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Bhodi posted:Man, I did not get this AT ALL. I don't remember any ayn rand ideals and the books make it clear he's an absolute failure at anything except ruthlessly killing people and ultimately he comes to that realization near the end of the series. He realizes what a hosed up system the world is right from the start although after he lucked his way up into power and authority he did absolutely nothing to help others after he got there. you have that spoiler bit exactly backwards Also the actual hero in Blade is Deliann and frankly it's so obvious I might complain about it if so freaking many people didn't miss the point and call the obviousness into question. 
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May 19, 2018 05:00
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I have a potentially weird request: I've been playing a bunch of Pyre lately, and I'm curious, are there any fantasy-ish novels out there similar to it? Not the magical purgatory football bit, more the setting and "style" I guess? My understanding is that it has some DNA in common with Dying Earth stuff, but I'm not sure how much, and I haven't really read any Dying Earth stuff myself.
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May 19, 2018 05:05
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Bhodi posted:Man, I did not get this AT ALL. I don't remember any ayn rand ideals and the books make it clear he's an absolute failure at anything except ruthlessly killing people and ultimately he comes to that realization near the end of the series. He realizes what a hosed up system the world is right from the start although after he lucked his way up into power and authority he did absolutely nothing to help others after he got there. Matthew Stover posted:BLADE OF TYSHALLE is itself my Cainist Philosophy book. Unlike Ms Rand, Cainism is descriptive, not prescriptive. It's not about how people should live, it's about how they do live, whether they want to or not. Caine's just the most extreme case . . . if you see what I mean.
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May 19, 2018 05:16
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He also probably thought the main character was a hero. I had forgotten that whole cainist thing because it didn't even make sense in the world he himself wrote so it just sort of slid off my memory.
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May 19, 2018 05:19
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Bhodi posted:He also probably thought the main character was a hero. I had forgotten that whole cainist thing because it didn't even make sense in the world he himself wrote so it just sort of slid off my memory. Blade of Tyshalle is really cringey, and you made me go digging for a blog quote and it's all coming back now, heh.
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May 19, 2018 05:22
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BananaNutkins posted:Blade of Tyshalle is really cringey, and you made me go digging for a blog quote and it's all coming back now, heh.
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May 19, 2018 05:25
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Bhodi posted:But hey, cool fight scenes! It never really felt that preachy to me, mostly because that rambling philosophy was voiced through a clear and unrepentant rear end in a top hat whose only two positive personality traits were force of will and blind self-belief bordering on delusion. It was clear that Stover was passionate about the ideas and had a story to tell, which lent the whole thing a kind of manic energy throughout. It's more readable than the Terry Goodkind books with bad hero doing bad things which are actually really good because only a really good person can be bad rear end enough to do bad things for good. Its a mentality that is very persuasive to faux martial arts wannabe tough guys.
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May 19, 2018 05:32
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Bhodi posted:But hey, cool fight scenes! It never really felt that preachy to me, mostly because that rambling philosophy was voiced through a clear and unrepentant rear end in a top hat whose only two positive personality traits were force of will and blind self-belief bordering on delusion. And through his self-appointed quasi-prophet who was actually a fairly decent person, all things considered, and fully aware that Caine himself was orthogonal to morality at best (from her perspective / at that time). As such, she quite clearly enunciated that Cainism was orthogonal to morality, and more resembling a self-help book. I'm pleased this discussion has taken off and I see I'll have to make an effortpost about the first two books and who the actual heroes are. for a spoiler on the latter bit, you may wish to reference the title of book one Yes, I know I already mentioned the Main One.
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May 19, 2018 06:39
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GreyjoyBastard posted:I'm pleased this discussion has taken off and I see I'll have to make an effortpost about the first two books and who the actual heroes are. for a spoiler on the latter bit, you may wish to reference the title of book one Please do, I really enjoy Stover's books, I'm just not a Smart and have a hard time analyzing literature.
