/r/relationships: Memento Mori Lasagna

The Something Awful Forums > Main > General Bullshit > /r/relationships: Memento Mori Lasagna

Ouhei: Oct 23, 2008; Cat Army

ArbitraryC posted:

Title doesn't seem to match the post at all? Like it implies there are issues but then the only problem he discusses is that he's unwilling to make a firm commitment to her for nebulous reasons. There are so many problems marriage doesn't solve, but it would in fact solve this one.

Yeah, weird that the one thing it would actually solve is that people getting on you and your girlfriend about getting married would stop when you actually get married. Based on those families though, that would just bring on the badgering about kids, so maybe you should run anyways?

I mean, they don't have to get married, but if it's something they both want, have discussed and she's clearly showing signs she wants to take that step sooner rather than later...what exactly is he waiting on? She's even floating having a long engagement so it's not like he'd be fully locked down for a while still? If something goes sideways while you're engaged you just part ways and depending on the circumstances get the ring back.

# ? May 24, 2018 21:23

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# ? May 30, 2024 12:17

ArbitraryC: Jan 28, 2009; Pick a number, any number; Pillbug

Gumbel2Gumbel posted:

What the hell? This is completely wrong. A condom is 98% effective if it's used every time, withdrawal is 76%.

Pullout is 96% from planned parenthood itself with "perfect use". Perfect use is basically: actually pull out, don't have sex if you still got gunk up there from last time you came.

# ? May 24, 2018 21:23

Grevling: Dec 18, 2016

I always wonder about the thread titles in this thread but it's impossible to find those stories. They should really be in the OP.

# ? May 24, 2018 21:26

Ham Sandwiches: Jul 7, 2000

If reddit mods see a bunch of clickthroughs they consider it brigading and nuke the story, the links are omitted for that reason

you can go to google and type site:reddit.com and paste the article headline and if it's not too recent you'll find it. If that doesn't work go on relationships and paste the same title and it will generally find it.

The ones that doesn't work for is recent stories <1 hr old that get nuked, then they don't show up in search or google.

# ? May 24, 2018 21:28

pidan: Nov 6, 2012

Gumbel2Gumbel posted:

What the hell? This is completely wrong. A condom is 98% effective if it's used every time, withdrawal is 76%.

Both things depend on more factors than that. Perfect use failure rate for both tends to be under 5% per year, and typical failure rates are about 20%, where the most common cause of failure by far is "failing to use the method every time".

We tell teenagers that pulling out and rhythm method don't work, because they're very tempted to try them (won't have to tell the doctor / pharmacist / drug store cashier that you're having sex) and at the same time they're very likely to screw up, because they don't know their bodies yet. But for adults who are able to assess the risk for themselves, symptothermal methods are a perfectly reasonable option, and pulling out, I guess, is ok if you have a backup plan for dealing with a surprise baby. Or if you're one of those death grip guys who can only come from their own strong fist. :henget:

# ? May 24, 2018 21:31

Grevling: Dec 18, 2016

Ham Sandwiches posted:

If reddit mods see a bunch of clickthroughs they consider it brigading and nuke the story, the links are omitted for that reason

you can go to google and type site:reddit.com and paste the article headline and if it's not too recent you'll find it. If that doesn't work go on relationships and paste the same title and it will generally find it.

The ones that doesn't work for is recent stories <1 hr old that get nuked, then they don't show up in search or google.

Woah thanks, didn't even think of that. Found it immediately upon googling.

# ? May 24, 2018 21:33

Captain Yossarian: Feb 24, 2011; All new" Rings of Fire"

ArbitraryC posted:

I dated a girl for like 2-3 years that didn't wanna take hormonal stuff for obvious reasons, was allergic to the metals in the non hormonal IUDs, and wasn't a huge fan of condoms. We used em for a while at first for obvious reasons but eventually went with mostly pull out, not even a scare. It's really not difficult, there's only like two rules you gotta follow. Current gf prefers it too, 3ish years in.

