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If you put a Romani character in an MCU movie there's a pretty big chance of people thinking it's a made up thing, like Wakanda. Which, in a way, is a good reason to start looking for Romani actors.
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May 25, 2018 04:09
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Unmature posted:Ray Romani This is terrible but I am still giggling.
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May 25, 2018 04:10
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Samuringa posted:If you put a Romani character in an MCU movie there's a pretty big chance of people thinking it's a made up thing, like Wakanda. They'd lose their accent over two movies.
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May 25, 2018 04:13
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There are currently seemingly no Romani actors in Hollywood circles. But there's all kinds of smaller cinema in Europe that we've never heard of. The odds that no Romani people have ever gotten into acting and none today have any interest in it is pretty drat unlikely. You don't have to be able to find them, that's why open casting exists.
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May 25, 2018 04:26
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for like two pages now i thought you guys were talking about romanians
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May 25, 2018 04:26
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Lots of people still have the "Romani/Gypsy are a bunch of dirty thieves/transients" so that alone might motivate an actor of Romani descent to not mention it.
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May 25, 2018 04:35
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Not trying to make a joke or anything, I thought it was Roma? Is that different or is it a shift in the preferred name?
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May 25, 2018 05:38
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As far as I understand, it's both, and sometimes used interchangeably, although "Romani" has become a wee bit more commonly used nowadays because it's more of a catch-call term for the culture as a whole, while "Roma" doesn't technically include some subsets. It's complicated. But, again, both are generally considered "correct" descriptors. BrianWilly fucked around with this message at 06:35 on May 25, 2018 |
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May 25, 2018 06:30
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ethnicity isn't the important part when casting an actor imo, acting is especially when it comes to superheroes
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May 25, 2018 07:05
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Zzulu posted:ethnicity isn't the important part when casting an actor imo, acting is This is incorrect, all superheroes should be cast as either the wrestler or tv sci fi actor that looks closest to the Alex Ross painting, whether they can act. If there is no closet physical match cast HHH
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May 25, 2018 07:15
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They shoulda cast Armie Hammer as Killmonger
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May 25, 2018 07:19
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A.I. Borgland Corp posted:This is incorrect, all superheroes should be cast as either the wrestler or tv sci fi actor that looks closest to the Alex Ross painting, whether they can act. If there is no closet physical match cast HHH Greg Land, casting director.
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May 25, 2018 07:20
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Scaramouche posted:Greg Land, casting director. I was gonna make a joke about casting porn stars, but then I remembered that the Batman porn parody was a better movie than bvs.
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May 25, 2018 08:09
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Bruceski posted:Not trying to make a joke or anything, I thought it was Roma? Is that different or is it a shift in the preferred name? I prefer saying Romani. When I say Roma I feel like I need to roll my R's and gesticulate in Italian.
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May 25, 2018 14:22
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Zzulu posted:ethnicity isn't the important part when casting an actor imo, acting is They're not mutually exclusive concepts, is the thing.
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May 25, 2018 15:42
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Wasn't Doom only Roma so that his mom could be burned for witchcraft (and not because of prejudice, but rather because she was an actual witch)? Feels kinda like how The Mandarin is a really bad idea to actually put on screen as a wispy-mustached Chinese death wizard. I mean if he was a Roma actor portraying him, that'd be awesome, but like I don't want to honor the legacy of racist Marvel writers in the 60s, who only stopped short of giving him horns and making him the seventh son of a seventh son. It'd just be a different kid of papering over the legacy of Marvel's take on their culture. The character's Romani ancestry was literally added so the writers could explain why he knew spells. His ancestry is actually a beacon that says "In the Marvel universe, the Romani people are spellcasters." poo poo who are even the other Romani characters in Marvel again? The Scarlet Witch? Margali? Amanda Sefton/Magik? Kinda sorta Nightcrawler? Marvel's treatment of the Roma is a long history of "This is a proud group of circus witches." theironjef fucked around with this message at 16:42 on May 25, 2018 |
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May 25, 2018 16:26
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Zzulu posted:ethnicity isn't the important part when casting an actor imo, acting is Representation is important, especially if it reflects the viewing audience. And just look at the B.O. to see it paying dividends.
