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The only thing I don't give jumpjets to are LRM boats. They're max range and need all the tonnage for ammo and heat sinks so they can fire 40-60 LRMs every round to make all mechs stumble.
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May 17, 2018 18:24
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Darkrenown posted:Is the Centurion too good, or the Cataphract bad (or is my build just trash)? The Cent and Cataphract are the same speed, but yea you're seeing just how efficient missile weapons are for damage per ton.
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May 17, 2018 18:26
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Endymion FRS MK1 posted:All of my mechs have jumpjets. No exceptions. I do fine without them on anything but a Scout. I'm generally running three Assault Mechs that'll be Bulwarked in a forest (or tornado, or water) for most of the fight. Why do I need to jump there? Just gimme one jumpy 'mech to get a Sensor Lock specialist close enough to do her job so that everyone else can snipe with PPCs/Gauss/ACs and/or rain LRM death on the hapless fools who approach me. One jump scout is all I need.
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May 17, 2018 18:28
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jng2058 posted:I do fine without them on anything but a Scout. I'm generally running three Assault Mechs that'll be Bulwarked in a forest (or tornado, or water) for most of the fight. Why do I need to jump there? Just gimme one jumpy 'mech to get a Sensor Lock specialist close enough to do her job so that everyone else can snipe with PPCs/Gauss/ACs and/or rain LRM death on the hapless fools who approach me. One jump scout is all I need. I got by just fine without the scout.
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May 17, 2018 18:35
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Never not have jumpjets. If you're not moving, you're dying. If not outright, then by attrition because your repair bills are waaaay higher if you're just standing there slugging it out. Jumpjets are especially great on Heavies and Assaults because that's the only way your 100 ton rear end is getting close to maxing out evasion.
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May 17, 2018 18:36
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Zore posted:Anyone else feel like Jumpjets are mostly worthless once you move into the Heavy+ stage of the game? I never used them on my Heavies or Assaults and never missed them at all, they seemed pointlessly heavy for a lovely movement effect. I don't use them on everything, but I have spawned on rocks I could not get off of without JJs, and I had a random mission with a base up on a mesa I could only reach with JJs, so I have been trying to phase them back into my designs.
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May 17, 2018 18:38
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Kurr de la Cruz posted:Never not have jumpjets. If you're not moving, you're dying. If not outright, then by attrition because your repair bills are waaaay higher if you're just standing there slugging it out. Jumpjets are especially great on Heavies and Assaults because that's the only way your 100 ton rear end is getting close to maxing out evasion. Do you not take Bulwark?
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May 17, 2018 18:38
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Kurr de la Cruz posted:Never not have jumpjets. If you're not moving, you're dying. If not outright, then by attrition because your repair bills are waaaay higher if you're just standing there slugging it out. Jumpjets are especially great on Heavies and Assaults because that's the only way your 100 ton rear end is getting close to maxing out evasion. Moving is counterproductive at Heavy+ since your range is lower and Bulwark means you are literally twice as durable if you stand still. Also evasion is foolish to rely on because enemies have enough shooting to counteract it and will be flinging enough weapons at you some will probably get through. And even then you're taking more damage on average than you would if you had Bulwark because 1) Evasion caps out where Bulwark starts 2) But it decays every time you get shot which means if 2+ mechs are shooting at a unit per turn the expected damage is higher against something with evasion pips than Bulwark 3) And even if it wasn't, spike damage is more powerful than sandpapering. Bulwarked mechs can survive even random headcap shots from anything bar an AC/20. Evasion mechs can't Also jumpjets generate a ton of heat and weigh a bunch so you don't hit as hard because you have/can fire fewer weapons. in conclusion, lol, evasion blooooows.
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May 17, 2018 18:44
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Conspiratiorist posted:Do you not take Bulwark? Bulwark still lets damage through
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May 17, 2018 18:45
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I'd rather take 50% damage, than have a 50% chance to take full damage.
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May 17, 2018 18:47
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Sandwich Anarchist posted:Bulwark still lets damage through About as much as evasion will on average. 50% damage reduction is in many ways better than 50% evasion too since any shots that get through evasion hit at full power while you're more likely to get them spread out and sandpapered with bulwark. Also evasion decays so that only applies against 1 enemy per turn. Against every subsequent enemy your expected damage rises. And it requires full evasion which means you're piloting a light (lol) or using a fuckton of heat on constantly jumping. Or sprinting and doing 0 damage.
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May 17, 2018 18:47
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Always take jump jets so you don't end up on a mountain you can't leave and lose by default
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May 17, 2018 18:50
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If you don't like JJ's I think it means you don't have a disco grasshopper and that makes me question if you're playing the game right.
