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TraderStav posted:So maybe a dumb question that my neighbor asked when I (kind of smugly) mentioned that I am at 3,500 miles on my Volt with only using 2 gallons of gas. Is there any treatment or stabilizer I need to do to keep the gas good in there? At what point should I do something? I can easily see going several more months until I use this tank up (using none in the summer months) and don't want to do any damage or muck anything up. I don't have an EV or PHEV but I'm pretty sure the Volt will go into an engine maintenance of sorts if it detects your gas is too old and will burn gas even if you have a charge. You should be good. Nothing you need to know as far as I remember reading in this thread.
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May 30, 2018 03:54
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TraderStav posted:So maybe a dumb question that my neighbor asked when I (kind of smugly) mentioned that I am at 3,500 miles on my Volt with only using 2 gallons of gas. Is there any treatment or stabilizer I need to do to keep the gas good in there? At what point should I do something? I can easily see going several more months until I use this tank up (using none in the summer months) and don't want to do any damage or muck anything up. It is nothing you need to worry about... If the engine hasn't run for around ~6 weeks, the car will start it and idle for 10 minutes. (this is called Engine Maintenance Mode). The car also keeps track of the average age of the fuel in the tank. Once it approaches 12 months, the car will force a fuel burn until it is mostly gone, OR until you add some to it (thus bringing down the average age). It is not necessary or recommended to use any kind of stabilizer. In contrast to normal cars, the fuel tank is kept completely sealed and pressurized at ALL times which slows fuel degradation. Which is also why you have to press the fuel door button and wait for a bit before you can open the fuel cap. It has to de-pressurize the system and capture any vapors.. You can read a bit about that system here: https://www.autoblog.com/2011/03/18/chevy-volts-sealed-gas-tank-brought-automakers-carb-together/ . and also here: http://www.plugincars.com/putting-thought-putting-gas-chevy-volt-69473.html
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May 30, 2018 04:43
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Wow, that's really neat. Unrelated, I've noticed that my Volt will spin the fan up while charging, and I do not believe that it's the ICE. Is that just to keep it cool while charging in higher temps?
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May 30, 2018 14:06
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TraderStav posted:Wow, that's really neat. That's the battery coolant loop, A/C compressor (which cools the battery through a heat exchanger,) and the radiator fan which also cools the A/C condenser. This is also why sometimes you'll be driving along with the A/C off, and it'll turn on anyway; It's cooling the traction battery. Fun fact: The GenI Voltec battery coolant loop coolant pump got taken out of the parts bin and repurposed as the intercooler loop pump for the LSA/LS9 supercharged V8s in ZL1/ZR1 Camaros and Corvettes. (Different part numbers because the clocking of the pump housing and mounting arrangements are different, but its the same pump.)
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May 30, 2018 14:31
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TraderStav posted:Wow, that's really neat. The Volt has a heat exchanger on the battery/charger coolant loop that can exchange heat with the air conditioning system. What you are hearing is the fan and/or A/C compressor running to chill the battery coolant. It will usually do this if the battery is warm and the outside temperature is high. It will also vary the speed of the fan and A/C compressor depending on cooling needs. So if its really hot outside it will spin up much faster and louder. I charge in a hot, unfinished garage, so mine usually comes on for at least 30 minutes when I first start a charge. Interestingly, the car has 3 independent cooling systems. If you open the hood you'll notice 3 separate coolant reservoir tanks! One for the ICE engine, one for the battery/charger, and another for the drive motors/drive electronics/"transmission". Only the battery loop can be chilled by the A/C. The others are air cooled only. There is a lot of stuff packed into the Volt.
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May 30, 2018 14:52
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https://twitter.com/gigantickludge/status/997376558204518400 
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May 30, 2018 15:12
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Yeah there's a few Twitter threads that get very technical and people in the field of metallurgy are aghast. We'll have to wait and see what the part and human body failure rates look like if the Model 3 actually gets widespread release.
