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Baronash posted:Sure is good that technology is static and has never improved then, right? I think you're wildly optimistic about the timeline, but is a gradual replacement of jobs with automation inherently bad?
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May 21, 2018 00:26
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Jose Valasquez posted:I think you're wildly optimistic about the timeline, but is a gradual replacement of jobs with automation inherently bad? In a society where you need a job to earn money, need money to buy food, and need food to not starve, yes.
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May 21, 2018 00:33
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Baronash posted:In a society where you need a job to earn money, need money to buy food, and need food to not starve, yes. I guess we should stop all technological progress then 
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May 21, 2018 00:34
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Cicero posted:Shitposting aside, that's a real thing that's gonna happen. Hell I think they're already doing it in Japan? I'm a page late but this is basically another colour of the "but I don't wanna talk to another human" issue. Japan doesn't have a labour shortage; it has a nationwide fear of letting in *shudders* foreigners on anything more than short, fixed-term visas. There are thousands of people in Thailand and the Philippines that could solve their aged-carer needs like *snaps fingers* but, y'know, they're the wrong kind of Asian for Glorious Nippon. All AI and robot development here is done with the sole focus of "we've got to be able to cope with our shrinking population without having to let immigrants befoul our sacred shores".
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May 21, 2018 00:41
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Jose Valasquez posted:I guess we should stop all technological progress then Yes, this is the only solution. Or, comedy option, we act like compassionate human beings and disassociate being employed from having the right to exist.
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May 21, 2018 00:41
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Baronash posted:Yes, this is the only solution. I mean, I agree with having a strong social safety net but that is kinda separate from whether or not technology should move forward. I don't think it is realistic to stop all innovation until the social safety net is fixed.
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May 21, 2018 00:44
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Jose Valasquez posted:I mean, I agree with having a strong social safety net but that is kinda separate from whether or not technology should move forward. I don't think it is realistic to stop all innovation until the social safety net is fixed. If ((basic_income) && (universal_healthcare) && (affordable _housing)) then technological_progress = A_Good_Thing;
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May 21, 2018 00:50
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VideoGameVet posted:If ((basic_income) && (universal_healthcare) && (affordable _housing)) then technological_progress = A_Good_Thing; Technological progress creates jobs too. The call center jobs didn't exist 60 years ago but do now because of technological progress.
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May 21, 2018 00:56
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Jose Valasquez posted:Technological progress creates jobs too. The call center jobs didn't exist 60 years ago but do now because of technological progress. Is the world better off for those call center jobs though? It depends heavily on what individual call centers are for. For example, telemarketing is cancer.
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May 21, 2018 02:32
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Weatherman posted:All AI and robot development here is done with the sole focus of "we've got to be able to cope with our shrinking population without having to let immigrants befoul our sacred shores". People have been saying this for a long time and it always seems weird, because like, there is truth to it that Japan has major issues with race and immigration, but at the same time it also always feels like a thing people say as a jealousy thing, like those stupid Japanese can't possibly be more advanced than us, so it must be because they are immoral. Then people finding one factor and saying "yes, see, it's that" and then hand waving every single kind of automation as "see, Japan is just racists, america could have improved robotic car manufacture in the 1980s and not have gotten so far behind but we are just too moral". Like there is a definite thing where any time any country is more advanced in some field than the US you see people settling on some negative quality of that country and saying "oh yes, they aren't really more advanced than us, actually they are less advanced than us, America #1"
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May 21, 2018 02:36
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Owlofcreamcheese posted:People have been saying this for a long time and it always seems weird, because like, there is truth to it that Japan has major issues with race and immigration, but at the same time it also always feels like a thing people say as a jealousy thing, like those stupid Japanese can't possibly be more advanced than us, so it must be because they are immoral. Then people finding one factor and saying "yes, see, it's that" and then hand waving every single kind of automation as "see, Japan is just racists, america could have improved robotic car manufacture in the 1980s and not have gotten so far behind but we are just too moral". Dude I'm not American and I actually live here in Japan and consume the local media and Internet shitposts so you can take this weird viewpoint of yours and automate it. I have a folder full of articles where (usually) balding old dudes are talking about the coming labour crunch and pivot seamlessly into "of course, immigration is one option but that brings with it <list of scary boogeyman scenarios that is longer than the rest of the article> and therefore robots are our only hope". I'm white though so I'm one of the "good" foreigners who gets a long-term visa, it's only those Asian ones we've got to keep out, why just last week I heard <made up anecdote>
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May 21, 2018 02:45
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Weatherman posted:Dude I'm not American and I actually live here in Japan and consume the local media and Internet shitposts so you can take this weird viewpoint of yours and automate it. I mean, lots of countries are racist or xenophobic, lots of them don't become world class automation leaders. It seems like Japan was excelling at certain types of robotics and then used that for problems they wanted solved (good and bad) instead of some weird thing where the whole of Japan's technological progress was just racism.
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May 21, 2018 03:08
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Owlofcreamcheese posted:I mean, lots of countries are racist or xenophobic, lots of them don't become world class automation leaders. It seems like Japan was excelling at certain types of robotics and then used that for problems they wanted solved (good and bad) instead of some weird thing where the whole of Japan's technological progress was just racism. Ok I know you're owlofcreamcheese but where are you getting this from? I'm talking about current trends that have ramped up under the current PM and the current demographic situation. If you want to talk about historical racism then go find someone who's talking about it.
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May 21, 2018 03:20
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Weatherman posted:Ok I know you're owlofcreamcheese but where are you getting this from? I'm talking about current trends that have ramped up under the current PM and the current demographic situation. If you want to talk about historical racism then go find someone who's talking about it. The "Japan isn't really technologically advanced, they just hate foreigners" has been a trope for as long as Japan has been actually technologically advanced.
