|
Merauder posted:And this is somehow, like, a point of pride or something? I definitely appreciate communities that have a high standard for their respective hobby. The snark and snobbery is what makes this thread great.
|
#
?
May 31, 2018 17:15
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 14, 2024 03:30 |
|
|
I'm trying to think of a hobby where that wouldn't be a thing to strive for. Hobbies are all about companies trying to sell you new stuff vs you trying to only get new stuff that will actually keep your attention, interest, and be worth the time and money.
|
|
#
?
May 31, 2018 17:16
|
|
|
I also disagree with BL here. Having taste isn’t snark nor snobbery. There isn’t gatekeeping here that I’ve ever observed. Plenty of gateway games are talked about, but some are much better than others. It was either here or on discord but the oink games (deep sea adventure, startups) get talked about a lot. If by snark you mean against the rising sun CMON types, then yeah I’m self deprecating about that too. I bought it for the minis. Still, v lol at an auction game that costs a ton but is badly balanced and loses to el Grande, a 20yo game (the bidding for combat is equivalent to the Castillo placement reveal, imo). Chill la Chill fucked around with this message at 17:19 on May 31, 2018 |
|
#
?
May 31, 2018 17:17
|
|
|
Merauder posted:And this is somehow, like, a point of pride or something? Pierzak fucked around with this message at 17:21 on May 31, 2018 |
|
#
?
May 31, 2018 17:17
|
|
|
There's also a more pervasive issue arising from the new-n-shiny buying trend that big game publishers are increasingly looking at some of the wildly popular KS success stories like Kingdom Death and are asking themselves if this is where their publishing model should go. I'm not saying that's inherently bad or that there's anything wrong with the game, but my friends that work for the local major studios are already feeling (more) pressure to make "Kickstarter bait" games, even if they're never actually going to end up on KS-- games that are much more style over substance, packed to the gills with minis and tokens, and so strangely grimdark that even a diehard GW fan would raise an eyebrow. Every company is going to chase popular trends, it's just unfortunate that the current new and shiny trend tends to be big flashy Kickstarter successes that aren't often that great of a game. I don't think there's really any reason to hate a new game just because it's new, though, that would be a weird perspective to have. At least a solid handful of my favorite games are from the last five years. The other side of the coin is that a lot of people who have been involved in the hobby for a long time tend to over-romanticize classic board games that were good when they were released but feel like absolute dinosaurs when compared with more modern designs.
|
|
#
?
May 31, 2018 17:20
|
|
|
What’s a Colonial Twilight? I’ve never seen it mentioned.
|
|
#
?
May 31, 2018 17:22
|
|
|
MockingQuantum posted:The other side of the coin is that a lot of people who have been involved in the hobby for a long time tend to over-romanticize classic board games that were good when they were released but feel like absolute dinosaurs when compared with more modern designs.
|
|
#
?
May 31, 2018 17:23
|
|
|
Bum the Sad posted:What’s a Colonial Twilight? I’ve never seen it mentioned. two-player wargame about the algerian war of independence based on a long-running system for simulating insurgencies
|
|
#
?
May 31, 2018 17:25
|
|
|
Puerto Rico 
|
|
#
?
May 31, 2018 17:25
|
|
|
Pierzak posted:Got specific examples on hand? I'd love to hear about titles that raised the bar compared to classics, but somehow slipped under my radar. Cosmic encounter
|
|
#
?