It's surprisingly common among millennials and not nearly as big of a deal as people make it out to be. A quick google and you can find a billion op ed pieces on why people are doing it and that the stats aren't really as scary as you'd think.

I for one am glad you gently caress

# ? May 24, 2018 21:40

christmas boots: Oct 15, 2012; To these sing-alongs 🎤of siren 🧜🏻‍♀️songs
To oohs😮 to ahhs😱 to 👏big👏applause👏
With all of my 😡anger I scream🤬 and shout📢
🇺🇸America🦅, I love you 🥰but you're freaking 💦me 😳out; Biscuit Hider

Ham Sandwiches posted:

If reddit mods see a bunch of clickthroughs they consider it brigading and nuke the story, the links are omitted for that reason

you can go to google and type site:reddit.com and paste the article headline and if it's not too recent you'll find it. If that doesn't work go on relationships and paste the same title and it will generally find it.

The ones that doesn't work for is recent stories <1 hr old that get nuked, then they don't show up in search or google.

Yeah, I�m too lazy to check the OP but this should probably be in there if it isn�t.

My(33M) sister(31F) has avoided me for a year and is having a baby shower this weekend. I haven't been invited personally. Should I still bring my family?

quote:

My younger sister has been in contact with my older sister and other family members but not me due to an incident that occurred over a year ago. I brought my daughter to Maryland to visit her family last summer. We had a good time, and my daughter acted well behaved. My younger sister is big into organic food, non dairy products, and food that isn't generally easily available or affordable where I live. I knew this going in and let my 6 year old daughter know that we will probably be eating different foods but to try and be respectful.

Well, on the last day she had food prepared that I knew my daughter wouldn't like as soon as I saw it. Nevertheless, she tried a bite and couldn't eat it. My daughter asked for some blueberries instead which I agreed to because I didn't want her to not eat of course. My brother in law told my daughter that she should eat what my sister had prepared since she worked hard on it. He has always had a brash personality but I usually just avoid him because it's my sister's husband. However, parenting my child did rub me the wrong way, but I didn't mention it at the time since I was a guest and the whole family was at the table.

Later, I mentioned it to my sister but she didn't really say anything. I could tell she was offended though. I didn't go straight to him because I felt she would have been even more angry. I really just wanted her to know that my child needed to eat and she can't help what she likes in case it happened again. I didn't think this was a big deal at all. However, I've spoken to her once since that visit and she ended the call saying someone she'd been wanting to talk to was beeping in. I called her because I didn't want there to be tension. Fast forward to now and my whole family is driving six hours to a baby shower for her. My wife and I haven't gotten a single email, text, or call about it. I'm only hearing about it via my mother and sister.

What do I do here? My sister has cut off a lot of family members. She lectured my daughter on asking where girl Legos were in the store during the visit because she is very die hard into gender neutral things. I feel like I have to tiptoe around everything even when I agree. She banned my 80 year old grandparents who are older and dont understand why our boys wanted to paint their nails. I personally don't care but I do understand that it's their cultural background. I can't help but feel she has banned me for the minor food incident. I don't want to drive my family six hours for an awkward event if she doesn't want us there. What do I do here?

TLDR My sister has avoided me for a year due to me expressing concern about her husband's lecturing of my daughter. Now she's having a baby shower but I haven't been invited personally unlike my sister and parents. Should we still go?

Definitely bring the whole clan to a gathering you weren�t invited to.

# ? May 24, 2018 23:02

tactlessbastard: Feb 4, 2001; Godspeed, post; Fun Shoe

fruit on the bottom posted:

Yeah, I’m too lazy to check the OP but this should probably be in there if it isn’t.

My(33M) sister(31F) has avoided me for a year and is having a baby shower this weekend. I haven't been invited personally. Should I still bring my family?

Definitely bring the whole clan to a gathering you weren’t invited to.

Oh no, a complete chore of a sibling has gone no contact what ever shall I do

# ? May 24, 2018 23:07

The_end: May 17, 2014

fruit on the bottom posted:

My(33M) sister(31F) has avoided me for a year and is having a baby shower this weekend. I haven't been invited personally. Should I still bring my family?

