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its the same as their "we can't add women elves to units cause we'd have to do sexy hip sway walks" thing
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May 22, 2018 19:37
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Gejnor posted:No they were riding side-saddle on Pegasuses, as did bretonnian ladies and uh.. why am i bringing this up again please forget i said anything no no don't read this forget you saw it please no! NO! N- WELL ACTUALLY
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May 22, 2018 19:38
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nopantsjack posted:Yeah I'm just saying that's the formula. GW says that there are many women in the faction in the lore then just doesn't model them. Fish Elves are a little bit on the right track. Both of their basic troop choices and mounted units have a mix of male and female bodies and it's hard to tell on their mounted units 'coz their armour doesn't have tiddyplate. Still not perfect, as it's roughly a 6-4 mix favouring dudes and the only female character is the mage. But GW works on two year cycles and it's already a push in the right direction. Also I'm firmly starting to believe that Total War: AoS might be a thing with how much GW's throwing behind it recently.
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May 22, 2018 20:09
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The eternal problem with AoS is the lore started out just awful AND it blew up a beloved setting. So it's working uphill to get people to care about it. There have actually been some good models, like I actually like the new Morathi, even if her naga form continues the recent trend of GW of how the gently caress do you transport this monstrosity and not have it break? Their original models suffered from the way too many fiddly bits and just were too busy, but they've toned that back and yeah, a lot of stuff looks okay now. I'm still mad about losing the Old World and always will be though.
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May 22, 2018 20:12
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Eimi posted:The eternal problem with AoS is the lore started out just awful AND it blew up a beloved setting. So it's working uphill to get people to care about it. There have actually been some good models, like I actually like the new Morathi, even if her naga form continues the recent trend of GW of how the gently caress do you transport this monstrosity and not have it break? Their original models suffered from the way too many fiddly bits and just were too busy, but they've toned that back and yeah, a lot of stuff looks okay now. AOS is just too far removed from anything resembling reality to be relatable imo. At least 40K has the IG. Plus I just don't like most of its model design, it's all kind of generic, D&D high fantasy you'd see anywhere else VS the concept of "Landrecht vs Ancient Alien Aztec Lizardman" you'd get in Warhammer.
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May 22, 2018 20:21
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Eimi posted:The eternal problem with AoS is the lore started out just awful AND it blew up a beloved setting. So it's working uphill to get people to care about it. There have actually been some good models, like I actually like the new Morathi, even if her naga form continues the recent trend of GW of how the gently caress do you transport this monstrosity and not have it break? Their original models suffered from the way too many fiddly bits and just were too busy, but they've toned that back and yeah, a lot of stuff looks okay now. I kinda like the sea elves, although i don't think they look like a coherent faction but undersea hoplites shooting a ballista from the back of a shark is cool. oh and octopus mage is a really nice model. 100% agreed on the awful, awful lore (and names... and rules) and that nearly every character model looks like its designed to break. like check out this guy. those fish are gonna break off within a day of you even thinking about playing with him.  or this guy, the bottom of his cape would break long before I ever finished painting him  also a lot of the new models don't look very fun to paint, they're too fiddly and detailed, the exception is octopus bro here who is my friend. although hes £20 somehow  I'd still play TW:Sigmar though
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May 22, 2018 20:33
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So is the octopus his secretary or what?
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May 22, 2018 20:39
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Mordja posted:AOS is just too far removed from anything resembling reality to be relatable imo. At least 40K has the IG. Plus I just don't like most of its model design, it's all kind of generic, D&D high fantasy you'd see anywhere else VS the concept of "Landrecht vs Ancient Alien Aztec Lizardman" you'd get in Warhammer. I'm pretty sure the extent of their thought process was: "Space marines sell very well, lets find a way to put them into fantasy."
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May 22, 2018 20:41
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Mordja posted:AOS is just too far removed from anything resembling reality to be relatable imo. At least 40K has the IG. Plus I just don't like most of its model design, it's all kind of generic, D&D high fantasy you'd see anywhere else VS the concept of "Landrecht vs Ancient Alien Aztec Lizardman" you'd get in Warhammer. Yeah basically, it's just HeMan esque fantasy, while trying to shoehorn in the Grimdarkness of 40k. And I mean, I like 40k aesthetically but I never found it that compelling narativelly. Like the sheer scale of things in 40k are meant to convey how dark things are, but it also makes it hard to care about this general and this planet being destroyed or whatever. The Imperium has more. Meanwhile it's easy to care about Tabacland or Tor Yvresse or Karak Kadrin or what have you because it's an actual place with history and stakes in it. (No matter how many times they get sacked  )
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May 22, 2018 20:41
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Eimi posted:Meanwhile it's easy to care about Tabacland or Tor Yvresse or Karak Kadrin or what have you because it's an actual place with history and stakes in it. (No matter how many times they get sacked Also the fact that you can look at the map and see that it's located in Not-Germany or Not-Spain makes it easier to visualize and see it as a real place.
