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Mister Kingdom posted:If you use a credit or debit card, it's $4.95. That seems a tad high. This is pretty rampant across the financial sector. The bank that holds the mortgage for my house charges you $5 for any payment that isn't handing over cash at a local branch, and I'm sure they'll eventually figure out a way to justify charging for that too. Krispy Wafer posted:That will always be the case, because the largest transactions are likely to be the most important. Like if you have a $700, a $200, and a $20 debut, but only $710 in your account the system will rightfully bounce the smaller two because that big check is likely rent or something. The fact that the bank will make $60 in fees versus $30 is the gravy that ensures it’ll never change. A more realistic scenario is you have $710 in the bank, make a number of small sub-$10 purchases followed by a large one that puts the account in the red, and they move the large purchase to the front of the queue - maximizing the number of individual overdrafts rather than what would occur if the transactions posted in the order they were made. Make no mistake - there is nothing altruistic about why banks engage in transaction stacking. It's solely to maximize the number of overdraft fees they can nail an account with. They've been sued numerous times over it, and it's supposed to be against financial regulations but it's just too profitable for them to stop and their only response to repeat litigation is to write mandatory arbitration clauses into account holder terms, and pay penalties in the rare case that the government actual penalizes them. Geoj has a new favorite as of 20:11 on Jun 2, 2018 |
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Jun 2, 2018 18:07
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Guy Axlerod posted:Electronic transfers still suck in the US. I tried paying my rent and it's over the previously unspecified limit for a Zelle transfer, and they were unwilling to raise the limit, or do anything with the routing number and account number I have for the landlord. My girlfriend had to pay the rent because the limits at her bank for Zelle are $3000 instead of $2000. What sucks is that you're paying over $2000 for rent. Bonking for money (AKA "contactless payment") is at risk of being DOA in the UK because it has a hard limit of £30. I can understand why, and I'm not entirely unhappy for that reason, but when you can't pay for a meal for two with it and you still have to get your card out unless you have exactly one NFC card in your wallet it's very inconvenient.
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Jun 2, 2018 18:11
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Jedit posted:Bonking for money (AKA "contactless payment") is at risk of being DOA in the UK because it has a hard limit of £30. I can understand why, and I'm not entirely unhappy for that reason, but when you can't pay for a meal for two with it and you still have to get your card out unless you have exactly one NFC card in your wallet it's very inconvenient. It's made bars operate a lot faster here.
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Jun 2, 2018 18:19
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Jerry Cotton posted:It's made bars operate a lot faster here. It made bars downright dangerous for me. I should just take cash next time.
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Jun 2, 2018 18:50
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Australia has it by default that if you try to buy something over $100 it asks you for the PIN. Makes it super easy to spot the dodgy card-thieving cunts. I'm pretty sure the many many banking apps allow you to change that PIN limit though.
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Jun 2, 2018 18:59
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Croccers posted:Australia has it by default that if you try to buy something over $100 it asks you for the PIN. Makes it super easy to spot the dodgy card-thieving cunts. Why? Because they purchase things that are as close to $100 as possible without going over? What happens in that case? Can the merchant request ID?
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Jun 2, 2018 19:05
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Jedit posted:What sucks is that you're paying over $2000 for rent. Likely they'll end up raising the limit over time once they figure things out. That's what happened here in aus (it started at a low hard limit, and has since been raised and you just need the pin if you exceed it, rather than needing to take your card out and use the chip reader.)
