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Sure, V might reach 15% if S collapses. But it is not likely to be a good thing for V, since other S voters would have left for M or SD and there would be no viable left-wing coalition. For V, that means they would end up in a worse situation than SD is today even if they have the corresponding number votes, since they would lack political collaborators and just be a faction on the outside of the political spectra. SD have avoided that issue by being in the middle of the political spectra in most issues except immigration. Having 15% of the votes is completely useless if it comes at the expense of your mainstream coalition partner and Vs successes in history have all been dependent on S. The support for Vs politics is also obviously not that high, given Vs numbers during a term where they have had a large influence on the economics. Especially for LO members, where some polls put SD at a higher approval rate than S.
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May 20, 2018 14:46
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Cardiac posted:For V, that means they would end up in a worse situation than SD is today even if they have the corresponding number votes, since they would lack political collaborators and just be a faction on the outside of the political spectra. How is this conclusion you draw from a term which has been colored by huge and unproportional influence from both V and SD on government policy. V has gotten almost a hundred concrete policy gains through parliament by being kingmaker for the budget and SD has managed to move both S & M to what basically is 75% amalgamations of what SD campaigned on in 2014 without negotiating with anyone. Worse situation? They're both better off than basically ever before and are consistently growing in polling as we get closer to election month.
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May 20, 2018 15:32
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MiddleOne posted:How is this conclusion you draw from a term which has been colored by huge and unproportional influence from both V and SD on government policy. V has gotten almost a hundred concrete policy gains through parliament by being kingmaker for the budget and SD has managed to move both S & M to what basically is 75% amalgamations of what SD campaigned on in 2014 without negotiating with anyone. Worse situation? They're both better off than basically ever before and are consistently growing in polling as we get closer to election month. I doubt people see V as the winners by getting getting their policy in the budget. Actual reforms will probably be attributed to the government for better or worse. V gains ate mostly cause S and MP are hemorrhaging voters now.
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May 20, 2018 15:49
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Cardiac posted:Too bad reality is kinda in the way given their behavior in 2015 and the latest deal with MP with regards to the Afghans. Politics is a confidence area, and the established parties have some catching up to the confidence SD have in certain issues.
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May 20, 2018 17:14
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Reality moved S&M to SDs position. As for V, you missed my point. Let us say S collapse and gets 20% and V gets 15%. Those 15% are worthless, since you need a voting block that you can compromise with. V have no natural coalition partner except S and without them, V will have very little influence despite gaining votes. In contrast, SD are located in the middle of the economical spectra and can potentially agree with both left and right, which is something that have happened a number of times the last 8 years. So ironically we can end up with stronger ideological left that has less influence due to the collapse of the normal coalition partner.
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May 20, 2018 17:32
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Here's another look into the crystal ball for you guys: The government as well as the Social Democrats and Socialist People's Party are changing the official definitions, so a "ghetto" is now explicitly a socially disadvantaged neighbourhood with an immigrant population of >50%.
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May 20, 2018 21:28
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Personally I find the typical people hanging around BIG shopping center in Herlev to be pretty sketchy looking and they're Danish.
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May 20, 2018 21:54
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Same, except Christiansborg and they can only barely be classified as human.
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May 21, 2018 01:06
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Yeah well, Soc Dem have been hovering between DF and NB for a while, and SF have been following them blindly since the kiddie gang blew the party up.
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May 21, 2018 16:56
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https://twitter.com/johanssonmorgan/status/998636998616322049
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May 22, 2018 05:05
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 Clicked the tweet for the OP and I am like WTF. I guess there have been going out memos to S members to stay on message.
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May 22, 2018 05:27
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Cardiac posted:
I saw an actual S municipal politician (and former parliamentary member) get pressured for questioning the tweet on Facebook by a government bureaucrat at midnight. They've completely lost it.
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May 22, 2018 05:32
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MiddleOne posted:I saw an actual S municipal politician (and former parliamentary member) get pressured for questioning the tweet on Facebook by a government bureaucrat at midnight. They've completely lost it. Oh, so the knives are already out. On the plus side, at least this election will be entertaining instead of just depressing, which was my expectation.
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May 22, 2018 05:38
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Can't spell SD without S. 
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May 22, 2018 09:32
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Potrzebie posted:Can't spell SD without S. So... what has S actually done? Everything that's actually changed since the migrant wave has been chipping away at extremely naive policies that would have been dead years ago if SD's existence didn't make them a matter of face-saving. The most concrete thing they've done to the immigration system is introduce maintenance / housing requirements for visa sponsors, which is a breathtakingly retarded problem to have had in the first place.
