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SciFiDownBeat posted:while I can't rule out the possibility that your reading is what Snyder intended, I think many people will agree with me when I say that it's a pretty thin possibility. Maybe he should have put in a flashing neon sign saying "Spartans Bad!" instead of the overly subtle foundation of children's skeletons.
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May 30, 2018 22:34
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Maybe he should have made good movies instead of being ironic.
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May 30, 2018 22:40
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 Creepy Crawlers is getting a movie. The toys, not any actual creepy crawlers. No details and the toys are just making bugs so this could be so open ended it could go in any direction, if it does anything. quote:Paramount Players has acquired the feature film rights to Creepy Crawlers, the famous toy brand owned by JAKKS Pacific, sources tell Variety. https://variety.com/2018/film/news/paramount-players-creepy-crawlers-1202824112/
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May 30, 2018 22:44
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You've heard of Big, but what if it was 100% reversed? Like the deleted scene at the end of Big? You get Little!quote:Regina Hall will join Issa Rae and Black-ish star Marsai Martin in the Universal comedy Little.
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May 30, 2018 22:46
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Schwarzwald posted:Maybe he should have put in a flashing neon sign saying "Spartans Bad!" instead of the overly subtle foundation of children's skeletons. The era of ancient civilizations was a universally brutal and primitive time made up of countless practices we could consider inhumane now. Modern chud culture fetishizes culling the weak and sees practices like the Spartans' as positive ideals. This ideal was never actually challenged, simply shown on screen. It's pretty funny that the entire defense of 300 as satirical seems to rely on this single shot that doesn't actually understand that satire is more than simply showing something bad, you have to deconstruct why it's bad. It's like that time Colbert did "ching-chong dong-ding" racism to try and satirize the Redskins debate - you're not actually doing satire by simply showing the thing you're lampooning. Also Snyder is a multi-millionaire white guy in Hollywood whose avatar on vero is a jingoistic bald eagle and American flag so lol the chances of Fountainhead being actually satirical are... less than great. Not that it's impossible, but Bay made a pretty brutal satire in Pain & Gain by bringing together a cast of downtrodden multiracial scrappy American men and used them to actually deconstruct the American meritocracy ethos that is the backbone of modern capitalism - and was still pretty comically misread by allegedly smarter people who should have known better.
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May 30, 2018 22:47
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Tars Tarkas posted:
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May 30, 2018 22:48
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Young Freud posted:Hey guys, don't take my head of because of this. Fun fact: the Landis accident on the Twilight Zone set is the reason why "helicopters" are referred to as "choppers".
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May 30, 2018 22:50
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Look, it’s not going to land every time.
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May 30, 2018 22:57
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Taintrunner posted:It's pretty funny that the entire defense of 300 as satirical seems to rely on this single shot that doesn't actually understand that satire is more than simply showing something bad, you have to deconstruct why it's bad Like for instance if you showed that they perceived their opponents as literal beastmen and they were offered a chance to live and conquer if only they *shared culture* and rejected it because they were racial purists and the last scene of the movie was the reveal of the fact that you've been listening to a fable spun by a propagandist of this horrific society and the final shot of the movie is that very same propagandist's screaming face twisted into bloodlust, and then a zoom out to show that he's infected all of Greece, as they charge at a faceless enemy. Of course this is "too subtle" and "badly executed" and "not ironic" or "ironic" or whatever, even though everything I just said is in the movie verbatim and right there to see.
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May 30, 2018 23:12
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SciFiDownBeat posted:But seriously, while I appreciate the effort you've put into proving your point, and while I can't rule out the possibility that your reading is what Snyder intended, I think many people will agree with me when I say that it's a pretty thin possibility. Do you think Starship Troopers is pro-fascism as well?
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May 30, 2018 23:19
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I never really considered that 300 might be satirical, though I only saw it once shortly after it came out. I think it's because it isn't at any point presented as tongue-in-cheek. Like, Starship Troopers has WWII style propaganda videos of kids stomping on cockroaches. There isn't anything like that in 300. Maybe I'm just a dumbo and I needed someone to wink at the camera but presenting the Spartans as perfect bronze warriors and the Persians as twisted decadent monsters seemed pretty straightforward to me.
