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the reason conservatives called California a failed state had nothing to do with the economy and everything to do with budget shortfalls because of the stupid two thirds majority rule in the legislature
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May 31, 2018 15:14
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What do Californians have to do to get rid of the jungle primary? Would it take another referendum, or could state reps revise it?
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May 31, 2018 15:15
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I think, since we amended it into our constitution, we'd have to do another amendment to replace it with something else, hopefully including some sort of instant-runoff action, so we don't have all this primary + runoff + general bullshit that just wastes everybody's time and money. (And let's crank the Assembly up to 180 members or so and draw up new, three-member districts. The Senate can go to 100 and do five-member districts.)
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May 31, 2018 15:32
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Cup Runneth Over posted:Good job ignoring my actual point. Convenient that you didn't quote any of the rest of my post where I made it. What point are you talking about? The only point you made that I ignored was an argument I usually think is wrong or is kind of simplistic, which is: “economy does poorly while current government is being run by executive leader, therefore the executive is wholly to blame for immediate economic problems.” I’ll look more into the claim later. Ron Jeremy posted:The new deal and later war industries, particularly aerospace. I don’t have an opinion regarding the New Deal, but I agree with you regarding war industries. In my post I said that Bay Area’s tech industry was created by DoD funding. But that’s the Federal Government, not the State Government. silence_kit fucked around with this message at 16:04 on May 31, 2018 |
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May 31, 2018 15:42
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Tuxedo Gin posted:We don't need to claim that California is successful because of the state government - the fact that we are successful in spite of the government is enough to derail all conservative arguments. When I point out that most of California’s success has little to do with its state government, it still undermines the point though. California has so many built-in advantages that it will do well no matter how the government is run. It is much harder to turn e.g. Mississippi around. I don’t think you can attribute the poverty of Mississippi mostly to its current conservative state government’s public policy. A lot of it is historical and out of the Mississippi Government’s ability to fix.
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May 31, 2018 16:39
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Anybody remember a site called something like "Bob on the Propositions" where a guy broke down the pro's and con's of this stuff? Also, lol, my work finally allows cagreens.org again and they have their positions listed for propositions on the "November 2018" ballot, instead of the "June 2018" ballot. Good job, guys.
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May 31, 2018 16:46
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silence_kit posted:What point are you talking about? The only point you made that I ignored was an argument I usually think is wrong or is kind of simplistic, which is: “economy does poorly while current government is being run by executive leader, therefore the executive is wholly to blame for immediate economic problems.” I’ll look more into the claim later. Do you have some sort of blindness condition that only allows you to read text in parentheses? Again, you do not appear to be arguing in good faith. I strongly suspect you are only here to sealion. I regret to inform you that no one here cares about your hot take that the State's economic policy has no bearing on its economy. Cup Runneth Over posted:According to conservatives, California's left-leaning policies alone should have driven the state into abject poverty. It's not that leftism has allowed California to prosper, but that everyone on the right agrees that it has driven California to ruin. Which it hasn't.
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May 31, 2018 17:02
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CPColin posted:Anybody remember a site called something like "Bob on the Propositions" where a guy broke down the pro's and con's of this stuff? Pete rates the props http://www.peterates.com/index.shtml His reasoning for no on prop 72 is noble (amending prop 13 makes it more palatable when we should be replacing it) but flawed but it’s gonna pass anyways so a yes/no doesn’t matter.
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May 31, 2018 17:12
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Gonna guess that someone with a red text from making GBS threads up a feminism thread may not be a useful person to argue with.
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May 31, 2018 17:13
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FCKGW posted:Pete rates the props Thanks! I have the same feelings about prop 72 and I'm all about the useless protest voting. I'll probably also leave 69 blank or vote No, because I don't like these, "Everybody agrees this isn't likely to be a problem, there's no opposition to it, but let's put it on the ballot anyway!" propositions that keep popping up.
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May 31, 2018 17:27
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CPColin posted:I think, since we amended it into our constitution, we'd have to do another amendment to replace it with something else, hopefully including some sort of instant-runoff action, so we don't have all this primary + runoff + general bullshit that just wastes everybody's time and money. I think there is also a theoretical basis for getting it deemed unconstitutional given the reasoning in the opinion for Burdick v. Takushi, but getting to that point seems exceedingly challenging.
