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RealTalk posted:I have a really simply question that I don't expect to provoke too long of a discussion. I will refrain from my behavior in the CSPAM thread dedicated to him to merely say that from the perspective of a professional academic, Peterson does not strike me as a serious thinker. Symbolic Butt posted:Is JBP really a libertarian though? I think besides his deep weird hatred of marxism I don't think he espouses a lot of libertarian values. It's hard to pin down exactly what his positions are, mainly because he a lot of what he says comes packaged in generalities and murky analogies, in what seems an intentional effort to impress those for whom "complicated = smart," and confound his critics.
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May 24, 2018 00:53
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Symbolic Butt posted:it's cursed but still funny in an ironic way I despise chiwawas and their opinions.
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May 24, 2018 00:58
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Polygynous posted:edit: lol this owns "More rungs! Pull up more rungs! They're starting to reach the bottom one!!"
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May 24, 2018 01:08
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Jazerus posted:while he has perceived the presence of serious problems in society that aren't necessarily known by the mainstream, he's chosen to tack reactionary when in many cases the right is at the root of the problems he has diagnosed. also his I'm not sure what you mean by calling him or his tactics "reactionary". As far as I can ascertain, he calls himself a classical liberal and he thinks that we should return the focus to the individual, and dispense with identity politics and group obsessions on both the left and the right. His argument would be that he focuses more on the radical Left because his position is in academia where they are clearly dominant. On a more fundamental level, do you think that the radical Left, the social justice warriors, cultural marxists or whatever else you want to call them, are a threat to free speech that deserve some push-back? Could you elaborate on your contention that the "right" is at the root of the problems he has diagnosed?
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May 24, 2018 02:14
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are very, very silly
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RealTalk posted:On a more fundamental level, do you think that the radical Left, the social justice warriors, cultural marxists or whatever else you want to call them, are a threat to free speech that deserve some push-back? No, and it betrays an extremely conservative worldview if you think that they are.
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May 24, 2018 02:32
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Captain_Maclaine posted:I will refrain from my behavior in the CSPAM thread dedicated to him to merely say that from the perspective of a professional academic, Peterson does not strike me as a serious thinker. Yeah I read a couple of his papers and they were just him coming up with stupid jargon to describe uncontroversial concepts and reactionary screeds thinly veiled in big words and evopsych gibberish. He's just like Trump, instead of a dumb person's idea of a what a rich person looks like he's a dumb person's idea of what a smart person looks like.
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May 24, 2018 02:36
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*leading alt-right loser admits they're against free speech* RealTalk: "the radical Left are a threat to free speech"
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May 24, 2018 02:39
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RealTalk posted:On a more fundamental level, do you think that the radical Left, the social justice warriors, cultural marxists or whatever else you want to call them, are a threat to free speech that deserve some push-back? Hey jrod, in this thread, who aside from you are calling anyone to the left of Pinochet any of those terms I bolded? Also on a more fundamental level, do you think that that question you wrote is leading to the point of being a starmap that aliens could use to find our tiny little planet and deserves to be rightly mocked and scorned? Also can you categorically deny the repeated allegations that you have engaged in sexual relations with one or more watermelons? It's an allegation that by its very existence is a serious threat to your credibility and deserves to be addressed.
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May 24, 2018 02:51
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RealTalk posted:I'm not sure what you mean by calling him or his tactics "reactionary". hmm yes I see
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May 24, 2018 02:52
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RealTalk posted:On a more fundamental level, do you think that the radical Left, the social justice warriors, cultural marxists or whatever else you want to call them, are a threat to free speech that deserve some push-back? No, not a bit. It's the same "PC POLICE GONE WILD!!" nonsense that his forebearer on the right peddled back in the 90s. quote:Could you elaborate on your contention that the "right" is at the root of the problems he has diagnosed? I don't know that he has accurate diagnosed any real problems, save perhaps "not enough people take me seriously," and "my first book didn't do particularly well."