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May 30, 2018 23:48
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Enola Gay-For-Pay posted:Like, Starship Troopers has WWII style propaganda videos of kids stomping on cockroaches. 300 has perfect bronze warriors stomping on beastmen. It also has that ending reveal that the "propaganda videos" weren't cut into the movie - they were the movie. Edit: btw I just want to say that I understand people who thought it wasn't a parody - that's fine, it never has anyone "wink" at the camera, as you said - but to say it plays it completely straight, when Snyder goes out of his way to show Spartan society as horrible from the very opening scene, and add an extra layer of degeneracy to the Persians so that they are quite literally monsters - it just isn't accurate to the movie. It's meant to be Spartan propaganda, and it's so over the top that it becomes ludicrous. If someone tells you that it justifies war in the Middle East or whatever they've outed themselves. Megaman's Jockstrap fucked around with this message at 00:00 on May 31, 2018 |
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May 30, 2018 23:53
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Ridiculing fascism with over the top imagery is a bit like making fun of an airplane for having wings. That’s just how it works. They’d wave a flag with a mountain of dead babies on it and claim the babies deserved it if it got a rise out people.
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May 31, 2018 00:25
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300 only works as satire if you approach it with a preexisting anti-fascist mindset, which practically none of its fans did. The fact is that 300 resonates very strongly at an emotional level with jingoistic proto-fascists, and it being "over the top" or showing the Spartans doing bad things doesn't change that. Maybe they're just dumb and misreading Snyder's sublte satire, but that's what the overwhelming cultural perception of the movie was. Like are you really going to pretend that the vast majority of money made off the movie didn't come from people who took it at face value? Or that Snyder wasn't well aware of and accepting of that fact? Exaggeration is already a part of unironic fascist/racist propaganda. When someone draws a picture of a black person as an ape-like monstrosity, they are aware of the fact that black people don't actually look like that, and someone pointing that out isn't subversive. The only people who heard this supposed anti-fascist message are those who didn't need to hear it.
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May 31, 2018 01:10
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Zartosht posted:Maybe they're just dumb and misreading Snyder's sublte satire, but that's what the overwhelming cultural perception of the movie was. The truth is in the middle: they are dumb, because the satire wasn't subtle. Nobody is converting fascists to sanity with a movie and that's an absurd standard to set for it.
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May 31, 2018 01:13
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Sir Kodiak posted:The truth is in the middle: they are dumb, because the satire wasn't subtle. Nobody is converting fascists to sanity with a movie and that's an absurd standard to set for it. lol this is a colossal cop-out
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May 31, 2018 01:14
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The entire point of 300 hinges on it being a tale about Sparta, narrated by Spartans. It's naked gods fighting an army of demons because that's both how the narrator sells it and how his audience imagines it. I don't know if I would call it flat-out satire as much as an exploration of myth-making and militaristic/fascist mindsets. The film isn't subtle about this, at all. It spells out its whole deal within the first five minutes. You start out with someone raving about the glory of a pile of death babies. It doesn't have to be funny, but it should tell you everything about the narrator's mindset and the culture he comes from. The next big scene comes when young Leonidas faces the wolf and its some godawful CGI abomination. I can except that not every viewer knows how an ancient Persian looks, but we all know what wolves look like and it isn't this. Far before the Persians arrive, the film tells us that this is a narration in which the enemy will be translated into- and imagined as- literal monsters. It explicitly spells out each and every way in which the narration is taking us for a ride. Does every minute which follows these scenes promote fascism? Absolutely, but that's the entire point. The film is giving us a chance to move into that perspective and understand why its so appealing and satisfying. But it also denies us from taking it straight by explicitly setting itself up as the tale of a nutcase which has no basis in reality and is not to be trusted. Its a story told to motivate a group of young men who are about to fight a terrifying enemy who they don't know and don't understand, and it is their fear which elevates this nonsense into pure myth. Everything hinges on that narrator. It even explains Snyder's slowmo/fastmo fightscenes: they're a direct visual translation of how much attention a storyteller would give to actions in a battle. ,,He dashed forward, sword in hand, cutting up the foe wherever he came. (fastmotion). His blows were so mighty that he could stare his enemies in the eyes, raise his weapon and run them through without hesitation. (slowmotion)'' Without the narration, it just becomes an uncomfortable mess that hinges on comedy. Like 300: Rise of an Empire.
