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Jose Valasquez posted:All languages and operating systems are garbage. Computers were a mistake Now you're speaking my framework.
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May 23, 2018 15:28
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Jose Valasquez posted:All languages and operating systems are garbage. Computers were a mistake "Paging Jose Valasquez, paging Jose Valasquez. Please report to YOSPOS, you belong here."
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May 23, 2018 15:34
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Jaded Burnout posted:How many Windows developers know what Homebrew is on a mac? IME most of the good ones. Just as they know what apt, pip, maven are, even if they do not use Linux, Python or Java. 
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May 23, 2018 15:37
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I guess I'm just lazy for not perusing Windows tooling blogs then.
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May 23, 2018 15:40
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JehovahsWetness posted:Congrats! If they're using GKE then you should be able to ramp up super fast if your Docker fundamentals are good. Yeah I'm all over Docker, so that should help me out. My tech hard-on is for poo poo like Consul/Vault and making everything immutable. Scala is new to me but I'm going to use my notice period to study hard. Jose Valasquez posted:All languages and operating systems are garbage. Computers were a mistake This but unironically - I recently did a presentation where I argued that your first response to a business need shouldn't be "write code", as each line you write adds risk. Servers are also stupid as you need at least 2 of them in case one shits the bed, or N+2 in multiple locations if you actually give a poo poo. But the reality of my career is that code exists, servers exist, and I should extract as much money as possible from people who need these things until I retire. Cancelbot fucked around with this message at 16:15 on May 23, 2018 |
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May 23, 2018 16:10
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Jaded Burnout posted:I guess I'm just lazy for not perusing Windows tooling blogs then. Regardless, nobody said poo poo about *you* until you jammed into the conversation. Initially, I was speaking only to folks who are literally limiting their career search based on specific misunderstandings about tooling. Who, you know, probably should confirm that stuff before lopping off industries. You're perfectly free to remain as ignorant of other platforms as you wish, go hog wild! The Fool posted:Have you looked at WSL since 1803? There are some updates that are supposed to improve file system interoperability specifically. I don't know if your specific pain is addressed though.
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May 23, 2018 16:49
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JawnV6 posted:Regardless, nobody said poo poo about *you* until you jammed into the conversation. Initially, I was speaking only to folks who are literally limiting their career search based on specific misunderstandings about tooling. Who, you know, probably should confirm that stuff before lopping off industries No, I was responding to you saying "any dev" should know about WSL. I followed it up by saying that I agreed anyone thinking of making the move into Windows from another platform should probably have made themselves aware of it.
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May 23, 2018 16:57
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Jaded Burnout posted:No, I was responding to you saying "any dev" should know about WSL. I followed it up by saying that I agreed anyone thinking of making the move into Windows from another platform should probably have made themselves aware of it. disengage... disengage... JawnV6 was clearly taking a shot at me which, if you keep up with this thread, you'd know he loves to do.
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May 23, 2018 17:01
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I'm not in the mood for someone selectively forgetting their own posts so they can paint me as the dickhead.
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May 23, 2018 17:02
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Good Will Hrunting posted:disengage... disengage... result: alcohol poisoning
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May 23, 2018 17:05
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Good Will Hrunting posted:I mean, joke all you want but I'm actually serious? I'm extremely comfortable with lots of *NIX tools that make my job infinitely easier on a daily basis. I can't imagine not having them. Just to reiterate this is, in no way (at least not as far as I can see) any sort of attack on Windows or any sort of "gently caress Windows never working there" type post, merely an invitation to discuss things like how much value I can actually provide in a Windows role versus non-Widows role at the moment (which is the point I was trying to make) and maybe ease some of my tension around switching. I don't lack imagination, I lack knowledge of making the transition and since this thread has "Change of Directions" in the title is that not a valid point to make? I don't really know what kind of problems are even being solved in C#-stacks (other than .Net web apps and the line) so :change my mind meme:
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May 23, 2018 17:15
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The manufacturing guys here (and the product development guys that get roped into building systems for production) have pretty much entirely switched over to C# to run their systems. That's more industrial than enterprisey, I guess. I think our internal IT folks and the contractors are also doing ops stuff with C#, but I try to interact with them as little as possible so I'm not sure. Fwiw I find the implementation of bash & coreutils that ships with Git for windows does about 80% of what I want, and it doesn't complain about running from a directory that isn't inside a repo. Unfortunately, every time IT pushes an update it breaks my PATH which makes Perl stop working so I kind of have to slum it with bash/sed/awk when I want to script stuff until I've gone and unfucked things. Cygwin and WSU (no WSL for me, not on Win10 at this time) both have enough pain points that I don't use them much, and instead fire up a VM if I get to that point.