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May 31, 2018 19:12
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Arsenic Lupin posted:What do Californians have to do to get rid of the jungle primary? Would it take another referendum, or could state reps revise it? I'm still undecided on the top-two system. If de Leon gets to run against Feinstein in the general, that's probably going to tip me in favor of keeping it.
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Jun 1, 2018 00:35
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Family Values posted:I'm still undecided on the top-two system. If de Leon gets to run against Feinstein in the general, that's probably going to tip me in favor of keeping it. Ranked choice voting
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Jun 1, 2018 00:38
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The Glumslinger posted:Ranked choice voting This guy gets it.
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Jun 1, 2018 00:47
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The Glumslinger posted:Ranked choice voting That's a better solution, but the stroke I would inevitably have from arguing with all the "b-b-but it's so COMPLICATED!" types is a strike against it.
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Jun 1, 2018 02:28
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ranked-choice is simple: pick the candidate you want the most for 1, the candidate you want the second most for 2, then rank the rest by how funny their names are, 3-whatever
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Jun 1, 2018 02:51
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Sent in my ballot, goons. Tell me what I did wrong. Some of these idiots I did 5 minutes of googling then voted. 68: Yes 69: Yes 70: No 71: Yes 72: Yes US Senate: Kevin De Leon Gov: Delaine Eastin Lt. Gov: Gayle McLaughlin Secretary of State: Ruben Major (lol) Attorney General: Dave Jones Other ones: Who cares Santa Clara stuff worth mentioning: Sheriff: This one sucks they're all cops. Surprising since we have organizations like Debug plus a diddler incumbent who recently presided over a brutal murder of a mentally ill man by correctional officers Recall Judge Aaron Persky: No Persky Replacement if recalled: Angela Storey
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Jun 1, 2018 03:08
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Put 1 for the candidate you actually want, put 2 for the lesser of two evils, assign 3-X for the rest of the candidates according to your Magic 8-Ball, and then put X for the greater of two evils.
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Jun 1, 2018 03:08
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silence_kit posted:These things seem to me to be not that related to the merits of the California State Government--what am I missing here? Public colleges in California were tuition-free until Reagan became governor.
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Jun 1, 2018 03:18
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Certain conservative criticism of California comes *so close* to being right. They’ll point out that the middle class is leaving in droves due to affordability issues. They leave out the part explaining why those issues exist: we’re choking in our own success so hard that California real estate is worth a fortune due to the vast number of well paid workers. Some will argue of course that it’s all a giant deck of cards that will collapse when the job creators wake up and realize they’re all better off in Texas, or that the coastal areas aren’t the Real California (that honor belongs to the white, Republican inland counties full of stalwart farmers that are struggling).
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Jun 1, 2018 05:59
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ProperGanderPusher posted:Certain conservative criticism of California comes *so close* to being right. They’ll point out that the middle class is leaving in droves due to affordability issues. They leave out the part explaining why those issues exist: we’re choking in our own success so hard that California real estate is worth a fortune due to the vast number of well paid workers. Correction, the Bay Area is seeing an influx of well paid workers. The latest population figures show that the state had a net negative in immigration vs emmigration with the majority of the people moving into the state around the Bay Area (which had a huge net positive population growth when examined by itself), while SoCal has been in the process of having a giant net negative growth (moving the total state totals into the red). Additionally, the net population growth has been high earners, while lower income and middle-income people are being priced out and are leaving the state in droves. I know I'm pretty negative about this state in this thread, but I actually do believe it's doing a lot of things right. The way middle-income people are getting priced out in SoCal is really bad though, and it's going to lead to a disaster eventually. EDIT: An article link because I hate it when people don't provide proof. https://www.scpr.org/news/2018/05/03/82740/la-is-losing-people-to-other-states-while-the-bay/ Anonymous Zebra fucked around with this message at 08:07 on Jun 1, 2018 |
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Jun 1, 2018 08:04
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Tuxedo Gin posted:Conservative propaganda has brainwashed the rest of the country into firmly believing that California is a failed and bankrupt state. A coworker from Texas tried to play that card in a discussion recently and in typical conservative fashion got dismissive and wanted to to change the subject ("I don't actually care") when corrected. im in MN for a conference and my uber driver upon asking where i am from declared that there is a lot of construction in MN due to their surpless whereas in CA there is none bc we are broke. i rememered this tweet but did not speak up as i want to preserve my 4.8 rating
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Jun 1, 2018 08:12
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Tarezax posted:got a text from the Genevieve Jones campaign for Issa's district. Was already planning to vote for her but I forgot to fill out my ballot this weekend. Guess I'll take care of it tonight Thanks for your support! I’ve been throwing time, sweat, and money into her campaign cause she’s an amazing candidate and we have a solid shot at winning this. gently caress Stephans and Dumanis.
