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El Gallinero Gros posted:Nash is frequently full of poo poo but WCW is the same company that once sent Chris Jericho a a cheque for $0.39, so he's probably right I distinctly remember at the time of his jump Jericho was reported to say something to the effect that while the downside guarantee was lower, the cut on merchandise sales and bonuses were higher. It wouldn’t surprise me now that all wrestlers were capped at 5% of merchandise sales or Bischoff was listed as the sole creator of the nWo idea on internal Turner documents. While WCW may have been crazy about office poo poo, I imagine that Turner’s licensing and merchandising arm was pretty well run.
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May 21, 2018 23:37
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Halloween Jack posted:Wasn't Jericho also the one who received a FedEx envelope with literally nothing in it? Jericho had to set up his own merchandising because wcw did jackshit for that stuff. He had to come up with his own designs and everything. Nash even said when they first jump shipped that wcw' merchandising program was ghetto and nowhere near as good as wwf's. I think Hogan was the only one with a thorough merchandising program while wcw really didn't bother with anyone else. I remember seeing a commercial for a lex Luger shirt and it looked pretty lovely.
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May 21, 2018 23:56
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So that means Jericho is responsible for the awesome Monday Night Jericho shirt? If so, that explains its greatness. I still want that shirt all these years later.
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May 22, 2018 05:46
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6EQUJ5 6 7 posted:So that means Jericho is responsible for the awesome Monday Night Jericho shirt? If so, that explains its greatness. I still want that shirt all these years later. It was originally sold through his website/fan club.
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May 22, 2018 15:23
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I always liked th jerichohol shirt
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May 22, 2018 17:01
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6EQUJ5 6 7 posted:So that means Jericho is responsible for the awesome Monday Night Jericho shirt? If so, that explains its greatness. I still want that shirt all these years later. He literally had to track down the person in charge of merchandising because the company never made a point to work with anyone on their own stuff. Even then, as previously stated, he made jack poo poo on his own merchandise. Wcw was a strange thing because they had a Rick Steiner shirt and a foam replica of a 2x4 for Jim loving Duggan of all people. Im pretty sure the big perks for coming to wcw was the easier schedule and the guaranteed money anyways. Guys like Nash have no cause for complaint as he was making high 6 figures from the start which I'm sure grew to 7 figures as time went on because of stipulations in his and hall's contracts.
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May 22, 2018 22:41
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The foam 2x4 was his actual 2x4.
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May 22, 2018 23:00
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Who should the 2x4 have been made for?
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May 22, 2018 23:16
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Rusty Shackelford posted:Who should the 2x4 have been made for? Karate master Jerry Flynn
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May 22, 2018 23:31
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Halloween Jack posted:Why can't it be both?
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May 24, 2018 00:38
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I don’t think you understand just how good of a contract hogan got
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May 24, 2018 03:28
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oldpainless posted:I don’t think you understand just how good of a contract hogan got POS gotta put over the POS, brother.
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May 24, 2018 13:54
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From a retro recap of an episode of WCW Proquote:And Ice Train really really really does not make the most of this gift. He looks so bad throughout so much of this. His punches are just impossibly bad. His arm work and Fujiwara armbar are surprisingly good, even tossing out a legdrop to Luger's wing at one point. But then he went and hit the worst drop toe hold I've ever seen. Luger didn't know what it was supposed to be. None of the announcers had any idea what it was supposed to be.
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May 24, 2018 20:18
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El Gallinero Gros posted:From a retro recap of an episode of WCW Pro I love WCW so much
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May 24, 2018 22:56
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Admittedly I'm pretty fresh wrt WCW knowledge, but it seems like a lot of what killed their ratings were silly shock value moves thay dumped on their stories in exchange for short-term views. Maybe they wouldn't have had those ratings in the first place without them, though.
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May 25, 2018 00:27
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Neurolimal posted:Admittedly I'm pretty fresh wrt WCW knowledge, but it seems like a lot of what killed their ratings were silly shock value moves thay dumped on their stories in exchange for short-term views. That and not getting fully behind Goldberg when they had the chance.
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May 25, 2018 00:59
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Neurolimal posted:Admittedly I'm pretty fresh wrt WCW knowledge, but it seems like a lot of what killed their ratings were silly shock value moves thay dumped on their stories in exchange for short-term views. If you go back and watch the first few weeks of Nitro they do basically everything right. They steal talent from WWE (Lex Luger shows up the week after he was on raw if I remember right) and they push a huge focus on what makes them different. They promoted cruiserweights from around the world and a few other things that WWF just wasn't doing at the time. It felt really different and once the NWO ball got rolling it offered something completely different from what else was going on at the time. Their insane budget was one way they did it - but obviously that ended up being a huge problem. Lots of controversial moves did contribute though. Bischoff was determined to be number 1 no matter what he had to do and was always pulling stunts like giving away taped raw results and having former WWE/F guys and women disparage them on air and throw their belts in the garbage etc. If you have the WWE network the monday night wars series is good, though fairly one sided. The book Death Of WCW is a pretty fascinating read too for all of the rise and fall stuff.
