- Wirth1000
- May 12, 2010
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#essereFerrari
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What's wrong with this thread???
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May 28, 2018 21:06
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- Adbot
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ADBOT LOVES YOU
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Jun 3, 2024 14:23
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- Feels Villeneuve
- Oct 7, 2007
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Setter is Better.
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I love this thread and all my posting friends.
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May 28, 2018 21:11
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- simble
- May 11, 2004
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lol if you aren’t doing your own exhaustive post race analysis and stat tracking
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May 28, 2018 21:16
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- Tsaedje
- May 11, 2007
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BRAWNY BUTTONS 4 LYFE
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I don't even have a spreadsheet this year
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May 28, 2018 21:19
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- Literally Lewis Hamilton
- Feb 22, 2005
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Absolutely go gently caress yourself.
The Frenchman vs the Terrible Hair
Gap to leader
Lap time in seconds
Lewis is lapping significantly faster in the initial phase of the race, pits for fresher tires, and remains significantly faster. Ocon pits, Lewis starts to try and "manage" his tires (whines about them on radio) and Ocon bridges the gap a little in clean air. Lewis tries to attack Vettel for a couple laps as Vettel makes another 4 lap attack on Ricciardo, quickly backs off to bitch about his tires some more, Ocon continues to enjoy mostly clean running. The only reason it tightened up in the end is because Mercedes still don't get the tires and Lewis was trying to do like 69 (niiiiiiiice) laps on Ultrasofts, something Pirelli designed the Supersofts to do.
At no point in that early phase was holding up Hamilton going to be remotely in Ocon's advantage. You can call out the fact Toto Wolff had a conversation with Szafnauer or "Messeur or Madame Whogivesashit" as much as you want, until there's evidence otherwise you're just parroting the dumb talking points Sky used to try and liven up a dull point in a tense if unspectacular race.
Here are the laptimes and gap-to-leader times that Lance Stroll had.
Gap to leader
Lap time, in seconds
I've thrown in Max, because he was the actual fastest driver on the course and Sergei Sirotkin because he's the closest "I'm not getting blues here" driver to Lance Stroll (although I don't think Stroll was actively lapped by that many drivers, I think he mostly got lapped during his trips to the pits).
Stroll got a heap of time for a couple of laps because he was on Hypersofts and had an overabundance of clean air; He didn't, at any stage, get 40 loving laps worth of 5-7 seconds a lap advantage in one pit stop (he had to pit 3 times, the latter two for fresh Hypers). In both of his "enforced" pitstops (he punctured his Supers in lap 34 and had to go to fresh Hypers, which meant he had to pit in lap 59 for another pair of Hypers) the same thing happens - he warms the tires, gets a 3-4 lap burst of 4 seconds that degrades to the plateau in 4 laps and then chugs along until the end of the stint.
I know what you're saying though: "Lance is a binman (two punctures? come on buddy) driving a shitbox (temperature warnings all race? come on Williams), show me a real driver!", and don't worry, we'll get to that.
The one-stop strategy dominates at like 90% of the tracks this season and it's largely because the total gain is negligible compared to losing track position and potentially ruining a new set of tires; track position is King in Modern F1 and it's not just a Monaco thing. That's partly because Mercedes (and presumably Ferrari, to a point) have purpose built their car to work significantly better in clean air, to the extreme detriment of it's aerodynamic package's ability to follow and overtake, partly because the engines don't like the heat given off by the exhaust of a car in front and partly because the tires have ridiculously specific temperature windows because Pirelli have overengineered this and hosed it all.
None of the above is likely to change.
Here's Max and the Train.
Gap to leader
Lap time in seconds
Red dot = overtake while they were pitting, Blue dot = overtake on track
Long story short, Max was never close enough to go for big time overtakes on other drivers other than Hulkenburg - who had a bit of pace himself - and Sainz, who had a garbageman day. His Hypers lasted a lot longer than I think anyone would've predicted, but even then we're talking maybe 30 seconds of total advantage on the dominant chassis which was already noted pre-race to be treating it's tires supremely well, which ground to a halt behind Hulkenburg and required imaginative use of track widths to get past sainz. By the time Max catches the Finntrain it's so big that he's got no chance of getting through it at Monaco, but his laptimes have already started completely disintegrating.
