|
having more raw numbers of pops only increases granularity, but if complexity (or lack thereof) is such that more granularity is not necessarily required then you can collapse all that down into an abstracted low number of pops. so if each pop has a class, religion, culture, and issue, all you need is enough pops to represent that.
|
#
?
May 20, 2018 01:38
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 20, 2024 21:07 |
|
|
Perhaps we should consider that Victoria III may not sell very well.
|
|
#
?
May 20, 2018 01:57
|
|
|
Crazycryodude posted:From the screenshot there's only 4 actual types of pop shown, then with numbers besides them. When I say 20 pops I mean that the numbers add up to 20, not that there are 20 different types. Just from the icons, the 4 types look vaguely like social classes (guy that looks like a slave, guy that looks like a common freeman, guy in a fancy robe) and presumably make different things. Which really doesn't feel that different from 3 types of development that make different things. Fancy rob guy is no doubt a patrician.
|
|
#
?
May 20, 2018 01:58
|
|
|
if the game doesnt simulate the accumulation of land by the wealthy patricians ill wait till its on sail to buy tbh
|
|
#
?
May 20, 2018 02:01
|
|
|
IncredibleIgloo posted:Perhaps we should consider that Victoria III may not sell very well. 
|
|
#
?
May 20, 2018 02:02
|
|
|
Charlz Guybon posted:Fancy rob guy is no doubt a patrician. Agean90 posted:if the game doesnt simulate the accumulation of land by the wealthy patricians ill wait till its on sail to buy tbh Tomn posted:The pops thing is actually from EU: Rome. Back then, there were three pop types: Slaves, freemen, and citizens, all of whom lived in a given province. Slaves provided income, freemen provided manpower, and citizens provided research. Depending on your laws, though, you'd constantly be getting a slow promotion of slaves to freemen to citizens, so you're encouraged to get out there and conquer fresh slaves to keep the economy going, especially if you took national ideas that increased the rate of slave emancipation. Beating armies in battle also sent slaves straight back to the capital, so you ended up with with enormous, burgeoning capital cities fat with slaves and ex-slaves over time. OK, hands up, how many people here have actually played EU: Rome? Edit: Also fighting in a province and sieges could reduce the pops of the province due to either being outright killed or enslaved by the victors. I remember at one point in Crete there was a lot of guff about "conquering the rich Anatolian cities," except it turned out that we'd been fighting so many wars in the region that they were a burned out near-worthless husk. Tomn fucked around with this message at 02:08 on May 20, 2018 |
|
#
?
May 20, 2018 02:05
|
|
|
Tomn posted:The pops thing is actually from EU: Rome. Back then, there were three pop types: Slaves, freemen, and citizens, all of whom lived in a given province. Slaves provided income, freemen provided manpower, and citizens provided research. Depending on your laws, though, you'd constantly be getting a slow promotion of slaves to freemen to citizens, so you're encouraged to get out there and conquer fresh slaves to keep the economy going, especially if you took national ideas that increased the rate of slave emancipation. Beating armies in battle also sent slaves straight back to the capital, so you ended up with with enormous, burgeoning capital cities fat with slaves and ex-slaves over time. That actaully sounds way deeper than I realized the system working. Sounds pretty good at replicating the drive for conquest.
|
|
#
?
May 20, 2018 02:07
|
|
|
IncredibleIgloo posted:Perhaps we should consider that Victoria III may not sell very well. is Rome 2 really any better off by that reckoning?
|
|
#
?
May 20, 2018 02:10
|
|
|
Tomn posted:OK, hands up, how many people here have actually played EU: Rome? i played like 1 hour eu rome with that one mod i didnt see it track the income of each individual pop i also didnt look very very hard so ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
|
|
#
?
May 20, 2018 02:10
|
|
|
I bought it one week when I was busy to have something to look forward to playing after I finished, and spent that whole time hyped as hell to try it out. Then when I finally got to, I spent an hour getting Wiz's mod to work, launched it, then looked at it for 5 minutes before deciding it looked too complicated to figure out right now and I'd try it again tomorrow. That was months ago now so
|
|
#
?
May 20, 2018 02:12
|
|
|
Charlz Guybon posted:That actaully sounds way deeper than I realized the system working. Sounds pretty good at replicating the drive for conquest. Also if you were big on promoting freemen to citizens you could end up with a decadent, highly sophisticated culture where nobody feels like lifting a finger in defense of the state. Edit: I didn't actually play the game THAT often myself. Like, maybe two games, tops. But I did spend more time that I care to admit looking up how it worked for Crete. Tomn fucked around with this message at 02:18 on May 20, 2018 |
|
#
?