May 31, 2018 17:33
|
|
|
Pierzak posted:Got specific examples on hand? I'd love to hear about titles that raised the bar compared to classics, but somehow slipped under my radar. I mean it's probably because I live in a town that's pretty ruled by FFG but a lot of their older catalog is still held up as some sort of standard for board gaming, things like Arkham Horror, BSG, etc. And I love BSG, but having put it in front of avid gamers who are only really familiar with recent titles they tend to look at it and go "wtf is this mess?" Also I know a few people who still think Axis and Allies is a game that should be recommended early and often, which baffles me. I personally think stuff like Agricola, Twilight Struggle, Carcassonne, Diplomacy, and Catan tend to feel either clunky based on more recent games, pretty dated, or wildly overhyped by long-time fans. Having come to all of them after they were initially popular it was hard to understand the mass appeal. I wouldn't call any of them bad games, though (well I hate Catan and genuinely think it's a dumb game but that's just me). Edit: I absolutely agree that Puerto Rico and Cosmic Encounter feel that way to me too. I even really enjoy Cosmic Encounter, but it's clunky as hell and I doubt I'll ever manage to convince any of my friends to play it again. Oh yeah and neither Race nor Roll for the Galaxy made any kind of splash with my gaming group. They were both games that we played and thought "yeah I can see why people really like these" but the response was universally lukewarm. MockingQuantum fucked around with this message at 17:37 on May 31, 2018 |
|
#
?
May 31, 2018 17:33
|
|
|
I feel like if el Grande were to be released to today’s crowd, it would have giant Cthulhu Grande minis and various cultists and lesser ones as caballeros. Not that I’d mind since it would still have solid game theory foundations, but it would take longer to separate from the chaff because of the hundred minis and giant rear end Castillo bowl. Pierzak posted:Got specific examples on hand? I'd love to hear about titles that raised the bar compared to classics, but somehow slipped under my radar. I like to think import export over RFTG/glory to Rome but the shininess, plastic boats, auctions, and economy might just hit all the right notes for my group. Also sidereal Confluence straight up beats Chinatown. I like having both because Chinatown is much simpler but you can make wild futures trading in SC that you couldn’t do in Chinatown. Tek will agree with me on this but Wir sind Das Volk is superior to twilight struggle.
|
|
#
?
May 31, 2018 17:35
|
|
|
Chill la Chill posted:I also disagree with BL here. Having taste isn’t snark nor snobbery. There isn’t gatekeeping here that I’ve ever observed. Plenty of gateway games are talked about, but some are much better than others. It was either here or on discord but the oink games (deep sea adventure, startups) get talked about a lot. I totally meant snark and snobbery in the humorous way, not that anyone here came off as actual snobs (maaaybe those 18XX people)
|
|
#
?
May 31, 2018 17:38
|
|
|
Bottom Liner posted:I totally meant snark and snobbery in the humorous way, not that anyone here came off as actual snobs (maaaybe those 18XX people) I've lurked the thread for a long time and no, I wouldn't say there are many posters that are genuinely snobby. Plus nobody tore me to pieces over my Agricola rant the other day, and I feel like I would have been turned into a pile of smoldering ashes on any other board game forum.
|
|
#
?
May 31, 2018 17:40
|
|
|
Bottom Liner posted:Since I know you guys’ taste more than the general rpg crowd: how are the newer RPG systems, specifically Starfinder and FFG’s Genesys? Those are the two that have caught my eye but I haven’t played since D&D 4th. Look up Red Markets, I was talking about that one at Gencon last year. Sort of crunchy, but it handles resource management well. There’s also a lot of economic themes in the game and you can play it pretty brutal if you want a poverty simulator. There is also a “bootstrapping possible” nice mode that makes the game not soul-crushing. The game is about zombies though if that theme doesn’t appeal. I think the designer does it really well and it’s definitely not a wish-fufilment murder simulator. All the PC’s have dependents in a safe zone they take care of to stay sane, and lone wolfing/being an rear end in a top hat causes sanity damage.
|
|
#
?
May 31, 2018 17:44
|
|
|
Chill la Chill posted:I feel like if el Grande were to be released to today’s crowd, it would have giant Cthulhu Grande minis and various cultists and lesser ones as caballeros. Not that I’d mind since it would still have solid game theory foundations, but it would take longer to separate from the chaff because of the hundred minis and giant rear end Castillo bowl. Nothing has yet to beat Caylus in terms of a WP game though.
|
|
#
?
May 31, 2018 17:46
|
|
|
Tigris and Euphrates is still boss.
|
|
#
?
