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I have crit tables for both but the fails heavily lean toward "nothing happens" or something minor. Thinking forward I'd probably exempt someone with multiple attacks from fails because it would take up more time and make less sense in the fiction.
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May 18, 2018 00:47
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MonsterEnvy posted:Marking is a rule in the DMG. But it's pretty simple and I don't know if it works the same as in 4e. For reference here is what a 4e Fighter does (note all the defender marks work differently): -Every time you attack an enemy, whether the attack hits or misses, you can choose to mark that target -The mark lasts until the end of your next turn. -While a target is marked, it takes a −2 penalty to attack rolls for any attack that doesn’t include you as a target. -When a marked enemy is adjacent to the fighter who marked it, and shifts or makes an attack that does not include the fighter who marked it as a target, the fighter who marked it can make a melee basic attack against it as an immediate interrupt action. The big difference to point out is that 4e marking: -Would not cost the fighter anything to perform, it just happens regardless of a hit or miss and does not use up the fighter's attack of opportunity or reaction when triggered. -Would trigger on anything the marked target did that wasn't specifically disengaging or attacking the fighter back. -Would make it extremely hazardous and difficult to try to attack anything that wasn't the fighter.
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May 18, 2018 01:01
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dnd newbies streaming now from the imp zone https://www.twitch.tv/averagebearsa
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May 18, 2018 01:09
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Average Bear posted:dnd newbies streaming now from the imp zone https://www.twitch.tv/averagebearsa
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May 18, 2018 01:11
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Jeffrey of YOSPOS posted:that's a fuckin' knockoff jeff he ain't no jeff #notmyjeff
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May 18, 2018 01:24
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Another fun thing I see in a lot of Critical Failure Tables: Yeah, fighters end up getting more critical failures the more often they attack. Meanwhile, wizards make OTHER people roll, and THEY can critically fail to resist. The wizard usually doesn't critically fail basically anything, because they're not rolling the dice.
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May 18, 2018 01:34
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kingcom posted:The big difference to point out is that 4e marking: The 5e version in the DMG only seems to do the first thing.
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May 18, 2018 01:40
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Eggnogium posted:I don't think my players are going to appreciate player death any time soon. If PC death isn’t on the table, what negative consequences are they trying to avoid in combat?
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May 18, 2018 02:04
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MonsterEnvy posted:The 5e version in the DMG only seems to do the first thing. I assume you mean the first part of the first thing. In D&D 4e you get both an opportunity attack and an immediate action so you are actually able to both smack someone who is triggering your mark AND still have an attack of opportunity active on top. So if an enemy triggers your mark they are still stuck standing next to you because your attack of op is still up, something 5e marking doesn't actually do. Subjunctive posted:If PC death isn’t on the table, what negative consequences are they trying to avoid in combat? Negative narrative consequences. If the game is supposed to be about telling a story then the consequences, both positive and negative, should be story related.
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May 18, 2018 02:21
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kingcom posted:I assume you mean the first part of the first thing. In D&D 4e you get both an opportunity attack and an immediate action so you are actually able to both smack someone who is triggering your mark AND still have an attack of opportunity active on top. So if an enemy triggers your mark they are still stuck standing next to you because your attack of op is still up, something 5e marking doesn't actually do. Oh ok. I was just referring to the fact that Marking in 5e does allow you to preform an opportunity attack without losing your reaction and happens even if you don't hit. (So I guess maybe you could do another AoO on the same guy.) But I was not aware that this is how it worked in 4e. As I have little experience with it. (I played it for a bit, but not much.) Anyway I think that Ogre ability is cool, and would be ok with giving some PC's abilities like it. It's a really good ability for tank like characters. kingcom posted:Negative narrative consequences. If the game is supposed to be about telling a story then the consequences, both positive and negative, should be story related. Like death? MonsterEnvy fucked around with this message at 02:31 on May 18, 2018 |
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May 18, 2018 02:28
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Jeffrey of YOSPOS posted:On that same fighter that would still make them get a crit fail every ~20 rounds so hopefully it's not too bad of a crit fail. It's less of an issue on characters with fewer attacks per turn certainly. It is on the one power gamer in my group and I tend to make sure it punishes him for thinking too hard.