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May 25, 2018 02:42
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BubbaGrace posted:Never forget Steiner almost breaking his neck on a regular basis back when he was doing that cradle moonsault poo poo. Anyway enjoy watching Big Booty Daddy back when he could work. I sometimes wonder what happened to this guy after he left wrestling and they replaced his character with another actor who bears absolutely zero facial similarity to him. ColeM posted:Jericho had to set up his own merchandising because wcw did jackshit for that stuff. He had to come up with his own designs and everything. Nash even said when they first jump shipped that wcw' merchandising program was ghetto and nowhere near as good as wwf's. I think I remember from that podcast that when they initially came up with the nWo shirts, the idea was for WCW to sell them in their merch stands as official product, and Nash said that would make them feel like a sanctioned part of the show so instead they just sent guys out with cardboard boxes full of shirts into the parking lot to sell them for cash. No idea if he's just bullshitting, but it's a good story so I choose to believe it.
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May 25, 2018 02:51
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Luger was not big on Raw, he was basically directionless. He was in a tag team work Davey Boy that was awful, and had really lost all shine he once had. That doesn't go against your argument that WCW immediately treated him like a top star or that the fans believed it.
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May 25, 2018 02:56
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Rusty Shackelford posted:Luger was not big on Raw, he was basically directionless. He was in a tag team work Davey Boy that was awful, and had really lost all shine he once had. That doesn't go against your argument that WCW immediately treated him like a top star or that the fans believed it. Yeah it wasn't about him being a huge get - it was more about "What is this guy doing here?!?!" and the anything can happen factor. I watched it unfold at the time and from the time Nitro began through the peak NWO years it was all my wrestle-watching friends would talk about. WCW was 'cool' during a time that WWF was still considered cartoony kids poo poo. Then the attitude era happened, of course.
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May 25, 2018 03:07
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LividLiquid posted:I say this every time this comes up, but what a point of sale system calls an item has nothing at all to do with who gets the royalties from that item. Neurolimal posted:Admittedly I'm pretty fresh wrt WCW knowledge, but it seems like a lot of what killed their ratings were silly shock value moves thay dumped on their stories in exchange for short-term views. (Yeah, this is basically the same argument about why Daniel Bryan was extremely over yet not a draw.) Halloween Jack fucked around with this message at 15:51 on May 25, 2018 |
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May 25, 2018 15:48
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Rusty Shackelford posted:Luger was not big on Raw, he was basically directionless. He was in a tag team work Davey Boy that was awful, and had really lost all shine he once had. That doesn't go against your argument that WCW immediately treated him like a top star or that the fans believed it. OSW's next series is Lex Express baby
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May 25, 2018 16:10
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how did wwf mess up lex so badly? admittedly, i still don't really "get" lex, but crowds in wcw went insane when lex put the rack on. it was like watching people scream at the rock setting up the people's elbow. but nope, wwf couldn't figure out what to do with him. e: admittedly, the people's elbow is a much sillier finisher than the torture rack, but that's not the point.
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May 25, 2018 16:16
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shiksa posted:how did wwf mess up lex so badly? admittedly, i still don't really "get" lex, but crowds in wcw went insane when lex put the rack on. it was like watching people scream at the rock setting up the people's elbow. but nope, wwf couldn't figure out what to do with him. WCW let Lex have a more organic approach, WWE wanted Hogan 2.0. They learned nothing, too, because they tried to do it with Mark Henry for a while.
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May 25, 2018 16:20
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El Gallinero Gros posted:WCW let Lex have a more organic approach, WWE wanted Hogan 2.0. They learned nothing, too, because they tried to do it with Mark Henry for a while. For a more modern example, look at Reigns. WWF/E has always decided who's gonna be the top babyface, and the hell with what the crowd actually wants.
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May 25, 2018 16:40
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When you book a guy to be a failure, fans cool off on him. It happened to Lex in WCW too. Lex's career is basically him getting over, companies going "Actually we don't want you to be a star", Lex going "Okay gently caress you then". rare Magic card l00k fucked around with this message at 17:16 on May 25, 2018 |
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May 25, 2018 17:07
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Randaconda posted:For a more modern example, look at Reigns. Sort of. The stubbornness about who the #1 face will be is similar. But with Hogan, Luger and Henry, it's the exact same play: USA is #1, might makes right, isn't this American flag neat?