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May 24, 2018 02:53
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I'm curious, Real Talk, why did you decide to post your Jordan Peterson stuff in this thread? He's not particularly libertarian.
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May 24, 2018 02:55
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WampaLord posted:No, and it betrays an extremely conservative worldview if you think that they are. If I point out that Richard Spencer and the neo-Nazi alt-right represent a threat to society and to the safety of immigrants and native-born minorities, does this betray an extremely progressive worldview? I believe this as fervently as I believe that campus leftists, antifa, and their Frankfurt-school inspired identity-politics obsessed professors represent an acute threat to society. Pointing out where the left goes too far, especially when they represent a threat to a right as fundamental as the right to free speech, hardly necessarily implies that one must be an extreme right-winger. There is a point where both right-wing and left-wing ideologies become authoritarian and dangerous. When you discuss the problem with one side of this equation, it doesn't mean you sympathize with the other.
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May 24, 2018 02:56
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RealTalk posted:If I point out that Richard Spencer and the neo-Nazi alt-right represent a threat to society and to the safety of immigrants and native-born minorities, does this betray an extremely progressive worldview? Ah see, you went and blew your load too early.
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May 24, 2018 02:59
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RealTalk posted:I'm not sure what you mean by calling him or his tactics "reactionary". "It sure would be nice if more video games had minority characters" -- a threat to free speech
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May 24, 2018 03:02
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The problem is that you don't actually know what antifa's ideology is and are just letting the Petersons of the internet tell you what it is. And what are "campus leftists"? The students? The teachers? Anyone in college that dares argue we should treat the various minorities with respect? e: would it surprise you to know that 'cultural Marxists' is often used as a code-word for The Jews?
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May 24, 2018 03:02
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RealTalk posted:If I point out that Richard Spencer and the neo-Nazi alt-right represent a threat to society and to the safety of immigrants and native-born minorities, does this betray an extremely progressive worldview? Surgeons and murderers will both come at you with a sharp knife, but they are absolutely not the same level of threat to you.
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May 24, 2018 03:05
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RealTalk posted:If I point out that Richard Spencer and the neo-Nazi alt-right represent a threat to society and to the safety of immigrants and native-born minorities, does this betray an extremely progressive worldview? So you believe that neo-Nazis who actively call for the extermination of blacks and jews and the creation of a nationalist police state are basically the same as people on the internet complaining about problems of inequality? Please tell us more of your well-informed opinions
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May 24, 2018 03:05
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Feinne posted:Yeah I read a couple of his papers and they were just him coming up with stupid jargon to describe uncontroversial concepts and reactionary screeds thinly veiled in big words and evopsych gibberish. Out of curiosity, what's a smart person's idea of what a smart person looks like? Give me an example. Can you name a couple of ideas that Peterson espouses that you feel are extremely crazy or dangerous? And be specific. I have no interest in reflexively defending the man, but the idea that he's not a smart person or does not have the credentials to be taken seriously, seems fairly preposterous. His ideas are very heavily influenced by Carl Jung and the idea of universal archetypes that surface in the stories that are told in religious traditions over the centuries. He's also a fan of Fyodor Dostoevsky and Friedrich Nietzsche. I'm assuming you wouldn't have the temerity to call those men stupid? I'm just trying to nail down precisely what is stupid or dangerous about the idea's that Peterson espouses. This tactic of derision against Peterson's credentials as a "serious" thinker is odd given the evidently low standards of what passes for smart in contemporary academia. Even if I were to accept that Peterson is a conservative (which I don't accept), I think it'd be hard to argue that he isn't head and shoulders above any conservative intellectual who successfully entered the mainstream in a generation or two at least. Are there conservative intellectuals who you think are more intelligent or impressive than Peterson? Or is it simply because you consider him to be a conservative, that you write him off as unintelligent or "the dumb persons idea of a smart person"?
