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Drowning Rabbit
Oct 28, 2003

YAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY!

MonsterEnvy posted:

Ok we got the cover for the adventure after Dragon Heist.



From levels 6 to 20.

Edit for Comparison the Dragon Heist cover. (It being levels 1 to 5.)



It appears the Thanos looking dude is Manshoon. (Or to be even more exact a clone.) It appears the other villains the DM can have the party face off against in Dragon Heist from the cover are Xanathar the Beholder, Jarlaxle the head of a Drow Mercenary company, and the Cassalanters some influential Waterdeep nobles.

Am I completely missing the joke here? Did they ever say that Dragon Heist is legitimately 1-5? Have they ever done an adventure that narrow for 5e outside of the starter Mines of Phandelver? I thought this would go to at least 10.

E: Derp: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wbVRQIOuI8s

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Firstborn
Oct 14, 2012

i'm the heckin best
yeah
yeah
yeah
frig all the rest
Yep, 1-5. I saw Matt Mercer has some story credits on it. The way it sounds, the book is probably as big as other campaign books, but probably a lot of optional/side content like we saw in chapter 4? or whatever of SKT where 50% of the book is optional scenarios that double as a setting and you only use one per run.

Good thing is it seems like a smaller story in stakes and scope and I like "street level" tier1 d&d.

e: if anything im hoping for a real cool urban setting with nice details considering how much better the module books are becoming as far as presentation and the way the info is organized

Firstborn fucked around with this message at 05:53 on Jun 3, 2018

MonsterEnvy
Feb 4, 2012

Shocked I tell you

Drowning Rabbit posted:

Am I completely missing the joke here? Did they ever say that Dragon Heist is legitimately 1-5? Have they ever done an adventure that narrow for 5e outside of the starter Mines of Phandelver? I thought this would go to at least 10.

E: Derp: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wbVRQIOuI8s

Also the product page has a big 1 to 5 on it http://dnd.wizards.com/products/tabletop-games/rpg-products/dragonheist

MonsterEnvy fucked around with this message at 06:15 on Jun 3, 2018

Drowning Rabbit
Oct 28, 2003

YAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY!

Ah, didn't see that one. I didn't know if you were serious, as you didn't reply to the last time I asked where you were seeing the level stuff :v:

Apparently we're looking at a September release for Dragon Heist, and November ( 20th ) for the Undermountain book ( http://www.enworld.org/forum/content.php?5296-Second-Dungeons-Dragons-Product-for-2018-Waterdeep-Dungeon-of-the-Mad-Mage )

Josef bugman
Nov 17, 2011

Pictured: Poster prepares to celebrate Holy Communion (probablY)

This avatar made possible by a gift from the Religionthread Posters Relief Fund

Splicer posted:

Oh I see you pulled 2 out of wis. Missed that, thought you were using standard array.

Are you planning to take a +1 cha feat at any stage? If not, might be more useful to start off with 18 cha (14 +2 +2). Then you can pump your wis to 12 (optimal option) or pump your str to 13 (not a real power move, but you seem to be interested in being a bit buffer than the average bear). On the other hand, there are some nice +cha tiefling racials in Xanathars (though if you start with 18 you can take two of them!)

I was tempted to take either menacing or diplomat, dependent on how I feel my character is going during play.

I got Searing Smite at level 3 and will be getting Branding Smite at 5, which seem like good options for me.

I'm looking forward to playing this guy for the first time today. Thanks for all the advice on builds! It is really appreciated!

Glagha posted:

As a D&D player how do I convince my friends that loving kobolds and thinking they're cute lil fuckos and the absolute best is objectively correct so they stop making fun of me. My kobold love is not perverse kobolust.

If it makes you feel any better one of my fellow players decided to play Tabaxi and we gave them a bit of stick about being a furry. Then they decided to roll for how attractive they found other party members and ended up finding the fish person and the bird person the most attractive.

We have not really stopped laughing since.

If it is any comfort I agree that Kobolds are cool. I would like to see a game entirely set around kobolds attaining dragonhood though.

Josef bugman fucked around with this message at 08:27 on Jun 3, 2018

Bad Seafood
Dec 10, 2010


If you must blink, do it now.
As someone with only the loosest interest in Forgotten Realms, Dragon Heist may be the first proper 5e module I buy (not including the Yawning Portal, which is just a collection of old adventures). Probably not right away, but if it ever goes on sale.

