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Beeswax posted:Hey check this out: Rnr had made some bad posts but he's not some sort of irredeemable trash person based on those posts, and people tripping over themselves to win the hyperbole dunk-race are actively making the thread a worse place. The few posts that he makes that are not troll posts or just outright unintelligible just display his awful racist views. He might not be an irredeemable trash person, but he's definitely an irredeemable trash poster. Oh, and the thread was always bad, it's gotten closed like three times already.
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Jun 2, 2018 10:44
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V. Illych L. posted:the post i quoted is at best disingenuous and at worst incoherent, claiming that any position on the circumcision ban arises from whether one hates jews more than one loves muslims Fair enough, it was originally an answer to split soul's post, which I failed to quote. It was just meant as a satire on the positions in both left and right, that for equally bad reasons will vote against protecting children from being mutilated for religious reasons. There are people in both left and right that will vote for the proposal and good on them. Contrary to what Split Soul thinks, I very much feel it is a worthy cause (even while other bad things are happening) and it's depressing that it won't pass into law...
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Jun 2, 2018 10:45
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Thread always been bad. But I don’t think I’ve seen a Dane roll around in his own filth before. Usually it is Eastern Europeans trying to dunk on Sweden iirc.
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Jun 2, 2018 11:12
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Beeswax posted:Hey check this out: Rnr had made some bad posts but he's not some sort of irredeemable trash person based on those posts, and people tripping over themselves to win the hyperbole dunk-race are actively making the thread a worse place. Generally a good post for all threads.
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Jun 2, 2018 11:14
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In other topics: https://www.aftonbladet.se/nyheter/samhalle/a/Eo9AKl/ingen-krisstamning-i-s--ar-nyhetstorka-i-media
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Jun 2, 2018 11:29
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MiddleOne posted:In other topics: Hahaha. From what I've seen on Facebook half of the actual party members sound like they just want to give up now.
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Jun 2, 2018 12:03
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MiddleOne posted:In other topics:
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Jun 2, 2018 15:29
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Beeswax posted:Hey check this out: Rnr had made some bad posts but he's not some sort of irredeemable trash person based on those posts, and people tripping over themselves to win the hyperbole dunk-race are actively making the thread a worse place. You're not the one being accused of hating Jews and children, though, probably because you seem mostly concerned with giving poo poo like that a platform. God knows the entire media is hardly sufficient to that end. Notice I didn't actually state an opinion other than Rnr being a useful idiot for the government, although his actual use value is debatable.
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Jun 2, 2018 16:27
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SplitSoul posted:you seem mostly concerned with giving poo poo like that a platform. Here we go
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Jun 2, 2018 19:57
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Rnr posted:I don't think that is either correct or fair. The adhominems start from your side, if you could pause the raging for two seconds and have a look. If we could get past the name calling and knee jerk reactions I'd be grateful, I'm certainly willing to do my part. I'd honestly prefer if people from both sides of the political spectrum could talk about current political affairs, with liberal use of banter and mockery, but with a lot less demonization and misrepresentation (again I'm not innocent, but I honestly feel compelled to self defense). Buddy, you have literally not bothered to even acknowledge a single counterpoint addressed to you ITT, and now you try to pull this poo poo?
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Jun 2, 2018 20:53
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S will bounce back, even if it takes 4 years of right-government again for people to remember why S should matter more.
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Jun 2, 2018 23:07
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Cerebral Bore posted:Buddy, you have literally not bothered to even acknowledge a single counterpoint addressed to you ITT, and now you try to pull this poo poo? Sorry if I missed them, there was a lot of vitriol to sort through, which seemed pointless and would only have poo poo up the thread more if replied to.
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Jun 3, 2018 02:52
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BigglesSWE posted:S will bounce back, even if it takes 4 years of right-government again for people to remember why S should matter more. There's absolutely no guarantee for that in the current political landscape.
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Jun 3, 2018 10:05
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BigglesSWE posted:S will bounce back, even if it takes 4 years of right-government again for people to remember why S should matter more. In your dreams, social democratic parties all over Europe are losing influence especially as their core voters are die of old age every year.
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Jun 3, 2018 10:37
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S can get back on track if they finally get a clue and throw out the party establishment failsons from all positions of power in the party and replace them with actual leftists instead. But gråsossar gonna gråsosse, so they'll probably just look in the mirror and be all "we gotta get more racist".
