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KozmoNaut posted:I fully support this. Bringing an already qualified (and probably relatively experienced) engineer up to speed must be so much faster and less expensive than fully training a complete greenhorn. Plus you get the benefit of field experience, sometimes under adverse conditions, which is extremely valuable. This is not necessarily true when you go up above the individual level though. This is because one would need to have a custom study plan for each student that accounts for: 1. Knowledge gaps, these would first need to be mapped out by study guides on an individual level. For example, a student lacking knowledge of certain high school arithmetics required for a catch up course in chemical engineering would need to complement his education with an appropriate high school course first. Preparatory courses might also not synch very well with the dates of your next course, having the prerequisite course in January and the followup course in September sucks. 2. Language barriers, few likely know English or Swedish to a sufficient degree to be put into existing courses/programs and would likely need comprehensive preparatory courses in Swedish and/or English (for example SFI courses up to level D) to fit into the existing educational programs. And depending on the different needs available it can definitely end up being more expensive in the short to mid term (for the state and the individual) than a full reschooling or acceptance of the status quo, long term outcomes will naturally vary depending on type of education etc. This obviously also disregards any problems related to the difficulty of going to back to school, such as not getting a livable salary for your family.
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May 31, 2018 13:43
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yeah which is why some form of work placement subsidy is useful in the beginning one wants to get everyone out of their homes and into some form of activity, though, not just the engineers obviously, though, we'd want to make it actually legal for people to make their own money as soon as possible first, which is a really perverse piece of legislation
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May 31, 2018 13:53
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Cardiac posted:Finally, 8 years to find any form of employment is kinda bad. In that time you can basically do an entire bachelor-master-PhD. What kind of garbage Ph.D can you get in 2-3 years in the hard sciences in Sweden? A B.Sc. is 4 years, the M.Sc. is at least 1 year, etc. You won't have finished a serious research program in that time. Do they just toss you out with partial results and a diploma?
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May 31, 2018 14:22
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Zudgemud posted:An engineer with a 2 year education that focused solely on the maintenance of old soviet oil Derricks will not necessarily have a comparable degree to a modern 3 year bachelor in mechanical engineering, despite it saying so with a direct translation of their degree title. You only do 3 year Engineering degrees?
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May 31, 2018 14:25
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Rust Martialis posted:You only do 3 year Engineering degrees? Civil engineers do 5 years iirc. Bachelor-masters-PhD can theoretically be done in 9 years, 3+2+4. edit: a bachelors is 3 years or 180 points (30/semester), masters 120 points, civil engineer 300 points. You could get a bachelors in engineering in three years I guess. Fox Cunning fucked around with this message at 15:06 on May 31, 2018 |
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May 31, 2018 15:03
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Fox Cunning posted:Civil engineers do 5 years iirc. am technically civil engineer, can confirm 5 years
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May 31, 2018 15:04
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V. Illych L. posted:am technically civil engineer, can confirm 5 years Trying to visualize how useless a Civ with three years would be at a company
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May 31, 2018 15:14
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Yeah it hurts that the scary bigot has spent far more hours with immigrants than you, has employed them, has arranged visas at the foreign office for many, helped with schooling, etc, etc  Anyhow, EU parliament votes DK and SWE's respective border controls illegal: https://www.dr.dk/nyheder/udland/eu-parlamentet-danmark-skal-droppe-graensekontrollen The EU parliament, while being the more democratic house of the two, is essentially powerless, so it is just finger wagging so far. And Trump has introduced a tax on exports of steel and aluminium from the EU (among others). I don't really know if any scandi countries have remnants of those industries though? Educate me.
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May 31, 2018 17:06
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Rnr posted:Yeah it hurts that the scary bigot has spent far more hours with immigrants than you, has employed them, has arranged visas at the foreign office for many, helped with schooling, etc, etc Sweden has quite a good amount of companies producing/exporting specialized steel products, I have no idea how exposed they are to the US market.
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May 31, 2018 17:20
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Fox Cunning posted:Civil engineers do 5 years iirc. Bachelor is 90pts in Sweden, Master 120 and PHD studies are paid research/teaching positions where the time spent to get one can vary. To qualify for a PHD position you need 240 points, 4 years, whereas 60 of those have to be at a master level. Most programs that include a bachelor degree are 180pts, but half of those are typically professional skills or so that are outside the degree. Postorder Trollet89 fucked around with this message at 17:41 on May 31, 2018 |
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May 31, 2018 17:37
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Rust Martialis posted:Trying to visualize how useless a Civ with three years would be at a company Looks at sister-in-law with a bachelor degree and working as line manager at Volvo. Eh, not at all. There is a mistaken belief in Sweden that education is everything, when work experience easily trumphs that. I should also add that my 8 years example is for the Bologna system and not the Swedish PhD system. As for the cost of immigration, say hello to the ESO report published today by Joakim Ruist, someone with an actual PhD in this. Summary: https://eso.expertgrupp.se/wp-content/uploads/2016/11/Sammanfattning.pdf Link: https://eso.expertgrupp.se/rapporter/tid-for-integration/ Fun part: The average refugee costs the Swedish government an average of 74k SEK per year. Immigration from refugees are a cost both in the short term and long term. But this debate is old and nothing new is going to come out of, especially since the left wants to blame everything on class and rascism and can keep swinging at those windmills. The real bombshell for today comes from politism. http://www.politism.se/story/socialdemokraterna-stoppar-medlemmarna-fran-inflytande-pa-nasta-kongress/#post-59352 S wants to stop party members from having non-approved motions to next years congress, in all likelihood to stop any objections to the sharpened immigration politics.