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May 22, 2018 09:56
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Does EL still support Maduro? I can't find anything recent, but I certainly understand why they would be keeping quiet about it. http://org.enhedslisten.dk/artikel/tillykke-til-venezuela-71257 There are literally no such thing as an acceptable political party.
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May 22, 2018 10:40
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 Well, that escalated quickly.
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May 22, 2018 11:14
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KozmoNaut posted:There are literally no such thing as an acceptable political party. An eternal truth. However, the current junta in Copenhagen has earned some points with me, mainly by moving public service jobs out of the capital and into the provinces, and by, loving finally, financially punishing companies in the trades for not taking on the apprentices that has been agreed that they should take for the last 15 (20?) years. If I was god emperor, I would accelerate both of those policies something fierce. gently caress centralization and gently caress people earning their fortune by just living somewhere, instead of by the merit of their work, that poo poo is toxic.
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May 22, 2018 11:25
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Cardiac posted:
Well Morgan brought up immigrants, Åkesson style, out of nowhere so...
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May 22, 2018 11:42
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Rnr posted:An eternal truth. However, the current junta in Copenhagen has earned some points with me, mainly by moving public service jobs out of the capital and into the provinces, and by, loving finally, financially punishing companies in the trades for not taking on the apprentices that has been agreed that they should take for the last 15 (20?) years. If I was god emperor, I would accelerate both of those policies something fierce. gently caress centralization and gently caress people earning their fortune by just living somewhere, instead of by the merit of their work, that poo poo is toxic. With you on the second one, but not on the first. The arbitrary moving of public sector institutions out of Copenhagen is in a lot of cases really stupid and was also done in the most hamfisted and idiotic way possible - there is nothing wrong with basing institutions that make sense away from Copenhagen, but the way to do it for those, would be to start by moving the central managers and whoever volunteers, then stop hiring in Copenhagen and start hiring where you want it to be - slower yes, but it would happen organically and without people getting their lives ruined because the V had to bribe the imbecilic hillbillies in DF with something right here and right now. They way it was done made people have to decide between the placed they'd worked for 10-20 years, have enormous experience with, is their career, is their dream job, and taking their kids away from schools/friends/family, spouses away from their jobs, etc. Also, what the gently caress do you mean when you say people earning their fortune by living somewhere? Anyway, Denmark made the international news again! For being racist/bigoted assholes again! New
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May 22, 2018 13:16
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Also those institutions you moved and all those people that will inevitably quit is a big brain drain. Those institutions wont be operating at anything close to efficiently in 10 years or less. Basically services go down, incompetents get hired to replace loyal tjänstemän and its hosed
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May 22, 2018 13:47
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Wild Horses posted:Also those institutions you moved and all those people that will inevitably quit is a big brain drain. If it costs some Swede 'tjänsteman' his job, Danes approve.
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May 22, 2018 14:39
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not sure there's much evidence backing that up tbh, sounds an awful lot like hand-wringing to me traditionally, there hasn't been much of an issue administratively with moving things out of the capital in norway - obviously it sucks for the people who are uprooted, but that doesn't mean that the services suffer from it not that this doesn't come up every time someone wants to do something outside of oslo, of course
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May 22, 2018 14:42
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The costs associated with it have already skyrocketed and it's probably going to be as big and expensive a failure as the municipal reform that Løkke spearheaded while Minister of the Interior.
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May 22, 2018 15:41
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is there an actual reason for decentralization other than that people like cars and taking up space and killing animals
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May 22, 2018 17:23
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Mercrom posted:is there an actual reason for decentralization other than that people like cars and taking up space and killing animals Awkwardly redistribution of wealth.
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May 22, 2018 17:26
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Revelation 2-13 posted:Also, what the gently caress do you mean when you say people earning their fortune by living somewhere? I'm saying that quite a few people earn more wealth simply by buying a condo or house somewhere and selling it 6 years later - far, far more, than they can earn by applying their skills, creating value, jobs etc, i.e. by showing merit. That is poison to any society and it becomes oh so tempting to try and accelerate the appreciation of your property, by centralising even more. We have a beautiful country, which should be decentralised, both power wise and population wise, partly to curb some of the worst effects of capitalism, as described above, partly because I believe it creates better human beings (google "happiness country vs city" or similar, for just one aspect - I would argue personal responsibility is another). Revelation 2-13 posted:Anyway, Denmark made the international news again! For being racist/bigoted assholes again! Okay, so that's racist and bigoted, saying something negative about a religious custom in relation to local work ethics? Bar is low these days I guess...
