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Strobe posted:You reroll before modifiers are applied. If you have a "reroll failed hits" ability and your normal to-hit is a 3+, you can reroll 1s and 2s but if you roll a 3 it's stuck (and then misses). To add to this, if you have a "reroll 1s" then you only ever reroll the 1s, a 2 with a - 1 modifier still doesn't get rerolled.
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May 16, 2018 05:21
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mango sentinel posted:I'm putting base coats on my first Drukari stuff and this Venom just called me "boy" I don't get the reference but good job on assembling and painting models! Looking good you productive dynamo!!!
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May 16, 2018 05:32
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Artum posted:My guys are squads of 5 at ld9, if they're next to my banner or my chaplain they become ld10 and literally cant fail and the only way they can fail otherwise is by losing 4 men in a single turn without just being wiped out and rolling two 6s in a row, this has happened literally once in the space of like 10 months. Sadly codex Marines are in a real rough spot. You really got to pull out all the stops to have a chance against a standard Dark Eldar list. I find it kind of annoying because there is such a disparity in power in each codex that it’s really hard to have a just fun dice rolling game.
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May 16, 2018 05:53
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TheBigAristotle posted:Am I wrong to think a unit of 5 Deathwatch Reivers with carbines would be really good? Special ammo, grapnels, just have them hauling rear end around the map causing trouble Yeah, the special ammo is really awesome. I was debating if they'd be even nastier if you created an Intercessor squad with 4 Reivers and an Inceptor. Never get stuck in combat, move everywhere, it'd be pretty awesome. Or an Aggressor for all the advancing and shooting you could ask for. Or both!
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May 16, 2018 06:02
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Annoyingly enough, I think only the Reiver with the grappling hook gets to ignore height, not the whole unit. I would prefer whole unit buffs, even if they weren't as good as normal reivers/aggressors/inceptors etc. "When MODELS with the grapnel launcher move"
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May 16, 2018 06:18
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xutech posted:Annoyingly enough, I think only the Reiver with the grappling hook gets to ignore height, not the whole unit. I would prefer whole unit buffs, even if they weren't as good as normal reivers/aggressors/inceptors etc. That's why you pair them with an Inceptor, or add an Aggressor and don't bother with the hook.
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May 16, 2018 06:28
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Someone gave me a box of 3rd edition minis recently, the Dark Eldar versus Space Marines set. There's no problem painting and playing those in 8th edition, right?
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May 16, 2018 06:29
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Uroboros posted:Sadly codex Marines are in a real rough spot. You really got to pull out all the stops to have a chance against a standard Dark Eldar list. I find it kind of annoying because there is such a disparity in power in each codex that it’s really hard to have a just fun dice rolling game. Tbh it's really just the MEQ statline, which GW overvalues (hence Chaos still being the best book, as long as you ignore the fact there's no actual Chaos Marines on the table). Imperial Marines suck because of it. DE will always be tough for them since DE strengths hit all Marine weaknesses at once, but it's made a lot harder by how poor the book is to begin with. You basically have a tier list at this point of like: Grey Knights/Genestealer Cult < Space Marines < pure non-codex Marines < everything else
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May 16, 2018 06:43
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Uroboros posted:Sadly codex Marines are in a real rough spot. You really got to pull out all the stops to have a chance against a standard Dark Eldar list. I find it kind of annoying because there is such a disparity in power in each codex that it’s really hard to have a just fun dice rolling game. This has always been the case for 40k, it’s just the first time in 30 years that space marines happen to be on the short end of the stick.
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May 16, 2018 07:26
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JIZZ DENOUEMENT posted:I don't get the reference but good job on assembling and painting models! Looking good you productive dynamo!!! It's a reference to the new God of War. I like the Flayed Skull paint scheme and realized as I started painting red that it looks like Kratos. Thanks for the vote of confidence. I've been real slow on hobby lately and am trying to turn that around Chainclaw posted:Someone gave me a box of 3rd edition minis recently, the Dark Eldar versus Space Marines set. There's no problem painting and playing those in 8th edition, right? Sell me the Dracon model. Those are super old models but you can play them all the same. YMMV on the older ranges but Wyches aside, retro Dark Eldar are incredibly rad and interesting.
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May 16, 2018 07:35
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tallkidwithglasses posted:This has always been the case for 40k, it’s just the first time in 30 years that space marines happen to be on the short end of the stick.  Chaos marines were crazy good in 3.5 and had fallen off a cliff by the time 5th rolled around. This sort of ebb and flow is just how it rolls. Then we have Orks, Necrons and Tyranids who have gone through all kinds of extremes.
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May 16, 2018 09:08
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A quick question, is the LGT worth attending as a spectator? I'm in London with some free time on Saturday, and I see there's still general admission tickets available for a tenner. Are the plenty of traders and other interesting things to see, or is it mostly just the gaming halls?
