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Krispy Wafer posted:Yeah, but for some reason famous people during the 50's, 60's, and 70's could have their uncomfortable proclivities swept under the rug. You literally had to rape a child and then flee the country to get labeled a creep and even then you were still considered a very talented creep. age of consent was irrelevant because if you were, say, a madman of the motor city variety, and you met some prepubescent pacific islander child you wished to rape but drats! even those heathens think 12 is a *bit* young! there was a very simple way to realize your dream: simply pay the literal childs parents to sign over custody rights to you! now you're her legal guardian! and as any stepdad can tell you, the step stands for "step right up, fella it's rape o'clock"
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May 23, 2018 00:17
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speaking of Ted Nugent adopting a child specifically for rapin', I'm watching Fawlty Towers and mostly it has aged so well, like a fine wine, or an "opposite of the stuff nugent likes to rape", but the thing that really stands out is how ppl are like "wow what a retarded dago spic" when Manuel has trouble understanding English. like they're always depicted as jerks and Manuel despite his language difficulties is a good guy and very clever and bright in his own way, but it's still so jarring to hear slurs like that just tossed around Willy nilly like it's no No Biggie
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May 23, 2018 00:25
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I don't think they ever said spic did they? I know they said dago a bunch.
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May 23, 2018 00:58
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Krispy Wafer posted:Sure, it's been a thing, but it's not exactly common knowledge. If you asked 10 people how Rockwell made his illustrations, I'm not entirely sure any of them would answer correctly. Fair enough. Just thought I'd share and didn't mean to lecture or anything. We're off topic a bit but to relate it to TV a little, I'm still amazed at a lot of the TV Guide illustrations that artists were able to pull off before you could just Google what someone looked like. Also, Wide World of Sports has aged great. Never get tired of Evil Knievel breaking every bone in his body. In a lot of ways, that was the original "reality TV"
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May 23, 2018 01:47
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BiggerBoat posted:Also, Wide World of Sports has aged great. Never get tired of Evil Knievel breaking every bone in his body. In a lot of ways, that was the original "reality TV" Him and the "Agony of Defeat" guy.
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May 23, 2018 02:12
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Gatekeeper posted:speaking of Ted Nugent adopting a child specifically for rapin', I'm watching Fawlty Towers and mostly it has aged so well, like a fine wine, or an "opposite of the stuff nugent likes to rape", but the thing that really stands out is how ppl are like "wow what a retarded dago spic" when Manuel has trouble understanding English. like they're always depicted as jerks and Manuel despite his language difficulties is a good guy and very clever and bright in his own way, but it's still so jarring to hear slurs like that just tossed around Willy nilly like it's no No Biggie Are you watching it on Netflix? Have they left in the Major's "all cricketers are niggers" bit from The Germans? The BBC started cutting it out during TV showings a few years ago, with the predictable outcry about airbrushing history from the papers.
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May 23, 2018 02:27
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BiggerBoat posted:Nah...This has been pretty common for a LONG time. I have a degree in illustration from before computers were even really a thing. We used projectors and photo reference all the time. Xerox machines...collage...and you still have to know how to draw at least a little bit to even be able trace effectively, believe it or not. Things that a lot of people consider "cheating" aren't or were at a time considered trade secrets. Like using that "literally trace a thing that is alive" is a technique in animation. It's called rotoscoping. Instead of animating 3D models by hand motion capture is used a hell of a lot. If you take actual art classes they tell you that using a reference is a very good idea. Speaking of 3D modeling and animation it's a common technique to draw something face on, draw it from the side, and then basically use those to "trace" the model in 3D. This idea of "you have to do things totally from memory or you're a lovely artist" is utter nonsense. As far as art goes it isn't the tools you use that matters it's how you use them. Then again in the case of Normal Rockwell he actually never considered himself an artist. He thought of himself as an illustrator. It's interesting that he became considered a prime example of Americana and is thought of as an artist given that that was never the intent at all.