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May 24, 2018 03:11
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Goon Danton posted:I'm curious, Real Talk, why did you decide to post your Jordan Peterson stuff in this thread? He's not particularly libertarian. That's true, but I didn't find a thread dedicated to him and this one was particularly active. So I figured this short aside might be more appropriate here than in another thread.
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May 24, 2018 03:16
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There is a real threat to free speech on campus, but to find out what it is, you need to be in faculty and very strident about, say, criticizing Israel.
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May 24, 2018 03:19
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RealTalk posted:Out of curiosity, what's a smart person's idea of what a smart person looks like? Give me an example.  All smart people look like this RealTalk posted:I'm assuming you wouldn't have the temerity to call those men stupid? By the gods, it's true! St. Rodimus hath returndeth!
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May 24, 2018 03:20
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Come to cspam RTalkfeld, we have more temerity than you'll know what to do with
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May 24, 2018 03:23
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Who’s Really Placing Limits on Free Speech?quote:It’s true that these battle lines are drawn across all campuses to one degree or another, but what many people don’t realize is that they are the most pressing concerns only for elite private institutions like Oberlin and Yale. https://twitter.com/emorwee/status/983715039382245376 https://twitter.com/alexnpress/status/986306177482084352 https://twitter.com/alexnpress/status/986307633773727746 https://twitter.com/JonathanCohn/status/987009139875438592 There's tons on this kinda stuff. But when it comes to "radical SJW students censoring anyone who makes racists feel bad," well... https://twitter.com/CoreyRobin/status/990022237469200384
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May 24, 2018 03:25
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https://twitter.com/YALiberty/status/998700087042871296 they look so... dapper!
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May 24, 2018 03:31
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Oh, I finally get it, Peterson is where South Park fans go when they want to feel like "serious" grown-ups.
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May 24, 2018 03:33
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RealTalk posted:I believe this as fervently as I believe that campus leftists, antifa, and their Frankfurt-school inspired identity-politics obsessed professors represent an acute threat to society. 
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May 24, 2018 03:37
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Don’t doubt there are issues everywhere, but it’s a bit disingenuous to discount it all as one side- the Bret Weinstein stuff is pretty nutty as a case study of some of the egregious stuff out of the left. https://youtu.be/Pf5fAiXYr08 (No idea if this video is super great, watched the first min and it seemed to do an ok job of summarizing it)
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May 24, 2018 03:39
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So I can just add Realtalk text to jrodbot directly, right? Also I may have corrupted my earlier script but I can restore from backup. 
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May 24, 2018 03:41
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RealTalk posted:I believe this as fervently as I believe that campus leftists, antifa, and their Frankfurt-school inspired identity-politics obsessed professors represent an acute threat to society. I'd love to hear more about these Frankfurt School inspired professors. Would you say that they're rootless cosmopolitans as well? Is the acute threat such that we should be worried about being stabbed in the back?
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May 24, 2018 03:43
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RealTalk posted:On a more fundamental level, do you think that the radical Left, the social justice warriors, cultural marxists or whatever else you want to call them, are a threat to free speech that deserve some push-back? So why, exactly, do you think that the left is a threat to free speech? What speech do you believe the left is trying to get rid of?
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May 24, 2018 03:44
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Goon Danton posted:I'd love to hear more about these Frankfurt School inspired professors. Would you say that they're rootless cosmopolitans as well? Is the acute threat such that we should be worried about being stabbed in the back? Probably referring to things such as the folks in these vids https://m.facebook.com/FilmYourMarxistProfessors/
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May 24, 2018 03:45
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RealTalk posted:I have a really simply question that I don't expect to provoke too long of a discussion. His views include, but are not limited to, "women are less competent than men in any given field," "mass shootings are caused by men not getting enough sex," and following that, "society would be safer, happier, and healthier if only the government would make sure that men get to gently caress as much as they want." These are not things invented to destroy his reputation, cherrypicked and taken out of context, or misinterpretations of his words. He has stated these opinions nearly verbatim. Jordan Peterson's most closely held beliefs are regressive, baseless, and morally repugnant.