Definitely bring the whole clan to a gathering you weren�t invited to.

It sounds like this guy won the lottery.

# ? May 24, 2018 23:12

La Brea Carpet: Nov 22, 2007; I have no mouth and I must post

Me [34M] having issues with people thinking I'm special needs

quote:

I have been working with special needs people for 8 years. I am one of few male staff in the area. I constantly have case workers and staff from other agencies ask me "where's your staff at?" and some that even baby talk with me. When they learn I'm not a client they get embarrassed and always say "I didn't know."

I'm clearly being labeled special needs based off my looks. I feel like nobody takes me seriously and I can't build any relationships with others because i'm looked at as a client. I don't know what to do. My self esteem is gone.

TL;DR People think im special needs and i don't know how to handle it.

quote:

Thank you for the reply. I just wear regular summer clothing. It's hot out so gym shorts and a plain shirt. I could manage to lose 20lbs and smile more but even when i was in shape and happy i was still getting the special needs comments. I know i just need to let it go but it just always pulls me back in.....I will work on myself.

# ? May 24, 2018 23:15

Baronjutter: Dec 31, 2007; "Tiny Trains"

6 year old still being a bit of a picky eater but at least trying things is fairly ok.

# ? May 24, 2018 23:21

Ziv Zulander: Mar 24, 2017; ZZ for short

La Brea Carpet posted:

Me [34M] having issues with people thinking I'm special needs

Wear a nametag

# ? May 24, 2018 23:21

tactlessbastard: Feb 4, 2001; Godspeed, post; Fun Shoe

Ziv Zulander posted:

Wear a nametag

If found please call 911

# ? May 24, 2018 23:23

Baronjutter: Dec 31, 2007; "Tiny Trains"

La Brea Carpet posted:

Me [34M] having issues with people thinking I'm special needs

That's a real bummer. Would love to see a pic of this dude though. Some people just have faces/bodies that signal "retarded" despite not being so. There's all sorts of "tells" we pick up on, from facial structure, expressions, posture, and clothing. If it's his face he's hosed but maybe there's some other things he could do.

# ? May 24, 2018 23:28

ArbitraryC: Jan 28, 2009; Pick a number, any number; Pillbug

Captain Yossarian posted:

I for one am glad you gently caress

It's just funny because people swallowed the information on it like abstinence only sex-ed hook line and sinker and are incredulous it's literally more popular than the pill when birth rates are as low as ever.

It's on par with condoms if you're not so stupid you'd probably gently caress up condom use anyways, very popular among our generation, and something we can't really ever discuss because people are so judgey about it.

# ? May 24, 2018 23:28

Peaceful Anarchy: Sep 18, 2005; sXe
I am the math man.

Ziv Zulander posted:

Wear a nametag

And pants. He doesn't need to be formal, but jeans or slacks, or if he insists on wearing shorts then at least wear Khakis not gym shorts.

# ? May 24, 2018 23:33

La Brea Carpet: Nov 22, 2007; I have no mouth and I must post

Peaceful Anarchy posted:

And pants. He doesn't need to be formal, but jeans or slacks, or if he insists on wearing shorts then at least wear Khakis not gym shorts.

*Walks into group home*

*Sees tubby dude in t-shirt and gym shorts at 2PM on a Thursday*

*Makes assumption*

# ? May 24, 2018 23:35

tactlessbastard: Feb 4, 2001; Godspeed, post; Fun Shoe

Baronjutter posted:

That's a real bummer. Would love to see a pic of this dude though. Some people just have faces/bodies that signal "retarded" despite not being so. There's all sorts of "tells" we pick up on, from facial structure, expressions, posture, and clothing. If it's his face he's hosed but maybe there's some other things he could do.

Yeah, the new priest at my wife's church looks like he's got a touch of trisomy but actually doesn't. Just an unfortunate draw in the face department.