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May 30, 2018 15:15
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Yeah, wonder if they’ll recall. I might ask the service folks when I go in for tire swap and parking brake fix, just to get the obligatory non-answer.
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May 30, 2018 15:17
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How many hotel rooms did GM give you to make those posts?
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May 30, 2018 15:21
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 It's like what would happen if they asked a backyard-casting youtuber to make suspension links.
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May 30, 2018 15:22
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https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/741412152288808960
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May 30, 2018 15:27
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Subjunctive posted:Yeah, wonder if they’ll recall. I might ask the service folks when I go in for tire swap and parking brake fix, just to get the obligatory non-answer. I'm sure they won't know anything yet even if it is widespread. There is tons of evidence of bad QC for things we can see easily, like panel gaps and mismatched parts and obvious damage upon delivery. Tesla has never done the mass market, and they're trying to do it as cheap and fast as possible due to the spectre of insolvency. I bet there's more just under the surface. FistEnergy fucked around with this message at 15:40 on May 30, 2018 |
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May 30, 2018 15:37
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There's enough Teslas with enough miles that all the suspension links can't be completely cheese, but there's also a steady stream of weird alignment and tire wear issues.
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May 30, 2018 16:01
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Ola posted:There's enough Teslas with enough miles that all the suspension links can't be completely cheese, but there's also a steady stream of weird alignment and tire wear issues. Seems to be more an issue of quality control. Every process is going to produce a few blingers now and then, but you should have checks in place to catch them. There seem to be enough cars with enough serious issues that it seems endemic. Pushing to get cars out the door as fast as possible will do that.
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May 30, 2018 16:18
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Deteriorata posted:Seems to be more an issue of quality control. Every process is going to produce a few blingers now and then, but you should have checks in place to catch them. This looks like Model S/X bits though, which haven't been in any kind of real production crunch for quite a few years.
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May 30, 2018 16:47
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I went looking back to see what year it was. It's a 2013, so it could definitely have been crunch time on the Model S production line. However, the plot thickens a bit when posters highlight damage to the rim and tire, suggesting hard impact and also previous post history talking about working on a salvaged car with damage in that particular quarter: https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads/tesla-upper-control-arm-cracked.96329/page-9 Has a certain seafood bouquet IMHO.
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May 30, 2018 16:57
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There is one particular poster on TMC who famously sent a bunch of fraudulent reports of Tesla suspension problems. Using pictures pulled off salvage auction sites. Any picture they could find with a damaged wheel; purporting they where wrecked because the wheel had fallen off or the suspension had fallen apart, when it was quite obvious this wasn't the case. There where the very same reports Elon tweeted about. He also kept posting the same pictures in various TMC threads. And kept making new usernames and posting over and over again. He would make up a new username, make up some sob story about wrecking his Tesla because the suspension fell apart and then post pictures of these various salvaged/wrecked Tesla's as "proof". The twitter account linked shows those very same pictures.
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May 30, 2018 17:05
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stevewm posted:There is one particular poster on TMC who famously sent a bunch of fraudulent reports of Tesla suspension problems. Using pictures pulled off salvage auction sites. Any picture they could find with a damaged wheel; purporting they where wrecked because the wheel had fallen off or the suspension had fallen apart, when it was quite obvious this wasn't the case. There where the very same reports Elon tweeted about. Hahaha what? Why would someone do that?
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May 30, 2018 17:08
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That was Crazy Keef, an Aussie with an axe to grind. You may sometimes encounter his favorite phrase “Whompy Wheel” in Tesla forums. I think that Twitter poster (but not the TMC poster) is Crazy Keef.
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May 30, 2018 17:09
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RZA Encryption posted:Hahaha what? Why would someone do that? There's A LOT of people shorting TSLA and a lot more who would benefit from them failing.