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May 25, 2018 16:44
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Black panther starring all white people cuz what's the diff as long as they act well
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May 25, 2018 16:51
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No you guys are talking about only casting people from Central Africa in Black Panther, you're arguing that in order to represent a culture that actor has to be from said culture. It's like passing on Oscar award winning Cherokee actors because the character is BLACKFOOOOT! Doctor Doom is half Romani half Eastern European, meaning his 23 and Me is little bit Indian, probably a little bit Arab, and whole hell of a lot of different kinds of white. Would I love it if they cast an ethnically ambiguous actor? Of course (I'm sick of generic white men) Do I think they should hold "open" casting in only Romani communities for the most important villain in Marvel comics? No Representation absolutely matters but we probably don't need to fact check people's DNA to do that.
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May 25, 2018 17:26
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Sgt. Politeness posted:It's like passing on Oscar award winning Cherokee actors because the character is BLACKFOOOOT! Okay cool so we agree it's a good idea.
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May 25, 2018 17:37
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So we shouldn't even try to give consideration to represent a particular ethnicity cuz one euro is as good as another? Like I guess i don't see what the harm is in looking first for a Romani actor to play a Romani character before devolving into well this guy has an accent good enough E: of course this is a Sony movie so there's a 95% chance they hire the most generic white guy for the role so this is all academic anyways site fucked around with this message at 17:51 on May 25, 2018 |
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May 25, 2018 17:43
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theironjef posted:Wasn't Doom only Roma so that his mom could be burned for witchcraft (and not because of prejudice, but rather because she was an actual witch)? Feels kinda like how The Mandarin is a really bad idea to actually put on screen as a wispy-mustached Chinese death wizard. There's no reason that we would need to bring all those problematic elements to an adaptation of Victor Von Doom, even if we keep his Romani background. I don't think that whatever Fantastic Four movie he appears in next, for instance, needs to go into a fifteen minute explanation of how his mother totes made a bunch of deals with demons and all that. It sucks that these characters have racist rationales for their ethnicity, and I totally think there are cases where these offensive concepts in fiction just cannot be redeemed or reclaimed, but like...they're here, and we kinda have to find a way to deal with it. So the options we have available to us in terms of "dealing with it" are A) to just shuffle them off to limbo forever and never use them again -- in which case we have zero Romani characters being represented -- or B) to somehow reinterpret/retcon their ethnicities into something else -- in which case, again, we have zero Romani characters being represented -- or, C) we find a way to do these characters right while still retaining their heritage, to reclaim it into something less offensive or more empowering. And in the case of Doctor Doom specifically, it's like...this is a character that people really really like, and he is Romani. This is a Romani character who just so happens to be one of the most popular characters of all time, who's a complex and compelling character, who's been done justice by some of the best writers in the industry over and over again. I feel like there's value in that, regardless of him being a supervillain, regardless of him having some racist roots, and the answer here isn't to turn him into just another white guy and say "Ah, we fixed him!" as if the problem is his Romani ethnicity in itself, and not the way that this ethnicity has been represented in the past. Like, this guy can be a genius inventor, a master of anything he sets his mind to, who dragged himself up from poverty and obscurity to become the literal ruler of his home nation, and all around intimidating badass that all the nerds moisten their pants for...but we can't have him be Roma on top of that? We have to hide it away, try to brush it off or outright retcon it, as if it's some dirty little secret that makes the character worse? That's really shady to me. To go back to the Killmonger example: like, this guy is an angry, narcissistic, violent black ops terrorist from the hood. And audiences love him and feel for him and buy into his cause. No one is upset at Ryan Coogler for perpetuating negative black stereotypes through this character...rather, the fact that those stereotypes exist merely informs the character and is kind of the point of his story. I won't believe that no one would be able to do something similar with Dr. Doom, to use his background as a member of a heavily-persecuted minority group to better inform the character and justify his deeds throughout whatever film he appears in next, and that they would be able to do it without having everyone think "Ah, so Doom is clearly just an evil gypsy witch child and that's all that we have to glean from his background." BrianWilly fucked around with this message at 21:12 on May 25, 2018 |
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May 25, 2018 17:50
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BrianWilly posted:Like, this guy can be a genius inventor, a master of anything he sets his mind to, who dragged himself up from poverty and obscurity to become the literal ruler of his home nation, and all around intimidating badass that all the nerds moisten their pants for...but we can't have him be Roma on top of that? We have to hide it away, try to brush it off or outright retcon it, as if it's some dirty little secret that makes the character worse? That's really shady to me. I think honestly we're entirely in agreement, but this is my one issue. If we leave him Romani but just set aside why he was Romani, we're still brushing it off and retconning it. He was Romani, sadly, for a bad reason. And that bad reason needs to be identified and recognized. Basically he needs to either lose the heritage, or celebrate the heritage (and lose the magic). I'd prefer the second one, I guess?