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May 23, 2018 02:30
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Gatekeeper posted:speaking of Ted Nugent adopting a child specifically for rapin', I'm watching Fawlty Towers and mostly it has aged so well, like a fine wine, or an "opposite of the stuff nugent likes to rape", but the thing that really stands out is how ppl are like "wow what a retarded dago spic" when Manuel has trouble understanding English. like they're always depicted as jerks and Manuel despite his language difficulties is a good guy and very clever and bright in his own way, but it's still so jarring to hear slurs like that just tossed around Willy nilly like it's no No Biggie Not to mention Basil constantly physically abusing him. Again, Basil is supposed to be a terrible person and most of the humor is watching him get his comeuppance but it's pretty crazy watching this pretentious twat beating Manuel over the head and people being just like eh whatever.
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May 23, 2018 03:10
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Horace posted:Are you watching it on Netflix? Have they left in the Major's "all cricketers are niggers" bit from The Germans? The BBC started cutting it out during TV showings a few years ago, with the predictable outcry about airbrushing history from the papers. I haven't watched it on Netflix, but it was on PBS for a long while which is where I watched it as a kid (early-mid 2000's). I don't remember that line specifically, but there was another one involving the Major that in hindsight I'm surprised wasn't cut, I think it was the episode where Basil won some money on horses and didn't want his wife to find out? Anyway, he tells this story about one time when he had to correct his travelling companion's choice of racial slur.
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May 23, 2018 04:14
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I watched the Germans episode on Netflix last weekend and can confirm the Major drops some N-bombs.
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May 23, 2018 05:21
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catlord posted:I haven't watched it on Netflix, but it was on PBS for a long while which is where I watched it as a kid (early-mid 2000's). I don't remember that line specifically, but there was another one involving the Major that in hindsight I'm surprised wasn't cut, I think it was the episode where Basil won some money on horses and didn't want his wife to find out? Anyway, he tells this story about one time when he had to correct his travelling companion's choice of racial slur. That's the one. IIRC the audience doesn't react to the 'punchline', making it even more awkward to watch.
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May 23, 2018 12:16
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8s4BqzHEK6o Make of it what you choose.
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May 23, 2018 12:30
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Gatekeeper posted:age of consent was irrelevant because if you were, say, a madman of the motor city variety, and you met some prepubescent pacific islander child you wished to rape but drats! even those heathens think 12 is a *bit* young! there was a very simple way to realize your dream: simply pay the literal childs parents to sign over custody rights to you! now you're her legal guardian! and as any stepdad can tell you, the step stands for "step right up, fella it's rape o'clock" The 70's as a whole are a weird time when you start looking at it 40 years on. It looked a lot like a "modern" decade, but it really was the end of the old era. Women were becoming independent, cities were pulling more and more people out of rural areas, white people were moving out of cities to new suburbs as the interstate system was being built, and life expectancy was going up.
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May 23, 2018 14:24
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SpacePig posted:I wonder if people were this angry once books were able to be mass produced. Why are you looking in a goddamn newfangled book for how to draw? Why don't you just go outside and learn to draw from the old masters? Stupid idiot kids. Idiots get angry and defensive about every new thing. Bicycles were considered a threat to family values because they let kids get farther away from their parents and into trouble faster than just walking. FarmerTed posted:What the hell's that? A bicycle? It's cheaper'n a horse? It's so easy to use my sweet daughter could ride it? No, I don't want one a those devil contraptions! My girl could ride it down to the road to the Smith farm and you know Smitty Jr only wants one thing and it's loving disgusting.
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May 23, 2018 16:14
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Straight White Shark posted:Not to mention Basil constantly physically abusing him. Again, Basil is supposed to be a terrible person and most of the humor is watching him get his comeuppance but it's pretty crazy watching this pretentious twat beating Manuel over the head and people being just like eh whatever. John Cleese had said he was shocked when he found out that viewers liked Basil, since Basil is an absolutely horrible person. He reasoned that since Basil made the viewers laugh, they were more open to be sympathetic to him. He also talked about an episode idea that he and Connie had about the Fawltys going on vacation to Spain to stay with Manuel's family. It was set in the airport, and on the plane, and how things kept delaying the take-off, frustrating Basil further and further. Eventually it would end with someone attempting to hijack the plane, and Basil snaps, attacking the hijacker, and successfully wrestling the gun away from him. The crew and passengers cheer at Basil's bravery and heroism. And then Basil hijacks the plane, demanding the plane leave for Spain. The episode would end with Basil in a Spanish prison.