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May 30, 2018 17:11
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Ola posted:I went looking back to see what year it was. It's a 2013, so it could definitely have been crunch time on the Model S production line. However, the plot thickens a bit when posters highlight damage to the rim and tire, suggesting hard impact and also previous post history talking about working on a salvaged car with damage in that particular quarter: Lol whoops I thought it was new content.
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May 30, 2018 17:13
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Crazy doesn’t really explain the bubbles in the link though, right?
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May 30, 2018 17:14
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MrYenko posted:Lol whoops  now I dunno, I assumed it was new because there's tons of QC problems with the Model 3 and I thought it was related
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May 30, 2018 17:16
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Subjunctive posted:Crazy doesn’t really explain the bubbles in the link though, right? It does not, no. But I really don’t know anything about metallurgy so can’t say anything useful there.
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May 30, 2018 17:20
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MrYenko posted:Lol whoops The OP in that thread is quite old, but that particular guy posted in that thread two weeks ago about a 2013 car. It seems fairly plausible that someone rebuilding a salvage would run into some issues on a car built by someone learning on the job.
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May 30, 2018 17:25
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A volt based crossover would sell really well in the US. It wouldn’t be an immediate threat to dealers and would be a convenience boom for daily commuters that don’t want to figure out the math behind their range anxiety. It would also give Chevy a perfect hedge around a faster EV transition by building a customer base that could transition to a bolt like crossover. I wonder what the hold up is.
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May 30, 2018 17:46
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Agronox posted:That was Crazy Keef, an Aussie with an axe to grind. You may sometimes encounter his favorite phrase “Whompy Wheel” in Tesla forums. Ah yes.. Keef was the name. I had forgotten it.
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May 30, 2018 17:49
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Ethereal posted:A volt based crossover would sell really well in the US. It wouldn’t be an immediate threat to dealers and would be a convenience boom for daily commuters that don’t want to figure out the math behind their range anxiety. The problem is, it wouldn't sell for the same margin that an "all gas" model would, so dealerships would likely actively push people away from it.
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May 30, 2018 17:54
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Ethereal posted:A volt based crossover would sell really well in the US. It wouldn’t be an immediate threat to dealers and would be a convenience boom for daily commuters that don’t want to figure out the math behind their range anxiety.
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May 30, 2018 17:57
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Ethereal posted:A volt based crossover would sell really well in the US. It wouldn’t be an immediate threat to dealers and would be a convenience boom for daily commuters that don’t want to figure out the math behind their range anxiety. It probably wouldn't have nearly the same battery only range as the Volt due to aero and adding AWD to that platform it would probably require more R&D money then would be worth the cannibalized sales of their current crossover lineup as well as cannibalizing Volt sales. The Niro is a PHEV compact crossover and let me tell you about all the people who immediately discount it when they find out it is FWD only. kill me now fucked around with this message at 18:04 on May 30, 2018 |
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May 30, 2018 18:02
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So, Tesla fixed the breaking issue and Consumer Reports now recommends the model 3. https://www.consumerreports.org/car-safety/tesla-model-3-gets-cr-recommendation-after-braking-update/ I know some people argue that it should have never been an issue in the first place, but this does not seem to me to be a good faith argument. All vehicle manufacures are going to encounter problems, OTA updates are a much better way to fix them IMO. Unless you are a service provider billing Tesla for the work of non-OTA updates.
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May 30, 2018 19:09
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Is "this shows a shortcoming in their testing methodology" a good faith argument?
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May 30, 2018 19:16
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spandexcajun posted:I know some people argue that it should have never been an issue in the first place, but this does not seem to me to be a good faith argument. All vehicle manufacures are going to encounter problems, OTA updates are a much better way to fix them IMO. Which other vehicle manufacturers have sold a four-door that degrades to shittier braking than an F-150 after you do a panic stop once? OTA updates are cool but using them to get away with shipping a vehicle with dangerous problems is really bad.
