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As a country Germany has a massive psychological hangup over WW2 that prevents their political leaders from telling other countries what to do. This is problematic when Germany is by default in charge of the Eurozone and everyone desperately needs it to start making some hard decisions that will impact other countries.
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Jun 3, 2018 00:41
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Mycroft Holmes posted:going to need a c/d on this hey guns Well considering that there was no real concept of "Germany" as a singular nation until the 1800's, it's kind of hard to really give the 1,000 years of Germany history claim. The "Germanies" were just the incestuous clusterfuck of minor princedoms that did nothing but bicker and fight before then. Some were part of the HRE, some weren't, some were both. Like, every map I've seen of the Germanies that tried to lay it out always had a color for "This region is too confused for the human eye to make out at this scale." Also, the 30 years war in the 1600's, where everyone else used the Germanies as their mosh pit for an entire generation for religious* would be worth 30 years of pigeons making GBS threads continuously on that magical record this person is claiming, or just further proof that such a record simply does not exist. *The reasons everyone claimed for the war was basically religious, and it might have been fairly religious oriented at the times as Catholics, Lutherans and Calvinists fought and tried to forcibly convert each other but it was pretty blatant politics and power games were the real name of the game. Which is why you had Catholic France propping up just about anyone (such as Lutheran Sweden) against Catholic Spain and the HRE to try to weaken the Hapsburg dynasties. In short: HEY GUNS posted:y'all gonna have to define "success" here Dude needs to define his terms...so we can mock them harder.
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Jun 3, 2018 00:56
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Some things were better in 1942, at least according to that video documentary Soviet Storm it seemed like the Soviets were better prepared to deny bridges, equipment, and other facilities to slowdown or reduce the value of the German advance. It seems like the fighting in Georgia was going far worse than mountain fighting should have gone though.
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Jun 3, 2018 01:16
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Raenir Salazar posted:Some things were better in 1942, at least according to that video documentary Soviet Storm it seemed like the Soviets were better prepared to deny bridges, equipment, and other facilities to slowdown or reduce the value of the German advance. It was not 1941 but I wouldn't mistake that defense for something well-managed. A lot of understrength Axis units went far further than they really should have.
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Jun 3, 2018 02:13
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FWIW didn't the 1941 Soviets do a pretty good job of evacuating heavy industry and ripping up railways etc?
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Jun 3, 2018 03:27
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MikeCrotch posted:I was trying to remember if the Bersaglieri were the dudes who run literally everywhere, then remembered someone talking about their marching band In a vaguely related army music thing, I discovered American army Companies from Samoa have a lot marches in their own language and in a traditional Polynesian style. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=885Ob9Lfk-M They also have a pretty good chorus https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zb5ZY8ZIvC0
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Jun 3, 2018 06:02
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Fangz posted:FWIW didn't the 1941 Soviets do a pretty good job of evacuating heavy industry and ripping up railways etc? Too good! There were some months in 1941 were production of everything was basically zero, because tons of factories were still being transported/rebuild beyond the Ural. The Red Army was in serious danger during that period. Edit: Another reason why 1942 became the turning point: In this year, US-relief started to arrive in earnest. What the Soviet Union had desperately needed the most was trucks, and the US delivered. At the end of the war, tons of those Studebaker-trucks ended up in service in the Red Army. While most where used to transport stuff, some where apparently even used as chassis to truck Katyusha-launchers around.
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Jun 3, 2018 06:43
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Alchenar posted:As a country Germany has a massive psychological hangup over WW2 that prevents their political leaders from telling other countries what to do. This is problematic when Germany is by default in charge of the Eurozone and everyone desperately needs it to start making some hard decisions that will impact other countries.
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Jun 3, 2018 07:21
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HEY GUNS posted:the obvious solution is to bring back the Empire Oh is that what you want? Because that's how you get Wilhelms.
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Jun 3, 2018 07:25
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Vincent Van Goatse posted:Oh is that what you want? Because that's how you get Wilhelms. wrong empire!!!!!! also wilhelm I was ok
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Jun 3, 2018 07:29
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Vincent Van Goatse posted:Oh is that what you want? Because that's how you get Wilhelms. what's wrong with empress wilhelmina amalia  i mean, except perhaps her hairstyle
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Jun 3, 2018 07:44
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HEY GUNS posted:the obvious solution is to bring back the Empire But what kind of holy Roman empire has sane borders and less than a hundred members? A shameful one, that's what.
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Jun 3, 2018 08:30
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Alchenar posted:As a country Germany has a massive psychological hangup over WW2 that prevents their political leaders from telling other countries what to do. This is problematic when Germany is by default in charge of the Eurozone and everyone desperately needs it to start making some hard decisions that will impact other countries. Without going into a massive derail, no, Germany does not have any hangups about telling other countries what to do, and is, in fact, doing it a lot.