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Jun 2, 2018 19:24
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Jedit posted:What sucks is that you're paying over $2000 for rent. NFC was basically dead in the US until mobile payments came along. Now it's become fairly common. What's really dumb is when merchants have a hard limit on NFC transactions when using mobile payments like Apple Pay, even though it's the most secure method of all since the wallet is biometrically locked and the transactions are tokenized so skimming or replaying isn't possible. A close second is when you need to enter a card PIN or had to sign when using a mobile wallet, even though unlocking the phone to conduct the transaction requires an even longer PIN and/or biometrics. Thankfully US card processors completely dropped signature requirements a couple of months ago after realizing that making people draw an illegible squiggly line didn't actually prevent fraud, so that's finally going away as systems get updated. The_Franz has a new favorite as of 19:45 on Jun 2, 2018 |
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Jun 2, 2018 19:37
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Krispy Wafer posted:Why? Because they purchase things that are as close to $100 as possible without going over? General trick goes as so: 1: Buy something low cost to see if the card works first. Like some snacks or so. 2: Then they'll try with a pack of cigarettes or two or three, as close to the limit as they can get. 3a: If it fails they'll remove items until it works. 3b: If it worked then they'll try for a third transaction. At my work I'm allowed to ask for matching ID if I think something is up and refuse service. They'd like me to keep the card if possible but I'm not the loving police. Most people are savvy enough to go to a different store for each transaction. Honestly not that much different from the ol' stolen credit card and sign routine. You get a lil' bit of protection from the banks too if you're quick to call up and report your card stolen.
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Jun 2, 2018 19:40
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Krispy Wafer posted:The system is a joke though. My kid deposited her paycheck on Friday and was all like “WTF?” on Tuesday when it still hasn’t posted. You forget how annoying paper checks can be when you have direct deposit. (I'm in the US and use Charles Schwab for this, btw. They're not my main bank, but their lack of fees and digital deposit thing work really well for us as a secondary bank. Plus the people are lovely, if you ever need to talk to someone there.)
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Jun 2, 2018 19:51
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Krispy Wafer posted:That will always be the case, because the largest transactions are likely to be the most important. Like if you have a $700, a $200, and a $20 debut, but only $710 in your account the system will rightfully bounce the smaller two because that big check is likely rent or something. The fact that the bank will make $60 in fees versus $30 is the gravy that ensures it’ll never change. Except telling your landlord that "My bank is run by idiots who failed to post a deposit and therefor my rent check bounced on you, here is another one sorry about that" is a simple fix, whereas the bank explicitly is generating the maximums fees because gently caress you. There's no justification for it. None.
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Jun 2, 2018 20:14
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ryonguy posted:Except telling your landlord that "My bank is run by idiots who failed to post a deposit and therefor my rent check bounced on you, here is another one sorry about that" is a simple fix, whereas the bank explicitly is generating the maximums fees because gently caress you. Especially given the transactions usually post anyways. Prioritizing would make sense if they prevented overdrafting from happening by rejecting transactions, but instead they all go through in an order that best suits them. It’s also just super skeevy to gently caress people over harder in that situation. Exploiting those that already barely have enough money to cover their expenses.
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Jun 2, 2018 20:43
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Jedit posted:What sucks is that you're paying over $2000 for rent. In the U.K., we get unlimited for two-factor contactless. E.g Apple Pay and android pay with pin/fingerprint. Which is awesome, but our chip and pin fallback is poo poo. Better than the US tho “stick card in machine...” “computer says ... yes” wait, what? No pin, signature or anything?
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Jun 2, 2018 20:48
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Hirayuki posted:As a freelancer, nearly all of my clients pay by check--even my biggest client, which is a huge name in the field. But now I can deposit my payments via an app and the money shows up in my account that same day. They warn that deposits made after 4 PM will be finalized the next day, but that seems to be overly cautious CYA stuff, since even late-night deposits go right through. (I email clients invoices with the amount and my bank number, they bank transfer the funds over.)
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Jun 2, 2018 20:51
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With USAA you just take a picture of the front and back of the check. Limited to 3k a day or something like that, the rest takes a week to clear.
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Jun 2, 2018 20:52
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Metal Geir Skogul posted:With USAA you just take a picture of the front and back of the check. Limited to 3k a day or something like that, the rest takes a week to clear. That's fast. paying a check / cheque into a bank here can take 3 business days. You process them much faster. Is bank transfer not such a thing there?
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Jun 2, 2018 20:56
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It's a complete toss-up whether or not a bank or credit union even has a transfer to external account option available, and even if it is available, it's a toss-up whether or not they're actually completing an electronic transfer, or printing and mailing a check to the receiving bank.