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May 21, 2018 03:24
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Owlofcreamcheese posted:People have been saying this for a long time and it always seems weird, because like, there is truth to it that Japan has major issues with race and immigration, but at the same time it also always feels like a thing people say as a jealousy thing, like those stupid Japanese can't possibly be more advanced than us, so it must be because they are immoral. Then people finding one factor and saying "yes, see, it's that" and then hand waving every single kind of automation as "see, Japan is just racists, america could have improved robotic car manufacture in the 1980s and not have gotten so far behind but we are just too moral". Hmmm, yes problems with racism and immigration and a desperate need to automate. That's sounds like a condition where America would compare favorably
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May 21, 2018 03:26
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Owlofcreamcheese posted:The "Japan isn't really technologically advanced, they just hate foreigners" has been a trope for as long as Japan has been actually technologically advanced. Oh my bad, I thought you were arguing the points made in this thread, not some other argument that only you are having. Carry on then.
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May 21, 2018 03:45
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Weatherman posted:Oh my bad, I thought you were arguing the points made in this thread, not some other argument that only you are having. Carry on then. I mean, are you new here? 
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May 21, 2018 03:50
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Thou shalt not make a machine in the likeness of a human mind.
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May 21, 2018 04:10
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Weatherman posted:Oh my bad, I thought you were arguing the points made in this thread, not some other argument that only you are having. Carry on then. You said all the ai research in Japan was focused on avoiding immigrants and that seems very extremely not the case.
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May 21, 2018 04:36
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Have there been any fishmech vs. OOCC rallies in this thread because I would fuckin' love to see one
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May 21, 2018 05:06
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Jose Valasquez posted:I mean, I agree with having a strong social safety net but that is kinda separate from whether or not technology should move forward. I don't think it is realistic to stop all innovation until the social safety net is fixed. Nobody is advocating stopping technological progress, so I'm not sure why you're so obsessed with distilling everyone's argument down to that.
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May 21, 2018 05:09
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I imagine two Google Duplexes.
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May 21, 2018 05:09
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Jose Valasquez posted:Technological progress creates jobs too. The call center jobs didn't exist 60 years ago but do now because of technological progress. Technological progress has been breaking down middle class jobs into lower class ones since the 90's. Up to 47% of all lower class jobs could be eliminated in the next 15 years. Systemic unemployment is an inevitability and a basic income will be needed to prevent suffering and death.
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May 21, 2018 08:03
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Weatherman posted:Have there been any fishmech vs. OOCC rallies in this thread because I would fuckin' love to see one https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mpw_FB2QrjQ
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May 21, 2018 08:44
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I'm sadly disappointed that you didn't link one of the convos where they try to seduce one another.
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May 21, 2018 09:02
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Well I'm convinced they're both robots now.
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May 21, 2018 09:07
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b_H44u3mHqw
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May 21, 2018 09:29
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Kobayashi posted:Depends on the situation but I get where you’re coming from. I wouldn’t want to “reserve online” if it worked the way Duplex was demoed. lol imagine being so goony that scheduling appointments with a bored and frustrated call center drone is your daily dose of meaningful hu-man contact that cannot be substituted by robots
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May 21, 2018 10:25
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I CANNOT EJACULATE WITHOUT SEEING NATIVE AMERICANS BRUTALISED!
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Freakazoid_ posted:Technological progress has been breaking down middle class jobs into lower class ones since the 90's. Up to 47% of all lower class jobs could be eliminated in the next 15 years. Yeah that's not gonna happen, enjoy suffering and death!
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May 21, 2018 11:03
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mandatory lesbian posted:suffering and death! beats working in a call center tbh
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May 21, 2018 12:41
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i worked in a call center and i can 100% say i'd rather have been talking to robots all day rather then people
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May 21, 2018 12:47
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Baronash posted:Nobody is advocating stopping technological progress, so I'm not sure why you're so obsessed with distilling everyone's argument down to that. My point is all but the most trivial technological advances are going to cause the need for some job to change. Where do we draw the line on what is allowed to be developed? It seems like at the very least we would need to stop researching AI entirely.
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May 21, 2018 15:00
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After tens of thousands of pre-orders, 3D audio headphones startup Ossic disappears https://techcrunch.com/2018/05/20/after-tens-of-thousands-of-pre-orders-high-end-3d-headphones-startup-ossic-disappears/ (they didint really "disappeared" , just declared they are shutting down and nobody will get a refund, blaming it on the fact nobody is really using VR)
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May 21, 2018 15:13
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Nuke Silicon Valley
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May 21, 2018 15:19
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Agreed without clicking on the link
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May 21, 2018 16:03
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At least the scooters aren't the huge eye sores the dockless bicycles are. Usually, anyways.
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May 21, 2018 16:22
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Heck Yes! Loam! posted:I don't think AI is going anywhere beyond useful niche applications, but it's silly to dismiss how invention and discovery stack on each other. Basically, as AI solutions come into regular use, people forget that once they were unattainable ideas, bleeding-edge research tasks. e: Re Japan, anybody remember the Third Wave of the 1980s, which we were assured meant the Japanese were doing software in an organized way and would soon eat all American software development's lunch? Arsenic Lupin fucked around with this message at 16:27 on May 21, 2018 |
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May 21, 2018 16:25
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Electric scooters are great. I mean I haven't used them but from an urbanist perspective, new convenient ways to get around that are not-cars are a great thing.
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May 21, 2018 16:36
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Nice to see all you AI snake oil peddlers are supportive of universal basic income as well!
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May 21, 2018 16:57
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When I read about electric scootersit was seems like a cool idea that would never work down here in the third world (they would get all stolen in the 1# day)
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May 21, 2018 16:59
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