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May 19, 2018 19:19
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His first two Star Wars novels were, as Star Wars novels go, genuinely interesting criticisms of the setting (which kind of presaged the milder self-critique in Last Jedi). The idea that war is a gigantic Jedi trap, since it forces them into situations where they're morally confused, spiritually blind, and unable to act without in some way compromising their ideals, was either cleverer than the prequels or at least better at voicing what the movies leave to subtext.
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May 19, 2018 20:10
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The first time I read Heroes Die & Blade of Tyshalle, I got a vague sense of RW/Objectivist politics from it. After reading the last two then re-reading the first two again, it's more anti-authoritarian, anarco-all-over-the-place. The last book makes it clear that the two things that piss Caine off the most are a) authoritarianism, and b) those with power that either use it to hurt others/benefit themselves, or have power and refuse to help those in need.
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May 19, 2018 21:07
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General Battuta posted:His first two Star Wars novels were, as Star Wars novels go, genuinely interesting criticisms of the setting (which kind of presaged the milder self-critique in Last Jedi). The idea that war is a gigantic Jedi trap, since it forces them into situations where they're morally confused, spiritually blind, and unable to act without in some way compromising their ideals, was either cleverer than the prequels or at least better at voicing what the movies leave to subtext. I was a bit biased when I read the EU books but I think his takes on the Force and something that should be explored. I think that's why I really liked The Last Jedi since. It's been awhile since I read the Caine books but I don't remember too much of a Randian thing going on. I'll have to sit down and read them again one day.
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May 20, 2018 00:08
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MockingQuantum posted:I have a potentially weird request: I've been playing a bunch of Pyre lately, and I'm curious, are there any fantasy-ish novels out there similar to it? Not the magical purgatory football bit, more the setting and "style" I guess? Pyre is its own beast but I'd put it with Planescape: Torment and Morrowind in the New Weird. You might want to try Perdido Street Station (what I'd personally recommend), The Scar, City of Saints and Madmen, or Viriconium (which bridges Dying Earth and New Weird). I'll also throw in a recommendation for Lord of Light because while it's not related by genre it does deal with viewing people through the lens of mythology and ritual.
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May 20, 2018 06:52
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Audible is having a 2 for 1 sale, and there is some sf/fantasy there. Anyone heard of Jonathan Renshaw? He's got a book called Dawn of Wonder. Lot of good reviews, looks kinda generic (which I'm okay with if the writing doesn't suck). Also, so many reviews say they've only read Sanderson and Rothfuss. I'm not sure why that aggravates me so much.
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May 20, 2018 12:18
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Isn't it one of those litRPG things?
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May 20, 2018 12:42
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Dawn of Blunder.
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May 20, 2018 12:51
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anilEhilated posted:Isn't it one of those litRPG things? Is it? Well, never mind!
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May 20, 2018 13:00
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anilEhilated posted:Isn't it one of those litRPG things?