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Jun 1, 2018 09:31
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The Wiggly Wizard posted:
nah gently caress this guy normally im way less bullish wrt judges and the electoral process but that guy loving sucks and is a low key monster
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Jun 1, 2018 16:04
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Anonymous Zebra posted:I know I'm pretty negative about this state in this thread, but I actually do believe it's doing a lot of things right. The way middle-income people are getting priced out in SoCal is really bad though, and it's going to lead to a disaster eventually. Yeah this is my take as well. CA is, as always, just doing what the rest of the country is doing, only faster. So the middle class is getting hosed super hard while the top 10% (mostly boomers and techies) have a grand old time.
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Jun 1, 2018 16:41
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I wonder why the north/south divide? Is it more of in the north there's a sense of "this is the best place in the country, no way I'm leaving" where the south doesn't have that sort of attachment so they're more likely to move? Or maybe as the southland moves more inland to place like IE and Antelope Valley that those areas are more likely to cash out and move to places like Arizona and Texas?
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Jun 1, 2018 17:34
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I mean, I'd say it's because there's a huge physical divide between LA and SF, and their surrounding areas. California is loving huge and you can't expect two places that far away to not become... well, distant. Plus, they compete for the national spotlight, as two enormously successful parts of California, which naturally incites a bit of rivalry. And on top of that you have the fact that SoCal is the best and NoCal isn't, and it's understandable that they would be jealous.
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Jun 1, 2018 17:39
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My guess, without literally looking at any numbers or graphs or doing any research (in other words, this is right out of my rear end): the economy in Northern CA is still expanding from tech. SoCal is much more stagnant. The industries are established, they aren't particularly growing. The movie industry is shrinking. Also there's a lot more unskilled work down here, I feel like. Especially in the exburbs of the IE, where the local economy has either been gutted by globalization (San Bernardino) or never really developed beyond a few specialized areas (Riverside). They're getting hit super hard by the housing prices. I know I mentioned it before but a friend of mine just paid 360k for a 1.6k square foot house built in 1951 on a not particularly large lot in Riverside in a not particularly nice neighborhood (not a BAD neighborhood but just ok) but has a decent school district. That's completely insane.
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Jun 1, 2018 17:40
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Megaman's Jockstrap posted:I know I mentioned it before but a friend of mine just paid 360k for a 1.6k square foot house built in 1951 on a not particularly large lot in Riverside in a not particularly nice neighborhood (not a BAD neighborhood but just ok) but has a decent school district. That's completely insane.
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Jun 1, 2018 17:47
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Megaman's Jockstrap posted:Yeah this is my take as well. CA is, as always, just doing what the rest of the country is doing, only faster. So the middle class is getting hosed super hard while the top 10% (mostly boomers and techies) have a grand old time. A techie friend of mine just paid 1.3 million goddamn dollars for a two bedroom house in Redwood City. It has a nice backyard, but still, it’s loving Redwood City. The school district is abominable, at least when I went to school there in the 90s. “Grand old time”, indeed.
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Jun 1, 2018 17:51
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Well I'm sorry for misrepresenting his struggle, I only personally know some OC techies and they're doing ok. They all bought in the early 2010 - 2013 though.