I keep finding myself in positions where I'm the guy who has to introduce my friends to D&D, and a low-level urban intrigue campaign sounds like a nice change of pace from the usual road trip shenanigans (though I like those too). And if it includes tips and tricks for running urban adventures of your own, so much the better.

gradenko_2000
Oct 5, 2010

HELL SERPENT
Lipstick Apathy
setting an adventure called Dragon Heist to within the first 5 levels of the game makes perfect sense lest they don't need to heist the dragon and just kill the drat thing

Not to mention heists being significantly more difficult to make challenging past that level range

space kobold
Oct 3, 2009


Josef bugman posted:

If it is any comfort I agree that Kobolds are cool. I would like to see a game entirely set around kobolds attaining dragonhood though.

Just finished the 25th session of a game that's just that, entitled the Brave and the 'Bold. :iia:

Glagha posted:

As a D&D player how do I convince my friends that loving kobolds and thinking they're cute lil fuckos and the absolute best is objectively correct so they stop making fun of me. My kobold love is not perverse kobolust.

You could just make your entirely online identity kobold-centric and make them quietly nod and accept your weird delusions while fearing of just how far the obsession goes. Wait, that doesn't actually help.

Josef bugman
Nov 17, 2011

Pictured: Poster prepares to celebrate Holy Communion (probablY)

This avatar made possible by a gift from the Religionthread Posters Relief Fund

space kobold posted:

Just finished the 25th session of a game that's just that, entitled the Brave and the 'Bold. :iia:

Noice.

Also, as a quick question (and I know DnD is rather infamous for neglecting this) but can I cast hypnotic pattern out of combat to effectively have a "polite chat" with people?

Splicer
Oct 16, 2006

from hell's heart I cast at thee
🧙🐀🧹🌙🪄🐸

Josef bugman posted:

Noice.

Also, as a quick question (and I know DnD is rather infamous for neglecting this) but can I cast hypnotic pattern out of combat to effectively have a "polite chat" with people?
As per every edition, you can perform any action out of combat the same as you can in combat, assuming all the prerequisites for performing the action are available.

Glagha
Oct 13, 2008

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
AAAAAAaaAAAaaAAaAA
AAAAAAAaAAAAAaaAAA
AAAA
AaAAaaA
AAaaAAAAaaaAAAAAAA
AaaAaaAAAaaaaaAA

Josef bugman posted:

If it is any comfort I agree that Kobolds are cool. I would like to see a game entirely set around kobolds attaining dragonhood though.

I haven't gotten around to doing it but I have wanted to play a kobold sorcerer or some such thing for a little kobold who decides he is a miniature dragon and he's gonna prove it.

Darwinism
Jan 6, 2008


So basically Deekin

edit: Not a criticism, everyone should love Deekin

Glagha
Oct 13, 2008

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
AAAAAAaaAAAaaAAaAA
AAAAAAAaAAAAAaaAAA
AAAA
AaAAaaA
AAaaAAAAaaaAAAAAAA
AaaAaaAAAaaaaaAA

Deekin was the best. The fact that (spoiler for old rear end Neverwinter Nights expansions but whatever) he's the only one who can't betray you to Mephistopheles cements him as the best character ever.

MonsterEnvy
Feb 4, 2012

Shocked I tell you
Here is the Product details on Undermountain. http://dnd.wizards.com/products/tabletop-games/rpg-products/waterdeep-dungeon-mad-mage

I forgot how big Undermountain is

quote:

Twenty-three levels of Undermountain are detailed herein, along with the subterranean refuge of Skullport


I don't know how much Undermountains Layout will change. (Which it canonically does.) But I wonder if any of the maps will be as big as Undermountains first level.

MonsterEnvy fucked around with this message at 20:32 on Jun 3, 2018

Sion
Oct 16, 2004

"I'm the boss of space. That's plenty."

holy gently caress I hate everything about this

MonsterEnvy
Feb 4, 2012

Shocked I tell you

Sion posted:

holy gently caress I hate everything about this

That is the original Undermountain 1st level map from 2e updated to 4e.

From checking the video interview about the book. The levels provided are not going to be that big. Instead many of them are going to have passageways that lead offmap so the DM can decide on a case by case basis if they want to expand the levels and put in their own content. However the levels on their own are going to be quite dense and detailed even if you don't expand them. And they are all going to be quite different.

According to Kate Welch cause of how dense and full of stuff it is, she expects it will take at least 8 months to get through the entire adventure if you play on a weekly basis.