May 20, 2018 02:13
|
|
|
Prav posted:is Rome 2 really any better off by that reckoning? I don't know, but I would be willing to bet that Paradox must have some data that would suggest it.
|
|
#
?
May 20, 2018 02:20
|
|
|
Johan confirmed the pops are Noblemen, Freemen, Tribesmen and Slaves.
|
|
#
?
May 20, 2018 02:50
|
|
|
Excited for Rome. I realised though, that when I think of Rome, I think of Imperial Rome. Republican Rome just... never enters my mind. Weirdly, I'm already thinking of what the DLC will be like. Also looking forward to buying a game called 'Rome' and never playing Rome.
|
|
#
?
May 20, 2018 02:56
|
|
|
I am looking forward to playing as Phyrrus.
|
|
#
?
May 20, 2018 02:58
|
|
|
I'm unironically excited for this and I blame the Historia Civilis guy on youtube for that
|
|
#
?
May 20, 2018 03:03
|
|
|
NoNotTheMindProbe posted:Johan confirmed the pops are Noblemen, Freemen, Tribesmen and Slaves. Are they actual pops as paradox fans have come to understand them (distinct independent actors with their own motives like in vicky) or are they just a number next to an icon on the province screen?
|
|
#
?
May 20, 2018 03:03
|
|
|
One good thing is that it made me go dig out the old Rome game to go full nostalgia.
|
|
#
?
May 20, 2018 03:07
|
|
|
Dr. Video Games 0031 posted:Are they actual pops as paradox fans have come to understand them (distinct independent actors with their own motives like in vicky) or are they just a number next to an icon on the province screen? They have their own culture and religion https://www.google.co.kr/amp/s/www.eurogamer.net/amp/2018-05-19-paradoxs-big-new-grand-strategy-game-is-imperator-rome quote:Diverse Populations: Citizens, freemen, tribesmen and slaves - each population with its own culture and religion. Whether they fill your armies, fill your coffers or fill your colonies, keep an eye on their happiness - your success depends on their satisfaction.
|
|
#
?
May 20, 2018 03:16
|
|
|
Tomn posted:OK, hands up, how many people here have actually played EU: Rome? I played for a day with Wiz's mod and then i got a consistent crash at a specific date. EU: Rome was some unstable trash and i'm glad it's getting another chance.
|
|
#
?
May 20, 2018 03:24
|
|
|
Frionnel posted:I played for a day with Wiz's mod and then i got a consistent crash at a specific date. EU: Rome was some unstable trash and i'm glad it's getting another chance. Same happened to me, I enjoyed it while it lasted but it was old-school Paradox-unstable
|
|
#
?
May 20, 2018 03:29
|
|
|
|
|
#
?
May 20, 2018 03:42
|
|
|
If this doesn't simulate the craziness of Roman politics I will be disappointed.
|
|
#
?
May 20, 2018 04:48
|
|
|
rudecyrus posted:If this doesn't simulate the craziness of Roman politics I will be disappointed. That is definitely the whole point of the character system. It's something they tried to do in Rome 1 but it wasn't as in-depth as it could've been.
|
|
#
?
May 20, 2018 05:48
|
|
|
Ohhh so this is a test run of Vicky 3 then!
|
|
#
?
May 20, 2018 05:50
|
|
|
NoNotTheMindProbe posted:Johan confirmed the pops are Noblemen, Freemen, Tribesmen and Slaves. I think them spending time refining pops as a mechanic is a good sign.
|
|
#
?
May 20, 2018 05:51
|
|
|
Dr. Arbitrary posted:I think them spending time refining pops as a mechanic is a good sign. JosefStalinator posted:Ohhh so this is a test run of Vicky 3 then! 
|
|
#
?
May 20, 2018 05:52
|
|
|
Dirk Pitt posted:To be fair, it was only during dinner and karaoke. But sill. We should strive to be above furries. That furry is apparently noted Paradox Twitch streamer Shenryyr. At first I thought he was doing it ironically (since I don't really follow much of his stuff), but then I noticed that he has actual art of his fursona up on his Twitter profile.  Whatevs man, you do you I guess 
|
|
#
?