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May 22, 2018 20:44
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Dramicus posted:Also the fact that you can look at the map and see that it's located in Not-Germany or Not-Spain makes it easier to visualize and see it as a real place. AOS is still just a bunch of floating island dimensions or something, right?
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May 22, 2018 20:46
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It's like reality balls in space around a glorious city that's also a star and there's a giant dragon or something.  (this is less dumb than the real thing)
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May 22, 2018 20:51
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Eimi posted:It's like reality balls in space around a glorious city that's also a star and there's a giant dragon or something. It's entirely composed of stuff that was retconned out of 40k 30 years ago for being too stupid. Though the sea elves look kinda neat, I think they could have fit in fantasy well enough.
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May 22, 2018 20:54
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the AoS rules are honestly fine, it’s more the fact that they scrapped over a quarter century of developing a setting for a brand new one, so it’s an uphill battle to get people invested in it again
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May 22, 2018 20:57
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Scrub-Niggurath posted:the AoS rules are honestly fine, it’s more the fact that they scrapped over a quarter century of developing a setting for a brand new one, so it’s an uphill battle to get people invested in it again The AoS rules gave up the strongest selling point of Warhammer Fantasy though: that it's a tactical game of rank-and-file formations mixed with magic and monsters. Now it's just skirmish mode moshpit. Releasing without a points system was also super dumb. Every wargame should have a points system (or some equal alternative) to allow for pick up games
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May 22, 2018 21:18
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Kaza42 posted:Releasing without a points system was also super dumb. Every wargame should have a points system (or some equal alternative) to allow for pick up games How did that work anyways? Whoever bought the more models could field the bigger army?
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May 22, 2018 21:22
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Mordja posted:How did that work anyways? Whoever bought the more models could field the bigger army? If you brought fewer models, you got an extra win condition. A goblin was "worth" the same as Nagash in the system, but RAW it got even dumber than that. You could bring terrain as part of your army, so you could ensure that there was a forest or a tower or whatever. IIRC, one of the bonus win conditions was "If your opponent hasn't killed enough of your army after X turns you win". So just bring a hill, pick that bonus condition and then win after your opponent can't kill a hill. Obviously nobody would actually do this, and you may as well not even pretend to play the game, but since the game sucked so badly "not playing the game" was hardly a bad choice.
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May 22, 2018 21:28
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Mordja posted:How did that work anyways? Whoever bought the more models could field the bigger army? No whoever had Kairos Fateweaver and a Screaming Bell won. You see, there were no army restrictions. Kairos had a once per game ability to just make any dice roll whatever you said it was, even if that wasn't possible. The Screaming Bell had a rule that said if you rolled a 13 on 2d6 you won the game. So if you went first with those two... Another smash hit was recursive terrain. You see rules as written terrain counted as a unit. So you could have an all terrain army. And then you could put all the terrain inside other terrain. So unless your opponent had Kairos and a Bell, they couldn't win because your army was terrain and not able to be attacked. Edit: This doesn't even get into the horribly cringy rules for the old armies if you wanted to play anything that wasn't Khorne Bloodbound Bloodpriest Bloodslaughter Bloodsecrators or Sigmarines. Eimi fucked around with this message at 21:33 on May 22, 2018 |
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May 22, 2018 21:28
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Amazing.
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May 22, 2018 21:33
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I meant more the battle system but yeah the absence of points and restrictions was dumb as gently caress
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May 22, 2018 21:46
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Scrub-Niggurath posted:I meant more the battle system but yeah the absence of points and restrictions was dumb as gently caress Still, what's the point of switching to the 40k battle system when fans of Fantasy were there specifically for the rank and file system? Why take something unique from 40k and make it into something that looks like a vague knockoff of 40k just with bows instead of bolters.
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May 22, 2018 21:48
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hurr blurr derp
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May 22, 2018 21:49
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Bloodsecrator and bloodsecutioner are pretty high up in my "holy gently caress just look at those!" list and just lead to laughing every time I think of them. They're so great.
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May 22, 2018 21:50
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The one, and only, good part of the AoS release was Settra having a special rule where if you - the player - ever kneel at any point in the game you instantly lose
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May 22, 2018 21:51
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Eimi posted:Edit: This doesn't even get into the horribly cringy rules for the old armies if you wanted to play anything that wasn't Khorne Bloodbound Bloodpriest Bloodslaughter Bloodsecrators or Sigmarines. Do tell.