# ? May 24, 2018 23:37

COMRADES: Apr 3, 2017; by LITERALLY AN ADMIN

ArbitraryC posted:

I dated a girl for like 2-3 years that didn't wanna take hormonal stuff for obvious reasons, was allergic to the metals in the non hormonal IUDs, and wasn't a huge fan of condoms. We used em for a while at first for obvious reasons but eventually went with mostly pull out, not even a scare. It's really not difficult, there's only like two rules you gotta follow. Current gf prefers it too, 3ish years in.

It's surprisingly common among millennials and not nearly as big of a deal as people make it out to be. A quick google and you can find a billion op ed pieces on why people are doing it and that the stats aren't really as scary as you'd think.

This is true.

:shrug:

# ? May 24, 2018 23:38

Barudak: May 7, 2007

I aint rawdogging nobody without two separate clean bills of health and a security deposit

# ? May 24, 2018 23:46

Haifisch: Nov 13, 2010; Objection! I object! That was... objectionable!; Taco Defender

[M17] was a psychiatrist hitting on me?

quote:

I was put into the hospital for xanax overdose and I was still under the influence of the drug. A psychiatrist (guy) came into my room and asked me some questions.

He asked about my sexuality, I said I am gay. He then started asking what kind of porn i watch (hardcore or softcore), he then asked if i masturbate a lot, he asked if i was in a intimate relationship with a guy (in which i wasnt), he then asked if i wanted to be (i said no, but i actually do want to be in one), he then asked what I prefer in a guy (body type, hair, etc.)

These questions seemed very personal and i dont understand how it would correlate to anything. I was still intoxicated so i didnt think much of it. Was this guy hitting on me? Hes in his thirities if that matters.

TL;DR: a psychiatrist started asking me personal questions regarding my sexual activity and what porn i watch and how much i masturbate. Is he hitting on me?

# ? May 24, 2018 23:48

COMRADES: Apr 3, 2017; by LITERALLY AN ADMIN

quote:

He asked about my sexuality, I said I am gay. He then started asking what kind of porn i watch (hardcore or softcore), he then asked if i masturbate a lot, he asked if i was in a intimate relationship with a guy (in which i wasnt), he then asked if i wanted to be (i said no, but i actually do want to be in one), he then asked what I prefer in a guy (body type, hair, etc.)

lol

# ? May 24, 2018 23:49

Mr. Creakle: Apr 27, 2007; Protecting your virginity

EDIT drat my reply was late, this is in reference to BC chat:

I take a non hormonal BC pill that's... well, not FDA approved (Saheli) but 12 years in and not a single issue. The only side effects are acne flare ups and zero periods. It sucks but hormonal BC pills are AWFUL for some women and some are also sensitive to the IUD. Hopefully they come up with a male pill that works, so couples can choose or even double-up.

Mr. Creakle fucked around with this message at 23:54 on May 24, 2018

# ? May 24, 2018 23:52

Modus Pwnens: Dec 29, 2004

La Brea Carpet posted:

Me [34M] having issues with people thinking I'm special needs

Mr. M

# ? May 24, 2018 23:56

loquacius: Oct 21, 2008

fruit on the bottom posted:

Yeah, I�m too lazy to check the OP but this should probably be in there if it isn�t.

My(33M) sister(31F) has avoided me for a year and is having a baby shower this weekend. I haven't been invited personally. Should I still bring my family?

Definitely bring the whole clan to a gathering you weren�t invited to.

The way you can tell someone is really #woke is if a literal 6-year-old asks for girl or boy toys, and their response is to lecture the child as though the child has done something wrong

# ? May 25, 2018 00:03

Jeza: Feb 13, 2011; The cries of the dead are terrible indeed; you should try not to hear them.

Haifisch posted:

[M17] was a psychiatrist hitting on me?

All perfectly valid questions. Now excuse me, I need to inspect your penis. It's all part of a routine checkup.