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May 17, 2018 18:52
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NmareBfly posted:If you don't like JJ's I think it means you don't have a disco grasshopper and that makes me question if you're playing the game right. If I ever saw a Grasshopper in my 70 hours of play I would have one  That and Catapults literally never showed up for me.
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May 17, 2018 18:54
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Bulwark is boring sorry hth Just lol if you're not abusing the poo poo out of terrain and LOS at all times.
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May 17, 2018 18:54
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Zore posted:If I ever saw a Grasshopper in my 70 hours of play I would have one I need one more part for my missile boat and it's nowhere to be seen. poo poo loads of Orions though
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May 17, 2018 18:56
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Kurr de la Cruz posted:Bulwark is boring sorry hth Cool Its still many times more effective than trying to jump around like an idiot and lets you fight wherever you want instead of being stuck at the whims of terrain.
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May 17, 2018 18:56
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Alchenar posted:Well I'm running ideas off on the basis that the game is good and fun now, but could be much better if what we have now got a year of overhaul and polish and became Battletech 2. This has been discussed before, but smarter AI isn't necessarily good for a game. Chess AI is really strong, but they have to include "dumb" chess AI in commercial games or nobody would ever play them because you'd have to be Grand Master skill-level to have a shot at winning. The game AI needs to be good enough that it isn't punishing for players learning the game (like almost all those preview streamers) who don't know what they're doing. Having a difficulty slider or the like is tougher because it's not clear precisely how to increase difficulty. 8 mechs focusing fire can kill one of yours pretty easily, which would be really frustrating. The AI will target lock and engage outside your sighting range already, so having an AI that deliberately kites to do that for as long as possible wouldn't be fun for very many players. I suspect their better option would be to focus on something like a nemesis system, with tailored AI for a few specific "competing" merc groups or "elite" lances associated with the major powers, or even pirate bands. Named NPC pilots, non-standard mech loadouts, and maybe even special scenario chains that allow you to end the threat for good would extend the game and create new kinds of difficulty without necessarily alienating the casual gamers. If you want a real challenge 4v4, there's perfectly good multiplayer available.
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May 17, 2018 18:56
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I have the +100 View Range mod on my Royal Highlander and it is hilarious because sometimes its Gauss + PPC + LRMs is enough to kill smaller mechs that cant even see it. It also means I dont need to sensor lock because I can just plain see things that cant see me. So it hops around from cover to cover poppin' things from afar while the rest of my lance of LRM 40 Orions rain hell on my enemies. Its unfair.
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May 17, 2018 18:57
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Don't understand why there's a debate about Bulwark vs Jump Jets in single player. No one relies on evasion all the time, you jump if you need to adjust position due to reinforcement flanking or armor loss. It's jump + vigilance + shooting the same turn + taking less damage because you have some evasion, vs. don't jump + not shooting + getting hit by flank shots.
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May 17, 2018 19:03
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Did they add new mech mods to the update? I got a part that gives a -10% to heat generation, and it's the first time I ever saw it. Find me a ++ version and maybe I'll make me a Quad PPC boat, as Kerensky intended.
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May 17, 2018 19:09
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Whoa. Can it go in any location, how much does it weigh etc.?
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May 17, 2018 19:10
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Emong posted:It basically doesn't generate heat, has a longer range than LRMs and does a shitload of stab damage. It's for blapping mechs from so far away they can't even see you on radar. Yup. "Hey, Tremor can see you. *click* Now you have max stability damage and I can fart a missile out you and knock you down!"
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May 17, 2018 19:11
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Triangle Shirt Factotum posted:Did they add new mech mods to the update? I got a part that gives a -10% to heat generation, and it's the first time I ever saw it. Those were in the base game but there was some (maybe bug?) thing making them virtually never show up in any shops. There's ones that are up to -30% generation I think, and there's also ones that increase both your overheat threshold and total heat capacity.
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May 17, 2018 19:15
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Zore posted:Anyone else feel like Jumpjets are mostly worthless once you move into the Heavy+ stage of the game? I never used them on my Heavies or Assaults and never missed them at all, they seemed pointlessly heavy for a lovely movement effect. Yep, there's so few times that they're useful. Maybe one story mission and the times you get stuck on stupid bits of hill or whatever. I removed all of them and put on more guns instead.
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May 17, 2018 19:22
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Multiple people who beat the game using very different tactics and mechanic and pilots: Your way is doomed to failure!