MonsterEnvy fucked around with this message at 20:45 on Jun 3, 2018

Firstborn
Oct 14, 2012

i'm the heckin best
yeah
yeah
yeah
frig all the rest

Sion posted:

holy gently caress I hate everything about this

It was a campaign that revolved around a singular megadungeon. It worked only because that first level might be all your explore in an entire campaign. If I remember right, only like the third level was ever mapped, and they only put encounters within a few hundred feet of each of the access points. It's not a bad adventure at all, it's actually pretty awesome.



And to whoever made the joke about heisting dragons, I'm not sure if you are serious, but I'll take the bait. A "dragon" is also D&D language for a gold coin.

MonsterEnvy
Feb 4, 2012

Shocked I tell you

Firstborn posted:

It was a campaign that revolved around a singular megadungeon. It worked only because that first level might be all your explore in an entire campaign. If I remember right, only like the third level was ever mapped, and they only put encounters within a few hundred feet of each of the access points. It's not a bad adventure at all, it's actually pretty awesome.



And to whoever made the joke about heisting dragons, I'm not sure if you are serious, but I'll take the bait. A "dragon" is also D&D language for a gold coin.

I think it's even Waterdeep's word for a gold coin.

Firstborn
Oct 14, 2012

i'm the heckin best
yeah
yeah
yeah
frig all the rest
Yeah, that's what I meant.

FRINGE
May 23, 2003
title stolen for lf posting

Firstborn posted:

It was a campaign that revolved around a singular megadungeon. It worked only because that first level might be all your explore in an entire campaign. If I remember right, only like the third level was ever mapped, and they only put encounters within a few hundred feet of each of the access points. It's not a bad adventure at all, it's actually pretty awesome.
There was a 3e or 4e book that did some downwards-cross-sections that gave ideas for deeper stuff, and more info on Halaster and his also-crazy "apprentices" (who were super powerful mages), and some of the little pockets that kind of became their own ecosystem. There was also information scattered across some modules, Skullport, and some other things.

For anyone that doesnt know about it, Undermountain was the vanity project of Halaster the Mad (who was sometimes lucid, etc). He crafted the thing, and would move entire sections around, "restock" it, and generally kept it dangerous and sometimes weird. At least one (and possibly more than one, if you are generous with the idea of "still around") of his "apprentices" is still around (and thats its own pile of lore/intrigue).

Undermountain had various criminal groups, cults, and portals, and had a passage/portal to Skullport. Besides being a megadungeon, it was also a prime setting for intrigue and conspiracy games. On top of that, it was full of enough portals to become an entry point for a Planescape game (or an exit point from a Planscape game).



Text walls dungeons ahead.

Nerd stuff:

quote:

Undermountain was a dungeon which began as a mine and dwelling of dwarves belonging to the Melairkyn clan. In the centuries after the dwarves were driven out, it became the home of drow, duergar, powerful wizards, criminal groups, and convicted felons.

quote:

area. The ancient dungeon itself started as a mine and dwelling of dwarves belonging to the Melairkyn clan that formed an alliance with the elves of Illefarn. In the centuries after the dwarves were driven out, it became the home of drow, duergar, powerful wizards, criminal groups, and convicted felons.

The most famous of those to control the halls of Undermountain was Halaster Blackcloak, the Mad Mage. He and his apprentices explored the ruins and laid claim to many areas. Over the next thousand years they populated these areas with various monsters, magical experiments, numerous portals and traps. Around 1306 DR the City of Waterdeep started exiling convicted felons to the depths of Undermountain.

Various criminal groups used portions of the ruins[as of when?] as their headquarters as do followers of evil gods. Halaster's death in 1375 DR and the earthquake that accompanied it altered terrain and also upset the balance of power among the various groups. It was around ten years later when the Spellplague occurred and once again drastic change came to Undermountain. Many of the numerous portals in the ruins were destroyed, cutting off entire levels. Other portals were warped and seemingly granted access to previously unknown levels. Also it was feared that pockets of Spellplague may still exist in Undermountain.

quote:

While Halaster quested on other planes and sequestered himself in his tunnels, his tower fell into ruin. When Halaster was yet active in the outside world, his home was considered cursed, so settlers in the area largely left the crumbling tower alone. In time, the city now known as Waterdeep came to huddle against the mountain and reach down to the harbor. As the city sprawled outward, it reached and encompassed the ruins of Halaster's home. Undermountain was known to these early settlers, and they often punished criminals by sending them into its depths. This continued for many years until an adventurer named Durnan delved into the depths beneath the tower and returned, laden with riches, to tell the tale. Durnan demolished the last remnants of Halaster's above-ground abode and built an inn over the well he had used to descend into the depths. He called his inn the Yawning Portal, and Durnan works there to this day, serving patrons and inviting the brave or the foolish to try their hands at the halls of Undermountain.