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May 31, 2018 01:18
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300: Rise of an Empire's closing credits song is a remix of Black Sabbath's "War Pigs."
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May 31, 2018 01:29
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https://twitter.com/Variety/status/1001964467524198400 the lead human character is reportedly a cop who teams up with Sonic so I guess this is both an unofficial Hop 2 and an unofficial remake of Theodore Rex
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May 31, 2018 01:35
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Bar Crow posted:Ridiculing fascism with over the top imagery is a bit like making fun of an airplane for having wings. That’s just how it works. They’d wave a flag with a mountain of dead babies on it and claim the babies deserved it if it got a rise out people. A lot of confusion here comes from this idea that satire is about just exaggerating death tolls or whatever. Oh they killed 20 billion people in the movie. That’s so immoral. Who gives a poo poo? The actual satirical point in Starship Troopers is that Rico is brainwashed into a relationship with Denise Richards, as as part of a successful ploy to make him easier to control. In the process, it’s necessary for Dizzy - who genuinely loved him - to die ugly. Like a bug. People tend to overlook that Starship Troopers is primarily a satire of teen drama. Moreover, Starship Troopers is a satire of liberalism. Not fascism, per se. The moral is that “war makes fascists of us all”, not that fascists are warlike - because duh, of course they are. Starship Troopers is not attacking a fascist Other. It is attacking YOU.
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May 31, 2018 01:35
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Barry Convex posted:https://twitter.com/Variety/status/1001964467524198400 This forum promised me Paul Rudd!
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May 31, 2018 01:36
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Davros1 posted:This forum promised me Paul Rudd! I know, honey, but we simply can't afford Paul Rudd this year. I know James Marsden isn't a brand name Male Actor Who Is Older Than He Looks, but he's just as good - look, he's on Westworld!
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May 31, 2018 01:39
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It is also funny that people watch a movie about a massive world-spanning empire attacking independent city-states to satisfy their ruler's lust for conquest, and then get baffled that the movie doesn't portray the empire sympathetically.
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May 31, 2018 01:41
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K. Waste posted:300: Rise of an Empire's closing credits song is a remix of Black Sabbath's "War Pigs." And it shows how Eva Green is evil because after our hero forces her to surrender, she would still rather go out on here own terms by feigning submission and then jumping him. An evil, cowardly act that we have seen nowhere before in this franchise. Okay, I may have been to harsh about Rise of an Empire.
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May 31, 2018 01:45
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Byzantine posted:It is also funny that people watch a movie about a massive world-spanning empire attacking independent city-states to satisfy their ruler's lust for conquest, and then get baffled that the movie doesn't portray the empire sympathetically. Yeah it’s almost as if some major event happened in the past few years that affected Americans’ views of people from that region of the world in which maybe it wasn’t a great idea to portray them as bloodthirsty other that must be destroyed at all costs
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May 31, 2018 01:45
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Barry Convex posted:https://twitter.com/Variety/status/1001964467524198400 why the hell did it take me six years to realize liz lemon's husband was cyclops
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May 31, 2018 01:46
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Brother Entropy posted:why the hell did it take me six years to realize liz lemon's husband was cyclops Hey don't worry, you're way ahead of everyone in Metropolis. Including Richard White!