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May 22, 2018 19:03
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Rnr posted:Okay, so that's racist and bigoted, saying something negative about a religious custom in relation to local work ethics? Bar is low these days I guess... And 90% of the time when something horribly racist does happen here, it's caused by Inger Støjberg. It's not our fault she skipped out on DF because she's a power-hungry lunatic wanting to be in the ruling party.
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May 22, 2018 19:17
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Decentralized Denmark seems hard to do considering the size of Denmark. Decentralization away from the capital is a good thing. It is not like there is some magic competence available just in the capital. Take Sweden as example, which have a bunch of universities outside of Stockholm which are of the same or better class. Or the vehicle industry which have an excellent center in the Gothenburg area or the IT sector down in south of Sweden.
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May 22, 2018 20:17
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Rnr posted:I'm saying that quite a few people earn more wealth simply by buying a condo or house somewhere and selling it 6 years later - far, far more, than they can earn by applying their skills, creating value, jobs etc, i.e. by showing merit. That is poison to any society and it becomes oh so tempting to try and accelerate the appreciation of your property, by centralising even more. First of all, nobody promotes centralization to increase the value of their property but because for the public it is cheaper (more environmentally friendly too!) and for the individual it is much more convenient in terms of utilities/social service access, job market and social life. Secondly, earning that type of wealth does not really make you effectively richer in the city (the higher salary and better logistics does, however). Because the wealth is tied to your living space you can't really utilize it for consumption except to possibly decrease the big fat debt you take on when you buy your next living space. Housing prices are really just a symptom of capitalism and not centralization. Capitalism is not effectively fought by combating centralization either because centralization would still retain great advantages in resource utilization for any type of societal organization, and resources are always limited.
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May 22, 2018 20:54
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I do not want or intend to fight capitalism, that would be foolish. And I very much disagree that buying a house for 600k and having it appreciate to 1,7m does not make you richer, it certainly does, through no prowess of your own. What you spend that ill gotten gain on is up to you, banks will issue loans to you based on that security, you should try it. As for your first point, I do not agree, but that's just speculation on both our parts so meh.
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May 22, 2018 21:50
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Rnr posted:I'm saying that quite a few people earn more wealth simply by buying a condo or house somewhere and selling it 6 years later - far, far more, than they can earn by applying their skills, creating value, jobs etc, i.e. by showing merit. That is poison to any society and it becomes oh so tempting to try and accelerate the appreciation of your property, by centralising even more. I don't think centralized admin is a bad thing as long as the muni admin is on the ball, but it never is.
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May 22, 2018 21:59
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Zudgemud posted:First of all, nobody promotes centralization to increase the value of their property but because for the public it is cheaper (more environmentally friendly too!) and for the individual it is much more convenient in terms of utilities/social service access, job market and social life. lol this has nothing to do with why people get ornery about every state function inevitably being located in the capital again, i have not for my part seen any evidence that locating public services in the capital makes services better, cheaper or more efficient. the reason people want these institutions elsewhere is a) because they're stable, decent jobs and everyone wants those and b) because government is power and it behooves a society to locate power away from where the parliament and central bank are sometimes nobody's saying put the high court in Svalbard, just let's not pretend as though our pathetic capitals are impressive enough to actively prioritise at the expense of the rest of the country
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May 23, 2018 00:34
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Rnr posted:Okay, so that's racist and bigoted, saying something negative about a religious custom in relation to local work ethics? Bar is low these days I guess... Yeah, it is. Racist and bigoted that is. And also empirically wrong, but that just comes as natural to her as it does to you. We're talking about an adult who has chocolate and Coca-Cola for breakfast and is openly a fan of Den Korte Avis here, and she's a goddamn Minister lecturing on poo poo she doesn't know anything about. She lied about loving ham to own the Islams, dude. Can it get dumber than that? Or are you doing the whole song and dance where, aachshully, Islam is not a race as per Gobineauan racial classification system of 1853, so singling out a specific minority group for public harassment from one of the highest offices in the country and pulling that poo poo for more than a decade is not at all harmful, also it's happening in a vacuum where she isn't a fan of a nutjob couple who run a blog that's nothing but "I witnessed a brown man looking furtively and talking loudly on the phone, I was scared for my life" type poo poo, also they think the EU conspired with Arab dictators to covertly colonise Europe through immigration.