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May 23, 2018 17:35
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Good Will Hrunting posted:I don't lack imagination, I lack knowledge of making the transition and since this thread has "Change of Directions" in the title is that not a valid point to make? JawnV6 posted:Want to get specific? Like, I hope you're not relying on grep when C# IDE's have a better native tool for any use case. But you'd rather whine about how unfair it is for me to post at you, so here we are. You're convinced your *NIX dev experience can't translate over, I still think that's bullshit, but rather than get into any details you're content to complain. Blotto Skorzany posted:The manufacturing guys here (and the product development guys that get roped into building systems for production) have pretty much entirely switched over to C# to run their systems. That's more industrial than enterprisey, I guess. I think our internal IT folks and the contractors are also doing ops stuff with C#, but I try to interact with them as little as possible so I'm not sure. Jaded Burnout posted:I'm not in the mood for someone selectively forgetting their own posts so they can paint me as the dickhead.
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May 23, 2018 18:25
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Cancelbot posted:But the reality of my career is that code exists, servers exist, and I should extract as much money as possible from people who need these things until I retire. 
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May 23, 2018 18:33
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I’ve been contracting at my current client for a year now, 2 months ago my ‘team’ (just me and another contractor) pretty much finished our component and since then we’ve been doing minor support stuff, testing, documentation on reduced hours. Our contracts are up next week, the client hasn’t done any handover to their internal teams, and I think they’re panicking a little. There’s not enough work (or money) to get a contractor fed for the next 6/12 months so they raised the idea of a support contract. Both me and my coworker are receptive to the idea, but have never done something like this, and are struggling to work out our rates. So far we’ve come up with a tiered priority based rate system. P3: 3x our day rate, 4 hours a week (minimum & maximum), weekly maintenance stuff, log and metric checking, etc. 14-day turnaround on other tasks. (This is effectively our current workload, and the cost is equivalent to one of us doing one.5 days a week) P2: 4x day rate, maximum 56 hours a week, 7 day turnaround on tasks. P1: 6.5x day rate, drop everything, SHTF scenario. We’re kinda worried we’re being greedy, But then, could we get more? We really have no idea, and have never been on the other side of the table to estimate their cost-benefit-analysis. If poo poo goes tits-up and nobody is there to support and fix it they could fail to get regulatory approval before they want to go live to the public. To put things into perspective, 12 months of P3 work would be about 20% cheaper than hiring a full time mid-level developer who we don’t have time to train. We also don’t really want to be doing a lot of evening work on top of whatever other jobs we get. And especially, don’t want to pull ourself out of our day jobs every week to fix a typo, hence making the P1 so punitive. Any advice on working out a reasonable price or any better structure?
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May 23, 2018 18:53
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JawnV6 posted:See, here's where I tried to start this conversation you're mock pining for now: I'm not convinced of that at all I just find your tone to be a bit condescending at times and given the toxicity of this industry and especially my current role, I'm hypersensitive to that type of thing. Sure I'd probably like the C# ecosystem and feel comfortable after a few months but my current value is provided via: Languages: Java, Scala, Groovy Build Tools: Gradle, Maven Frameworks: Dropwizard, Spring, Play, Spark, Hadoop, Azkaban Then various Unix CLI tools you mentioned, but a lot of this depends on what I'm actually doing. The use cases I have for awk may not carry over much depending on how my role changes, but I sure use it a lot now. This is because our job scheduler is Linux-based, though, and executing scripts is simple. So to me it makes sense to focus on those roles because I can provide the most value there at the moment. Now, that doesn't at all mean I'd pass up C# roles if the company was right. Two companies I've applied to actually are C# shops!
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May 23, 2018 18:57
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Have fun constructing your own narratives about everyone, Jawn, we’re just reacting to the things you’re saying. I’m done fuelling your nonsense.
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May 23, 2018 19:13
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Good Will Hrunting posted:I'm not convinced of that at all I just find your tone to be a bit condescending at times and given the toxicity of this industry and especially my current role, I'm hypersensitive to that type of thing. Sure I'd probably like the C# ecosystem and feel comfortable after a few months but my current value is provided via: Your current value comes from the ability to understand complex problems and explain chunks of them to computers in order to help solve them  Getting into a different stack is just re-mapping the ideas from the old one onto the new syntaxes/grammars/APIs and, if you can get paid to do that, that's something you should jump at.
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May 23, 2018 19:21
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Horse Clocks posted:
Take your current gross income and multiply it by 2. That's your base rate. Base*2 is your high priority day rate. Base *4 is your after hours regular maintenance rate. (If you feel better, you can phrase this as $X/month for ongoing maintence, and budget the appropriate hours for it.) Base*8 is your high priority after hours rate.