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May 25, 2018 17:18
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shiksa posted:how did wwf mess up lex so badly? admittedly, i still don't really "get" lex, but crowds in wcw went insane when lex put the rack on. it was like watching people scream at the rock setting up the people's elbow. but nope, wwf couldn't figure out what to do with him. They had him lose at Summerslam. He probably would have faded after that but that killed him dead when he had some momentum.
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May 25, 2018 17:18
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saw some shameful Jim Duggan disrespect in this thread. He woulda been world champ if it wasn't for Sheik's coke problem you know~
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May 25, 2018 17:48
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MassRafTer posted:They had him lose at Summerslam. He probably would have faded after that but that killed him dead when he had some momentum. If they did actually have him lose by Yokozuna cheating they might have been able to keep him super hot with a title chase though. But instead they had him "win" by countout and celebrate like he just won the title which just showed him to be a huge idiot and it pretty much killed his run dead.
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May 25, 2018 18:10
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Neurolimal posted:Admittedly I'm pretty fresh wrt WCW knowledge, but it seems like a lot of what killed their ratings were silly shock value moves thay dumped on their stories in exchange for short-term views. the shock moves didn't really kill the ratings, they just didn't help them at all but were stupidly costly to do so and were a real net negative a lot of them really only start in the Summer of 1999, but by that point, Raw had caught Nitro in the Summer of 1998, and slowly went past it as the build to Rock/Austin at WM15 started Halloween Jack posted:I'm not saying that WCW died because they didn't push Dean Malenko, but it didn't help that they cemented a sorta class system where the low and midcarders were giving the audience good matches while the main eventers were mostly giving them character work. Although Eddie and Rey will always have a great match together, you can only get excited for it so many times when you absolutely know it won't go anywhere. yeah, basically this is a large part in it, plus when a lot of those disenfranchised guys started showing up in other promotions, it really started to hurt the perception of WCW even then, they did attempt to start doing in 2000 what they should have been doing in 1999, but they waited way too long and a lot of their undercard dudes who were suddenly running the show a) sucked and b) hastily promoted plus WCW and Russo cutting, pissing off, or not featuring them on TV every single major established star not named Sting and Kevin Nash between April and July 2000 is an amazing sight that really hosed them over "Hey we know you like DDP, so instead you're getting Reno"
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May 25, 2018 19:35
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exploded mummy posted:even then, they did attempt to start doing in 2000 what they should have been doing in 1999, but they waited way too long and a lot of their undercard dudes who were suddenly running the show a) sucked and b) hastily promoted
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May 25, 2018 19:52
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WCW died because it failed to provide a profitable alternative to the WWF.
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May 25, 2018 21:58
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coconono posted:WCW died because it failed to provide a profitable alternative to the WWF. I'd add "sustainable", or maybe even replace that other word with it.
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May 25, 2018 22:56
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El Gallinero Gros posted:From a retro recap of an episode of WCW Pro I prefer Jimcy.
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May 25, 2018 22:57
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On the "shock" moves WCW used to pull: An occasional shock move is cool. It keeps things interesting and lends an air of anything can happen, and you won't know when it will happen. But when they pulled more and more of them, and they got more and more shockier, and more and more absurd, then nobody cared, and they actually had the opposite effect. Rather than keeping us interested in a "wow, I wonder what crazy thing will happen next and when it will happen" way, it was "well this stupid thing happened today, but it will be cancelled out by the stupider thing that will happen tomorrow".
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May 27, 2018 05:54
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WCW also changed titles on house shows for the local pop then when they went on TV the next Monday or whatever the titles would have reverted with no mention of the change.
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May 27, 2018 14:26
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CascadeBeta posted:WCW also changed titles on house shows for the local pop then when they went on TV the next Monday or whatever the titles would have reverted with no mention of the change. The only house show title changes I remember were when they traded the TV title around on some how shows and always changed it back at a show before the next Nitro.
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May 27, 2018 16:12
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I was into the Booker T/Benoit series so I remember seeing those house show results posted on some geocities site and being excited to hear about it on nitro. Then they didn't mention it so I assumed the geocities man was a dirty liar.
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May 27, 2018 16:54
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During Lance Storm's On Nitro, this was never even mentioned or recognized and Storm was treated as the uninterrupted champion until he lost to Huge Erection.
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May 27, 2018 16:55
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