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May 16, 2018 09:28
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DancingShade posted:
Chaos was one of the strongest competitive armies through early 5th and only really limped off the scene when the mech-heavy meta formed and double Lash stopped being able to compete - so basically after Guard appeared. Meanwhile vanilla Space Marines have almost never been good - there was a brief flourishing in early 5th when they were the only modern codex with 5th ed style transport costs, and las/plas spam before that, but they've basically always been second tier behind Eldar (the perennial top tier army, with a brief dip in 5th because their codex was outdated for the whole edition) and then some mix of the non-codex Marine books, Chaos, and whatever xenos book Phil Kelly wrote last. And briefly Guard when they dropped with the exact correct mix of stuff to excel in 5th.
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May 16, 2018 09:32
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Uroboros posted:Sadly codex Marines are in a real rough spot. You really got to pull out all the stops to have a chance against a standard Dark Eldar list. I find it kind of annoying because there is such a disparity in power in each codex that it’s really hard to have a just fun dice rolling game. It really really really shows that they're the first codex now that every new one is coming out with masses of useful stratagems and we've got 3 pages with less than a page of actually usable ones. If they're keeping with the legion style squads then hopefully we get autocannon squads at some point because paying a premium for hellblasters ap4 plasma in a game where loads of things either have an invulnerable save slightly worse than their armour or have ways of getting -1 to hit is frustrating to say the least.
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May 16, 2018 10:13
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I’d say it was worth it if 8th was truly superior to 7th, but I’m fully convinced it isn’t at this point. The terrain, movement, and shooting rules are all worse.
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May 16, 2018 12:11
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It wouldn't be so bad if rerolls occurred after modifiers, or plasma always did a mortal wound instead of killed the model, or if it only overheated on a natural one, but it seems like SM and their stuff were designed for a different game. Unfortunately it's even worse for Primaris only forces. GW won't even acknowledge that a lot of people would really like a Primaris codex, or at least some more options.
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May 16, 2018 12:19
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Beer4TheBeerGod posted:but it seems like SM and their stuff were designed for a different game. I wouldn't be surprised if this is somewhat true. Marines tend to suffer from being the 1st codex out of the gate for most editions.
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May 16, 2018 12:26
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Beer4TheBeerGod posted:It wouldn't be so bad if rerolls occurred after modifiers, or plasma always did a mortal wound instead of killed the model, or if it only overheated on a natural one, but it seems like SM and their stuff were designed for a different game. Don't worry. Once the shorty marines get squatted every marine codex will be a Primaris codex. It'll be a gradual process but it'll happen. Chaos versions will be some vaguely faux-Latin sounding hell or demon prefix version.
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May 16, 2018 12:37
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Space wolf primaris kits when? These plastic wolves kits have hips up to their nipples.
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May 16, 2018 12:39
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JBP posted:Space wolf primaris kits when? These plastic wolves kits have hips up to their nipples. They're still working on the plastic molds for power armored fur suits with the appropriate amount of fuzz.
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May 16, 2018 12:40
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DancingShade posted:They're still working on the plastic molds for power armored fur suits with the appropriate amount of fuzz. What a time to be alive.
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May 16, 2018 12:42
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JBP posted:Space wolf primaris kits when? These plastic wolves kits have hips up to their nipples. In lieu of primaris, space doge are going to get a 40k werewolf leman russ and new wolfen units. *wet leopard growl*
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May 16, 2018 12:43
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Instead of painfully applying battle transfers you'll have to painfully apply tiny googly eyes to the helmets of your fur suited Primaris yiff squads. The person who originally envisioned them as Space Vikings will be found 3 days after they've hung themselves from a ceiling rafter.
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May 16, 2018 12:46
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Chiwie posted:I wouldn't be surprised if this is somewhat true. Marines tend to suffer from being the 1st codex out of the gate for most editions. Exactly. It's a shame because they're the most iconic army of 40K, but because that happens they're always the baseline. By releasing SM first you end up creating a baseline for all the other armies, but 40K is not easy to balance. Instead of armies that are better than SM at one thing and worse at another, you get armies that are better than SM at one thing and where the weaknesses can be mitigated through focusing on the best units or exploiting stratagems and synergies. It's always been this way, and while it would be nice if GW addressed it that would take away development time from unreleased army books and new units. So that's not likely.
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May 16, 2018 12:51
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The primary anti-tank ranged unit for Space Marine: Space Wolfen codex will be a squat with a rocket launcher being given a piggyback ride by a disgruntled werewolf (This will be after they resettle on the hidden squat homeworld)
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May 16, 2018 12:54
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I think the yearly points update is the best thing about 8th. Even if they are not able to change the rules on the problem units, they at least have a tool to balance them in some way. Even the most broken stuff is fine as long as the points account for it.