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May 25, 2018 18:35
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Jettisoning the magic wouldn't be a big deal to anyone not a hardcore reader I would think, I bet 9 out of 10 people you ask wouldn't even know he does magic
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May 25, 2018 18:43
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site posted:Jettisoning the magic wouldn't be a big deal to anyone not a hardcore reader I would think, I bet 9 out of 10 people you ask wouldn't even know he does magic gently caress no. I want a Dr. Strange and Dr. Doom Torment and Triumph movie adaptation.
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May 25, 2018 18:44
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Well the good thing here is that magic, sorcerers, and the method by which sorcerers might learn magic are all already already established in this universe. So if Doom appears in this universe, we can just have him learn magic the exact same way Strange did and we're good to go. No need to dive deep into notions of him having magical heritage or whatever because he's Roma. Although I might propose the idea that you might still have Doom's mother be a sorceress in the MCU and not have it be all that problematic because, again, we've already established that magic is just a skillset that plenty of different people from all over the world have tapped into. So if one woman in Latveria just so happened to be able to do something vaguely similar to what all those sorcerers were doing at the Ancient One's place it'd be like...sure? Fine? I'm not saying it has to be done that way, mind you, just saying that there are plenty of ways to do this and it's not really a perfectly black and white "this way is good, and this other way is bad" scenario. BrianWilly fucked around with this message at 19:03 on May 25, 2018 |
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May 25, 2018 19:01
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I can't shake the feeling that if the only Romani character in the MCU just happens to be evil and a wizard (basically halfway to the big Romani stereotype) that maybe, just maybe nobody should call that a win. And as far as making him not a wizard, you can't be an Event Villain in a world with Wizard Heroes unless you can effectively counter them. He's gotta be, if not a wizard, at least wizard-adjacent.
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May 25, 2018 20:11
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Plastik posted:And as far as making him not a wizard, you can't be an Event Villain in a world with Wizard Heroes unless you can effectively counter them. He's gotta be, if not a wizard, at least wizard-adjacent. im not quite following this
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May 25, 2018 20:24
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site posted:im not quite following this Every event villain will need to either be a wizard or have a way of dealing with wizards from here on out or Doctor Strange and Co will eat them for lunch. Doesn't seem hard to follow.
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May 25, 2018 20:30
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but like, you can just make up any bullshit reason why he can counter strange without him having to be a sorcerer himself. just say he has super tech or some poo poo
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May 25, 2018 20:42
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site posted:but like, you can just make up any bullshit reason why he can counter strange without him having to be a sorcerer himself. just say he has super tech or some poo poo Hence "wizard-adjacent".
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May 25, 2018 20:43
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Or, you know, Dr Strange has other poo poo he's dealing with
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May 25, 2018 20:45
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Plastik posted:Hence "wizard-adjacent". if your definition of wizard-adjacent is just "can beat magic" thats pretty much so broad as to be meaningless
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May 25, 2018 20:46
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technically you can just shoot dr strange in the head and he'll die I don't think he has like super reflexes or anything
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May 25, 2018 21:09
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site posted:if your definition of wizard-adjacent is just "can beat magic" thats pretty much so broad as to be meaningless I'd continue the derail but historically you're about as dense as a neutron star so yes, good job, my definition of wizard-adjacent is meaningless.
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May 25, 2018 21:15
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Zzulu posted:technically you can just shoot dr strange in the head and he'll die The cloak probably does.
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May 25, 2018 21:27
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Zzulu posted:technically you can just shoot dr strange in the head and he'll die I thought Infinity War did a good job of laying out that Strange is simultaneously crazy powerful and super fragile, in that he got schooled super-hard in the first fight he was in by a telekinetic and an Axe-Hulk. He can do crazy poo poo, but dude's got the delicate constitution of a surgeon.
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May 25, 2018 21:32
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He just needs to cast stoneskin
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May 25, 2018 21:44
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Zzulu posted:technically you can just shoot dr strange in the head and he'll die It wouldn't stick. Dr. Strange has the superpower of being a highly-marketable character, which means he can only die for real if his actor refuses to play him anymore. Edit: OTOH, any scientist badguy can disable him easily, if the script calls for it. Just say "something something, nanites, something something, quantum" and you're basically good to go. Random Asshole fucked around with this message at 21:53 on May 25, 2018 |
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May 25, 2018 21:49
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Plastik posted:I'd continue the derail but historically you're about as dense as a neutron star so yes, good job, my definition of wizard-adjacent is meaningless. k, bye felicia i guess doom has been beaten by reed richards for 50 years cuz reed actually uses magic
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May 25, 2018 21:54
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