so yeah. Their culture seemed more like a technocracy based around genetic monopoly.
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May 15, 2018 00:20
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I reread the original not too long ago and they have a whole section in the appendices about how during or right after jihad an ecclesiastical council formed where they ironed out a new religion comprimised of all the others and put all the teachings together calling it the oc bible etc and having to put the hurtin on a few groups who didnt take well to it
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May 15, 2018 00:32
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Here we go found the section on OC bible creationquote:
It goes on to the reaction but im phoneposting and probably loving something up. Think i was off on timeframe as well. I think this is post jihad by quite awhile
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May 15, 2018 00:44
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Regarding the Jihad and as others have said here; yeah. I do not understand how anyone can read Herbert's work and get the idea that it's a robot uprising or man vs machine conflict. It's a neo-luddite uprising. The Jihad wasn't humans fighting against robots in an existential war, it was humans with technology fighting against humans without technology in a vicious ideological conflict. Sure; there may have been AI (given the prohibition on it, seems more likely than not) but they were not the enemies. Like everything else in Dune, no matter how strange the circumstances, the Jihad was ultimately a very human conflict about human concerns and issues. "Have we diminished ourselves in our pursuit of technology?" not "Will Lord Cyber T-Rex 9000 destroy us all?"
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May 15, 2018 00:46
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RoboChrist 9000 posted:Regarding the Jihad and as others have said here; yeah. I do not understand how anyone can read Herbert's work and get the idea that it's a robot uprising or man vs machine conflict. It's a neo-luddite uprising. The Jihad wasn't humans fighting against robots in an existential war, it was humans with technology fighting against humans without technology in a vicious ideological conflict. Sure; there may have been AI (given the prohibition on it, seems more likely than not) but they were not the enemies. Like everything else in Dune, no matter how strange the circumstances, the Jihad was ultimately a very human conflict about human concerns and issues. "Have we diminished ourselves in our pursuit of technology?" not "Will Lord Cyber T-Rex 9000 destroy us all?" I'm a human and I would be concerned about, and have issues with Lord Cyber T-Rex 9000 destroying me  And I don't remember the Tielaxu semen pond? (Also I always found it interesting how Scytale apparently somehow ranked up/transformed into a Master, and that the rest of the Masters were cool with him even though he (under orders) almost murdered their Messiah as a newborn baby.) Liquid Dinosaur fucked around with this message at 00:58 on May 15, 2018 |
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May 15, 2018 00:51
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Liquid Dinosaur posted:And I don't remember the Tielaxu semen pond? It's only a snippet at the beginning of Heretics. They're talking about foreign pollution and how Tleilaxu masters can't breed with them except under direct handling. I think it's implied that Scytale is promoted for his handling of the Messiah affair. They bring him back as a ghola and his reward for discovering (along with the dwarf) that memories can be implanted is that he rose from the ranks of their slaves into the ruling class. Just my personal take, tho.
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May 15, 2018 01:09
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phasmid posted:It's only a snippet at the beginning of Heretics. They're talking about foreign pollution and how Tleilaxu masters can't breed with them except under direct handling. I completely forgot about the midget who's been mentally conditioned to only speak in riddles and poems. Edit: Who was actually one of their society's rulers.
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May 15, 2018 01:16
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And he is some sort of Kwizatz Haderach too because he is invisible to prescience Edit: where was he shown to be a leader? He was a ghola, born just before
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May 15, 2018 01:18
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phasmid posted:Don't forget that the latterday Tleilaxu also swim in a big pond full of semen and jack off together. The Tleilaxu were just weird and gross overall. Nobody liked them and there are suggestions that the only reason they got tolerated at all was because they were useful. Everybody had at least some vague idea of what weird shenanigans they got up to behind the scenes but overall just wanted them to sell their wares and otherwise go the gently caress away.
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May 15, 2018 01:25
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ToxicSlurpee posted:The Tleilaxu were just weird and gross overall. Nobody liked them and there are suggestions that the only reason they got tolerated at all was because they were useful. Everybody had at least some vague idea of what weird shenanigans they got up to behind the scenes but overall just wanted them to sell their wares and otherwise go the gently caress away. They wouldn't have it any other way. Much like ol Vladdy B they were putting on an act to make people underestimate them.