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May 22, 2018 21:52
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Eimi posted:even if her naga form continues the recent trend of GW of how the gently caress do you transport this monstrosity and not have it break? Pins. Pins everywhere.
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May 22, 2018 21:55
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Stoat posted one of them, but off the top of my head, there were bonuses if you had a mustache, if you would crazily talk to yourself, if you had a prop skull, I'm pretty sure Pestilins had a rule about you not showering  . It was a bunch of bullshit to make the old factions as embarrassing as possible to play.
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May 22, 2018 21:55
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Did the Sigmarines have any stuff like that?
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May 22, 2018 21:58
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Dramicus posted:Did the Sigmarines have any stuff like that? Of course not. Just the Old World factions. Chaos got off lite because of it, but for a while the only factions that were just treated as game pieces were Sigmarines and Khorne.
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May 22, 2018 22:00
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quote:The Mad Count: Marius Leitdorf is an  What the gently caress. Dramicus fucked around with this message at 22:07 on May 22, 2018 |
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May 22, 2018 22:05
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AOS is actually really good now for what that's worth
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May 22, 2018 22:07
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Gay Horney posted:AOS is actually really good now for what that's worth Rulewise, so I hear, but I still dislike everything else about it. And since I don't actually play TT, keep AOS out of my Total Wars. 
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May 22, 2018 22:10
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Dramicus posted:Did the Sigmarines have any stuff like that? no if you bought the new armies you had proper rules (which in sigmar range from warmachine style buff synergies to "roll 30 dice, that many guys die" which is the mortal wounds system, everything is now based on mortal wounds which are auto-wounds. every dps spell, warmachine, ability is basically roll xd6 mortal wounds) the rules for the old armies were barely thought out and basically meant to be amusing send-offs of beloved old models but understandably rubbed people pretty raw now that your whole collection was basically jokes they've done all this to 40k now too afaik rulewise, barring the trash joke rules. I don't know how that went down, the 40k thread seems to like them but the 40k thread reminds me a bit of a TCC thread tbh e: FWIW fantasy was a trash-fire of rules when AoS killed it, but AoS is not a streamlined fantasy, its a totally different game. Gay Horney posted:AOS is actually really good now for what that's worth I'd be interested to hear why the rules are now good, I've been hearing that since they added points back but I kinda dont beleive it lol but I don't play it so what do i know Communist Thoughts fucked around with this message at 22:15 on May 22, 2018 |
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May 22, 2018 22:12
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Gay Horney posted:AOS is actually really good now for what that's worth No. AoS is now functional. It's still an inferior 40k 8th edition, and 40k is not a "really good" game by any stretch of the definition.
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May 22, 2018 22:12
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Gay Horney posted:AOS is actually really good now for what that's worth MAYBE second edition will fix some stuff, but it'll still be AoS.
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May 22, 2018 22:12
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the launch of sigmar and the turmoil in the fantasy thread was one of the funniest times in SA imo, similar to star citizen or whatever. Its kinda a shame that it all died down cause it was really hilarious. Everybody was actually looking forward to a big overhaul cause fantasy was kinda hosed and it just kept getting worse with every detail. I wasn't too invested cause I hadn't played in ages but I was looking forward to it and... man it was just really funny. Fat fantasy-marines > You have to rebase everything > 6 pages of nonsensical rules > Old army joke rules > No points, everything on model count > Bretonnia is dead > Khorne Bloodbound Bloodblade Warband Bloodsecrator (this is not made up) Last I looked the new AoS thread is just people asking which guys to buy and listing their collections like the 40k thread.
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May 22, 2018 22:21
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uber_stoat posted:hurr blurr derp This makes me glad I never tried table top, inches, complex subjective rules, lol and lol.
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May 22, 2018 22:23
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1st_Panzer_Div. posted:This makes me glad I never tried table top, inches, complex subjective rules, lol and lol. what you think rolling 4 dice twice then handing the resultant dice to your opponent to save roll with the rend modifier is too much to account for for a single knight trying to hit someone with a lance? e oh and 2 of the dice have different target numbers and don't modify the save roll because they're horsie hooves, simple
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May 22, 2018 22:26
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Sigmar is pretty good now and the 2nd Ed changes they've announced are pretty even better. TW: Sigmar could be pretty interesting, especially with the canonical maps of each realm they teased. A different campaign for each realm with different conditions and gimmicks in play would be sweet.
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May 22, 2018 22:40
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AOS Squatted the Tomb Kings, for that it can never be forgiven.
Mordja fucked around with this message at 23:36 on May 22, 2018 |
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May 22, 2018 23:27
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