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May 23, 2018 19:22
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Jaded Burnout posted:Nice! https://www.reddit.com/r/programming/search?q=homebrew&restrict_sr=on&sort=relevance&t=all https://hn.algolia.com/?query=homebrew&sort=byPopularity&prefix&page=0&dateRange=all&type=story Two common aggregators mention homebrew a lot. (Which to be fair is a bad search term so it's probably less frequent then it seems.) I'm a language and system polyglot so I'm a bad sample size. But it would surprise me if it's low. But then going further would seem like a personal attack. EDIT: nevermind. This took a turn in the page since what I was replying to. Hughlander fucked around with this message at 19:34 on May 23, 2018 |
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May 23, 2018 19:31
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Horse Clocks posted:P3: 3x our day rate, 4 hours a week (minimum & maximum), weekly maintenance stuff, log and metric checking, etc. 14-day turnaround on other tasks. (This is effectively our current workload, and the cost is equivalent to one of us doing one.5 days a week) Not an opinion, just anecdote: We have an external DevOps consultancy who's day rate works out as £500 for regular planned work, their P1 rate is £500 per 4 hours and this is 24x7 call-outs, so you're close to it.
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May 23, 2018 20:00
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Mao Zedong Thot posted:.net is a career graveyard. If you want to spend the rest of your career working with mediocre tech and mediocre people inside the Microsoft silo, by all means, go ahead. As a mediocre .NET programmer without a CS degree or understanding of CS fundamentals, what's the upper limit on salary I can realistically look at? I've got a relatively low stress job with salary in the 70s and I feel like I'm in the sweet spot where any higher paying job is going to be way more difficult than the resulting pay raise. How hard is it to worm myself into the middle of some business that needs their internal applications created/updated and is willing to bump me up to 100-120k?
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May 23, 2018 20:45
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Crazy Mike posted:As a mediocre .NET programmer without a CS degree or understanding of CS fundamentals, what's the upper limit on salary I can realistically look at? I've got a relatively low stress job with salary in the 70s and I feel like I'm in the sweet spot where any higher paying job is going to be way more difficult than the resulting pay raise. How hard is it to worm myself into the middle of some business that needs their internal applications created/updated and is willing to bump me up to 100-120k? That's a difficult question to get into without knowing what industry and region you're in, your role, and your years of experience. It's not the best representation, but StackOverflow's Survey Results has some comparisons based solely on role/language.
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May 23, 2018 21:14
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Munkeymon posted:Your current value comes from the ability to understand complex problems and explain chunks of them to computers in order to help solve them
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May 23, 2018 22:32
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Crazy Mike posted:As a mediocre .NET programmer without a CS degree or understanding of CS fundamentals, what's the upper limit on salary I can realistically look at? I've got a relatively low stress job with salary in the 70s and I feel like I'm in the sweet spot where any higher paying job is going to be way more difficult than the resulting pay raise. How hard is it to worm myself into the middle of some business that needs their internal applications created/updated and is willing to bump me up to 100-120k? Greetings, it sounds like I'm living your dream! I make ~120k as a .NET dev in Denver with just over 8 yrs exp. The work is very uninspiring and some days I consider leaving, but I have a pension and work remotely so I put up with it. So your goal of well-paid mediocrity is definitely attainable.
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May 23, 2018 22:41
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Well right now C# has a near monopoly on VR since everybody is using Unity for VR. Caveat: mono’s CLR. Unity is like the node.js of VR. Yeah Unreal is a thing and it’s generally a better engine but Unity’s inertia and prefabs are huge drivers of its usage.
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May 23, 2018 23:40
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Generalists make substantially less than specialists regardless of industries - look at medicine, law, engineering, etc partly because specialization implies greater experience and raw experience is absolutely relevant. That’s a solid chunk of what’s happening with the bimodal distribution of developer salaries now. If you keep switching from stack to stack and stay a generalist, your business value will stay basically whatever level of programmer you’re at. Someone that’s coded for 5 years in a language daily will be a lot faster than me starting off until I’ve worked with it for like 6 months, use more idiomatic code, have better grasp of libraries, know build tools, etc. - that’s six months of training the newbie regardless of smarts while the other guy could have just shipped it and not taught and mentored anyone. Most good tech companies care at least as much about execution as raw smarts though and if you are in a position to be picky as such a company you demand both and nothing less. For everyone else, you need to make some trade-offs and structure your business goals appropriately.
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May 24, 2018 00:13
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Jose Valasquez posted:All languages and operating systems are garbage. Computers were a mistake This guy gets it!
