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Sounds like classic overextension to me.
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May 12, 2018 14:09
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This reminds me of that time he Kickstarted a game called "Blades in the Dark" and touted its extensive playtesting, then changed a whole bunch of stuff in the game when he actually did playtesting.
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May 12, 2018 14:13
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Macdeo Lurjtux posted:Did the dark fantasy military hack modeled Black Company and Malayan ever get finished? I can personally attest that Band of Blades is in playtesting and is probably near release; I've seen it run at Big Bad Con, and know people who are on the playtesting list. It also looks loving rad and will have been worth the wait. In fact, you can apparently watch a playtest campaign of it run by the designer here, although I haven't seen it yet and can't vouch for the quality of the players.
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May 12, 2018 19:03
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Kestral posted:I can personally attest that Band of Blades is in playtesting and is probably near release; I've seen it run at Big Bad Con, and know people who are on the playtesting list. It also looks loving rad and will have been worth the wait. In fact, you can apparently watch a playtest campaign of it run by the designer here, although I haven't seen it yet and can't vouch for the quality of the players. Thank you for linking this. It has made me so much more interested in this product. Is there any sort of written out stuff available thus far? I am a backer of BiTD if that helps?
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May 15, 2018 23:13
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Flavivirus posted:I reckon so, though it's a little disappointing how little on that list is done. It's to be missing A Nocturne, though, which actually seems to be coming along pretty nicely. I think the main culprit behind the missing Kickstarter hacks is that the game itself was in development for so long. It wasn't officially done until relatively recently (when the KS was, by now, a few years ago). So during that time Harper was busy developing the game rather than cracking the whip on his friends, and during that time those designers (who themselves are busy people with their own stuff going on) weren't necessarily focused on a hack project for a game that wasn't done yet, which kept receding into the past the further we got from the KS campaign.
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May 21, 2018 19:44
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Making promises on something that doesn’t exist yet seems like a dumb idea, but that’s basically Kickstarter’s MO, so meh.
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May 21, 2018 21:08
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Just saw Hack the Planet, looks fantastic as a cyberpunk hack of BitD but I missed the kickstarter and there's no way to buy even the beta at this stage 
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May 22, 2018 23:23
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quote:Will this project be on Backerkit or Pledgemanger? Yeah that's a shame. Does look interesting. The art looks great, little wary of it being by the same people as the Veil but I'm cautiously optimistic. Estimated delivery is Jan 2019, so we're way out on this project. And sounds like they have a lot of work left to do based on the updates I skimmed. So I wouldn't be surprised by a decent delay (but this isn't also their first effort, so maybe not). DemonMage fucked around with this message at 23:45 on May 22, 2018 |
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May 22, 2018 23:42
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What I want most is a really good Shadowrun hack for Blades in the Dark. I'm one of those "the setting is cool but I just can't make myself care about the system" babies when it comes to Shadowrun, and the Blades in the Dark framework seems downright perfect for a more narrative take. I know someone's been working on one for a while but I have no idea if it's any good (reading over the latest draft of the playbooks suggests the writer is kinda committing the "bad PbtA hack" sin of writing way too many special moves without really understanding how the whole system works).
Harrow fucked around with this message at 14:25 on May 25, 2018 |
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May 25, 2018 14:23
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Harrow posted:What I want most is a really good Shadowrun hack for Blades in the Dark. I'm one of those "the setting is cool but I just can't make myself care about the system" babies when it comes to Shadowrun, and the Blades in the Dark framework seems downright perfect for a more narrative take. I know someone's been working on one for a while but I have no idea if it's any good (reading over the latest draft of the playbooks suggests the writer is kinda committing the "bad PbtA hack" sin of writing way too many special moves without really understanding how the whole system works). Runners in the Dark is now Karma in the Dark, https://www.casskdesigns.com/
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May 25, 2018 14:30
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There's also Runners in the Shadows which may be hewing too close to Shadowrun's crunch for not much reward.
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May 25, 2018 17:06
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Does anyone have a link to the Karma in the Dark files? The cassk website seems to not work
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May 25, 2018 20:32
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Working fine here, the Drive link for the main rules is: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1ZUUqq-04qNdFbDvwZIfgObpzhjWpawS5/view Characters: https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/17MmYAY_3rW-KTUG7U_X5ESpPtrYTQu29?usp=sharing Teams: https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1TmJVPofp2zZCJEqH0Ny8K-5wQCqGogV0?usp=sharing
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May 25, 2018 21:30
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DemonMage posted:Working fine here, the Drive link for the main rules is: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1ZUUqq-04qNdFbDvwZIfgObpzhjWpawS5/view Is there anything like this available for Band of Blades and/or can I contact the creator? I think my group might be up for a game in the near future and would like to test it out.