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Jun 3, 2018 09:25
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Alchenar posted:As a country Germany has a massive psychological hangup over WW2 that prevents their political leaders from telling other countries what to do. This is problematic when Germany is by default in charge of the Eurozone and everyone desperately needs it to start making some hard decisions that will impact other countries. You seem to have missed the bit where Germany has put goldbug libertarians in charge of the ECB, unless that's what you mean by "hard decisions"
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Jun 3, 2018 10:58
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my dad posted:Without going into a massive derail, no, Germany does not have any hangups about telling other countries what to do, and is, in fact, doing it a lot. Also trying to avoid the massive derail but to clarify my position; Germany has no hangups about telling other countries what to do and what the conditions of the deal are when the conversation starts 'hey Germany can you give us some money/backstop our economy?'. Germany has massive hangups about proactively pushing political/institutional change over other countries in Europe. That's how Germany always ends up as the bad cop and part of why the diplomacy in Europe is so awkward. e: or to put it another way, the Germans don't ever want to be the ones that start the conversation.
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Jun 3, 2018 12:58
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No.
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Jun 3, 2018 14:00
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Chillbro Baggins posted:Yeah, rather a lot of Scandiwhovia (do the Finns count as that? Anyway, all those poor fuckers in the frozen north of Europe) were into bicycle infantry around WWII, and some quite late into the Cold War. I think it's Swedish army bikes that were a big thing in the US-based milsurp mail-order catalogs when they finally got rid of them ten or fifteen years ago. Tias posted:Also, a couple platoons of bicycle and motorcycle infantry fought pretty decently delaying the German invasion of Denmark, at least considering that they were thrown in the grinder to show a token resistance effort while their officers were vacationing in Sweden so they wouldn't get iced. Essentially, cavalry soldiers on bicycles, though I think some the motorbikes had mounted MGs. E: and of course finns are scandinavians, they're our vodka drinking knife fighting crazy uncles   
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Jun 3, 2018 14:20
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my dad posted:No. Well, you're wrong
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Jun 3, 2018 14:45
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No fighting in the war room guys
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Jun 3, 2018 15:02
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Tias posted:Essentially, cavalry soldiers on bicycles, though I think some the motorbikes had mounted MGs. It's not cav on bicycles, it's mobile infantry - basically dragoons
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Jun 3, 2018 15:49
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Fangz posted:No fighting in the war room guys No you
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Jun 3, 2018 15:53
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I'm with my dad. The EU is suspiciously well-tailored to our needs for something that we weren't pushing hard to shape. It's just that our goals largely don't make us look good in public discussion, so back-room pushing works better for us.
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Jun 3, 2018 15:54
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aphid_licker posted:I'm with my dad. The EU is suspiciously well-tailored to our needs for something that we weren't pushing hard to shape. It's just that our goals largely don't make us look good in public discussion, so back-room pushing works better for us. If you think those goals include making us look like idiots I may have to agree with you
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Jun 3, 2018 16:01
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Squalid posted:In a vaguely related army music thing, I discovered American army Companies from Samoa have a lot marches in their own language and in a traditional Polynesian style. I didn't know that America still did localized army companies. I thought they all just got mixed up. Nice singing though. HEY GUNS posted:wrong empire!!!!!! You've had too many empires. Go home, you're drunk.
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Jun 3, 2018 16:10
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Alchenar posted:Germany has massive hangups about proactively pushing political/institutional change over other countries in Europe. So Tsipras and Varoufakis got derailed by what, Scotch mist?
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Jun 3, 2018 19:35
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Alchenar posted:Also trying to avoid the massive derail but to clarify my position; Germany has no hangups about telling other countries what to do and what the conditions of the deal are when the conversation starts 'hey Germany can you give us some money/backstop our economy?'. Germany has massive hangups about proactively pushing political/institutional change over other countries in Europe. That's how Germany always ends up as the bad cop and part of why the diplomacy in Europe is so awkward. This is laughably untrue, kindly stop.
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Jun 3, 2018 20:11
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Trin Tragula posted:So Tsipras and Varoufakis got derailed by what, Scotch mist? I mean all they said was 'if you want to renegotiate this done deal where we give you a massive amount of cash then okay but we still need some assurances about how you spend it' and that got Merkel literally compared to Hitler in Greece so a) yes they are still touchy about anything that looks like telling other countries what to do, and b) Tsipras and Varoufakis decided to cause a run on their own banks for reasons, nobody made that happen but themselves. e: ^^ I stopped a while ago, people keep coming back to argue. I'm happy to agree to disagree.