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Jun 2, 2018 21:09
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I... I actually like my bank. Even though I go in only every two weeks to deposit my paycheck, they all greet me nicely by name and don't even ask for my ID, even though I live in a fairly large city. They once waived an overdraft when I honestly admitted it was my gently caress up. The restaurant I work at uses the same bank, and a teller just told me that they're actively working to find a rate that our owner will agree to so we can get direct deposit (payroll expenses are apparently higher if you do direct vs paper; I'd have thought it was the other way around). They even have a checking account you collect interest on, I mean good luck finding a bank that has anything decent for savings accounts let alone a checking. Plus they're always celebrating "National (Some Kind of Food) Day" so I'm always scoring a free bagel or a slice of pizza or donuts or something whenever I go in. A+, would bank again. SUCH a refreshing change from the loving vampires at Wells Fargo.
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Jun 2, 2018 21:10
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Metal Geir Skogul posted:It's a complete toss-up whether or not a bank or credit union even has a transfer to external account option available, and even if it is available, it's a toss-up whether or not they're actually completing an electronic transfer, or printing and mailing a check to the receiving bank. I could cope with check deposit via phone app at that speed. Post though aarg. Thanks for the info, useful to know! Here you can get checks / cheques, but it's very rare. Bank transfer is common though for payments. How do you guys get paid if you worked full-time for a company? Still by check? GRINDCORE MEGGIDO has a new favorite as of 21:18 on Jun 2, 2018 |
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Jun 2, 2018 21:13
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The_Franz posted:NFC was basically dead in the US until mobile payments came along. Now it's become fairly common. It has? Since when? I'm in the US and I've literally never seen anyone use contactless payment. Not even one of those gas station fobs they were pushing so hard a few years ago, and certainly not with a phone. Granted, I don't spend all day watching people check out at stores, so maybe this is just an effect of a limited sample. Or maybe I just shop at un-hip places. But even on the internet, the newfangled payment methods aren't all that popular. I'm a sysadmin for a medium-sized retail website, and the huge majority of purchases there are made with good old fashioned credit cards, with Paypal a distant second. Apple pay is waaaaay down in the noise at maybe one or two percent, and I suspect it only has that much because of people who order with our iphone app instead of the site.
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Jun 2, 2018 21:22
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GRINDCORE MEGGIDO posted:I could cope with check deposit via phone app at that speed. Post though aarg. Thanks for the info, useful to know! No. Direct deposit is mandated by every company I've worked for in the last 10-15 years, though some have offered a "payment card" that charges you out the rear end for withdrawals if you don't have a bank account. Nobody has offered a live (negotiable) check except in the case of bonuses or errors. Some banks, like USAA, make the funds available the moment they are pending (as long as you haven't had any overdrafts in the last 12 months), meaning I get paid on Thursday morning most paychecks. Other banks make you wait until Friday, and some small credit unions may not make funds available until the following Monday or Tuesday, though that's internal policy for holding funds and has nothing to do with banking law.
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Jun 2, 2018 21:24
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Grumbletron 4000 posted:I've had that exact thing happen. Got low in my debit account. Swiped a few vending machines and stuff with a larger charge pending. Sure enough the bank made sure the larger one went through first so I got like 5 overdraft charges. I even had the money to cover it all in my savings. And this was my credit union too. Not even a big bad corporate bank. This is why I like my bank. They're a small, local one that doesn't do poo poo like this. I haven't overdrafted my account in a long time but the last time I did they called me up and just said what amounted to "hey, you made a mistake and overdrafted your account. It's by like $20 so we got you covered if you make a deposit in the next few days. Ciao." If it's just a random, occasional mistake they won't aggressively hit you with every penalty they can.