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May 30, 2018 19:17
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spandexcajun posted:So, Tesla fixed the breaking issue and Consumer Reports now recommends the model 3. Right after I bought my Volt, there where 4 "recalls" (GM calls them this internally, but they are not actual NHTSA recalls). And they where pretty big ones too. Every one could result in random loss of power. All where software updates to various modules. Had they been able to do OTAs to the extent Tesla can, I wouldn't have had to bring my car in. Hell, they could have potentially fixed it without me even knowing. And that brings me to another point.. I wonder how many problems Tesla has been able to fix they didn't tell anyone about? stevewm fucked around with this message at 19:48 on May 30, 2018 |
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May 30, 2018 19:46
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spandexcajun posted:So, Tesla fixed the breaking issue and Consumer Reports now recommends the model 3. My beef with OTA and in general the ability to cheaply push updates (see also video games post 6th generation consoles / PC games forever) is that it creates a conscious / unconscious psychological pressure on decision makers that allows QA/QC to be compressed too much. For videogames, no one (except maybe in China) died because they couldn't play a game on launch day / we as video game customers have proven that we'll spend $60 on a game that's unplayable at launch repeatedly. You have this escape rope dangling when your board is screaming at you to release the product and you have proven customer behavior that shows they'll happily bend over. For a several thousand pound machine piloted by a human that can kill its human / other humans because of mistakes, that's a different story. Yeah, mistakes / recalls do happen and unfortunately, the standard calculus is to only issue that once it becomes more expensive than human lives (and there is a number for that), but considering the sheer volume of cars produced, we seem to do OK. I think the percentage of "silent" updates is low (i.e., you go into a dealer and they reflash something without telling you) and OTA would save labor costs in the event of needing a flash, I give you that. Elon throwing around his rep / social media presence to be very laissez-faire and appear as a genius for being able to fix the problem remotely makes it even more hosed up. "Hey, we hosed up something that's safety-related but no probs dudes, we can just push an update to your car because we are the smartest!" Maybe it's the brushing under the rug attitude that's rubbing me the wrong way.
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May 30, 2018 20:56
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movax posted:My beef with OTA and in general the ability to cheaply push updates (see also video games post 6th generation consoles / PC games forever) is that it creates a conscious / unconscious psychological pressure on decision makers that allows QA/QC to be compressed too much. The thing is, more blatant poo poo goes down in the automotive industry every day. That's not saying this excuses instances like this, but let's not kid ourselves into thinking the establishment is doing much better. How many manufacturers have been caught up in emissions scandals? How long did GM use defective ignition cylinders? How many Takata airbags are yet to be replaced? Pick a decade and you can probably find at least two examples of willful disregard of safety by a subset of manufacturers going back to the inception of the car. So, this is a problem, but it's not a new problem. Let's not paint it as a startup culture issue because that diminishes the scope of the problem in the whole industry.
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May 30, 2018 21:20
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Cocoa Crispies posted:Which other vehicle manufacturers have sold a four-door that degrades to shittier braking than an F-150 after you do a panic stop once?
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May 30, 2018 21:32
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All software updates that are non-infotainment related should be regulated and certified by a independent third party lab (like UL, or a NHTSA lab maybe?), and prohibited from deployment/use until certified as safe.
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May 30, 2018 22:42
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blugu64 posted:All software updates that are non-infotainment related should be regulated and certified by a independent third party lab (like UL, or a NHTSA lab maybe?), and prohibited from deployment/use until certified as safe. Car computer systems all run on one bus and largely on the same processors. That includes the infotainment system. What this means, in non-geek terms, is that the infotainment system software is every bit as safety critical as the antilock-brake firmware. Changing the color of a menu button on the radio from green to pink absolutely has the potential to cause your car to randomly lose brakes and swerve into a dump truck if the bug is sufficiently bad. It doesn't have to be like this, but the standard techniques for truly safety critical software require spending more on each car for backup computers etc.
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May 31, 2018 00:59
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lmao
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May 31, 2018 01:16
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