quote:

Entrances and exits

The halls of Undermountain were linked to the surface world in many ways, both physical and magical. Halaster used his network of portals to bring in monsters from all across Faerûn to restock his dungeon. He also used portals to draw adventurers into the deeper regions, rarely explored, and to give the occasional lucky adventurer an unexpected escape. Some of the notable physical links are described below.[citation needed]

Blue Mermaid Passage: This connected a dry well in the cellar of the Blue Mermaid tavern to Skullport.

Castle Corkscrew: This passage corkscrewed down from the cellars of Castle Waterdeep to Skullport, bypassing the first two levels.

Falling Stair: This connected the dungeons of Castle Waterdeep and the Citadel of the Bloody Hand with Undermountain's first level.

Knight n'Shadow: Built over the ruins of the Sea Knight Tavern which collapsed in 1425 DR, the cellar of this tavern connected to Downshadow.

Long Dark Stair: This linked the oubliette of the Blushing Nymph festhall with Undermountain's first level.

South Seacaves: This linked the Sea of Swords on the western flank of Mount Waterdeep with the River Sargauth by means of a set of hoists.

The Yawning Portal Inn: Built atop the ruins of Halaster's Hold, The Yawning Portal Inn contained the primary entrance into Undermountain: a large well that dropped down into Undermountain's Dungeon Level. Secondary entrances were found in the inn as well, including a link to the inn's less well known "wee" well and a passage leading out of the Yawning Portal's cellar.

You got the idea of how big part of "the dungeon level" (the part used by Waterdeep to dump criminals in), but Undermountain is pretty complicated. I always wanted to run it across an entire campaign but never got around to it.



quote:

Major Levels

The Dungeon Level:

The Dungeon Level was long used by the Lords of Waterdeep as a dumping ground for undesirables, hence its most common name. It was also known as the Temple Level, for the many temples of dark gods that were constructed here over the years, and the Tomb Level, for the many lords and kings that were interred here as well. As explorers of Undermountain often visited this level, its features were common tavern-talk of Waterdeep. Notable features of the Dungeon Level included the Bone Throne, the Cavern of Eyes, the Falling Stair, the Grim Statue, the Hall of Sleeping Kings, the Hall of Three Lords, the House of Pain, the Lanceboard Room, the Sundered Throne, the Temple of Gulkulath, and the Temple of the All-Seeing One.

The Storeroom Level:

On this level, Halaster and his apprentices excavated the rough stone caverns and mining tunnels left by the dwarves to house their acquisitions and magical experiments. Notable features of the Storeroom Level included the Doomgate, the Hemwatch and Lord Hund Hillgauntlet's Tomb

The Sargauth Level:

Known for the River Sargauth, which winds through this massive level, Undermountain's third level consisted of two major sections. The southern third of the level consisted of the remnants of the Sargauth Enclave, which was later split by a massive cave-in leading to Skullport and the Promenade of the Dark Maiden. The northern two-thirds of this level were constructed by Halaster and his apprentices, and served much the same role as Undermountain's second level. The most notable features of this level were the Lair of the Eye and the rubble-filled Pit of Ghaunadaur, a mile-deep shaft that led from the Prime Material Plane into the Cauldron of Slime through an intermittently existent planar breach

The Farms Level:

The fourth level of Undermountain contained farms no surface dweller would recognize. Halaster's mightiest magic brought the River of the Depths, also known as the River Sargauth, to this level, where it linked huge caverns in broad, sweeping curves, and was navigable by barges. In these caverns, slaves and servants of the drow, aboleth, and other races of the Realms Below, produced slimes and algae for food. Halaster controlled his own farms here, too, and their produce was teleported to "feed-bin" rooms throughout the dungeon (rooms known to resident monsters as "watering-holes"). Undermountain's privies were also rinsed by magically pumped or redirected water into miniature portals that brought their contents to the farms. The dung-heaps produced by this process were inhabited by advanced otyughs and gulguthydras, among other foul scavengers. All of these farms were quite valuable, as there were few large sources of good food underground; thus, all are heavily guarded. The drow and Halaster both used fearsome monsters as guardians, including death tyrants, advanced nagas with sorcerer abilities, dragon turtle sorcerers, and even wilder creatures. A large, eerily dark lake at one end of the level supported a kuo-toa "fish factory" of the blind white fish of the depths, an important industry, which was heavily guarded to prevent food-raids from other creatures of the Underdark with the aid of an advanced kuo-toa leviathan. An island in the middle of the lake was home to an advanced otyugh, piled deep in dung, offal, carrion, and other refuse that found its way down long, twisting garbage-shafts from Skullport