May 20, 2018 05:53
|
|
|
JosefStalinator posted:Ohhh so this is a test run of Vicky 3 then! Let's not get ahead of ourselves. Have they ever released a game that was an incomplete stinker as a way of making money while they refine a new engine or new mechanics?
|
|
#
?
May 20, 2018 06:08
|
|
|
Dr. Arbitrary posted:Let's not get ahead of ourselves. Have they ever released a game that was an incomplete stinker as a way of making money while they refine a new engine or new mechanics? I mean, that's one way to look at Sengoku.
|
|
#
?
May 20, 2018 06:14
|
|
|
Dr. Arbitrary posted:Let's not get ahead of ourselves. Have they ever released a game that was an incomplete stinker as a way of making money while they refine a new engine or new mechanics? I gotta wonder if Sengoku or MotE actually made any money.
|
|
#
?
May 20, 2018 06:14
|
|
|
JosefStalinator posted:Ohhh so this is a test run of Vicky 3 then! Dr. Arbitrary posted:I think them spending time refining pops as a mechanic is a good sign. "Here's how Bernie can still win!"
|
|
#
?
May 20, 2018 06:17
|
|
|
I wonder if there will be options to actually effectively reform the republic, or will the goal simply be to form an Empire?
|
|
#
?
May 20, 2018 06:21
|
|
|
Charlz Guybon posted:I wonder if there will be options to actually effectively reform the republic, or will the goal simply be to form an Empire?
|
|
#
?
May 20, 2018 06:23
|
|
|
Charlz Guybon posted:I wonder if there will be options to actually effectively reform the republic, or will the goal simply be to form an Empire? I dunno about reform, but again if it's like EU: Rome a republic is a constant dance to avoid someone grabbing hold of power and declaring a monarchy, while a monarchy is a paranoid eye on everyone else trying to make themselves the monarch. I expect there'll be some differences from EU: Rome but I doubt it'll be like Total War where there's only one goal re: govtypes.
|
|
#
?
May 20, 2018 06:29
|
|
|
I am no History major but wasn't republican Rome a constant standoff between the Elites and the Citizens like, worse than current US legislature?
|
|
#
?
May 20, 2018 06:31
|
|
|
Having pops defined by an actual real number of people is great, I was worried it was gonna be like EU4 where the relationship of development relative to real world population and GDP is only somewhat consistent on a country by country basis - and mostly completely skewed region to region. In terms of immersion, the 1:666 level of fidelity (assuming Rome is a single province that can reach its historical population) on the population band is a huge step up from the 1:20 or so one from EU4 - making metropolises truly awe-inspiring relative to some backwater hole in the ground.JosefStalinator posted:Ohhh so this is a test run of Vicky 3 then!
|
|
#
?
May 20, 2018 06:37
|
|
|
algebra testes posted:I am no History major but wasn't republican Rome a constant standoff between the Elites and the Citizens like, worse than current US legislature? Well it was more standoff between the elites, some of whom promoted policies that aimed at garnering the support of the populace, hence being known as the populares. The current US legislature is a beacon of good government, stability and cooperation compared to the late Roman Republic, which was basically just a hilariously dysfunctional poo poo show (but a poo poo show that subjugated much of the known world) for its last 100 years or.
|
|
#
?
May 20, 2018 06:37
|
|
|
algebra testes posted:I am no History major but wasn't republican Rome a constant standoff between the Elites and the Citizens like, worse than current US legislature? It was a constant stand-off between the elites, the elites, and the citizens, yes. Towards the end the elites could summon so much individual power that all the patricians were paranoid about someone who had loyal legions or enormous wealth/popularity seizing total control of the state (as in fact happened, albeit temporarily, a few times near the waning days of Republican Rome). As it happened, making plebians happy for any reason was viewed as suspicious and a potential move by a kingmaker seeking to lay down the foundations for his coronation by building popular support. The thing is, they might not have necessarily been wrong, ether. Edit: Also the fact that everyone was worried about a popularity-based coup meant that it was almost impossible to implement any kind of political reform without being accused of making a bid for total state control, which was kind of an issue when the political structure was running an enormous empire yet large unchanged from the days when Rome was a single city. Tomn fucked around with this message at 06:46 on May 20, 2018 |
|
#
?
May 20, 2018 06:40
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 20, 2024 21:07 |
|
|
This is how Stellaris should have been, but they had to throw in an awful tile management system too.
|
|
#
?
May 20, 2018 06:41
|
|