# ? May 25, 2018 00:04

COMRADES: Apr 3, 2017; by LITERALLY AN ADMIN

quote:

I don't want to drive my family six hours for an awkward event if she doesn't want us there. What do I do here?

don't go

e: \/\/\/ also good

COMRADES fucked around with this message at 00:14 on May 25, 2018

# ? May 25, 2018 00:08

Blade Runner: Aug 14, 2015

Go, but exclusively to gently caress with her

Just poo poo all over everything she does for the entire night

# ? May 25, 2018 00:12

value-brand cereal: May 2, 2008

Barudak posted:

I aint rawdogging nobody without two separate clean bills of health and a security deposit

But no full body cavity search? Braver than a us marine, you are.

# ? May 25, 2018 00:16

Barudak: May 7, 2007

value-brand cereal posted:

But no full body cavity search? Braver than a us marine, you are.

I dont know how you make love but that box gets checked off

# ? May 25, 2018 00:29

Lonely Virgil: Oct 9, 2012

La Brea Carpet posted:

Me [34M] having issues with people thinking I'm special needs

Wear some big boy pants at work, dude.

"Should I wear my sweats or track pants today?" - this guy.

Lonely Virgil fucked around with this message at 00:35 on May 25, 2018

# ? May 25, 2018 00:33

LethalGeek: Nov 4, 2009

There's plenty of tubby males in t-shirts & shorts. What's this guy doing that's making everyone think he's challenged?

# ? May 25, 2018 00:37

therobit: Aug 19, 2008; I've been tryin' to speak with you for a long time

LethalGeek posted:

There's plenty of tubby males in t-shirts & shorts. What's this guy doing that's making everyone think he's challenged?

Going to work in them?

# ? May 25, 2018 00:41

girl pants: Sep 21, 2006; I feel a great disturbance in my pants

fruit on the bottom posted:

My(33M) sister(31F) has avoided me for a year and is having a baby shower this weekend. I haven't been invited personally. Should I still bring my family?

Hey reddit I wasn't invited to an event I don't want to attend anyway should I go?

I know who the real special needs person is here.

# ? May 25, 2018 00:55

Bored: Jul 26, 2007; Dude, ix-nay on the oice-vay.

Baronjutter posted:

That's a real bummer. Would love to see a pic of this dude though. Some people just have faces/bodies that signal "retarded" despite not being so. There's all sorts of "tells" we pick up on, from facial structure, expressions, posture, and clothing. If it's his face he's hosed but maybe there's some other things he could do.

I saw a plastic surgery show several years back with a woman who had some kind of problem with her facial nerves which caused people to think she was mentally disabled. I think it was from when she was a baby and her facial muscles just didn't develop correctly as she grew up. She was mentally all there.

She got plastic surgery and it pretty much wiped out the appearance of mental disability. I think she got a chin implant and maybe cheek bone implants. I can't loving find it though. They kept saying she has a "syndromic face" but that search term just brings up tons of articles and videos about people with down syndrome getting plastic surgery.

Anyway, this guy should get cosmetic surgery since it's so cheap and risk-free!

# ? May 25, 2018 01:07

Admiral Ray: May 17, 2014; Proud Musk and Dogecoin fanboy

La Brea Carpet posted:

Me [34M] having issues with people thinking I'm special needs

Dudes got a face like Sloth

# ? May 25, 2018 02:23

Admiral Ray: May 17, 2014; Proud Musk and Dogecoin fanboy

Barudak posted:

I aint rawdogging nobody without two separate clean bills of health and a security deposit

Bring a gun for protection so you can shoot your dick off when it threatens you.