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May 31, 2018 01:54
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Megaman's Jockstrap posted:300 has perfect bronze warriors stomping on beastmen. It also has that ending reveal that the "propaganda videos" weren't cut into the movie - they were the movie. There are alot of things Verhoeven does in Starship Troopers to heighten its satirical quotient: its laugh out moments (like when the trainee gets his head blown off completely ridiculously), constantly undermining the valor of its wooping heroes by gruesome insect annihilation, lacing the horrors of war with entertainment masked as galactic CNN inserts, having one of its characters dress up as a goddamn bonafide Nazi. And most of all, making his characters inept. From the bad performances, to the blank like characterization, its immature melodrama. Without taking in the actual creators behind the films (Verhoeven a constantly thinking filmkaker who cannot stop talking about he hates everything militaristic and imperialist, Snyder.....uh......much less so) it's a satire because it has the courage to deflate itself. 300 never does. Or really evince anything satirical that doesn't need alot of outside analysis and writing to bring out. e: gently caress i've gotta see starship troopers again.
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May 31, 2018 01:54
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Shag looks like you are searching desperately for winks that tell you everything is ok, and without the winks you conclude that the director ‘isn’t thinking’. Like constant reassurance that the director is a good guy and on your side, making the film itself largely irrelevant.
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May 31, 2018 02:29
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Taintrunner posted:Yeah it’s almost as if some major event happened in the past few years that affected Americans’ views of people from that region of the world in which maybe it wasn’t a great idea to portray them as bloodthirsty other that must be destroyed at all costs Right, they should've been portrayed with Persia's historical and much more sympathetic reason for invading Greece, that the free city-states were supporting the conquered Greeks in Asia Minor in their bids for independence
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May 31, 2018 02:36
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Shageletic posted:Got any examples? On Sunday I was in Hollywood and these 2 fast 3 furious bros shut down an intersection so they could do a donut sideshow. Cops couldn't get to them since traffic was jammed but to cap off their getaway they tossed a firework causing a guy to go into seizure on the boulevard. Cops locked it down and ambulance took him away. Since the show was over I went back to drinking at the Star Wars cantina themed bar where we lamented the poor box office showing of Solo even if we understood the causes thereof but it's cool because we got to hang out with ray park a few days prior
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May 31, 2018 04:44
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Davros1 posted:This forum promised me Paul Rudd! You promised me dog or better.
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May 31, 2018 05:03
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Question is will sonic have a human girlfriend
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May 31, 2018 05:54
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Taintrunner posted:lol this is a colossal cop-out What is the satire that breaks through to the audience that really needs to hear it? Starship Troopers is very entertaining, but it's not making anyone anti-war who isn't already.
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May 31, 2018 06:00
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Sir Kodiak posted:What is the satire that breaks through to the audience that really needs to hear it? Starship Troopers is very entertaining, but it's not making anyone anti-war who isn't already. Stop being a coward. Art is a fundamental form of communication and Starship Troopers has done far more to convince people the foils of militaristic fascism than 300 has ever done, which has actually in reverse, become an aesthetic sticking point for chuddite culture and led to an infinite escalator of "MOLON LABE" labels, tattoos, gun etching, and other embarrassing bullshit you can find nigh infinite examples of on the world wide web. If your satire ends with people embracing the very loving thing you think you're satirizing, guess what buddy, it's a really lovely fuckin' satire! Maybe you're just a really fuckin' poor communicator!
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May 31, 2018 06:33
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Taintrunner posted:Starship Troopers has done far more to convince people the foils of militaristic fascism than 300 has ever done How do you know that Starship Troopers has convinced people of this?
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May 31, 2018 06:36
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Alan Smithee posted:Question is will sonic have a human girlfriend Yes. Me.
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May 31, 2018 06:38
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Alan Smithee posted:Question is will sonic have a human girlfriend Let's cut to the chase: Does Sonic gently caress
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May 31, 2018 06:42
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i just want to say...i disagree about the guys head blowing up in Starship Troopers being primarily a laugh moment
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May 31, 2018 07:13
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Hat Thoughts posted:i just want to say...i disagree about the guys head blowing up in Starship Troopers being primarily a laugh moment He was watering the tree of liberty
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May 31, 2018 07:17
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