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May 18, 2018 03:19
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MonsterEnvy posted:Oh ok. I was just referring to the fact that Marking in 5e does allow you to preform an opportunity attack without losing your reaction and happens even if you don't hit. (So I guess maybe you could do another AoO on the same guy.) But I was not aware that this is how it worked in 4e. As I have little experience with it. (I played it for a bit, but not much.) Well I think you are still restricted to 1 attack of opportunity with that 5e marking so despite still having your reaction and being able to do things with it I don't think you can AoO twice with it. MonsterEnvy posted:Like death? Death can be a good narrative consequence but it is also a mechanical consequence. Death of protagonist is an extremely useful narrative tool in many forms of fiction but the uniqueness of a table top rpg means you actually need to consider that the death of a character can mean someone is sitting out of the game for prolonged periods and given the amount of work required to make a character can very easily be unsatisfying and frustrating rather than a big dramatic hook. Even in fiction where death is common, they very rarely include death of someone important in a meaningless way and usually use it as a major dramatic flair or twist at an important moment. Similarly death can work in a table top roleplaying if the death occurs as a suitably impressive moment or as some fulfillment of a character arc. The key difference is that those low level fights between the climatic and dramatic moments are places where death is mostly uninteresting and frustrating but are often just as likely to take place should rolls go badly. Therefore death isn't really a narrative consequence that can be applied in a table top roleplaying game without specifically designing for it or only using it in very specific situations. Instead you need to think of something that hurts and preferable advances the story, without removing the ability for someone to participate in the game you all came here to play. The classic example people go to is having a player get captured as part of the exchange this pushes the narrative forward as it means the players are usually taken to the villain and get more information and story progress while also presenting them with a new set of options. ' Games that are a bit more narratively open ended make it easier but assuming your group isn't going to throw a panic attack for things outside the rules happening you can try things like: -NPCs getting taken/killed -Part of your character backstory being introduced in a way that provides a negative to them (e.g. a family member/old friend/rival etc are working for the bad guy and you see them just before you black out but they want you alive for reasons) -Items/treasure is destroyed/stolen -Narrative points and resources are lost (inspiration but FATE etc all kicks in here) -The goal you are working towards is set back (protect a town = it has been captured, save someone = they cannot be saved now, build an alliance = you've delivered a potential friend into the arms of the enemy, whatever the bad guys want = they are pushed closer to getting it or even get it and move on not caring about dumb failures of adventurers) -Information is revealed that shocks and changes the players involved -Information is lost that changes characters This stuff is literally flooded throughout fiction: Luke and Vader fight on Cloud City and Luke loses that fight. He does not die and even his hand being cut off is irrelevant as he gets it restored 2 scenes later. The narrative consequence of that defeat is that Luke learns Vader is his father and that means he's been lied to by his mentors Obi-wan and Yoda and can no longer trust them or treat them as reliable sources of truth. An extremely powerful narrative consequence. At the end of Avengers Infinity War All the support NPCs die while purely by coincidence all the main original avengers are alive and kicking now having lost the battle and losing all their friends and loved ones but are alive to go confront the bad guy and set things right. In the Lord of the Rings when they are attacked by a random encounter of Uruks they lose that fight, and while they drive the Uruks off the consequences are that Boromir dies, two of the Hobbits are captured and the important Mcguffin the party is escorting decides to flee in the opposite direction. The player characters of Aragorn, Legolas and Gimli are now left to decide which pair of hobbits they should follow since they've failed to protect them and what they should do next.
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May 18, 2018 03:21
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Nephzinho posted:It is on the one power gamer in my group and I tend to make sure it punishes him for thinking too hard. wut. I mean maybe I think differently but why punish him for thinking too hard? kingcom fucked around with this message at 03:29 on May 18, 2018 |
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May 18, 2018 03:22
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Crit fails in my group have evolved into something hilarious (but mechanically innocuous) happening to rolling party.