# ? May 25, 2018 02:25

value-brand cereal: May 2, 2008

Today's keyword:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kl_kyhwCDtY

My (25f) mom (67) is dying. My sister (35f) is dependent on her in every possible way. Other sister (37f) and brother in law (39m) are now talking about how we will all have to take over for mom and take care of our sister. I do not want to do this.Non-Romantic
Posted byu/no-thanks-no

https://www.reddit.com/r/relationships/comments/45fxwk/my_25f_mom_67_is_dying_my_sister_35f_is_dependent/

quote:

I will try to be brief. My sister Jen (35f) has been frankly a mess for her whole life. She has gotten exponentially worse since age 18 and literally expects the whole world to revolve around her and cater to her. Unfortunately it often DOES and that's because my mom constantly gave in to her demands. She is also very demanding of my other sister Paula (37) and myself, mostly of our time but also of Paula's money. Jen will whine about how she feels "so bad" about owing Paula and my mom so much money, but apparently she doesn't feel that bad because she hasn't had a job since she was 19. She claims she sends in applications all the time but that it's just really hard to get a job right now. I think that's bullshit. She COULD work SOMEWHERE but she won't apply for anything less than $15/hr despite having no skills.

Other things to note: aside from being financially and emotionally dependent, she also can't (or won't) do any regular tasks for herself. She won't go to the grocery store alone. She has no car. She won't do her own laundry. She won't cook, and is very overweight because she just eats junk or orders out. So far this year, my mom has spent over $20k paying for Jen's rent. She lives in an expensive one bedroom in our city because she refused to look at low income housing and guess what, my mom allowed her to choose the apartment. My mom has almost no money to her name. Every cent from retirement and pension went to my sister.

Those are the basics. Now, of course this is complicated by the fact that she is not well mentally. She has depression and anxiety and some severe paranoia (constantly is POSITIVE people are making fun of her, etc. which contributes to her fear of working) and many doctors Have suggested she might have bipolar or BPD.

I understand that she is suffering and in a kind of pain that none of us could fathom. But my pity is just gone. I feel like she could do something, ANYTHING but just won't. Even getting her to a therapist was exhausting and it hasn't really worked at all! She's been in therapy with one of the top doctors in our area but she isn't completely honest with him and even he recently told her that if she doesn't do SOMETHING there is no point in her seeing him anymore.

So we're at a loss but frankly I'm done. I'm upset with everything and even though it is killing me to watch my mom fade, somewhere inside I have to admit I'm also angry that she let this happen. I know she couldn't control my sister completely but I just wish she hadn't just kept giving and giving and giving and creating this unhealthy dynamic.

So now we're at a crossroads. Paula has been crying to me lately about how terrified and angry she is that now WE have to take care of Jen. Financially, emotionally, basic needs whatever. I went to her house last night and we sat down with her husband and her oldest child (15m) to talk about things. She has seemed to just "accept her fate" and just depressingly acknowledges how now she has to keep up paying Jen's rent and etc. But she and her husband have asked me to contribute in any way I can because they have two kids who will eventually go to college and it isn't fair for them to miss out on things because of their unwell aunt.

I agree, but I can't do this. I barely talk to Jen anymore and only see her at family events because she's so exhausting and I refuse to cater to her ridiculousness. I tried for So long and it did nothing and now I can see how deeply stuck she truly is. I don't want to be dragged in. I think it's so sad that Paula is convinced she "has" to take care of our sister. I don't know how to explain that we can say NO. My mom was never able to. But we can.

Unfortunately I am seeing that Paula won't accept that and she feels that as the oldest she is required to do this. I know it's unlikely I can't convince her otherwise. But how can I explain I can't help them continue this pattern of dependency/codependency? I guess maybe I sound cold but honestly I just feel so numb. My mom deteriorated so much over the years and honestly I blame Jen for a lot of that, causing her so much stress and pain. And I think Jen has had too many years and too many chances to change. I give up, as bad as that sounds... I really give up.

TL;DR I don't want to take on the burden of caring for my adult sister who is mentally ill but refuses to do ANYTHING. Other sister has asked me to help. I just have nothing left to give and I don't know how to a) deal with the guilt and b) explain that they don't have to pay for her and c) explain this in a way Paula will understand.

Thank you guys for any advice you can offer

UPDATE:

quote:

hi everyone! I have a sort-of update that I wanted to share since you all helped me so immensely the last time I posted. Please let me start by saying thank you from the bottom of my heart. I was in a very dark and numb place and you all really helped give me some clarity when I desperately needed it.