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May 24, 2018 00:17
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Crazy Mike posted:As a mediocre .NET programmer without a CS degree or understanding of CS fundamentals, what's the upper limit on salary I can realistically look at? I've got a relatively low stress job with salary in the 70s and I feel like I'm in the sweet spot where any higher paying job is going to be way more difficult than the resulting pay raise. How hard is it to worm myself into the middle of some business that needs their internal applications created/updated and is willing to bump me up to 100-120k? Not hard if you're in a decent-sized metro and could consider yourself a 'senior' dev (whatever that nebulous term means.) For example, around the Philly area, a Sr .NET dev could expect that range without much trouble. You'll probably start to max out South of 140 unless you have some desirable specialty or hit the right firm. If you're anywhere near a large metro, you're vastly underpaid unless you're still in the first few years of your career.
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May 24, 2018 02:04
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Jose Valasquez posted:All languages and operating systems are garbage. Computers were a mistake 
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May 24, 2018 03:23
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necrobobsledder posted:Generalists make substantially less than specialists regardless of industries - look at medicine, law, engineering, etc partly because specialization implies greater experience and raw experience is absolutely relevant. That’s a solid chunk of what’s happening with the bimodal distribution of developer salaries now. If you keep switching from stack to stack and stay a generalist, your business value will stay basically whatever level of programmer you’re at. Specialists are (likely) at more long-term risk of becoming obsolete if they don't get in their time machines and check to see if their specialization will be valued enough during the time they
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May 24, 2018 05:43
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Jose Valasquez posted:All languages and operating systems are garbage. Computers were a mistake Time for an IoT framework built entirely on getting people on Mechanical Turk to do operations on abacuses.
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May 24, 2018 05:59
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necrobobsledder posted:Generalists make substantially less than specialists regardless of industries - look at medicine, law, engineering, etc partly because specialization implies greater experience and raw experience is absolutely relevant. That’s a solid chunk of what’s happening with the bimodal distribution of developer salaries now. If you keep switching from stack to stack and stay a generalist, your business value will stay basically whatever level of programmer you’re at. This isn't true as far as I'm aware. Certain specialities pay more, but good companies hire generalists as the skills that are valuable are entirely independent from the tools and software stack.
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May 24, 2018 06:46
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companies hire generalists because they want someone who can set up monitoring and deployment for the rest api they wrote that talks to the db they designed the schema for that powers the other api they wrote that powers the spa they maintain and the mobile app they are working on
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May 24, 2018 08:08
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necrobobsledder posted:Generalists make substantially less than specialists regardless of industries - look at medicine, law, engineering, etc partly because specialization implies greater experience and raw experience is absolutely relevant. That’s a solid chunk of what’s happening with the bimodal distribution of developer salaries now. If you keep switching from stack to stack and stay a generalist, your business value will stay basically whatever level of programmer you’re at. I don’t think that’s fully the case. A true generalist / polyglot is going to have a higher pay. Or are “full stack” coders paid less than java specialists? I feel I’m the ultimate generalist and my value is in being able to talk to anyone in the room intelligently about their problem wether it’s shadow blobs, Android NDK threading, guaranteed delivery over UDP, custom NoSQL on MySQL, horizontal scaling Java application servers, or IBGP on a rack by rack basis. Etc... And these are things I’ve dealt with / worked on in my current role.
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May 24, 2018 11:43
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Roadie posted:Time for an IoT framework built entirely on getting people on Mechanical Turk to do operations on abacuses. Dune was right
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May 24, 2018 13:13
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When companies like Google say they "want to hire generalists" they mean they want people who have the aptitude and drive to learn new tools, languages, and such as the problem or roles changes. I.e. not people who are "I've done Java CRUD apps talking to MySQL backends for 12 years, and will panic or refuse to change if ever asked to do differently". That doesn't mean that if you're, say, one of the top experts for nvme drivers in the linux kernel, someone in HR is like "a specialist! Hiss! Burn the CV!!!" ...Also if you're a top expert in anything Linux kernel please PM me.
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May 24, 2018 13:44
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I hope doing rails for most of my career didn’t pidgeonhole me into the latter.
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May 24, 2018 13:48
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Pollyanna posted:I hope doing rails for most of my career didn’t pidgeonhole me into the latter. That's entirely up to you, friend!
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May 24, 2018 13:52
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the talent deficit posted:companies hire generalists because they want someone who can set up monitoring and deployment for the rest api they wrote that talks to the db they designed the schema for that powers the other api they wrote that powers the spa they maintain and the mobile app they are working on Full Spa Developer™
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May 24, 2018 16:39
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