May 31, 2018 17:48
|
|
|
MockingQuantum posted:I've lurked the thread for a long time and no, I wouldn't say there are many posters that are genuinely snobby. Plus nobody tore me to pieces over my Agricola rant the other day, and I feel like I would have been turned into a pile of smoldering ashes on any other board game forum. The post you were replying to was me saying I was joking about the snobs and snarks and that I didn’t think anyone was actually a snob. This thread is as nice as a community on Something Awful can be.
|
|
#
?
May 31, 2018 17:50
|
|
|
silvergoose posted:Tigris and Euphrates is still boss. Will agree. I took a long time to get it but we can’t stop jamming games now
|
|
#
?
May 31, 2018 17:52
|
|
|
MockingQuantum posted:I've lurked the thread for a long time and no, I wouldn't say there are many posters that are genuinely snobby. Plus nobody tore me to pieces over my Agricola rant the other day, and I feel like I would have been turned into a pile of smoldering ashes on any other board game forum. Yeah, but it was a well-worded rant. That goes far in this particular thread. So yeah, I'm doing nothing but agreeing with you. So... Remind me I need to go through my collection. I have a lot of games I need to revisit.
|
|
#
?
May 31, 2018 17:54
|
|
|
You guys have any recs for quick to teach games that play pretty fast? Like closer to 30 minutes but under an hour. I have most of the basic staples like Dominion and Carcassonne, along with some coops and thread favorites like Kemet and Space Alert. I'm thinking something about on the level of Tash Kalar in terms of complexity, but for more people. Basically good poo poo I can realistically get to the table and will leave people wanting more. I'm looking to stray off the beaten path a bit here. A nice theme or hook is a huge bonus too.
|
|
#
?
May 31, 2018 17:56
|
|
|
Fellis posted:Look up Red Markets, I was talking about that one at Gencon last year. Sort of crunchy, but it handles resource management well. There’s also a lot of economic themes in the game and you can play it pretty brutal if you want a poverty simulator. There is also a “bootstrapping possible” nice mode that makes the game not soul-crushing. I remember that, reminds me of This War of Mine. I think my friends would appreciate dumb goofy fun more than serious heavy stuff, I should have clarified that in the post. Something like this might be good for what I'm looking for, https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/jgilmour/kids-on-bikes-rpg-strange-adventures-in-small-town Stan Taylor posted:You guys have any recs for quick to teach games that play pretty fast? Like closer to 30 minutes but under an hour. I have most of the basic staples like Dominion and Carcassonne, along with some coops and thread favorites like Kemet and Space Alert. I'm thinking something about on the level of Tash Kalar in terms of complexity, but for more people. Do you mean more than 2 when talking about Tash? Queendomino is about on level with Dominion and Carc and has been a hit for us. Roll/Race for the Galaxy both play quick, but both have a heavy upfront learning hump. Azul is a newer abstract that is good at 2-4 with shiny tiles that are attractive to most anyone to pull people in. Mysterium is a great social interpretation game that's just at the 1 hour mark. Bottom Liner fucked around with this message at 18:08 on May 31, 2018 |
|
#
?
May 31, 2018 17:57
|
|
|
Stan Taylor posted:You guys have any recs for quick to teach games that play pretty fast? Like closer to 30 minutes but under an hour. I have most of the basic staples like Dominion and Carcassonne, along with some coops and thread favorites like Kemet and Space Alert. I'm thinking something about on the level of Tash Kalar in terms of complexity, but for more people. Libertalia is pretty good at this. But it may stall out if you have any AP players, and generally lacks any catch-up mechanisms.
|
|
#
?
May 31, 2018 18:09
|
|
|
I dunno, back in 1983 when I entered this hobby all there was mechanics wise was Diplomacy and Civilization. Keep in mind that all games were new at some point. Even Puerto Rico  . So if you want to criticize/slam 'cult of the new', just keep in mind its what's given you what you do enjoy.
|
|
#
?