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May 31, 2018 17:38
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Rust Martialis posted:Trying to visualize how useless a Civ with three years would be at a company The highest paid person from my high-school class was offered a 2000€ raise with staggered 500€ raises for two years by his employer for cutting his degree off at three years instead of five. Cardiac posted:The real bombshell for today comes from politism. This has to be an unfounded rumor because the alternative is too stupid. Cardiac posted:As for the cost of immigration, say hello to the ESO report published today by Joakim Ruist, someone with an actual PhD in this. Already been critiqued by other economists for being a complete joke and featuring reasoning that borders on nonsensical. MiddleOne fucked around with this message at 17:59 on May 31, 2018 |
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May 31, 2018 17:53
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Postorder Trollet89 posted:Bachelor is 90pts in Sweden, Master 120 and PHD studies are paid research/teaching positions where the time spent to get one can vary. To qualify for a PHD position you need 240 points, 4 years, whereas 60 of those have to be at a master level. I've never heard of a 90 point bachelors, and I technically have three. I guess they might exist, though they shouldn't.
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May 31, 2018 18:11
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Fox Cunning posted:I've never heard of a 90 point bachelors, and I technically have three. I guess they might exist, though they shouldn't. He's counting the other 90 points as non-bachelor even though they're part of the bachelor degree.
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May 31, 2018 18:25
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MiddleOne posted:The highest paid person from my high-school class was offered a 2000€ raise with staggered 500€ raises for two years by his employer for cutting his degree off at three years instead of five.
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May 31, 2018 18:40
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Postorder Trollet89 posted:Bachelor is 90pts in Sweden, Master 120 and PHD studies are paid research/teaching positions where the time spent to get one can vary. To qualify for a PHD position you need 240 points, 4 years, whereas 60 of those have to be at a master level. never ever ever say "points"
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May 31, 2018 18:46
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Fox Cunning posted:Civil engineers do 5 years iirc. Aside from civil engineers we also have bachelor level engineers called högskoleingenjör which is most often a 3 year education. This is basically the same as a technical bachelor's degree, with the main difference being that a högskoleingenjör is a form of vocational training that thus need to include some specific non technical courses.
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May 31, 2018 19:32
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https://www.dr.dk/nyheder/indland/faktatjek-er-fastende-muslimer-farlige-i-trafikken Lol, the hand wringing. Turns out, when the DK nationalised fact checking TV show checked the actual statistical data, performed largely by fundamentalist muslim countries such as UAE, Pakistan, etc, but also in the UK (insert joke here), it turns out Støjberg was actually justified in the aforementioned Ramadan criticism wrt operating dangerous machinery, at the very least.
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Jun 1, 2018 00:30
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MiddleOne posted:Already been critiqued by other economists for being a complete joke and featuring reasoning that borders on nonsensical. Scocco doesnt count. Links to other economists please.
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Jun 1, 2018 06:35
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Rnr posted:https://www.dr.dk/nyheder/indland/faktatjek-er-fastende-muslimer-farlige-i-trafikken That's not actually what it says. Try reading it again.
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Jun 1, 2018 09:31
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MiddleOne posted:He's counting the other 90 points as non-bachelor even though they're part of the bachelor degree. The other 90 points does not have to be directly related to the subjectmatter of your degree, depending on the college ofcourse. That said you are right in that it requires 180points total before you can apply for the degree.
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Jun 1, 2018 12:48
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In other news a public petition for making it illegal to circumcise a child (under 18) got 50000 verified signatures today. I'm not sure if the other nordics have the same system, but basically in DK anyone can register a political suggestion and citizens can sign it and if it reaches 50k signatures, the folketing is obliged to raise the issue during session and hold a vote on it. It is predicted that the suggestion will not make it into law, because of "fears of foreign reaction, loss of allies" by the politicians. A cowardly bunch. "Oh no, what will X (Israel, UAE, US, etc) think of us?!" https://www.dr.dk/ligetil/folketinget-skal-stemme-om-forbud-mod-omskaering
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Jun 1, 2018 14:29
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It's good that somebody is raising relevant issues about the scary Musselman tradition instead of like, I dunno, how mass surveillance equipment sold from Denmark to the worst Wahhabi state on the planet was used to track, imprison and torture women's rights activists exactly as anyone with a working brain had predicted when the problem was raised last year. That would be terrible. Let's focus on the real issues here. There are tens of people wearing niqabs, for example.