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May 18, 2018 03:41
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Marking in 5e according to the DMG works as follows: - whenever a creature makes a melee attack, they can Mark the target (I assume this means it doesn't matter if they hit, per the phrasing) - the Mark lasts until the end of the Marker's next turn - if the Marked target triggers an AOO from the Marker, the Marker's AOO has Advantage - the description also says quote:The opportunity attack doesn't expend the attacker's reaction quote:The attacker is limited to one opportunity attack per turn. It's unclear to me whether this means "the Marker only ever gets to AOO once, but can still use their Reaction to do something else" or if it means "the Marker gets to make one reaction-free AOO as triggered by the Mark, and then can make a second, normal-Reaction-using AOO" _______ In any case, as I've said before, this doesn't actually do anything like what 4e Marking does: all creatures get to use it, not just Defenders there is no penalty on the Marked target to incentivize attacking the Marker instead there is no "punishment" clause that gives the Marker an extra ability to work with In 4e, if an Orc is Marked by Bob the Fighter, the Orc either attacks Bob and has a high chance of missing due to Bob's high Defender AC, or the Orc attacks Rick the Mage but then takes a -2 penalty to the attack (which artificially increases Rick's own AC) while also letting Bob make a free attack against the Orc In 5e, if an Orc is Marked by Bob the Fighter, the Orc can ... attack Rick the Mage, and it works out to be exactly as if they hadn't been Marked at all, except if they would have triggered an AOO to get to Rick, at which point Bob just happens to get Advantage on the AOO
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May 18, 2018 03:43
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Some subclasses have abilities that give tanking abilities so it seems marking would be most useful for them as just an extra tool. Like the Ancestral Guardian Barbarian. Which makes it so that while it's raging, enemies they hit have disadvantage on attack rolls against their allies. And if they do get hit the allies only take half damage. Adding marking on top of that would be fairly useful to the barbarian.
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May 18, 2018 03:58
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its almost like marking is super useful and should have been given to all the defendery-y classes from the outset
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May 18, 2018 04:07
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Serf posted:its almost like marking is super useful and should have been given to all the defendery-y classes from the outset Well it's currently just a DMG variant rule that everyone gets if you include it. I was just saying the 5e version is a nice bonus for the tanking types if you use it.
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May 18, 2018 04:09
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MonsterEnvy posted:Well it's currently just a DMG variant rule that everyone gets if you include it. I was just saying the 5e version is a nice bonus for the tanking types if you use it. its almost like marking is super useful and should have been given to all the defendery-y classes from the outset
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May 18, 2018 04:10
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MonsterEnvy posted:Well it's currently just a DMG variant rule that everyone gets if you include it. I was just saying the 5e version is a nice bonus for the tanking types if you use it. it's not a nice bonus for the tanking types is, as written, everyone gets it
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May 18, 2018 04:19
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MonsterEnvy posted:Well it's currently just a DMG variant rule that everyone gets if you include it. I was just saying the 5e version is a nice bonus for the tanking types if you use it. you are dumb.
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May 18, 2018 04:27
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gradenko_2000 posted:it's not a nice bonus for the tanking types is, as written, everyone gets it Yes everyone gets it. But it's more useful for the tanking types. Elfgames posted:you are dumb. Yes I am mildly autistic and not super great at reading into what people are saying at some times. Can't help it that I initially missed what he is talking about.
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May 18, 2018 04:35
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MonsterEnvy posted:Yes everyone gets it. But it's more useful for the tanking types. no i'm not talking about autism. you are dumb
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May 18, 2018 04:36
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Elfgames posted:no i'm not talking about autism. you are dumb Dumb because I couldn't understand what he was saying at first? In which case yes. Or I am I dumb because I think that that is a decent extra bonus? In which case I don't agree. MonsterEnvy fucked around with this message at 04:40 on May 18, 2018 |
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May 18, 2018 04:37
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CubeTheory posted:Cunning Action Yes, but what are you doing with it that makes it worth delaying your ASIs two whole levels for a class built on attack rolls and spell saves.
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May 18, 2018 04:52
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My Beyond Copy of Mords tome of Foes just unlocked. Any of you interested in some previews from it? ToC if any of you wants to request something. 
MonsterEnvy fucked around with this message at 05:08 on May 18, 2018 |
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May 18, 2018 05:03
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Nah
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May 18, 2018 05:05
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is there literally anything interesting about the seasonal eladrin other than some mild elemental subtype stuff I assume?