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Jun 2, 2018 21:25
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My one (overseas) client who uses bank transfer takes out their sending fee before paying me, at which point I pay another fee for receiving it. Bank transfer--internationally, anyway--is not all it's cracked up to be. Of course, having an understanding/much bigger client who doesn't make you pay the fee for which they are responsible makes a huge difference. It's always the smaller clients paying small amounts that get double-dipped for bank fees, resulting in a net payment of far less than what I invoiced.  It's my overseas client who somehow kept his US bank account and pays by check who wins the day. Powered Descent posted:It has? Since when? I'm in the US and I've literally never seen anyone use contactless payment. Not even one of those gas station fobs they were pushing so hard a few years ago, and certainly not with a phone.  .
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Jun 2, 2018 21:26
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VanguardFelix posted:Especially given the transactions usually post anyways. Prioritizing would make sense if they prevented overdrafting from happening by rejecting transactions, but instead they all go through in an order that best suits them. The transactions don’t always post regardless. Depends on what your overdraft limit is. If all the transactions were going to be paid anyway then yes, it’s skeevy. Some banks have gotten in trouble for prioritizing debits to maximize income, so I imagine there are justifications they have to meet. You’re right in that the system fucks over the people who can afford it the least. I think the actual cost to the bank for a NSF payment is like a buck and they charge over $30 in fees. And if you’re poor and get your account closed with a negative balance you can kiss off any chance of ever opening another account at a different bank.
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Jun 2, 2018 21:37
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GRINDCORE MEGGIDO posted:
In the restaurant biz, as well as many mom'n'pop retail places here in the US, it's fairly common to get checks instead of direct. In fact, kitchens are generally staffed by a wretched hive of scum and villainy*, so even if a place offers DD, many folks don't want it. I've known at least two people that didn't take DD at places that offer checks because it helps to hide you from wage garnishment. Apparently big payroll companies like Paychex are more than happy to give your info to debt collectors without warning, and next thing you know, bam, that deposit you were counting on to pay your rent is $300 less. Paper checks skirt this somehow. Other folks just want to take their checks to a check cashing place so the Migra doesn't catch on to them, or to get their drug money ASAP. *Myself included.
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Jun 2, 2018 21:51
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Powered Descent posted:It has? Since when? I'm in the US and I've literally never seen anyone use contactless payment. Not even one of those gas station fobs they were pushing so hard a few years ago, and certainly not with a phone. Almost all of the places I shop at regularly support it, small shops included, and I don't live in a hipster tech hub. GRINDCORE MEGGIDO posted:Here you can get checks / cheques, but it's very rare. Bank transfer is common though for payments. The more I read about the checking system, the more it seems like a bad idea in this age since it relies on security through obscurity like a lot of old systems, assuming that only banks can initiate transfers or print checks. A single check has enough information to drain your account. There are check printing companies who will print checks with anything you want without verification, or you can electronically withdraw money using the account and routing numbers. "No Personal Checks" has been appearing at more and more places over the years though. I sent a package via UPS a few days ago and they have a sign saying that as of last year they don't even take cash anymore, just cards.
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Jun 2, 2018 21:57
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Jerry Cotton posted:This made me think of the last time I saw cheques mentioned anywhere in IRL life and it was a sign on a cash register in 1998 saying "we don't accept cheques because no-one uses cheques". I can’t remember the last time I’ve ever used a check. Maybe 6 years ago? Payroll demanded a VOIDED check to set up direct deposit. I had to go to the bank and have them print me a page of checks. There’s three to a page and I think the other two have probably settled to the bottom of a desk drawer in my home office. Other than that weird request from payroll, I can’t think of a time in the last 15 years or so where I’ve needed paper checks.
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Jun 2, 2018 23:39
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Proteus Jones posted:Other than that weird request from payroll, I can’t think of a time in the last 15 years or so where I’ve needed paper checks. I pay my rent by check. They aren't advanced enough to accept online payments. This year when I renewed my lease, I was able to do that online and download a copy. I come home one day to find the lady in the rental office had printed it out and hung it on my door. So much for modern technology.