Let's go into the Hypothetical, Seb switches to the Hypers and gets Max's 12 laps of burst. If he comes in in lap 64, to maximise his burst (2 laps of warm up, 12 laps of balls to the wall) he comes out of the pits behind the finntrain and has to get through 6 drivers, including two Mercedes, to get back to a position to attack Ricciardo. Lets uhh... let's scrap that.
Let's say lap 54 then - there's a 28 second gap back to Ocon, let's say Vettel puts in a Superman-esque in-lap and comes out 2 seconds in front of Ocon. He still has to get by his main championship rival's teammate, his main championship rival and then hope there's enough left in the tires, the battery and the fuel tank to get him by Ricciardo, whose performance in Austria last year leaves no doubt that he's handy driving defensively.
Let's take this away from Monaco, even at Silverstone I don't see him making that stick. And it's not because Monaco is a procession, it's because the tires aren't 4-5s a lap for 10 laps quicker, they're 4s a lap quicker for 1 lap, then degrading so that by lap 10 you're maybe 1/2 a second quicker, maybe. New tires might get you 25-30 seconds, but they're gonna cost you at least 25 seconds and if something goes wrong you're hosed. By driving so slowly, Dan actually (probably inadvertently) took the extra stop off the table because it meant Seb didn't have a window to fall back into and ultimately that works on any circuit where you have the absolute dominance in the bendy bits the way Dan had.
Forgot to say, the reason pitting for Hypers at 54 was a huge gamble had to do with the fact that you're pushing them past the 20 lap recommended run time; sure there's less fuel and more rubber on track, but in theory you're still gambling on either getting a huge gap or a safety car to bring it into the genuinely safe zone. Hulkenburg and Verstappen disproved this, but if you're Ferrari you'd have to be seriously wondering if it's worth it.
Did you get any of that, or are you a big dumb baby?
All graphs pulled from here.
Nice meltdown, I didn’t read any of this post
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May 28, 2018 21:27
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- track day bro!
- Feb 17, 2005
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#essereFerrari
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Grimey Drawer
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*In Sebastian Vettel voice, ie an extremely cool one* Honestly, that post is some reddit tier poo poo. Blue flag, blue flag.
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May 28, 2018 21:34
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- Full Collapse
- Dec 4, 2002
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Watched a bit of the race on F1 TV ProTM and, yeah, I'm not big on races decided by pit strategy, but the pictures were neat.
btw, Crofty is a oval office who needs to keep quiet. I want to hear the drivers (people more important than you (yes, even Lance)) are talking.
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May 28, 2018 22:06
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- wuffles
- Apr 10, 2004
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Watched a bit of the race on F1 TV ProTM and, yeah, I'm not big on races decided by pit strategy, but the pictures were neat.
btw, Crofty is a oval office who needs to keep quiet. I want to hear the drivers (people more important than you (yes, even Lance)) are talking.
Have they ironed out the kinks in that service yet or was it still a poo poo show like people were complaining about during the launch @ the Spanish GP?
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May 28, 2018 22:46
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- Full Collapse
- Dec 4, 2002
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I watched it on replay. I was at IMS on Sunday and you can't even watch through a mobile browser (Liberty won't let you).
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May 28, 2018 22:59
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- Frond
- Mar 12, 2018
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Yes.
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May 28, 2018 23:02
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- DoctorGonzo
- Jul 25, 2016
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by Jeffrey of YOSPOS
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Ferrari mainly, the existence of and fans of
Get the gently caress out of this thread
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May 28, 2018 23:07
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- DoctorGonzo
- Jul 25, 2016
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by Jeffrey of YOSPOS
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That post is informative but without shitposting is a drag to read. Honestly what are we doing here?
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May 28, 2018 23:30
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- Rev. Dr. Moses P. Lester
- Oct 3, 2000
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Is that the one that Oliver Penis won?
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May 28, 2018 23:40
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- Khablam
- Mar 29, 2012
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Absolutely go gently caress yourself.
The Frenchman vs the Terrible Hair
Gap to leader
Lap time in seconds
Lewis is lapping significantly faster in the initial phase of the race, pits for fresher tires, and remains significantly faster. Ocon pits, Lewis starts to try and "manage" his tires (whines about them on radio) and Ocon bridges the gap a little in clean air. Lewis tries to attack Vettel for a couple laps as Vettel makes another 4 lap attack on Ricciardo, quickly backs off to bitch about his tires some more, Ocon continues to enjoy mostly clean running. The only reason it tightened up in the end is because Mercedes still don't get the tires and Lewis was trying to do like 69 (niiiiiiiice) laps on Ultrasofts, something Pirelli designed the Supersofts to do.