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Jun 3, 2018 10:43
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Cerebral Bore posted:S can get back on track if they finally get a clue and throw out the party establishment failsons from all positions of power in the party and replace them with actual leftists instead. Corbyn turning Labour around required the tri-fecta of: a: The Blairites nominating him as a joke b: His predecessor revising the leadership rules c: Momentum forming and mobilizing to support him at an unprecedented pace With that considered, I think S are completely screwed. In Labour the Blairities have had to be dragged kicking and screaming towards change, trying to sabotage it every step of the way, and that's despite Corbyn sailing on electoral successes. The party establishment is either going to have to change on their own, step down voluntarily (fat chance) or they're taking the ship down with them. Persson's toxic legacy still hovers over S and guides everything the current top is doing. MiddleOne fucked around with this message at 11:18 on Jun 3, 2018 |
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Jun 3, 2018 11:14
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Even now droves of Corbyns own party, and the media, liberal and conservative alike, are trying to bring him down. It's a shame, because it means Labour will be too busy fending off ridiculous rumors too talk about the manifesto that made them popular in the first place. If it costs Corbyn the next election that will be a real blow to the UK, but on the bright side I guess Corbyns supporters will be that much closer to giving up on democracy under capitalism. God knows I have.
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Jun 3, 2018 11:45
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MiddleOne posted:There's absolutely no guarantee for that in the current political landscape. Wait for SCB's poll next week and we'll talk. All of the panels used by the major newspapers are based on readers and thus lean heavily right wing. They always underestimate S and overestimate SD, especially aftonbladet/inizio. Corbyns success should tell S in Sweden everything they need to know to win big. It's not about liberal immigration. It's about welfare, renationalizing elements of the old public sector and stuff like that. People are talking as if S voters are in any way opposed to the migration reforms or their justifications. What they dislike, and the cause of the partys actual problems, is that immigration reform is percieved (and rightly so) as having supplanted welfare reform this election. It's about timing and execution, not content. In light of stuff like the scandal about Nya Karolinska, S voters wanna see more attention to healthcare. They don't want open borders or any of that horseshit, but they dont wanna watch the party chase SD at the expense of everything else. As soon as S gets back on track with the usual structural reform topics, likely very soon, they will recover quite quickly. Postorder Trollet89 fucked around with this message at 11:58 on Jun 3, 2018 |
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Jun 3, 2018 11:49
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old school social democracy is legitimately very popular, but it's ideologically unsupportable through contemporary technocratic ideology, which places a lot of stock in marketisation, competition and sees the role of government as essentially providing a framework for the real actors (business, civil society) to prosper rather than act for themselves. add to this the increasing mobility of capital over labour drastically shifting the balance of power upon which social democracy depends, and you have the current predicament. the way out might be corbynite state capitalism, but it's easy to go wrong there, too this view of the state being heavily pushed by the EU doesn't help, of course
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Jun 3, 2018 12:04
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V. Illych L. posted:old school social democracy is legitimately very popular, but it's ideologically unsupportable through contemporary technocratic ideology, which places a lot of stock in marketisation, competition and sees the role of government as essentially providing a framework for the real actors (business, civil society) to prosper rather than act for themselves. add to this the increasing mobility of capital over labour drastically shifting the balance of power upon which social democracy depends, and you have the current predicament. the way out might be corbynite state capitalism, but it's easy to go wrong there, too State capitalism was what saved China from going down the way of the USSR, (along with about a thousand other factors like ethnic and historical divisions etc.). There is no reason to assume that democratic state capitalism won't work for social democracy (It is kinda what sweden had for quite a while), especially if it is shown to rapidly improve everyday life. Neoliberalism as we know it is on its way out thats for sure, wether it gets replaced by Corbyn or Orban is still up in the air.