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Jun 1, 2018 17:53
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IE has a faster growing local economy than LA county right now but it's really dominated by only 2 segments, construction and logistics. The IE is married to the hip to both LA and OC and we've still got a ton of available land. We're building housing like crazy and huge logistics centers, but there's still no "downtown" or business area to speak of really. Everyone commutes into LA and OC or works in the warehouses in the are, there's a few pockets of tech centers in like Rancho, Ontario and Redlands and some sort of nursing/health industry. But if you're commuting 1hr from IE into OC to do accounting paperwork for some law office, you can do that anywhere and there's nothing really tying you to the region, unlike NorCal where if you want to work for Facebook there's only one Facebook. Megaman's Jockstrap posted:I know I mentioned it before but a friend of mine just paid 360k for a 1.6k square foot house built in 1951 on a not particularly large lot in Riverside in a not particularly nice neighborhood (not a BAD neighborhood but just ok) but has a decent school district. That's completely insane. Prices are still below their bubble peak and half of what OC would cost. It's relatively cheap but if you're a regular guy working at a warehouse in Moreno Valley it's still out of your reach.
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Jun 1, 2018 17:56
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FCKGW posted:Prices are still below their bubble peak and half of what OC would cost. New 2000+ sq. ft. home can be had in the 400s. Right but OC has a lot of industry and skilled work, people can pay those kinds of prices. IE doesn't. 2k a month house payments on a warehouse manager's salary is brutal. Also Riverside absolutely has a downtown, I go there all the time. It's really quite nice IMO (although obviously pretty small scale). We're also getting Cheech Marin's latino culture museum!
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Jun 1, 2018 17:58
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Megaman's Jockstrap posted:Right but OC has a lot of industry and skilled work, people can pay those kinds of prices. IE doesn't. I didn't really mean "downtown" in a local sense, I meant kinda of like a regional core for the entire area. I really like Riverside btw. Hoping to move there or Redlands some day.
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Jun 1, 2018 18:11
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Apologies for the misunderstanding, and I absolutely agree with you. The sprawl is awful. The really sad thing is to look at some pics of San Bernardino from the 70s, it was kicking rear end. Now it's a husk. Feel like that's the future, sometimes.
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Jun 1, 2018 18:16
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Megaman's Jockstrap posted:Well I'm sorry for misrepresenting his struggle, I only personally know some OC techies and they're doing ok. They all bought in the early 2010 - 2013 though. Oh, I’m not saying he has it bad. It’s just insane that being able to afford a house at all is considered living the high life in the Bay Area these days.
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Jun 1, 2018 18:47
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I recently moved to SoCal after living in Baltimore and DC for about ten years, and it's incredible to me how even though the economy is worse in Baltimore and wages are low, most of my friends have bought houses or are planning to in the near future. Hell, I even have a couple friends who were able to buy in DC. Here it's all renters and people living in family homes.
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Jun 1, 2018 19:00
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silence_kit posted:Can you really attribute California's economic success purely, or even mostly, to its state government policies? Taking the San Francisco Bay Area and its economic history as an example, below is my list of factors and events which in my opinion have had the greatest influence on the Bay Area economy: There are so many other factors, just with regards to Silicon Valley. For example, California is one of the only states that has always prohibited the imposition of non-compete agreements on employees. That is the factor that allows all those tech people to constantly jump from job to startup to job to startus, and keeps the whole innovation and tech spread churning along. Some experts believe that if Massachusetts had such laws, Route 128 would have been equal to or even more successful than Silicon Valley. https://law.stanford.edu/index.php?webauth-document=publication/256234/doc/slspublic/NYULawReview-74-3-Gilson.pdf this is just one example but there are many more
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Jun 1, 2018 19:03
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California has a major problem with propositions. The whole prop system was setup due to the huge corruption of the S&P Railroads, who just bought out both sides of politicians regardless of party. So when the progressive movement of the early 20th century went into full swing, the proposition thing was enacted to help the electorate vote on things directly without having corrupt politicians vote only how the S&P wanted. Now corporations just ad-buy the gently caress out of poo poo to have uninformed masses vote on poo poo how they want. Probably still more expensive for them then just buying out the politicians, but the same thing basically.
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Jun 1, 2018 19:11
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Winter Rose posted:I recently moved to SoCal after living in Baltimore and DC for about ten years, and it's incredible to me how even though the economy is worse in Baltimore and wages are low, most of my friends have bought houses or are planning to in the near future. Hell, I even have a couple friends who were able to buy in DC. At the rate things are going, DC is going to be nearly as expensive as NorCal in a few years.
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Jun 1, 2018 19:19
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