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May 15, 2018 01:35
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Lathespin.gif posted:read the entire thread, didn't see this posted yet: its gonna take a lot to take me away from dunnnneee theres nothing that 100 fremen or more can ever do
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May 15, 2018 02:01
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phasmid posted:Don't forget that the latterday Tleilaxu also swim in a big pond full of semen and jack off together. Sounds like a Sandals resort heyoooo
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May 15, 2018 02:23
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exmachina posted:And he is some sort of Kwizatz Haderach too because he is invisible to prescience I meant how he was a Master. I guess not every Master is necessarily an executive. I mean, their society is apparently nothing but shapeshifters and creepy midget boss-men (the tanks don't really count...). dis astranagant posted:They wouldn't have it any other way. Much like ol Vladdy B they were putting on an act to make people underestimate them. Being extremely morbidly obese to obfuscate your competence and as a form of visual trolling to gross out your enemies is a A+ statesmanship tactic.
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May 15, 2018 02:52
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being extremely obese and immobile to own the lands
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May 15, 2018 03:14
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Joke's on you guys, I only weigh 500 pounds ironically
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May 15, 2018 03:21
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Liquid Dinosaur posted:I meant how he was a Master. I guess not every Master is necessarily an executive. I mean, their society is apparently nothing but shapeshifters and creepy midget boss-men (the tanks don't really count...). Whoops I thought you meant Bijaz, not Waff. E: whoops Batiz is the little melon, lol exmachina fucked around with this message at 07:41 on May 15, 2018 |
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May 15, 2018 03:43
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Liquid Dinosaur posted:I meant how he was a Master. I guess not every Master is necessarily an executive. I mean, their society is apparently nothing but shapeshifters and creepy midget boss-men (the tanks don't really count...). Liquid Dinosaur posted:I'd unironically like a chairdog, though. Herr Bazooka fucked around with this message at 03:54 on May 15, 2018 |
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May 15, 2018 03:46
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exmachina posted:Whoops I thought you meant Batiz, not Waff. No I meant Bijaz, not Waff. Waff is explicitly one of their rulers. Bijaz is the weird rhyming midget in Dune Messiah who I thought was just a weird midget clone who came out of the same horrible vagina-vat as Duncan #2, but wikipedia and innocuous captions on the wiki say he's a master? I'd assumed that was stated, but it's probably people reaching. My bad.
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May 15, 2018 03:48
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Liquid Dinosaur posted:I completely forgot about the midget who's been mentally conditioned to only speak in riddles and poems. FH doesn't bring the dwarf back, just Scytale. The dwarf just gets sliced by Idaho. He's named Bijaz, which I always read as Bitchass. Haha. ToxicSlurpee posted:The Tleilaxu were just weird and gross overall. Nobody liked them and there are suggestions that the only reason they got tolerated at all was because they were useful. Everybody had at least some vague idea of what weird shenanigans they got up to behind the scenes but overall just wanted them to sell their wares and otherwise go the gently caress away. They got worse and worse as the timeline went on. Leto only hated them less than the Bene Gesserit because they were self-destructive and the BG weren't. Like, he didn't need to do anything except cow them now and then but the Sisterhood was a continual threat. The audience between the BG and Leto in book 4 is great and it reveals a big part of their relationship wrt the Atreides. priznat posted:Sounds like a Sandals resort heyoooo
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May 15, 2018 03:51
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Abupkis... Deserted planet
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May 15, 2018 03:52
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sebmojo posted:Abupkis... Deserted planet Where's my doctor?!
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May 15, 2018 03:58
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Arruckus - a very noisy planet.
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May 15, 2018 04:16
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Liquid Dinosaur posted:I meant how he was a Master. I guess not every Master is necessarily an executive. I mean, their society is apparently nothing but shapeshifters and creepy midget boss-men (the tanks don't really count...). Masheikh are the ruling council, Master might just be some dude with a handful of Facedancer slaves. Masheikh also happens to be an alternate spelling of a class of Islamic legal scholar, hence their occasional references to "the legalists of the Shariat".