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May 23, 2018 16:14
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Davros1 posted:John Cleese had said he was shocked when he found out that viewers liked Basil, since Basil is an absolutely horrible person. He reasoned that since Basil made the viewers laugh, they were more open to be sympathetic to him. Yeah the characters don't really work outside the hotel. Sounds like an idea ('John Cleese irked by delays and misfortune to his otherwise regimented timetable and becoming more manic and physically aggressive') that would eventually morph into Clockwise.
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May 23, 2018 17:45
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Iron Crowned posted:The 70's as a whole are a weird time when you start looking at it 40 years on. It looked a lot like a "modern" decade, but it really was the end of the old era. Women were becoming independent, cities were pulling more and more people out of rural areas, white people were moving out of cities to new suburbs as the interstate system was being built, and life expectancy was going up. It was insanely weird. I was around for the birth of cable TV and got to see naked ladies if I could figure out a way to stay up that late at the age of 9 or 10 and people saying "gently caress" on my TV that used to only have 5 channels that were mostly filled with cartoons or Japanese rubber monsters. All in the Family, Maude, MASH, Mary Tyler Moore, Good Times, The Jeffersons, The Six Million Dollar Man, SOAP, Taxi, and films like Saturday Night Fever, Serpico, Dog Day Afternoon, Midnight Cowboy, Apocalypse Now, The Deer Hunter and Taxi Driver really capture the essence of the 70's - all in very different ways. I was born 1967 so  I hit puberty during Reagan and was almost able to physically witness first hand the baton being passed from the hippies, to the lost and disaffected after Nixon and Watergate , through Carter's naive optimism straight through to neon clad wrestlers hawking Slim Jims , supply side economics, false patriotism and, ultimately, the yuppies who essentially gave us what we have now and who set the table for the 2008 financial crash. The 70's were basically aimless, flailing and desperate, which is reflected in the pop culture we're discussing, until the 80's came along and reminded us that, yes, it is indeed all about money after all and re-centered the dial. I got to see the idealism of the 60's give way to the aimlessness of the 70's and the full on consumerism of the 80's in real time. Cocaine and speed supplanted weed and L.S.D. Now we all take legally prescribed pain killers so we're back to heroin only now it's above board. Painkillers are to the the 2010's what diet pills were to the 80's. It's hard to say the best things that came out of the 70's but there was some really good TV, music and film through all the bullshit and a lot of it has aged really well.
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May 23, 2018 18:23
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BiggerBoat posted:It's hard to say the best things that came out of the 70's but there was some really good TV, music and film through all the bullshit and a lot of it has aged really well. Wasn't the New Hollywood era of filmmaking at it's peak in the 70's?
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May 23, 2018 18:52
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Fawlty Towers and birth of cable discussion reminds me of the first time I saw breasts sexualized on TV. Not in some schlocky horror film, but on a PBS-aired britcom about a newspaper office. They schemed to increase readership and at the top of the episode a bored-looking topless woman demonstrated shake versus bounce while the paper managers blandly discussed which would be more effective for their latest feature: a full-page 3D image complete with the old blue/red glasses. Sounds like absolute horseshit but I swear it's true, but I can't remember the name of the show and I kind of don't want to. I have no idea if the rest of the show was like that with overt sexual gags but even as a kid I felt it was weirdly out of place.
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May 23, 2018 19:44
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My wife has been reading The Little House on the Prarie to my daughters at bedtime and they sure are tough on the Red man!
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May 23, 2018 20:21
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SUPERMAN'S GAL PAL posted:Fawlty Towers and birth of cable discussion reminds me of the first time I saw breasts sexualized on TV. Not in some schlocky horror film, but on a PBS-aired britcom about a newspaper office. They schemed to increase readership and at the top of the episode a bored-looking topless woman demonstrated shake versus bounce while the paper managers blandly discussed which would be more effective for their latest feature: a full-page 3D image complete with the old blue/red glasses. Sounds like absolute horseshit but I swear it's true, but I can't remember the name of the show and I kind of don't want to. I have no idea if the rest of the show was like that with overt sexual gags but even as a kid I felt it was weirdly out of place. Drop the Dead Donkey? It was about a tv news station though.