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May 20, 2018 13:17
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Finished the 29th annual Years Best Science Fiction Collection (2011) edited by Gardner Dozois, power-skimmed the scifi/fantasy anthology books I mentioned before AND also read a bunch of DragonLance books. The 29th annual Science Fiction collection was slightly different than early Dozois edited collections. Normally Dozois only included stories that were 40 - 50 pages long*, seeing anything shorter was like physically seeing a northern white rhinoceros in the wild. For the 2011 collection, 3 - 12 page stories were mostly included, which made the book roughly 2/3 the size of earlier editions. Ken MacLeod, Karl Schroeder, Carolyn Ives Gilman, Jay Lake, Michael Swanwick, Dave Hutchinson, Tom Purdom, Ian R. MacLeod, Yoon Ha Lee, Peter M. Ball, and Kij Johnson all had good stories in that collection. To my surprise, the DragonLance stories written by Margaret Weis & Tracy Hickman mostly stood up to my happy memories of first reading them. The DragonLance books suffering from dimishing returns with each new series, however the first 2 series were the strongest. This time around I noticed the Homeric stock descriptions for each W & T written character, which helped the reader visualize them & give clues to their future reactions to story events. Just let me add/drop this observations: Gary Gygax (TSR President) was Takhisis, Dave Arneson was Fizban, and Ed Greenwood was the armies of evil re-making the Dragonlance world into TSR's default setting the Forgotten Realms. *I've read around 20 of the Dozois edited collections, that story size limitation allowed for good stories to lose themselves, iffy stories to recover, and for bad authors, way way waaaay too much space. quantumfoam fucked around with this message at 16:27 on May 20, 2018 |
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May 20, 2018 16:21
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A Proper Uppercut posted:Audible is having a 2 for 1 sale, and there is some sf/fantasy there. Anyone heard of Jonathan Renshaw? He's got a book called Dawn of Wonder. Lot of good reviews, looks kinda generic (which I'm okay with if the writing doesn't suck). I liked the story a lot and no it's not a litRPG. As far as the comparison, it doesn't really feel like either of those authors very much so IDK why they would make it. Also, full disclosure I like Sanderson and don't like Rothfuss.
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May 20, 2018 19:06
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Microcline posted:I'll also throw in a recommendation for Lord of Light because while it's not related by genre it does deal with viewing people through the lens of mythology and ritual. You're definitely on the right track here. Zelazny's Jack of Shadows matches Pyre to a T because of the strange rituals and cultures that it shares with Lord of Light, the somewhat fallen setting, and the weird powers that everyone in the world seems to have.
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May 20, 2018 19:09
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A Proper Uppercut posted:Audible is having a 2 for 1 sale, and there is some sf/fantasy there. Anyone heard of Jonathan Renshaw? He's got a book called Dawn of Wonder. Lot of good reviews, looks kinda generic (which I'm okay with if the writing doesn't suck). I liked it. It's got nothing to do with litRPG. It's a bog-standard farmboy get's his village murdered and goes to a school where he learns to be a badass. Nothing really special but for summer reading I think it fits the bill. Also has some Narnia type heavy Christian influence.
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May 21, 2018 10:12
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Microcline posted:Pyre is its own beast but I'd put it with Planescape: Torment and Morrowind in the New Weird. You might want to try Perdido Street Station (what I'd personally recommend), The Scar, City of Saints and Madmen, or Viriconium (which bridges Dying Earth and New Weird). I've read PSS and never would have thought of it but you're totally correct that it's on the same lines. Same with The Scar. Haven't read City of Saints and Madmen or Viriconium, I'll definitely pick them up at some point, though for the latter I think I want to read some of the Jack Vance stuff first, since I've never read them. pospysyl posted:You're definitely on the right track here. Zelazny's Jack of Shadows matches Pyre to a T because of the strange rituals and cultures that it shares with Lord of Light, the somewhat fallen setting, and the weird powers that everyone in the world seems to have. That's awesome to hear, I love Lord of Light (and Zelazny in general) but Jack of Shadows is a new one to me. Putting that near the top of the list.
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May 21, 2018 17:15
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I think I found my next best example of terrible writing from a book/author that is reasonably well reviewed, The Prince of Fools by Mark Lawrence. Nothing all that wrong or bad about the story itself, the problem is that at least a quarter of the book is solely devoted to short story arcs that remind you the main character is a selfish womanizing bastard without any other real meaning or connection to the story (they're also not character building, it's litearlly the same circumstances copied over each time). It's almost like the author has no idea how to write a morally grey character and moves the story forward while making it seem like he's becoming "good" and then has to stop the story to write out a tale that reminds you he's not, then moves the story forward again, character does something contradictory to his nature, story has to stop and another vignette about how he's terrible, rinse and repeat. I had similar problems with the main character in his previous series but at least there were story hooks for that character to make sense, it's just completely pointless in this book. nessin fucked around with this message at 03:05 on May 22, 2018 |
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May 22, 2018 02:58
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king and emperor are better books, although if you couldn't find too much redeeming in the first book they're probably not worth your time. there's a more coherent structure and jorg is less irredeemably awful (still a oval office, though). king was the best, i think. i rolled my eyes a lot during prince as well since it felt like it was trying too hard.