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May 25, 2018 21:39
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Nope. Band of Blades is still private beta only as far as I know. Only public stuff has been a couple con games/the YouTube videos. That said: https://twitter.com/strasa/status/1000063364293275648 I imagine that's BoB related.
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May 26, 2018 00:47
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Someone did a simple 40K hack, Blades of the Inquisition. It's Dark Heresy based with one crew type, a page of conversion notes, and 8 playbooks. https://plus.google.com/+RoosterEma/posts/S2xTFa4upM5 On a first read, it looks like a good hack.
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May 26, 2018 18:46
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Also re: stretch goals, someone called out John on the G+ and he had this to say:John Harper posted:I can't force other authors to produce content. I can only control my own work. Which is pretty much what we all figured anyways.
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May 27, 2018 09:16
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Quite the call-out though. Feels like maybe he should ask the other authors to either commit to milestone dates or bow out.
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May 27, 2018 16:06
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mllaneza posted:Someone did a simple 40K hack, Blades of the Inquisition. It's Dark Heresy based with one crew type, a page of conversion notes, and 8 playbooks. This could be a terrible hack, and I'd still wanna play it.
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May 28, 2018 06:27
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Judging by Harper's posts, most (or all) third-party stretch goals were intended as unpaid work from the very beginning; thus, no financial relations with their authors, meaning no hard obligations or supervision. So, the situation right now now is kinda sorta a logical outcome. I don't know, it just sounds terribly counter-intuitive to me to tie their unlocking to the financial progress of the crowdfunding campaign - and then make it so that the extra funds totally do not count for the creators themselves. (Also, it's pretty crappy that this small yet important detail has been quietly kept under the rug until now).
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May 28, 2018 07:11
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Foglet posted:Judging by Harper's posts, most (or all) third-party stretch goals were intended as unpaid work from the very beginning; thus, no financial relations with their authors, meaning no hard obligations or supervision. So, the situation right now now is kinda sorta a logical outcome. Not compensating writers is bullshit. Yeeeeeeeah. If I was ever dumb enough to take on actually unpaid work (rather than writing stretch goals then not getting paid because the creator didn't bother fulfilling his kickstarter obligations), I'd totally not give a gently caress about fulfilling until I got bored enough that nothing better presented itself. I'm talking "right, all my socks are paired, I've cleaned the attic, learned Swahili... might as well do that unpaid crap". And even then it's fifty-fifty. I wonder if the writers had some expectation of recompense post-release? If they signed up knowing they'd get gently caress-all then they're idiots.
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May 28, 2018 10:20
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DigitalRaven posted:Not compensating writers is bullshit. The plan may have been to flesh them out into books in their own right and the sell them, like Scum and Villainy is doing, but they have to be done first for that, and like you said, unpaid motivation is pants.
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May 28, 2018 14:26
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Where is it saying it’s unpaid?
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May 28, 2018 14:49
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Comrade Gorbash posted:Where is it saying it’s unpaid? Benjamin Brown 3 days ago So, to be clear, the stretch goals were going to be unpaid work from some pretty notable industry figures in exchange for ownership of their content and... exposure, I guess? John Harper (Creator) 2 days ago @Benjamin: Yes, that's very common. I've made stretch goals for several of those authors, also without payment. Not for exposure, but because I was excited to work on the project and wanted to support it with my efforts.
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May 28, 2018 15:00
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Foglet posted:John Harper (Creator) 2 days ago gently caress that poo poo, that's completely inexcusable. The dude pulled at least $162000 after Kickstater's cut, he can drat well afford to pay contributing authors a reasonable rate. Lemon-Lime fucked around with this message at 15:38 on May 28, 2018 |
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May 28, 2018 15:31
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Support it with his efforts? idgi
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May 28, 2018 15:33
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I'm not sure why in an industry that's spent years being functionally a hobby for a significant proportion of it, people are surprised or shocked that it's partly a hobby.Subjunctive posted:Support it with his efforts? idgi He liked the games other people made so he wrote stuff for them for free. He's asked other people, several of whom he's done so before, to do the same for him. This is what a hobbyist industry looks like. Look at how internet artists, even ones who work for commission, draw fanart or bonus works of each other's characters because they like the design.
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May 28, 2018 15:36
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spectralent posted:He liked the games other people made so he wrote stuff for them for free. He's asked other people, several of whom he's done so before, to do the same for him. Ah, I missed the other-games context, thanks.
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May 28, 2018 15:39
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Every time I sit down to make a new game, I think of poo poo like this and wonder why I bother. gently caress this industry.
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May 28, 2018 16:44
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I also like the "IF any of the authors of the other stretch goals bow out of their commitments, I will replace them with other authors so those stretch goals will be completed" part; I presume the replacement will be based on the same unpaid principle, keeping the full potential for the story to repeat (otherwise, if he means he will pay the new authors, why not just pay the ones he has?)