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May 23, 2018 03:23
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Groda posted:So... what has S actually done? Everything that's actually changed since the migrant wave has been chipping away at extremely naive policies that would have been dead years ago if SD's existence didn't make them a matter of face-saving. The most concrete thing they've done to the immigration system is introduce maintenance / housing requirements for visa sponsors, which is a breathtakingly retarded problem to have had in the first place. They have gone from "alla ska med" to "-unless you are new here and also a brown; then gently caress you". Also they've basically accepted SDs view of the world, while failing to realise that SD will always be "better" at the intolerance and racism game.
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May 23, 2018 07:38
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SplitSoul posted:Yeah, it is. Racist and bigoted that is. And also empirically wrong, but that just comes as natural to her as it does to you. We're talking about an adult who has chocolate and Coca-Cola for breakfast and is openly a fan of Den Korte Avis here, and she's a goddamn Minister lecturing on poo poo she doesn't know anything about. She lied about loving ham to own the Islams, dude. Can it get dumber than that? Or are you doing the whole song and dance where, aachshully, Islam is not a race as per Gobineauan racial classification system of 1853, so singling out a specific minority group for public harassment from one of the highest offices in the country and pulling that poo poo for more than a decade is not at all harmful, also it's happening in a vacuum where she isn't a fan of a nutjob couple who run a blog that's nothing but "I witnessed a brown man looking furtively and talking loudly on the phone, I was scared for my life" type poo poo, also they think the EU conspired with Arab dictators to covertly colonise Europe through immigration. You have some valid points. I don't follow politics close enough to say anything about the moral fortitude of Støjbjerg, or her history. However, I still think we have a major problem if certain religions or certain behaviours cannot be criticised, if the people doing the criticising are higher on some arbitrary ladder than the people being criticised. When what you are playing is identity politics, yeah there will certainly be faux moral outrage and victims everywhere. Is being muslim equal to being a certain race? No. It means you follow the religion of Islam. Can you hate on muslims while being racist? Certainly, but that does not make the first question true. It is important to keep the identity fuckery out of it, unless you desire ending up in a place where ideas cannot be criticised.
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May 23, 2018 08:01
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Rnr posted:I do not want or intend to fight capitalism, that would be foolish. And I very much disagree that buying a house for 600k and having it appreciate to 1,7m does not make you richer, it certainly does, through no prowess of your own. What you spend that ill gotten gain on is up to you, banks will issue loans to you based on that security, you should try it. So you don't intend to fight the root cause of the problem, you just want to spread poo poo out and hope that the problem fixes itself? Yeah, no, I don't think that's going to work our very well.
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May 23, 2018 08:06
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Potrzebie posted:They have gone from "alla ska med" to "-unless you are new here and also a brown; then gently caress you". Also they've basically accepted SDs view of the world, while failing to realise that SD will always be "better" at the intolerance and racism game. None of that is actual anything. This election cycle, Socialdemokraterna have spent more ink on concrete changes to Allianens 2008 work visa system to look tough on immigration, since that's already a distasteful form of immigration with Swedish Swedes, and the one that accounts for the smallest share of immigrations. Their integration (!) policy suggestions only extend to a subset of a subset of immigrants who are on socialen and don't have a partner to support them. At no point have they suggested coupling integration requirements to citizenship (they already possess the legal grounds for introducing this as a matter of policy tmw). Nor have they decided to go Full Dublin on all asylum seekers coming here from countries other than Denmark, Norway and Finland -- again, with legal grounds. Again, what has S actually done?
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May 23, 2018 08:23
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Immigration poicy is actually kinda immaterial. The real problem with S is the problem of most every socdem party in western europe, i.e. that they don't realize that it isn't the 90s anymore and Tjock-Göran cosplay ain't gonna cut it nowadays.
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May 23, 2018 09:09
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Cerebral Bore posted:So you don't intend to fight the root cause of the problem, you just want to spread poo poo out and hope that the problem fixes itself? Yeah, no, I don't think that's going to work our very well. If you say capitalism is the root cause of our problems (which is a pretty precarious stance already), I assume you want to replace it with something? With what exactly? A regulated market economy is the best we currently have. When we find something better, by all means, let's go for it.
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May 23, 2018 10:29
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