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May 22, 2018 04:07
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Neurosis posted:king and emperor are better books, although if you couldn't find too much redeeming in the first book they're probably not worth your time. there's a more coherent structure and jorg is less irredeemably awful (still a oval office, though). king was the best, i think. i rolled my eyes a lot during prince as well since it felt like it was trying too hard. You're thinking of the Broken Empire series, his previous set. Prince of Fools is the start of his second series, the Red Queen's War.
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May 22, 2018 04:12
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nessin posted:You're thinking of the Broken Empire series, his previous set. Prince of Fools is the start of his second series, the Red Queen's War. Oops you are correct my bad
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May 22, 2018 07:16
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Is there a thread for the Broken Earth Trilogy? Sorry, phone posting and can’t search.
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May 22, 2018 16:53
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nessin posted:You're thinking of the Broken Empire series, his previous set. Prince of Fools is the start of his second series, the Red Queen's War. For a while I figured he;d done a trilogy of Prince of Fools, King of Fools and Emperor of Fools. Which would be an amazing show of self-awareness, if a bit lazy.
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May 22, 2018 17:22
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Look Sir Droids posted:Is there a thread for the Broken Earth Trilogy? Sorry, phone posting and can’t search. You're posting in it.
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May 22, 2018 17:44
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ToxicFrog posted:You're posting in it. Cool. Almost finished with book 1. Really enjoying.
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May 22, 2018 17:51
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There's actually a forum for books written in second person, present tense: FYAD
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May 22, 2018 21:02
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Finished James Blish's 4 book series Cities in Space. From start to finish they were all terrible. The first book was setup, introducing immortality drugs, antigravity technology, and FTL; all discovered + funded by a jesus like freshman US Senator from Alaska. The rest of the Cities in Space books actually had cities in space, but the books were 95% focused on the spaceborne-travelling city of New York New York, and it's adventures throughout the cosmos,
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May 23, 2018 01:45
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New Jeff strand book out! I'm on mobile or I'd link it. Called Bring Her Back.
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May 23, 2018 03:21
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It's always a bad warning sign when a book starts with a pronunciation guide, especially if it's a science fiction or fantasy book. Page four, the author has hammered home the main character is sixteen and knows sorcery AND is now in the process of learning witchcraft. ....gently caress this I'm out. 4 pages in and I am already feeling the main character is being funneled through a mary sue's worth of specialized training to justify how awesome(and unkillable) this main character is going to be. If anything, my recent James Blish's Cities in Spaces read-through confirmed that if a book starts off poo poo for you, it will probably stay poo poo as you continue to read the book.
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May 23, 2018 13:01
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NoNostalgia4Grover posted:It's always a bad warning sign when a book starts with a pronunciation guide, especially if it's a science fiction or fantasy book. What the gently caress are you reading?
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May 23, 2018 13:15
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hey thread Jemisin won a prestigous sci fi award again please point me to the nearest meltdowns k thnx
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May 23, 2018 13:16
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If it was 400 pages, I'd bet on Kingkiller.
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May 23, 2018 13:17
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Mel Mudkiper posted:hey thread Jemisin won a prestigous sci fi award again please point me to the nearest meltdowns k thnx She deserves what ever awards she gets, far as I'm concerned.
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May 23, 2018 14:49
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A Proper Uppercut posted:She deserves what ever awards she gets, far as I'm concerned. Oh I know but didn't her winning last time start the whole sad puppies meltdown. I want angry dweebs Show me the angry dweebs
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May 23, 2018 15:10
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