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May 23, 2018 20:45
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Elder goon here. My first TV tittays was also on PBS - Monty Python in the mid 70's. Fun fact: seeing your first TV tittays is not as much fun when your mom is watching the show with you. But even after a few topless episodes, she never banned me from watching it.
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May 23, 2018 21:22
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bitterandtwisted posted:Drop the Dead Donkey? That was my first thought too. I did some digging: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SPix1ACxH6o&t=7s https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0090453/episodes?season=1&ref_=tt_eps_sn_1 quote:Twiggy Rathbone's Daily Crucible is determined to keep abreast of the competition and Page Three is an outstanding target area. Meanwhile, young reporter Bill Tytla unearths the first clues to an international scandal bigger than anything Russell Spam could ever dream up.
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May 23, 2018 21:42
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Davros1 posted:John Cleese had said he was shocked when he found out that viewers liked Basil, since Basil is an absolutely horrible person. He reasoned that since Basil made the viewers laugh, they were more open to be sympathetic to him. One of the really, really bizarre things about fictional characters is that if you make somebody that's utterly abhorrent, has no redeeming qualities at all, and is bad enough that the cops would give you a pass if you literally murdered them is that they become everybody's favorite. I've heard of it referred to as the Bill the Cat effect. Berkeley Breathed created Bill the Cat to be a character that was so absolutely repulsive that he had absolutely no merchandising potential. The character was basically a piece of anti-marketing. Literally the whole point of Bill the Cat was to be completely and totally reviled; liked by nobody. Instead he became everybody's favorite character and has sold a gently caress ton of merchandising. Think about Aqua Teen Hunger Force. Everybody likes Carl. Even though if he was a real person and lived next to you you'd hate every minute of it when you put him in a fictional show he becomes everybody's favorite. I think it has to do with taking refuge in absurdity; if you make a character that's just impossibly awful people tend to like them.
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May 24, 2018 02:35
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ToxicSlurpee posted:Think about Aqua Teen Hunger Force. Everybody likes Carl. Even though if he was a real person and lived next to you you'd hate every minute of it when you put him in a fictional show he becomes everybody's favorite. I think it has to do with taking refuge in absurdity; if you make a character that's just impossibly awful people tend to like them. Carl is not the worst individual on ATHF. He's constantly dumped on by everyone. He wants to be a badass, but the only time he really got to live out that dream was Larry Miller Hair System. Everyone else just clown him (once literally). Shake or Frylock are the worst. Shake has no redeeming qualities, but is an idiot. Frylock is on the surface is good, but is also the one who became a murdering stalker who wore the decaying body of the man he killed.
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May 24, 2018 02:51
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ToxicSlurpee posted:One of the really, really bizarre things about fictional characters is that if you make somebody that's utterly abhorrent, has no redeeming qualities at all, and is bad enough that the cops would give you a pass if you literally murdered them is that they become everybody's favorite. I've heard of it referred to as the Bill the Cat effect. 
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May 24, 2018 02:59
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Watterson and Breathed, as I understand it, are good friends and would regularly roast each other with cartoons like that one.
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May 24, 2018 03:19
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Oh for sure, I love Bloom County (which is currently running in new strips on his facebook page).