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Jun 3, 2018 12:08
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Postorder Trollet89 posted:People are talking as if S voters are in any way opposed to the migration reforms or their justifications. What they dislike, and the cause of the partys actual problems, is that immigration reform is percieved (and rightly so) as having supplanted welfare reform this election. It's about timing and execution, not content. Yeah and who's fault is that again? S have spent this entire term saving like crazy in the state budget, lobbying local governments to save like crazy through SKL and as a nail in coffin they've been following IF Metall in lobbying to press down wages in union negotiations. Simultaneously, their finance minister is out lobbying to the public that this all the immigrants fault, when in reality this is a conscious choice that the government made. Voters voted for a S government and just got 4 more years of what preceded it. If we're talking equality then they've basically wasted the term, doing nothing but making the rich richer, the poor poorer and lot of young Afghans dead. Postorder Trollet89 posted:As soon as S gets back on track with the usual structural reform topics, likely very soon, they will recover quite quickly. What track? Who's track? Persson? Palme? Per Albin Hansson? Emund the Old? MiddleOne fucked around with this message at 12:19 on Jun 3, 2018 |
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Jun 3, 2018 12:10
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Biomute posted:Even now droves of Corbyns own party, and the media, liberal and conservative alike, are trying to bring him down. It's a shame, because it means Labour will be too busy fending off ridiculous rumors too talk about the manifesto that made them popular in the first place. If it costs Corbyn the next election that will be a real blow to the UK, but on the bright side I guess Corbyns supporters will be that much closer to giving up on democracy under capitalism. God knows I have.
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Jun 3, 2018 12:12
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Postorder Trollet89 posted:Wait for SCB's poll next week and we'll talk. All of the panels used by the major newspapers are based on readers and thus lean heavily right wing. They always underestimate S and overestimate SD, especially aftonbladet/inizio. I'm sure that SCB next week will be quite interesting (just by the virtue of being the least lazy poll) but on the other hand: 
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Jun 3, 2018 12:23
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A pile of poo poo is still made up of poo poo. Those are literally the top 3 worst polls in the country aside from the ones run by SD's media wing. That said I'm sure there will be a slight drop, but not far below 28%. I'm not pretending S has done well, having MP as a partner has played it's part. But a skyhigh average household debt that people can scarcely afford to pay is a massive problem, especially since it strangles your ability to reform via taxes. Not only that it relies on crap like interest deductions and flexible payment plans. It is gunpowder to the economy and could damage the economy if mismanaged and cooled off too quickly. Postorder Trollet89 fucked around with this message at 12:30 on Jun 3, 2018 |
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Jun 3, 2018 12:26
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A Buttery Pastry posted:McDonnell is gonna rise up after the fall of Corbyn and institute Stalinism across the British Isles. Good.
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Jun 3, 2018 12:28
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Biomute posted:Even now droves of Corbyns own party, and the media, liberal and conservative alike, are trying to bring him down. It's a shame, because it means Labour will be too busy fending off ridiculous rumors too talk about the manifesto that made them popular in the first place. If it costs Corbyn the next election that will be a real blow to the UK, but on the bright side I guess Corbyns supporters will be that much closer to giving up on democracy under capitalism. God knows I have.
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Jun 3, 2018 12:44
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evil_bunnY posted:Corbyn made a bunch of unforced mistakes early on re:brexit and lost a whole bunch of goodwill from the L base + really smart people who weren’t committed to blairism to begin with. All my lefty UK friends are SO angry with him over the brexit fallout. Nah, I don't buy that. His stance on Brexit has been pretty vague and the media has portrayed that as him being wishy-washy on it, but that's fine. It's poop, and there's no point in touching it unless he has to. Labour is in opposition, and seeing as the vote went the way it did they can't really do much except criticize until the ball is in their court. I'm sure some voters would like to see him come out with a firm stance on it, but doing so before they're in power would be stupid as they would stand to lose maybe half their voter base either way they go. The animosity coming from within the party are all neoliberals worried about his socialism, or hawks of various stripes with specific foreign policy agendas (pro-israel, anti-iran etc). thotsky fucked around with this message at 13:15 on Jun 3, 2018 |
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Jun 3, 2018 13:04
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Biomute posted:Nah, I don't buy that. His stance on Brexit has been pretty vague and the media has portrayed that as him being wishy-washy on it, but that's fine. It's poop, and there's no point in touching it unless he has to. Labour is in opposition, and seeing as the vote went the way it did they can't really do much except criticize until the ball is in their court. Coming out with a firm stance on it before they're in power would be stupid as they could stand to lose half their voter base either way they go. Biomute posted:Good. A Buttery Pastry fucked around with this message at 13:19 on Jun 3, 2018 |
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Jun 3, 2018 13:17
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A Buttery Pastry posted:Brexit has apparently also become more popular since the referendum, What, seriously? They're doubling down on being a laughing stock?