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May 29, 2018 05:49
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Foglet posted:I also like the "IF any of the authors of the other stretch goals bow out of their commitments, I will replace them with other authors so those stretch goals will be completed" part; I presume the replacement will be based on the same unpaid principle, keeping the full potential for the story to repeat (otherwise, if he means he will pay the new authors, why not just pay the ones he has?) And, wait, if he can just swap out authors for the stretch goals, doesn't that put the lie to the idea they're being compensated with full rights to their work instead of money? A bunch of hacks is right.
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May 29, 2018 06:13
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If they're not getting paid then why were they stretch goals? It's all super lovely tbh. You'd think an indie dev would know how hard it is to make money in the industry and pay his godamn writers but there we go.
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May 29, 2018 06:22
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There's been a couple of replies on G+, I think it makes sense to quote them here in their entirety.John Harper posted:As I said on the KS comments, this kind of trade of work among designers was very common on RPG kickstarters. I did work for Dungeon World, Undying, and some other KS projects without pay. My friends volunteered to make stuff for my project, so I said yes. Putting that kind of extra content up as a stretch goal was the default method for KS projects in my circle at the time. Stras Acimovic posted:Lex. A couple of things.
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May 29, 2018 08:22
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Well they can gently caress themselves with rusty spikes. The reason nobody's lashed back about it before now is because nobody knew that these idiots were working without contracts and without compensation. And it may be common among a certain subset of indie authors, but it really shouldn't be and by their efforts they are loving the rest of us — writers who cannot afford to waste time and effort without compensation. You just know that if Person A volunteers to write a stretch goal for nothing and Person B says "Sure, I'll do it for $X" then Person B ain't getting a look in. All because Person B has a normal attitude towards work. Must be lovely to have the time and energy and financial security to spunk out thousands of words for no recompense. This is a fundamentally toxic attitude to have. It's why it's so hard for indie game designers who aren't willing to work for free have such a hard time getting known (and thus getting sales). It's also part of why games are so cheap — nobody's going to pay a writer a competitive rate when so many of these fucks are willing to work for free. This is the indie equivalent of established games paying poo poo: they don't have to pay more than 1c a word when they've a pool of fans desperate for work for the love of seeing their name on a product (and the fan-authority that comes with that) and wouldn't know a competitive word rate if it bit them on the arse. If you can pay your writers, do. If you can't, don't offer their work as rewards. And don't ever pretend that doing work for free is normal, because when you do you gently caress over those of us who need money for little luxuries like rent and food. Take your bougie hipster attitude towards real work and gently caress off you worthless bastards.
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May 29, 2018 10:48
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Reading John’s post, it sounds a bit like he realizes that the industry has moved on from that practice. I might be interpreting it too charitably, though.
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May 29, 2018 11:05
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To be fair, I see it as less like "make it for us so that we''ll be able to sell it as ours" and more like "make it for yourself so that you're able to sell it as yours", the difference being that the latter has much less of a "do a part of our work for exposure" undertone. But yeah, all the "that's just how we rolled back then in the darkest ages of 2015" and "please don't demand schedules or obligations to finish things from Kickstarter projects" noise sounds awfully... unprofessional (yeah, I'm aware of the irony, hobbyist industry and all). A person in the comments - an FitD author, no idea whether it's for one of the stretch goals - is saying: quote:I think some expectations for KS TTRPGs are set by Kevin Crawford. He recently stated that some of his productivity is because he uses a simple and well established game system, OSR.
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May 29, 2018 11:45
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I totally get how waiting for two years (and getting no money out of it) would lead to serious delays in any follow-up material, but either way John's at fault for what happened. Hopefully the people who backed for particular stretch goals will get something close to what they wanted. Speaking of, has there been any updates on the final release of Scum and Villainy?
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May 29, 2018 12:38
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Yes, actually: https://twitter.com/EvilHatOfficial/status/1000756851095433217
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May 29, 2018 12:42
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I'm pretty confused here. If the stretch goal money wasn't being paid to the authors to produce material, where was it going? What was the point of them being stretch goals? If the person was going to work for free anyways, why add the extra money requirement? Seems like a real backwards rear end thing to do.
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May 29, 2018 12:48
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Serf posted:I'm pretty confused here. If the stretch goal money wasn't being paid to the authors to produce material, where was it going? What was the point of them being stretch goals? If the person was going to work for free anyways, why add the extra money requirement? Seems like a real backwards rear end thing to do. A Google+ commenter posted:That's not how Kickstarter works. You don't pay for a service, and unlocking stretch goals does not pay for the content of those stretch goals.
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May 29, 2018 12:58
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