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May 24, 2018 03:31
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Gul Dukat is another example. The actor did such a good job with a complex character that people started really liking him despite him being Space Hitler, so they had to dial it past 11 to make sure people got that he was a loving villian
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May 24, 2018 04:07
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RC and Moon Pie posted:Carl is not the worst individual on ATHF. He's constantly dumped on by everyone. He wants to be a badass, but the only time he really got to live out that dream was Larry Miller Hair System. Everyone else just clown him (once literally). Shake or Frylock are the worst. Shake has no redeeming qualities, but is an idiot. Frylock is on the surface is good, but is also the one who became a murdering stalker who wore the decaying body of the man he killed. I'd say he is, really. Shake is too delusional to be truly terrible. He's very clearly severely wrong in the head and doesn't entirely understand his actions. Frylock is good most of the time he just, you know, has a few moments. Carl is just a relentlessly terrible and repugnant person in every way possible. The Bloop posted:Gul Dukat is another example. The actor did such a good job with a complex character that people started really liking him despite him being Space Hitler, so they had to dial it past 11 to make sure people got that he was a loving villian I think the other side of that one is that he was also fanatically loyal to Cardassia overall and was perfectly willing to go to any end to further their ends. I think in that case people started admiring his conviction and loyalty. The issue is that he was loyal to, you know, Cardassians and they're like you said...loving villains. They are not nice people.
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May 24, 2018 04:51
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The Bloop posted:Gul Dukat is another example. The actor did such a good job with a complex character that people started really liking him despite him being Space Hitler, so they had to dial it past 11 to make sure people got that he was a loving villian Well, he did have a whole season or so where he was working with the good guys and was a cool pirate rebel fighting the Klingon invaders, so it's not like the viewer sympathy came out of nowhere.
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May 24, 2018 04:54
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Also every bajoran on the show was thoroughly unlikable while dukat did a fantastic reasonable hitler routine
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May 24, 2018 04:55
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oldpainless posted:reasonable hitler I mean seriously though
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May 24, 2018 05:05
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oldpainless posted:Also every bajoran on the show was thoroughly unlikable while dukat did a fantastic reasonable hitler routine Yeah the Bajorans had the "be sympathetic to us" poo poo piled on waaaayyyyy too thick. "We were philosophers and scientists with a 25,000 year old civilization and then military invasion and concentration camps." "Every one of you is a turd."
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May 24, 2018 05:27
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MrUnderbridge posted:Elder goon here. My first TV tittays was also on PBS - Monty Python in the mid 70's. Fun fact: seeing your first TV tittays is not as much fun when your mom is watching the show with you. But even after a few topless episodes, she never banned me from watching it. Episode 1 of The Goodies, titties out of loving nowhere.
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May 24, 2018 05:29
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I recall a few quick flashes of TV titties on Benny Hill. God bless the British and their terrible television. First real TV titties was late 70’s watching Sexy Candid Camera on someone’s massive satellite dish. Like there’s Alan Funt and BOOBIES!
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May 24, 2018 06:26
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Canadian Goons might remember Bizarre which featured plenty of bare chests in between (and in) sketches. Fitting for the thread is the fact that apart from the Super Dave Osborne sketches, nothing else really comes to mind as holding up very well. Re-watching it is still a guilty pleasure though.
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May 24, 2018 08:49
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Krispy Wafer posted:I recall a few quick flashes of TV titties on Benny Hill. God bless the British and their terrible television. Fun fact: every one of Hill's Angels gave Benny Hill a handjob. (though, not all at the same time)
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May 24, 2018 09:21
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spog posted:Fun fact: every one of Hill's Angels gave Benny Hill a handjob. I know, given the nudie ladies and general misogynistic titillation of their shows, this may seem off. But I always thought Benny Hill was gay. Much like Kenny Everett, who, (I am imagining), flamed as hard as a flaming homosexual could flame.
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May 24, 2018 10:14
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RC and Moon Pie posted:Carl is not the worst individual on ATHF. He's constantly dumped on by everyone. He wants to be a badass, but the only time he really got to live out that dream was Larry Miller Hair System. Everyone else just clown him (once literally). Shake or Frylock are the worst. Shake has no redeeming qualities, but is an idiot. Frylock is on the surface is good, but is also the one who became a murdering stalker who wore the decaying body of the man he killed. There's also when he got the Foreigner Belt. Carl works because in a show about surreal black comedy nonsense he's a completely different flavour of mundane black comedy nonsense, and the constant collision just makes it all the funnier. Though I enjoyed watching him rant about American football. While the Aqua Teens have frequent amusing and often unsettling reminders that they're inhuman beings who don't really grasp human concepts (most of the time) while Carl is very recognisably human.
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May 24, 2018 11:07
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