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Jun 3, 2018 13:28
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THE BAR posted:What, seriously? They're doubling down on being a laughing stock?
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Jun 3, 2018 13:35
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That, and Britain has a long history of exceptionalism to begin with. The papers, even the liberal ones, have been pushing a "us-vs-them" narrative ever since the vote. I think a lot of Brits are secretly pretty happy to have a lovely Brexit outcome as long as they get to see themselves as standing up to a foreign power.
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Jun 3, 2018 14:26
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Postorder Trollet89 posted:Wait for SCB's poll next week and we'll talk. All of the panels used by the major newspapers are based on readers and thus lean heavily right wing. They always underestimate S and overestimate SD, especially aftonbladet/inizio. Haha SCB? The guys that said that SD would get 8-9 % in 2014? Sure they are the reliable! Pretty much all polls before last election constantly underestimated SD and I doubt it will be much difference this time.
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Jun 3, 2018 14:27
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Biomute posted:That, and Britain has a long history of exceptionalism to begin with. The papers, even the liberal ones, have been pushing a "us-vs-them" narrative ever since the vote. I think a lot of Brits are secretly pretty happy to have a lovely Brexit outcome as long as they get to see themselves as standing up to a foreign power. https://twitter.com/PickardJE/status/1003030912454492160 Summary: The scenario not dubbed Armageddon still has stores in Cornwall and Scotland run out of food within a couple of days of Brexit Day, hospitals in general running out of medicines within two weeks - which is about the time that fuel shortages would start to hit too. Obviously this assumes no agreement with the EU and Britain just crashing out, so it's only 90% certain. A Buttery Pastry fucked around with this message at 18:14 on Jun 3, 2018 |
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Jun 3, 2018 16:47
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So, SCB is in: Red&Greens: 40.0% S - 28.3 V - 7.4 MP - 4.3 Alliansen: 35.7% (KD at 2.9 so bye bye to them, not included in that number) M - 22.6 C - 8.7 L - 4.4 KD - 2.9 SD at 18.5 An interesting thing to note that the bulk of S's losses were due to people moving to undecided (2.2%) as opposed to other parties, 0.4% had gone to SD with slightly more to V and MP. That right there is a good sign and shows that they are most likely waiting for the real policy proposals like welfare reform etc. It is very likely that KD is gone this election (thank gently caress for that). I don't think they've ever been this far below the line in such an important poll this close to an election. Hopefully they won't get that many tactical votes now that Alliansen is actually kind of low, they cant afford to risk tossing votes at a party too far below 4%. Not that many surprises all in all, MP safely above the line is not entirely unexpected. Postorder Trollet89 fucked around with this message at 11:17 on Jun 5, 2018 |
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Jun 5, 2018 10:28
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I'm probably gonna hate this election (being a V voter) but I'll have a laugh if SD light (KD) gets thrown out. I'm actually pretty interested to see what happens: how will the public discourse handle the expulsion of a party that's been around since 1991?
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Jun 5, 2018 10:42
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BigglesSWE posted:I'm probably gonna hate this election (being a V voter) but I'll have a laugh if SD light (KD) gets thrown out. The televised debates wont miss them that's fur sure. Maybe Bert Karlsson will shed a tear, one can dream. I hope they will get about as much mainstream attention as F! once they're finally gone though. That said expect tactical votes to the tune of like 1-1.5% maybe. It's unlikely to be enough this time that's for sure. Postorder Trollet89 fucked around with this message at 11:26 on Jun 5, 2018 |
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Jun 5, 2018 11:19
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Due to racism, the Social Democrats and Mette "Human rights protect the wrong people" Frederiksen have decided to attempt a one-party minority government next election.
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Jun 5, 2018 11:44
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SplitSoul posted:Due to racism, the Social Democrats and Mette "Human rights protect the wrong people" Frederiksen have decided to attempt a one-party minority government next election. With a strong working relationship with DF 
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Jun 5, 2018 12:03
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KozmoNaut posted:With a strong working relationship with DF Sass is going to be Minister of Justice or Integration, count on it. And remember that his view on how to tackle both is this.
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Jun 5, 2018 12:57
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BigglesSWE posted:I'm actually pretty interested to see what happens: how will the public discourse handle the expulsion of a party that's been around since 1991? The media has been handling KD like they're already out for the last 6 months, I don't think much will change.
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Jun 6, 2018 06:46
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