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May 17, 2018 19:23
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So I feel like perhaps the fact that my lance was 380 tons is not something that the game takes into account when accounting for difficulty in the final missions. last mission chat so i didn't really understand what was going on with the base defense, and just sort of left my dudes braced wherever. This resulted in the first reinforcement lance landing directly behind two of my mechs. I was actually very concerned, because even if they weren't able to core them both out before the rest were able to close ranks and repel them, I stood to lose a lot of valuable equipment and I had spread the D-Heatsinks and so on around. Gyros, +++ equipment, I was concerned! But. Despite being literally directly in the rear arc of these assault mechs, they shot at the turrets instead. When my guys all swiveled around and starting coring them out one by one, they... shot at turrets again. Then the next lance landed on the far side of the base, and shot... at turrets while i ground them into the earth 120 LRMs a turn. I mean having the enemies just pop in place was already bizarre (for a second I thought the drop ship killed the mech it landed on, but at least I was spared that indignity). This was the penultimate mission, the challenge to capstone the game, and it was horns.aiff for the stupid AI. Come to think, they did the same thing in the drop ship refueling mission and basically any mission where there were turrets assisting. 60 hours played, extremely satisfied with my kickstarter dollars, and the credits with all the developer pictures made me feel very happy. Good Game, above notwithstanding.
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May 17, 2018 19:28
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I feel JJs are a net negative in mars/lunar environments. That first jump where you also fire comes to pass after 3 or 4 rounds. If you're decreasing armor for the JJs then maybe it evens out
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May 17, 2018 19:32
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In polar I love JJs, need to get far enough to have dedicated teams
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May 17, 2018 19:32
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I don't use jump Jets at all, I find them to be a waste of tonnage for things like heatsinks and damage. They also generate heat which is what I'm constantly battling with to keep my mechs always doing damage. Also bulwark of -50% damage is just so powerful. Draw them to you and use Hills to funnel guys.. with LRMs just whittling them down. Until ac20 in the face when they round that Hill.
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May 17, 2018 19:35
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Random idea for encouraging the use of smaller mechs; tonnage limitations based on detection. Something like "the enemy has sensors all over the place and you can't insert more than 200 tons without being detected". Alternatively tonnage limits based on locations, with frozen lakes that can take small mechs but collapse if the mech is too heavy, or sand areas that small mechs can get through but large mechs can only move one hex per turn. Make it an environmental or mission challenge.
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May 17, 2018 19:45
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Galaga Galaxian posted:Dropships are expensive but not irreplaceable, you might be thinking of jumpships. Santiago blew up at least one dropship during the coup too. I'd love to see HBS do a New Game+ where players have the chance to upgrade to a dropship other than the Argo. Start with a Leopard, have the chance to upgrade to a Union or Overlord, stuff like that.
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May 17, 2018 19:52
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Let me cash in morale or just c-bills for close air support.
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May 17, 2018 19:56
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RBA Starblade posted:Always take jump jets so you don't end up on a mountain you can't leave and lose by default Not emptyquoting.
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May 17, 2018 20:05
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BitBasher posted:Same here. I use them all the time. They are invaluable getting into cover, around unwalkable obstacles, extreme facing changes after movement and so on. Plus they make my heavies get at least 3 pips when I need to and move further over some types of terrain while still being able to shoot. I tried king crabs without them because hey 6t of JJ or 6t of weapons turns out 6t of JJs lets you use any weapons period, even if you mount fewer of them 
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May 17, 2018 20:11
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Triangle Shirt Factotum posted:Did they add new mech mods to the update? I got a part that gives a -10% to heat generation, and it's the first time I ever saw it. Those have been there the whole time, they're just really rare. The ++ versions only spawn on four planets in the game.
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May 17, 2018 20:12
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ulmont posted:Not emptyquoting. Is this a serious issue? I haven't run into it at all. How often have you seen it?
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May 17, 2018 20:13
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Zore posted:Is this a serious issue? I haven't run into it at all. It's happened to a few units of mine a good bit but since I can just jump don't really care. You can also jump down cliffs which is pretty handy. I always take at least a single jet.
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May 17, 2018 20:19
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Emong posted:Those have been there the whole time, they're just really rare. The ++ versions only spawn on four planets in the game. Three of which are in Kurita space. Yuris, Hurik, and Victoria. Taurians have the last in New Vandenburg. It's easy to just make loops in Kurita traveling through those three systems (they're all fairly close, one on the Fed-Suns border, one on the Aurigan border, and the last is basically a staight line deeper into Kurita space from both of them) checking stores and running missions to fund the travel expenses/monthly expenses.
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May 17, 2018 20:28
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People here keep insinuating that jump jets aren't good because of bulwark. They are not mutually exclusive and can both be useful in the same fight. It's not one or the other.
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May 17, 2018 20:31
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