May 31, 2018 18:10
|
|
|
Stan Taylor posted:You guys have any recs for quick to teach games that play pretty fast? Like closer to 30 minutes but under an hour. I have most of the basic staples like Dominion and Carcassonne, along with some coops and thread favorites like Kemet and Space Alert. I'm thinking something about on the level of Tash Kalar in terms of complexity, but for more people. Uptown is great but low on theme.
|
|
#
?
May 31, 2018 18:11
|
|
|
Lorini posted:I dunno, back in 1983 when I entered this hobby all there was mechanics wise was Diplomacy and Civilization. Keep in mind that all games were new at some point. Even Puerto Rico Yeah but Civ is still great, and Advanced Civ has a designer right here in this thread!  For me, it's not that cult of the new is inherently bad, but it *does* take up a lot of time and money, so if you have both of those, then get all the games and be on the cutting edge of figuring out which ones are great! I personally don't have the time, and my money is focused elsewhere, so I gotta be way more selective.
|
|
#
?
May 31, 2018 18:13
|
|
|
silvergoose posted:Yes? Shiny new stuff that isn't deep is something to be avoided since it is a money sink and a time sink as opposed to playing the games you already have more than ftfy
|
|
#
?
May 31, 2018 18:16
|
|
|
Wrong thread, you're thinking of the wargames thread. 
|
|
#
?
May 31, 2018 18:18
|
|
|
I'm not against new games either, I follow news and releases and keep an eye out for good stuff too, but a game has to be really good and fit my collection for me to consider buying it. For me, I got more burned out by my weekly group never wanting to play old games because they were all buying new stuff constantly sight unseen (I was guilty of this too at the time, playing at CSI game nights makes it entirely too easy to fall into that trap). I realized after a while I would rather play games I knew I liked rather than constantly learn new stuff that mostly turned out to be garbage. Now I am on the opposite end where I want to play everything in my collection until I'm sick of it or at least feel pretty competent with it. One of the guys from that group is close to 2000 games now, but I don't often game with them anymore.
|
|
#
?
May 31, 2018 18:22
|
|
|
silvergoose posted:Wrong thread, you're thinking of the wargames thread. You are telling me you have nothing still in shrink, or at least unpunched? If so you are a very rare breed of gamer. (But your point stands regardless)
|
|
#
?
May 31, 2018 18:29
|
|
|
Bottom Liner posted:I'm not against new games either, I follow news and releases and keep an eye out for good stuff too, but a game has to be really good and fit my collection for me to consider buying it. For me, I got more burned out by my weekly group never wanting to play old games because they were all buying new stuff constantly sight unseen (I was guilty of this too at the time, playing at CSI game nights makes it entirely too easy to fall into that trap). I realized after a while I would rather play games I knew I liked rather than constantly learn new stuff that mostly turned out to be garbage. Now I am on the opposite end where I want to play everything in my collection until I'm sick of it or at least feel pretty competent with it. One of the guys from that group is close to 2000 games now, but I don't often game with them anymore. You play with Jason from Dice Tower?
|
|
#
?
May 31, 2018 18:30
|
|
|
I mostly don't like the cult of the new tendency since I can never trust the recommendations of my friends that fall victim to it. Inevitably the games they recommend to me end up being at least pretty rough, usually quite bad, because they haven't played it more than once or twice and so never identify a game's shortcomings. It's not a big deal, because I get plenty of good recommendations from here and from other friends who care about games being good (or, god forbid, good AND new!) on multiple plays. It's just sad for me that I have some friends who won't want to play anything that's been around long enough to prove itself.
|
|
#
?
May 31, 2018 18:32
|
|
|
Indolent Bastard posted:You are telling me you have nothing still in shrink, or at least unpunched? If so you are a very rare breed of gamer. Nope, I was being snarky myself, I do have unplayed games, but holy poo poo wargamers buy so many games and never play them.
|
|
#
?