At no point in that early phase was holding up Hamilton going to be remotely in Ocon's advantage. You can call out the fact Toto Wolff had a conversation with Szafnauer or "Messeur or Madame Whogivesashit" as much as you want, until there's evidence otherwise you're just parroting the dumb talking points Sky used to try and liven up a dull point in a tense if unspectacular race.
Here are the laptimes and gap-to-leader times that Lance Stroll had.
Gap to leader
Lap time, in seconds
I've thrown in Max, because he was the actual fastest driver on the course and Sergei Sirotkin because he's the closest "I'm not getting blues here" driver to Lance Stroll (although I don't think Stroll was actively lapped by that many drivers, I think he mostly got lapped during his trips to the pits).
Stroll got a heap of time for a couple of laps because he was on Hypersofts and had an overabundance of clean air; He didn't, at any stage, get 40 loving laps worth of 5-7 seconds a lap advantage in one pit stop (he had to pit 3 times, the latter two for fresh Hypers). In both of his "enforced" pitstops (he punctured his Supers in lap 34 and had to go to fresh Hypers, which meant he had to pit in lap 59 for another pair of Hypers) the same thing happens - he warms the tires, gets a 3-4 lap burst of 4 seconds that degrades to the plateau in 4 laps and then chugs along until the end of the stint.
I know what you're saying though: "Lance is a binman (two punctures? come on buddy) driving a shitbox (temperature warnings all race? come on Williams), show me a real driver!", and don't worry, we'll get to that.
The one-stop strategy dominates at like 90% of the tracks this season and it's largely because the total gain is negligible compared to losing track position and potentially ruining a new set of tires; track position is King in Modern F1 and it's not just a Monaco thing. That's partly because Mercedes (and presumably Ferrari, to a point) have purpose built their car to work significantly better in clean air, to the extreme detriment of it's aerodynamic package's ability to follow and overtake, partly because the engines don't like the heat given off by the exhaust of a car in front and partly because the tires have ridiculously specific temperature windows because Pirelli have overengineered this and hosed it all.
None of the above is likely to change.
Here's Max and the Train.
Gap to leader
Lap time in seconds
Red dot = overtake while they were pitting, Blue dot = overtake on track
Long story short, Max was never close enough to go for big time overtakes on other drivers other than Hulkenburg - who had a bit of pace himself - and Sainz, who had a garbageman day. His Hypers lasted a lot longer than I think anyone would've predicted, but even then we're talking maybe 30 seconds of total advantage on the dominant chassis which was already noted pre-race to be treating it's tires supremely well, which ground to a halt behind Hulkenburg and required imaginative use of track widths to get past sainz. By the time Max catches the Finntrain it's so big that he's got no chance of getting through it at Monaco, but his laptimes have already started completely disintegrating.
Let's go into the Hypothetical, Seb switches to the Hypers and gets Max's 12 laps of burst. If he comes in in lap 64, to maximise his burst (2 laps of warm up, 12 laps of balls to the wall) he comes out of the pits behind the finntrain and has to get through 6 drivers, including two Mercedes, to get back to a position to attack Ricciardo. Lets uhh... let's scrap that.
Let's say lap 54 then - there's a 28 second gap back to Ocon, let's say Vettel puts in a Superman-esque in-lap and comes out 2 seconds in front of Ocon. He still has to get by his main championship rival's teammate, his main championship rival and then hope there's enough left in the tires, the battery and the fuel tank to get him by Ricciardo, whose performance in Austria last year leaves no doubt that he's handy driving defensively.
Let's take this away from Monaco, even at Silverstone I don't see him making that stick. And it's not because Monaco is a procession, it's because the tires aren't 4-5s a lap for 10 laps quicker, they're 4s a lap quicker for 1 lap, then degrading so that by lap 10 you're maybe 1/2 a second quicker, maybe. New tires might get you 25-30 seconds, but they're gonna cost you at least 25 seconds and if something goes wrong you're hosed. By driving so slowly, Dan actually (probably inadvertently) took the extra stop off the table because it meant Seb didn't have a window to fall back into and ultimately that works on any circuit where you have the absolute dominance in the bendy bits the way Dan had.