The Maze Level:

This level contained five major features of note - the drow outpost of Kyorlamshin, the Lair of the Umber Hulks, the Maze of Madness, an old dwarf hold built by Clan Melairkyn and expanded by the duergar, and the winding channels of the River Graymurk. Kyorlamshin was linked by a series of portals to the city of Karsoluthiyl, which lay deep beneath the ocean floor west of Baldur's Gate. The drow of House Tanor'Thal dominated both settlements and the slave trade that linked them. The Maze of Madness was the creation of Halaster, stocked with ravenous minotaurs and magic traps to confuse and trip up the unwary.

The Seadeeps:

This level once housed two major mining operations of Clan Melairkyn. Nigh-endless mining tunnels stretched westward, following two depleted veins of mithral beneath the ocean floor. Only numerous dwarf-built locks and pumps prevented the ocean waters from seeping down and wholly flooding the level. The Seadeeps had numerous connections to the Swordsea Depths, as the Underdark beneath the Sea of Swords is known. At the present time, the Swordsea Depths were host to a long-running three-sided battle between an alliance of svirfneblin and tomb tappers, drow troops from Karsoluthiyl, and certain aboleth and their evil servant creatures. The Savants of the Dark Tide were refugees from this conflict.

The Caverns of Ooze:

Largely avoided by the dwarves of Clan Melairkyn in their day, the Caverns of Ooze were long home to all manner of slimy creatures serving That Which Lurks. Countless slimes, oozes, jellies, and other amorphous creatures frequented these natural caverns. For centuries, a colony of ghaunadans attempted to transform this level into a massive temple of Ghaunadaur, but Halaster continued to frustrate such efforts. Many suspected that the inhabitants of this region emanated from the bottom side of the planar breach that lay at the bottom of the Pit of Ghaunadaur and made their way down through a warren of narrow tubes, but such a connection was never proven.

The Terminus Level:

The Terminus Level was a mix of dwarf-built chambers, depleted mithral mines, and vast natural caverns. Many of the one-way portals used by Halaster to restock Undermountain with dangerous monsters opened into the sprawling caverns of Undermountain's eighth layer. Additionally, Halaster's failed or free experiments also wandered this level. The Terminus Level connected with the heart of Undermountain through the Shaft.

The Mad Wizard's Level:

Built by Clan Melairkyn as a trading outpost, Undermountain's ninth level was linked to the Underdark by a large number of sinkholes, each ringed by fortifications allowing a small number of defenders to hold off almost any invader. This level was one of the first to fall to the drow, who then quickly made their way up The Shaft into the heart of Undermountain. Said to hold the treasure of Halaster the Mad, this level was spoken about in Waterdhavian taverns late at night by those who dared to dream of plumbing the depths of Undermountain. Of course, Halaster himself spread many of these rumors, in hopes of inducing more adventurers to die foolish deaths in his trap-filled Underhalls. In reality, Undermountain's ultimate level was one big gauntlet of nasty traps and horrifying monsters. The waiting treasure was also the subject of much speculation. Some whispered that vaults full of hundreds of mighty magic items and countless gems lay hidden in the depths of Halaster's Lair, while others claimed that Halaster's greatest and cruelest joke was that the legendary hoard was no more than a pittance.



Sub-Levels

The Waterdeep Sewers: Typical of many large cities, Waterdeep had its share of sewer passages beneath its streets. What was not typical of these sewer tunnels however, were the links to the famed Halls of Undermountain which ensured a constant supply of creatures to inhabit them and an even more constant supply of adventurers to combat them. Many adventurers also used the sewers as an access point, bypassing the more notable entrances to the dungeon complex below.

The Citadel of the Bloody Hand: Dug into the heart of Mount Waterdeep, the Citadel of the Bloody Hand has until recently been occupied by the Guard. After Halaster's Higharvestide, the Citadel of the Bloody Hand became the preserve for the living spells that escaped Halaster.