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May 15, 2018 04:27
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Liquid Dinosaur posted:No I meant Bijaz, not Waff. Waff is explicitly one of their rulers. Bijaz is the weird rhyming midget in Dune Messiah who I thought was just a weird midget clone who came out of the same horrible vagina-vat as Duncan #2, but wikipedia and innocuous captions on the wiki say he's a master? I'd assumed that was stated, but it's probably people reaching. I think Wikipedia may be infected with the taint of Brian Herbert and KJA’s books, but the last time I sat down and read the whole series was like 14 years and 7 concussions ago.
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May 15, 2018 05:40
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Wikipedia posts Brian/Kevin poo poo as Canon, yeah. In Chapterhouse Dune Scytale lists the Tleliax he has genetic info for. Up to GEoD in my re-read
exmachina fucked around with this message at 07:44 on May 15, 2018 |
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May 15, 2018 07:40
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Ah poo poo, wish that tooth would have killed the fat man
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May 15, 2018 12:11
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henpod posted:Ah poo poo, wish that tooth would have killed the fat man Leto didn’t remember the tooth hard enough 
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May 15, 2018 12:42
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phasmid posted:The audience between the BG and Leto in book 4 is great and it reveals a big part of their relationship wrt the Atreides. “Where did you get the spice-essence?” Leto asked. “We bought it from smugglers,” Anteac said. “There’ve been no smugglers for almost twenty-five hundred years.” “Waste not, want not,” Anteac said. Fuckin lol
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May 15, 2018 12:43
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Wait, how do they get spice essence in the first place? The "spice essence" you need to become a Reverend Mother isn't just spice; it's ambergris from a dying baby sandworm. That seems a lot harder to get your hands on than just getting some spice.
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May 15, 2018 14:09
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Liquid Dinosaur posted:Wait, how do they get spice essence in the first place? The "spice essence" you need to become a Reverend Mother isn't just spice; it's ambergris from a dying baby sandworm. That seems a lot harder to get your hands on than just getting some spice. Smugglers? Maybe bought from fremen. Bene Gesserit bought it from smugglers 2500 years ago and kept it.
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May 15, 2018 14:19
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I always took tleilaxu to be the Mysterious East Asian stereotype magnified to a planetwide society.
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May 15, 2018 18:23
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basic hitler posted:I always took tleilaxu to be the Mysterious East Asian stereotype magnified to a planetwide society. Well, I mean, if you want to draw real-world parallels, the Axlotl Tanks and presumably the name 'Tleilaxu' itself are meant to evoke Meso-American languages. Axolotls are real things, after all. Honestly, though, I kind of feel like the Tleilaxu probably represent the machine thinking of the enemies in the Jihad but from the other end. Horseshoe theory, kinda. Rather than cultivating and perfecting humans the way the BG, Mentats, Fremen, and other factions of Dune do, the Tleilaxu sort of reduce humans to something less than the sum of their parts; genes and parts to be used and re-used. They're Ix but dealing in meat rather than metal.
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May 15, 2018 20:35
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I feel like the tleilaxu were more mad scientists than anything. They didn't have a specific cultural flavor they were just biological science taken to creepy and weird extremes.
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May 15, 2018 20:52
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My perspecrive comes from the choices of the narrator for heretics, who portrays them in an east asian accent. It kinda works though
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May 15, 2018 21:12
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I hate sand, Chani
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May 15, 2018 21:36
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basic hitler posted:My perspecrive comes from the choices of the narrator for heretics, who portrays them in an east asian accent. It kinda works though I haven't heard any of the audiobooks but, in my head, Scytale sounds exactly like Wallace Shawn.
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May 15, 2018 21:44
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from my point of view the Tleilax are evil
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May 15, 2018 22:24
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The tleilaxu are some of the most legitimate bad people after the harkonnens cease to exist
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May 15, 2018 23:20
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don't forget i'm the copyright holder. i really insist that you know https://twitter.com/DuneAuthor/status/996510938206384128 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cshxBILvmHQ&t=9s BrutalistMcDonalds fucked around with this message at 23:24 on May 15, 2018 |
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May 15, 2018 23:22
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