Forgot to say, the reason pitting for Hypers at 54 was a huge gamble had to do with the fact that you're pushing them past the 20 lap recommended run time; sure there's less fuel and more rubber on track, but in theory you're still gambling on either getting a huge gap or a safety car to bring it into the genuinely safe zone. Hulkenburg and Verstappen disproved this, but if you're Ferrari you'd have to be seriously wondering if it's worth it.
Did you get any of that, or are you a big dumb baby?
All graphs pulled from here.
loving lmao your own timing suggests ocon would have beaten lewis had lewis spent ANY time behind ocon
hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
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May 29, 2018 00:10
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- F1DriverQuidenBerg
- Jan 19, 2014
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loving lmao your own timing suggests ocon would have beaten lewis had lewis spent ANY time behind ocon
hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
Good rebuttal with lots of factual analysis demonstrating your thesis. A+
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May 29, 2018 00:12
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- Khablam
- Mar 29, 2012
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Good rebuttal with lots of factual analysis demonstrating your thesis. A+
My rebuttal is
"car behind car better than car in front of car, car behind lose"
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May 29, 2018 00:14
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- DoctorGonzo
- Jul 25, 2016
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by Jeffrey of YOSPOS
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I dont understand
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May 29, 2018 00:21
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- Wirth1000
- May 12, 2010
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#essereFerrari
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jsM-OyRJTQc
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May 29, 2018 00:51
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- Frond
- Mar 12, 2018
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That was Brabham's last good race.
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May 29, 2018 00:58
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- BubbaGrace
- Jul 14, 2006
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I would if you had any to call out Alonso instead of blindly fawning over him
I'm not the guy you are referring to but I feel your sentiment here. I wasn't a fan of his for a long time. When he came back to McLaren I started to warm on him rather quickly. The day we seen him trying to push his car in to the pits so he could get one more run really sold me on the guy. Fast forward until about 6 months ago. Around the time Kimoa dot com started to be a thing he started to wear on me again. His complaining has went from funny to just bitter. He also still maintains that aura of I'm a super rich dude out of touch with the real world and think I am the greatest thing ever. Hey check out the museum I built about myself for myself.
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May 29, 2018 01:31
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- Wirth1000
- May 12, 2010
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#essereFerrari
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To be fair, I would totally do the musuem thing too if I was as successful as him lol.
Also, holy poo poo:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4eAhik4EhSk
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May 29, 2018 01:45
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- DoctorGonzo
- Jul 25, 2016
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by Jeffrey of YOSPOS
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if the delorean was the first car why stroll traveled back in time to old monaco? that video doesnt making sense
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May 29, 2018 01:52
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- F1DriverQuidenBerg
- Jan 19, 2014
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One of the most overrated movies of all time.
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May 29, 2018 01:59
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- Wirth1000
- May 12, 2010
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#essereFerrari
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One of the most overrated movies of all time.
We're not talking about Death Wish.
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May 29, 2018 02:00
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- F1DriverQuidenBerg
- Jan 19, 2014
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We're not talking about Death Wish.
You mis-read that. I said overrated not underrated.
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May 29, 2018 02:02
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- DoctorGonzo
- Jul 25, 2016
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by Jeffrey of YOSPOS
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One of the most overrated movies of all time
for fucks sake, just gas this thread. we reached rock bottom
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May 29, 2018 02:03
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- Frond
- Mar 12, 2018
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BTF owns you morons. Jesus. This is why we need more graphs.
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May 29, 2018 02:05
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- F1DriverQuidenBerg
- Jan 19, 2014
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I don't even hate the film, its fine, it just doesn't deserve the stupid amount of praise it gets when its on the same level as Kindergarten Cop or Weekend at Bernie's.
Imagine an alternate reality where everyone loving talked about how good Kindergarten Cop was all the time. Everyone dressed up as John Kimball and owned a ferret. Do you not see how absurd this is?
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May 29, 2018 02:10
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- F1DriverQuidenBerg
- Jan 19, 2014
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Back to the Future is one of those very decent films that you watch once and think “pretty good” and then never watch again, because why would you?
Exactly. That is exactly my point. Why the gently caress is it held up as this cultural institution for no loving reason?
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May 29, 2018 02:12
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- Adbot
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ADBOT LOVES YOU
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Jun 3, 2024 14:23
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- DoctorGonzo
- Jul 25, 2016
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by Jeffrey of YOSPOS
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incest
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May 29, 2018 02:13
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May 28, 2018 21:06