So, the basics: my mom is actually doing okay right now. The prognosis was much worse before in that they were saying she could go as quickly as three months, but just a couple days after my first post she was able to do more on her own, keep down food, get out of bed and interact much more "normally" than before. They are saying that if she continues to show consistency like this it could be a lot longer than we first thought; regardless it is a long road ahead and we will just have to see what happens.

Paula has somewhat come to her senses on this whole matter. She and her husband invited me over and she apologized profusely for guilt tripping me and for expecting that I would share a responsibility like this just out of obligation. She said she was not coping well with our moms condition and was feeling desperate and frankly terrified so she was being a bit irrational. I asked her why SHE felt obligated to strap herself and her family to Jen and she couldn't really answer beyond saying that she does feel responsible for her well being as she does for me, her kids, etc. and she doesn't think she could cope with knowingly letting Jen suffer. All I could do was assure her that that's not her cross to bear and that she should consider seeing a counselor to talk it through and get some perspective.

Paula also said she literally cannot support Jen financially in the long term (as our mother has to an extreme) and she wanted to look into other options for Jen. She explained that she knew she could not put her family second to take care of Jen. So the first thing we did was reach out to Jen's therapist (thank you to all those who suggested it). We had a family session today...

It went as I expected I guess. Paula and I went with Jen there. Honestly I was shaking before I got there because I have been deliberately pulling away from Jen for the last few years and I KNOW she is livid and hurt. I knew Jen would lash out and she certainly did. But it was good in that the therapist (who is one of the best in our area for personality disorders, anxiety, etc) explained that he couldn't help her if she didn't try SOMETHING and he actually would not recommend that Paula and I support Jen forever if she refused to do something. He asked if Jen would consider accepting a job at say, McDonald's, and she sad flat out "ummm...no." When he asked why she just kept repeating "I just don't want to be around people" and he said okay but if your sister said she wouldn't support you if you didn't accept it, would you? She said "no, but they shouldn't just cut me off like that, that's hosed up." He said that he blamed our family a lot (absolutely makes sense) and when Jensaid "but they're family they should be there" he set it up like this:

Imagine you were supporting your sisters, financially, emotionally, physically, whatever. And someone came up and offered your sisters a job at McDonald's. And they said no. How would you react?

--

She said she would be annoyed but she wouldn't just abandon us. So... There wasn't much wiggle room there. I wished he'd explained that it's not abandonment and that we can't drag ourselves down if she won't do the smallest of things, but I'm not a therapist! I was really relieved to have him there because she then jumped to saying how "only mom has been there for me, YOU haven't at all" (to me) and I explained as best as I could that we all needed to be healthy happy and functioning to have healthy relationships, it's not me not being there, but I need to support from a distance because it affects me deeply, and in fact when I WAS "there" all the time it didn't help Jen at all. I said that this had been going on for years and being tightly wrapped up in each other was actually damaging and not helping her at all. He backed me up on that and asked her why she thought that her family should do all this for her. She just kept repeating "because we're FAMILY and I would do it for them and I've always been there for them"

So yeah, not really budging on that. She also went off about how I've changed since I went to college, and blamed my boyfriend for that a lot. She said "how lucky you are not to have to give a gently caress, it's easier to be distant." She was extremely angry but crying at this point which was hard to see. I tried as much as I could not to argue at all but to say "I'm sorry you feel that way, but I disagree" and refocus us to talking about what the heck were going to do next. The therapist also tried to do the same, focusing on how Jen needs to move beyond these familial expectations and start to do something for herself.

He told her it's going to be extremely hard for her to find a job and it will be a lot of work. She acknowledged she needed to, but then he again asked if she'd now consider accepting a job at McDonald's and she again said no and that she couldn't explain why. It was so hard to hear this because I just felt like we kept hitting walls. Paula even brought up how she couldn't afford this financially and that when Jen lived with her for over a year, nothing changed! Jen immediately shot back "well that was because it was toxic in your house." The therapist asked how she contributed to that toxicity and she said she just didn't like Paula's husband.