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May 16, 2018 12:56
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Beer4TheBeerGod posted:Exactly. It's a shame because they're the most iconic army of 40K, but because that happens they're always the baseline. By releasing SM first you end up creating a baseline for all the other armies, but 40K is not easy to balance. Instead of armies that are better than SM at one thing and worse at another, you get armies that are better than SM at one thing and where the weaknesses can be mitigated through focusing on the best units or exploiting stratagems and synergies. It works better when everything is based around an easily quantifiable factor like a single troop baseline. Guardians vs tac marines, gaunts or similar. Problem is there are so many variables now with regards to special rules and bizarre (to me) army construction methods that I have no suggestions as to how to re-establish a balance baseline without stripping a ton of stuff out and doing a full reset like the launch index of 3.0. Which worked pretty well until about 2 codexes in when creep flipped the table again.
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May 16, 2018 12:58
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Have the age of sigmar guys write the next set of codexes so we get some really crazy army wide abilities
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May 16, 2018 13:01
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Uroboros posted:I’d say it was worth it if 8th was truly superior to 7th, but I’m fully convinced it isn’t at this point. The terrain, movement, and shooting rules are all worse. At least now that things are so stripped back theres plenty of design space to start adding things back in like they have with AoS.
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May 16, 2018 13:02
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It's just annoying to me because Space Marine troop choices are so aggressively poor, but the fluff is prescriptive about every army having a ton of the buggers. Marines seem like they got doubly screwed by the new AP rules. They lost out on having only the most nasty weapons affecting their armor when AP became a modifier and the bolter went from disregarding two of five potential armor scores to not affecting them at all. Maybe they gained something from the new edition, all the re-rolls come to mind, but their effectiveness against hordes and their durability took a massive hit.
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May 16, 2018 13:03
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Besides the obvious "released first" problem, I think the requirement of being generic jack-of-trades (both statistically and to accomodate custom chapters) naturally puts them at a disadvantage, because competitive play in any game or sport gravitates towards extreme specialization. Especially this edition where they're really overestimating the power of customizable utility units (see: Crisis Suits, tacmarines). This is why I feel marines would be best off with ultramarines getting flavorful gimmicks and reintroducing Chapter Approved style seasonal custom chapter rules (so that generic marines act more as building blocks than their own army). Making general-use strats good in games in general is difficult, let alone with 40k's number of factions, hundreds of models, and assload of customization. You could even explain UM's suddenly getting phalanx tactics and [more] roman frills with Gulliman taking hold of UM and pulling them away from rigid codex adherance. Neurolimal fucked around with this message at 13:06 on May 16, 2018 |
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May 16, 2018 13:04
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Eifert Posting posted:It's just annoying to me because Space Marine troop choices are so aggressively poor, but the fluff is prescriptive about every army having a ton of the buggers. That's a point value thing if something is under performing. Should be roughly on par with other options that cost the same. Marines themselves being the toughest individuals on the tables shouldn't be thought of as a thing anymore though. Not with Necrons and Custodes running around on an individual rifleman grunt basis.
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May 16, 2018 13:05
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Imagine if the new GW realised Vikings are cooler than wolves and renamed everything hard Viking themed and just fulcrum shifted puppies to Nazis.
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May 16, 2018 13:10
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Everyone knows dogs have a susceptibility to fascism.
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May 16, 2018 13:13
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I still remember the unanimous cacophony of groans from a past iteration of this thread when they unveiled the tiny marine with two lightning claws on a giant wolfbeast. Also the photoshops swapping their heads around.
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May 16, 2018 13:15
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Eifert Posting posted:Everyone knows dogs have a susceptibility to fascism.
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May 16, 2018 13:15
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Neurolimal posted:Besides the obvious "released first" problem, I think the requirement of being generic jack-of-trades (both statistically and to accomodate custom chapters) naturally puts them at a disadvantage, because competitive play in any game or sport gravitates towards extreme specialization. Especially this edition where they're really overestimating the power of customizable utility units (see: Crisis Suits, tacmarines). This is all loving nonsense. Marines need a points drop on the basic MEQ bodies and a rethink of their stratagems, nothing more.
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May 16, 2018 13:34
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Also make vindicators good again, cause it's the prettiest tank in 40k.
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May 16, 2018 13:36
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Would anyone happen to have a spare set of AdMech Arc Rifle and arm bits they’d be willing to part with? My 1500pt list is likely to have four MSUs with rifles for cheap filler and I only have three. PM me if you’d be interested in selling me your tiny plastic space gun.
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May 16, 2018 13:39
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Corrode posted:This is all loving nonsense. Marines need a points drop on the basic MEQ bodies and a rethink of their stratagems, nothing more. That would make them better for average play, but I'm not sure how you make generic marines worthwhile in competitive without them ending up doing another groups' job better.
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May 16, 2018 13:52
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