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Jun 2, 2018 23:47
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We use checks for our son's school (not tuition--that's direct-debit--but registration fees, various club activity fees, lunches, etc.), for piano lessons (paid to an individual), and for other non-school extracurricular activities (summer camp, etc.). I pay my hair stylist by check because it's probably better for him than paying the salon with a credit card and waiting for them to reimburse him. We donate to our church by check, and if I owe my parents anything (they buy us poo poo with their Costco membership, etc.), I pay them by check. We also often pay for home services by check: repair of our garage door, fence, air-conditioning unit, etc. If you don't use checks, would you expect all of these people to take credit cards or direct deposit or something? I can't picture the repairman having a Square reader on his phone, for example.
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Jun 2, 2018 23:57
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For small things like piano lessons or hair stylists, cash. Schools and tradies take direct deposit.
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Jun 3, 2018 00:04
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Jabor posted:For small things like piano lessons or hair stylists, cash. 
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Jun 3, 2018 00:05
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Hirayuki posted:You have cheap piano lessons and hair stylists. How much does a one-hour piano lesson cost you?
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Jun 3, 2018 00:07
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Hirayuki posted:We use checks for our son's school (not tuition--that's direct-debit--but registration fees, various club activity fees, lunches, etc.), for piano lessons (paid to an individual), and for other non-school extracurricular activities (summer camp, etc.). I pay my hair stylist by check because it's probably better for him than paying the salon with a credit card and waiting for them to reimburse him. We donate to our church by check, and if I owe my parents anything (they buy us poo poo with their Costco membership, etc.), I pay them by check. We also often pay for home services by check: repair of our garage door, fence, air-conditioning unit, etc. Uhh I'd expect most of them to accept cash, you know, that other vaguely paper-like money thing? e: beaten
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Jun 3, 2018 00:09
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I'm in the UK and I have never ever had a personal cheque. I've received cheques on the odd occasion, but I've never had a cheque book or issued one myself.
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Jun 3, 2018 00:11
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Jabor posted:How much does a one-hour piano lesson cost you? Weatherman posted:Uhh I'd expect most of them to accept cash, you know, that other vaguely paper-like money thing?
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Jun 3, 2018 00:23
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In Australasia, where younger people often don't have cheque books, they'd all be paid by Electronic Fund Transfer at Point of Sale (EFTPOS) Card, credit card using the same reader or internet transfer at home. Generally the home services would send a bill (unless you're paying cash). Typically the piano teacher would include an account number on the bill for you to do the internet transfer. Most of those would accept a cheque as well. E: last time some friends pooled money for a meal, everyone was flicking money around on their phones in a way that left me completely out in the cold,so there's that too. must find out more about it. Jaguars! has a new favorite as of 00:31 on Jun 3, 2018 |
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Jun 3, 2018 00:28
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Hirayuki posted:$425 for the garage-door guy, or $325 to get the fence fixed (per my check register). Here in LA the average garage door guy/fence fixer would probably prefer cash so they can report it as $400 or $300 to the tax man.
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Jun 3, 2018 00:41
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$25 a lesson is a totally reasonable amount to pay in cash. If you're pre-paying for a bunch of lessons that would be a direct deposit. A tradie is just going to leave an invoice and you'll pay direct deposit. They know where you live, after all. Not totally sure how it works if they don't trust you to pay the bill.
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Jun 3, 2018 00:43
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mehall posted:I'm in the UK and I have never ever had a personal cheque. Funnily enough, recently I have been conscious of how little cash I use. In the past 2 months I think I bought some tomatoes from a market once and paid for a pub lunch/single drink once. Everything else goes on a card (oh, coins for parking) A few years ago, I would always make sure I had at least £50 in various notes sizes in my wallet and now I often only carry a single note.
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Jun 3, 2018 00:52
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Hirayuki posted:If you don't use checks, would you expect all of these people to take credit cards or direct deposit or something? I can't picture the repairman having a Square reader on his phone, for example. Actually they do, because a lot of people don't even have checks anymore. If you open a new checking account at my bank and several others, the only no-fee account is debit/electronic transfers only. The_Franz has a new favorite as of 01:14 on Jun 3, 2018 |
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Jun 3, 2018 01:06
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