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Jun 1, 2018 15:30
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SplitSoul posted:It's good that somebody is raising relevant issues about the scary Musselman tradition instead of like, I dunno, how mass surveillance equipment sold from Denmark to the worst Wahhabi state on the planet was used to track, imprison and torture women's rights activists exactly as anyone with a working brain had predicted when the problem was raised last year. That would be terrible. Let's focus on the real issues here. There are tens of people wearing niqabs, for example. The circumcision thing is just sad. Stop cutting up people who can’t consent, TYVM
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Jun 1, 2018 17:44
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just lol if u dont agree with a genital mutilation ban
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Jun 1, 2018 20:00
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so that means I can be a cheapskate and post about posting instead of having some wit or spending any more on comedy avs for people. Which I'm also incapable of. Comedy.
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Retarded Goatee posted:just lol if u dont agree with a genital mutilation ban Being a leftie is complicated these days I'll have you know... Must defend oppressed musselman, so genital cutting good. However, jews also cut genitals all the time. Jew is a bad identity, thus genital cutting bad. I dunno man, it's a wash, let's talk about some horrible wiretapping poo poo instead (its capitalism, you see, evil), gently caress you kids. e: to be fair, I would venture many, if not most, of the politicians voting against the ban are right wing, afraid the US will take its dick out of their throat. Takes all kinds I guess. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Jun 1, 2018 21:27
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what the devil are you on about
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Jun 1, 2018 22:34
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Rnr posted:Being a leftie is complicated these days I'll have you know... Must defend oppressed musselman, so genital cutting good. However, jews also cut genitals all the time. Jew is a bad identity, thus genital cutting bad. I dunno man, it's a wash, let's talk about some horrible wiretapping poo poo instead (its capitalism, you see, evil), gently caress you kids.
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Jun 1, 2018 23:12
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Im a criminal now. BBQ is illegal !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Found out too late to abort hot action The sirloin was delicious
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Jun 2, 2018 00:17
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sofokles posted:Im a criminal now.
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Jun 2, 2018 05:29
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sofokles posted:Im a criminal now. So instead of being a normal person and using a grill, your made a bonfire for the BBQ? Ambitious.
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Jun 2, 2018 05:45
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Ah you didn't quite catch it? Gist is: lefties fail to defend children, because they're scared someone will label them racist. The right fail to defend children because they fear sanctions from the US and Israel. Better?
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Jun 2, 2018 07:56
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Rnr fails to make sense, because he's a dreadful human being.
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Jun 2, 2018 08:38
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Kozmonaut does ad hominems, in lieu of arguments, all the time because his ideology is immoral, anti-human and corrupt? I mean it would be great to actually talk about issues, but yeah...
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Jun 2, 2018 09:36
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Rnr posted:I mean it would be great to actually talk about issues, but yeah... I definitely agree that you should talk about your issues.
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Jun 2, 2018 09:40
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Rnr posted:Kozmonaut does ad hominems, in lieu of arguments, all the time because his ideology is immoral, anti-human and corrupt? Just  if you honestly believe that.Do you even know what my ideology is? Other than "leftist therefore BAD!"? I'm not exactly a Stalinist USSR fanboy tankie, you know. Calling left wing views "immoral, anti-human and corrupt" is like a direct quote from Alex Jones or Breitbart. KozmoNaut fucked around with this message at 10:14 on Jun 2, 2018 |
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Jun 2, 2018 09:59
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Rnr posted:Kozmonaut does ad hominems, in lieu of arguments, all the time because his ideology is immoral, anti-human and corrupt? You're an actual moron. It's literally impossible to talk about issues with you, because you're too stupid. It's very tragic really, from the outside, because you obviously don't realize this yourself and since you're incapable of communicating above the equivalent of grunts and guttural roars, the rest of us can't really help you. We just have to watch as you're rolling in the mud fighting imaginary enemies and screaming at the top of your lungs about 'leftists, leftists! LEFTISTS'.
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Jun 2, 2018 10:08
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Hey check this out: Rnr had made some bad posts but he's not some sort of irredeemable trash person based on those posts, and people tripping over themselves to win the hyperbole dunk-race are actively making the thread a worse place.
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Jun 2, 2018 10:18
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I don't think that is either correct or fair. The adhominems start from your side, if you could pause the raging for two seconds and have a look. If we could get past the name calling and knee jerk reactions I'd be grateful, I'm certainly willing to do my part. I'd honestly prefer if people from both sides of the political spectrum could talk about current political affairs, with liberal use of banter and mockery, but with a lot less demonization and misrepresentation (again I'm not innocent, but I honestly feel compelled to self defense). Peace?
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Jun 2, 2018 10:19
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the post i quoted is at best disingenuous and at worst incoherent, claiming that any position on the circumcision ban arises from whether one hates jews more than one loves muslims which is a really strange thing to say, out of the blue like that
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Jun 2, 2018 10:24
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