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Jun 3, 2018 20:11
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Trin Tragula posted:So Tsipras and Varoufakis got derailed by what, Scotch mist? I was following that shitshow on the news and my conclusion was, their own stupidity derailed them
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Jun 3, 2018 20:56
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Libluini posted:What the Soviet Union had desperately needed the most was trucks, and the US delivered. I've always wondered how that came about. Did the Soviets deliberately decide "the Americans will sell us all the trucks we can use, we should focus on building other things", or was it a case of "We just don't have enough truck factories, could you send us some? Wait, you can give us how many?". Or, in other words, was the Lend-Lease truck situation intentional, or a happy accident?
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Jun 3, 2018 22:01
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Gnoman posted:I've always wondered how that came about. Did the Soviets deliberately decide "the Americans will sell us all the trucks we can use, we should focus on building other things", or was it a case of "We just don't have enough truck factories, could you send us some? Wait, you can give us how many?". If I had to guess - I know they took a look at American (and British) tanks and were like 'these are pretty meh' by and large. Plus logistical concerns like ammo types. They took some but conversely a truck is a truck (and a train a train, a half track a half track, Lend-Lease sent a bunch of those too), America is good at all of those and the differences are less important anyway.
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Jun 3, 2018 22:33
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The Soviets decided to axe tractor production to focus on tanks in the early fall of 1941 before any Lend Lease supplies came through, so I doubt the trucks were any different.
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Jun 3, 2018 22:33
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Ensign Expendable posted:The Soviets decided to axe tractor production to focus on tanks in the early fall of 1941 before any Lend Lease supplies came through, so I doubt the trucks were any different.
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Jun 3, 2018 22:36
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Ensign Expendable posted:The Soviets decided to axe tractor production to focus on tanks in the early fall of 1941 before any Lend Lease supplies came through, so I doubt the trucks were any different. Eh? Noteable war fighting tool the tractor or did you mean artillery prime movers? You need trucks for motorised infantry, John Deere's finest not so much.
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Jun 3, 2018 22:37
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darthbob88 posted:Yeah, my speculation was that they said "Without trucks and trains and logistics that aren't pulled by a horse, we'll have a hard time fighting, but without tanks, we will lose the war entirely" and set priorities from there.
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Jun 3, 2018 22:59
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feedmegin posted:If I had to guess - I know they took a look at American (and British) tanks and were like 'these are pretty meh' by and large. Plus logistical concerns like ammo types. They took some but conversely a truck is a truck (and a train a train, a half track a half track, Lend-Lease sent a bunch of those too), America is good at all of those and the differences are less important anyway.
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Jun 3, 2018 23:00
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HEY GUNS posted:yeah our trucks back then were extremely good Good ol' Studebaker.   feedmegin posted:Eh? Noteable war fighting tool the tractor or did you mean artillery prime movers? You need trucks for motorised infantry, John Deere's finest not so much. People still have to eat, and mechanization vastly improves the efficiency of planting and harvesting crops.
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Jun 3, 2018 23:09
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SlothfulCobra posted:I didn't know that America still did localized army companies. I thought they all just got mixed up. It's a National Guard unit. They are drawn from a particular state or territory and carry a lot more regional flavor than regular army units.
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Jun 3, 2018 23:09
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Gnoman posted:I've always wondered how that came about. Did the Soviets deliberately decide "the Americans will sell us all the trucks we can use, we should focus on building other things", or was it a case of "We just don't have enough truck factories, could you send us some? Wait, you can give us how many?". Lend-lease was really a collaborative process - purchasing commissions from UK/Can/USSR would hang out in Washington and talk about what they needed and what was on offer. Don't forget lots of unsexy things like tinned food and boots and sheet metal came in on the convoys as well - that wasn't a matter of 'we've got it so we'll ship it', there were constant pretty intensive dialogues going on about where the weak links were in the war economy and how they could be shored up.
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Jun 3, 2018 23:18
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Alchenar posted:Lend-lease was really a collaborative process - purchasing commissions from UK/Can/USSR would hang out in Washington and talk about what they needed and what was on offer. Don't forget lots of unsexy things like tinned food and boots and sheet metal came in on the convoys as well - that wasn't a matter of 'we've got it so we'll ship it', there were constant pretty intensive dialogues going on about where the weak links were in the war economy and how they could be shored up.
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Jun 3, 2018 23:22
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HEY GUNS posted:there's several scenes in kolyma tales where some lendlease supply ends up hitting the prison camps--in one they have no idea what spam is so they end up boiling it Honestly boiling Spam is just as good a preparation method as most others. I mean I personally wouldn't do it but then again I'm not an inmate of a Soviet prison camp. EDIT: I just realized that the brewpub in my neighborhood in Manchester used to serve gourmet beef stew with honest-to-god fried Spam fritters.  English cuisine
Vincent Van Goatse fucked around with this message at 23:28 on Jun 3, 2018 |
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Jun 3, 2018 23:26
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