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May 24, 2018 03:46
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Trash Trick posted:Don’t doubt there are issues everywhere, but it’s a bit disingenuous to discount it all as one side- the Bret Weinstein stuff is pretty nutty as a case study of some of the egregious stuff out of the left. Yeah, it's a "case study" of something that tends to happen at small elite liberal arts colleges, and there's nothing disingenuous about noting that these "cases" get blown out of proportion, which is what I did.
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May 24, 2018 03:47
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Trash Trick posted:Probably referring to things such as the folks in these vids https://m.facebook.com/FilmYourMarxistProfessors/ I'm not doing facebook at the moment, but there is precisely one group of people who give a gently caress about the Frankfurt School and they're not a group known for having a tolerance for others.
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May 24, 2018 03:50
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GunnerJ posted:Who’s Really Placing Limits on Free Speech? I agree completely that Palestinian activists and people who criticize Israel continue to have their right to free speech abridged. I'd even say that their speech is under greater threat than almost anyone else in this country. Can you not see though that the same way that speakers critical of Israel are smeared as "antisemites" is similar to how many conservatives or even libertarians are smeared as racists? We don't have to agree that the degree to which someone's right to speech is suppressed is exactly equal to that of another group to recognize that all these groups should be allowed to speak. Your analysis seems to rest on which group you personally feel sympathy for. You feel sympathy for Palestinian activists, as do I, so abridging their freedom of speech is a grave injustice. You don't feel sympathy for conservatives or libertarians so their free speech rights can be abridged with impunity. The problem that I object to is the physical shutting down of planned events by leftist protesters. Identifying this as a problem doesn't mean that I ignore some other problem, or am comparing it's degree of seriousness.
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May 24, 2018 03:55
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Goon Danton posted:I'm not doing facebook at the moment, but there is precisely one group of people who give a gently caress about the Frankfurt School and they're not a group known for having a tolerance for others. I guess then you won't be surprised to learn that not two posts down this page shares a Brietbart link with the description: quote:I am not excited to see the ghetto this country will turn into when whites become less than 50% of the population in 2050.
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May 24, 2018 03:56
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Captain_Maclaine posted:I don't know that he has accurate diagnosed any real problems, save perhaps "not enough people take me seriously," and "my first book didn't do particularly well." the problem he has accurately diagnosed is that some young men feel rootless and extremely angry about being so but that's a problem mostly because it opens them up to folks like jordan "cultural bolshevism" peterson for conversion/grift
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May 24, 2018 03:57
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RealTalk posted:Can you not see though that the same way that speakers critical of Israel are smeared as "antisemites" is similar to how many conservatives or even libertarians are smeared as racists? Similar in kind, not in degree (in that some antisemites do fly under the radar as "anti-zionists" while conservatives and libertarians peddle crypto-fash poo poo on the reg). RealTalk posted:Your analysis seems to rest on which group you personally feel sympathy for. Not really, it rests on what looks like a pattern of SJW panic being a few incidents in a certain type of school blown way out of proportion while much more common threats to peoples' freedoms go overlooked.
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May 24, 2018 03:58
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RealTalk posted:Can you not see though that the same way that speakers critical of Israel are smeared as "antisemites" is similar to how many conservatives or even libertarians are smeared as racists? Being called a racist is not a threat to free speech, it is a consequence of having free speech. People are free to call each other racist, that's what freedom of speech is.
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May 24, 2018 03:59
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GunnerJ posted:I guess then you won't be surprised to learn that not two posts down this page shares a Brietbart link with the description: Lol whoa!! That’s some messed up stuff. I’d just seen that link thrown around wrt people discussing neomarxist Frankfurt inspired profs and wanted to see if that’s what the person here was referring to.
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May 24, 2018 04:02
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