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May 18, 2018 05:14
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sexpig by night posted:is there literally anything interesting about the seasonal eladrin other than some mild elemental subtype stuff I assume? The Monsters or the Player version? Assuming you mean the Player version. Any Eladrin can swap seasons at the end of a long rest. And all Eladrin have access to this ability that changes based on their season. But for the most part season is about how you roleplay your Eladrin. Fey Step posted:As a bonus action, you can magically teleport up to 30 feet to an unoccupied space you can see. Once you use this trait, you can’t do so again until you finish a short or long rest. MonsterEnvy fucked around with this message at 05:31 on May 18, 2018 |
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May 18, 2018 05:19
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mango sentinel posted:Yes, but what are you doing with it that makes it worth delaying your ASIs two whole levels for a class built on attack rolls and spell saves. I don't actually do anything that requires saves, I've purposely avoided it because my build is all weird, but I mostly want Cunning Action so that when I'm standing in my own Darkness I can smash people then bonus action Hide.
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May 18, 2018 05:39
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If you pour two potions of healing into a bigger flask, do the potions stack?
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May 18, 2018 05:42
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Uh wow looking at Beyond and they only have 1 new race. And a bunch of subraces for elves/tiefling but still. That is not a lot of character options. Glad I didn't preorder the book for Beyond.
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May 18, 2018 05:43
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Ryuujin posted:Uh wow looking at Beyond and they only have 1 new race. And a bunch of subraces for elves/tiefling but still. That is not a lot of character options. Glad I didn't preorder the book for Beyond. It's not really a player book. More of a Lore book/ Monster Manual like Volos.
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May 18, 2018 05:44
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MonsterEnvy posted:My Beyond Copy of Mords tome of Foes just unlocked. Any of you interested in some previews from it? They got anything interesting in the CR 4-8 range that would be a good thing to throw into a group fight ?
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May 18, 2018 05:53
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And I have now had a chance to look at the infinitesimal player options available in the book. And now I regret spending money on them. They are unbelievably disappointing. Can't tell about the rest of the book, but this doesn't exactly bode well. Also what do you mean it isn't really a player book? They don't really do player books in this edition. I mean they don't release much of anything at all, with most of the releases being second party or so, but even what they release is NEVER a player book in this edition. Instead they release a book with mostly DM stuff, and maybe some player options in a few books. Of the books that had player options this probably had the least, and the poorest quality.
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May 18, 2018 05:53
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kingcom posted:They got anything interesting in the CR 4-8 range that would be a good thing to throw into a group fight ? Or polymorph options.
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May 18, 2018 05:54
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CubeTheory posted:I don't actually do anything that requires saves, I've purposely avoided it because my build is all weird, but I mostly want Cunning Action so that when I'm standing in my own Darkness I can smash people then bonus action Hide. Enemies already have disadvantage to hit you and you have advantage against them, you don't need to Hide. Plus you're delaying Shadow of Moil.
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May 18, 2018 05:59
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Ryuujin posted:And I have now had a chance to look at the infinitesimal player options available in the book. And now I regret spending money on them. They are unbelievably disappointing. Can't tell about the rest of the book, but this doesn't exactly bode well. However I do find the lore cool so far and there are a lots of monsters of the high level type. kingcom posted:They got anything interesting in the CR 4-8 range that would be a good thing to throw into a group fight ? I can't find out too many yet as I have not looked through the entire book and Beyond has not updated it's compendium with the ability to sort out the CR 4 to 8 Monsters yet. Cassa posted:Or polymorph options. MonsterEnvy fucked around with this message at 06:13 on May 18, 2018 |
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May 18, 2018 06:09
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MonsterEnvy posted:We have some new Yugoloths fiends that serve as mercenaries. And two of them are CR 7 and 8. The Dhergoloth and Canoloth. There is also the pretty awesome Corpse Flower a CR 8 Plant that is encountered with several corpses inside it, it can animate the corpses as zombies and or digest them to regain hit points. The Allip also looks cool. They sound pretty solid to throw into a pack, I'm running my players against Hobgoblins where their casters are all warlocks and there is a derth of things that can fit in at this CR thats doing anything different so they could be good. What kind of mechanics are we talking about here.
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May 18, 2018 06:15
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Just going to put the previews on the new page.
MonsterEnvy fucked around with this message at 06:30 on May 18, 2018 |
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May 18, 2018 06:20
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