That was more or less the situation. I left feeling really mixed up but at least relieved that I tried something. Jen also thanked me for coming -- but not before talking to me outside very bitterly about how I've hurt her so much, not been there for her - repeats of the same stuff in the session. She said I used to be very family oriented (when I was a child through 18 I guess) and I've changed so much and not all families are close, but OURS is and we should never not help each other. I explained I needed to take care of myself and I've been trying to do that, get healthier because I have not been doing well mentally/emotionally. I wanted her to do the same. She was somewhat receptive actually, and understanding, but didn't away from her position that we always shared the same definition of family until I went to college. She said "I was always there for you and then you didn't need me anymore when you met [boyfriend]. " I said I'm sorry you feel that way but that isn't how I feel at all, but we can't all set each other on fire to keep each other warm (thanks guys!) and that us "being there" was actually hurting each other's growth so much. She agreed, but again said "but you're not some stranger off the street you're my SISTER."

sorry for the length. But anyway, that seemed to somewhat make sense to her I guess. I realize though that I will never change that line of thinking and she will always believe that Paula and me, especially, are extremely selfish.

Fortunately after that she seemed to relax a bit and agreed she needed to "wake up" and do something. She said she wished something could wake her up, like if she was about to get hit by a train and realized, poo poo, I need to move.

All I could think was that her wake up would be us cutting her off. But the therapist said he wouldn't recommend that - however, he also thinks Paula needs to put a limitation on how long she will help and set a firm line. Jen needs to put in the effort to get a social worker, begin a program that helps adults find jobs, and apply for disability. Her type of insurance is awful in this state which complicates things but she claims she will do the research.

So I really don't know. Honestly, I don't have much hope. I just don't -- there are so many issues that it just seems insurmountable. I don't expect any change because she hasn't hit any kind of rock bottom. She claimed that me explaining that I would continue to keep her at a distance (her words not mine but whatever) made her want to change. But I really, really don't believe that. I love her and I always will, but I just don't see that.

For me.... I just plan on continuing to stay out of this. I hate that she thinks it doesn't affect me but I have to let that go. The hardest thing for me is all this guilt I feel. For years we were all living under the notion that if you did something and it hurt someone else's feelings, you are responsible for those persons feelings. And now I'm trying to convince myself that's not true and I'm struggling. I saw plain as day, and knew always, that me pushing her away is hurting her immensely. If I am aware of that and I still do it, shouldn't that mean I should be responsible for how she feels? This is where I get stuck. If a kid hurts his friend's feelings, you'd say "you should apologize" because he's responsible for it. I'm stuck at how I am absolved of this. I'm stuck because all I can hear is her telling me I've been Selfish and knowing that she's right (even if it's for my health).

Sorry for this mess of a post. I am very confused about it all and it feels like my life as a whole and everyone in it is just so uncertain. I guess going forward, I am hoping that Jen does as she says she will and looks into the program's her therapist suggested. I am hoping she gets on any track at all. But that's all I can really do, is hope, and offer to help her if she takes those first steps (which I have serious doubts about). It loving sucks feeling so helpless about it but I just can't let myself dive back in. Ugh.

Not be happiest I know, but it's something - more importantly something even minorly different from all the things my mom did that actually buried us all in this mess. I plan on contuining to talk to Paula and support her as much as I can, hopefully convince her to come to a therapy session with me and see that neithe of us have to carry this guilt forever.

Thank you all again, so much.

tl;dr: Went to therapy with sisters, got some resources for Jen. Jen was very intensely focused on us as a family rather than herself but it seemed to help slightly.. And Paula apologized and took back her expectation that I would contribute financially. I am sticking to my boundaries and trying not to feel as awful as I currently do about that.

# ? May 25, 2018 02:39

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# ? May 30, 2024 12:17

Motronic: Nov 6, 2009

Ham Sandwiches posted:

We don�t fight ever. Just have been arguing

# ? May 25, 2018 02:42

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