May 31, 2018 18:34
|
|
|
There are a lot of good older Euros that are worth playing if you're looking for something a bit quicker and with less rules complexity than your newer age Euro. Some are on our list but: Ra, Medici, Modern Art, Show Manager, Manhattan, Torres, Through the Desert, Taj Mahal, Saint Petersburg (2nd ed is better imo), Acquire, Bohnanza, The King is Dead, China, San Marco, Goa, Fresh Fish, Chicago Express, Puerto Rico, El Grande, Winner's Circle, Tigris & Euphrates. My favorite of that era is probably Santiago, which is a brilliantly cutthroat negotiation game. Hansa Teutonica is a somewhat newer game that feels like an old school Euro, and is also awesome.
|
|
#
?
May 31, 2018 18:42
|
|
|
Twilight Struggle is a good game, but I agree that it has some frustrating aspects- even Ananda's kinda gotten away from a lot of the randomness in his design for Imperial Struggle.
|
|
#
?
May 31, 2018 18:45
|
|
|
Does it count as still unplayed if you prefer to keep playing your friend’s copy until it’s worn out while yours stays minty fresh? My group seems to have the opposite problem of many of yours: we keep buying copies of games someone else bought and we know are good. I think this is in case we ever move away and something goes OOP, but it’s why we have 3-5 copies of several games.
|
|
#
?
May 31, 2018 18:45
|
|
|
Chill la Chill posted:Does it count as still unplayed if you prefer to keep playing your friend’s copy until it’s worn out while yours stays minty fresh? My group seems to have the opposite problem of many of yours: we keep buying copies of games someone else bought and we know are good. I think this is in case we ever move away and something goes OOP, but it’s why we have 3-5 copies of several games. I did this with the Dominant Species p500 last night. I was thinking that it would suck if I ever wanted to play it and didn't have access to my friend's copy, because between printings it has proven hard to get.
|
|
#
?
May 31, 2018 18:48
|
|
|
For the people asking about RPG systems with good combat, maybe check out Strike!. I'm on my phone so I can't link my thread, but it should be active in the last 3 pages or so. It's heavily inspired by 4e with some things streamlined (less dice rolling, primarily) and a cool class system. Full disclosure, I worked on the game but people in this thread have generally recommended it and it's been very successful with any board game people I've shown it to irl
|
|
#
?
May 31, 2018 18:49
|
|
|
CommonShore posted:I did this with the Dominant Species p500 last night. I was thinking that it would suck if I ever wanted to play it and didn't have access to my friend's copy, because between printings it has proven hard to get. Yeah DS will have 4 copies between us. container is currently just me but I’m sure they’ll get copies once it’s out and we’ve played it a few times. At which point I’ll hate them because they said they would’nt buy it and that we could’ve just split an extra copy for the 15 extra containers instead of me ponying it up as an add-on.
|
|
#
?
May 31, 2018 18:54
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 14, 2024 03:30 |
|
|
Bottom Liner posted:I'm not against new games either, I follow news and releases and keep an eye out for good stuff too, but a game has to be really good and fit my collection for me to consider buying it. For me, I got more burned out by my weekly group never wanting to play old games because they were all buying new stuff constantly sight unseen (I was guilty of this too at the time, playing at CSI game nights makes it entirely too easy to fall into that trap). I realized after a while I would rather play games I knew I liked rather than constantly learn new stuff that mostly turned out to be garbage. Now I am on the opposite end where I want to play everything in my collection until I'm sick of it or at least feel pretty competent with it. One of the guys from that group is close to 2000 games now, but I don't often game with them anymore. I'm a middle ground. I'm interested and curious about new games, but I won't buy a ton sight-unseen. There are plenty of people buying new games and I can try those. Like Lorini said, every game was a new game once; it's their quality that makes them classics. If a new game fires an old one, I'm cool with that, but I'm not going to buy all of them looking for it. Also living with a partner and a dog in 450 sq ft. keeps that collection ssssssssslim. re rpgs Ghostbusters is the best rpg unless you like super crunchy combat so if you like gloomhaven stay away Countblanc posted:For the people asking about RPG systems with good combat, maybe check out Strike! this better be about seizing the means of production
|
|
#
?
May 31, 2018 18:55
|
|