Wyllowood: An apprentice of Halaster created the Wyllowwood over a century ago for his beloved, an elf druid named Wyllow. Set in a cavernous region carved by a tributary of the River Sargauth, this level was dominated by the Wyllowood, a thriving forest nourished by sunlight filtered through a massive portal in the "sky" above. Other notable features included a temple of the Destroyer and a long-abandoned lakeside village built by the dwarves of Clan Melairkyn.

Maddgoth's Level: Maddgoth's level was a small sub-level famed for the presence of Maddgoth's castle. Built by Halaster, this miniature, floating castle was enveloped in a reduction field that reduced all creatures within it to one-twelfth their normal size.

The Lost Level: Entombed in solid rock, the Lost Level was almost inaccessible, and its primary egress was said to be a portal guarded by the "Ring of Death," a waiting ring of death kiss beholderkin, death tyrant beholderkin, and the beholder lord Nagus. The Lost Level was divided into three sections - a temple of Dumathoin and crypt for Clan Melairkyn's rulers, a drow prison now dominated by Huntmistress Dhusarra, and a massive cavern carved by a branch of the River Sargauth and now split by an earthquake-caused tremor.

The Slitherswamp: Located deep beneath the city of Waterdeep, the Slitherswamp was a largely unexplored sub-level between the Farms Level and the Maze Level.

Muiral's Graveyard: Muiral's Graveyard was a sub-level built by the drow soon after their initial invasion that included living quarters and a warrior academy. Muiral transformed these chambers into a trap-filled gauntlet haunted by giant spiders, undead, and driders. Although the monstrous mage abandoned this area, his deadly creations remained.

The Troglodyte Warrens: This region of caves was accessible only by a two-way random portal. It was home to two warring tribes of troglodytes - the Urggroth-Kyan clan and the Szygmog-Thurgin clan.

Trobriand's Graveyard: The dwarves originally mined this sub-level for mithral, leaving it, by chance or for mysterious reasons, in the crude image of a scorpion. Before Halaster's Higharvestide, the Realm of the Metal Masters was home to Trobriand's rejected constructs, built before he had perfected his scaldars. By Halaster's Higharvestide, Trobriand's cast-offs had organized themselves into a self-governing community for mutual defense, and they took advantage of the chaos to escape through a portal to their master's secret sanctum and claim it for themselves. In the wake of their departure, this level was largely abandoned, but it didn't remain that way for long. After being driven from Skullport by the Eye, Misker the Pirate Tyrant fled to this level and made it his own. Now a portal linked the beholder's lair to the Ilzimmer Villa, and House Ilzimmer began storing its ill-gotten gains there.

The Obstacle Course: The Obstacle Course was a sub-level composed of a long chain of trap-filled rooms. Carved from the earth by the will of Tyr, this sub-level was intended as a potentially lethal test for conceited, cocky braggarts who did not respect the dangers of adventuring.

Arcturiadoom: This level was long the private domain of Arcturis, one of Halaster's most ambitious apprentices. After her death during Halaster's Higharvestide, contingency magics whisked her corpse to her sanctuary, leaving the illusion of a body in their wake. Thanks to careful preparations, Arcturia was reborn as a vile form of undead. She now[as of when?] worked to restock the monsters guarding this level, which was known to a handful of daring explorers as Arcturiadoom.

The Crystal Labyrinth: The drow constructed this chamber as a training ground for their young in 148 DR. Halaster discovered it in 326 DR and made it his own, with transparent crystal walls, floors and ceilings, and a coral-floored cavern filled with seawater directly below. At the heart of the labyrinth lay Halaster's Aqitocrun, a treasure chamber in which he stored prized possessions.

Vanrakdoom: This sub-level was claimed by Lord Vanrak Moonstar for the followers of the Night Maiden in 1130 DR. A sprawling shadow-cloaked temple of Shar and an army of creatures from the Plane of Shadow that defended the abbey dominate Vanrakdoom.

The Runestone Level: Not much was known about this small sub-level located between The Caverns of Ooze and The Terminus Level. It remained largely unexplored though rumors stated it was linked to The Shaft by multiple small, twisting passages.

Shadowdusk Hold: This sub-level was among the deepest known sub-levels of Undermountain. It may or may not have been connected to Halaster's Lair which lay just seaward of this sub-level.



You can use Undermountain for all kinds of messes the PCs have to deal with:

quote:

At dawn on Higharvestide of the Year of the Gauntlet, 1369 DR, two members of the Twisted Rune managed to kidnap Halaster Blackcloak from inside Undermountain. The lich Priamon "Frostrune" Rakesk and the alhoon Ralayan the Ocultacle used a ring of multiple wishes to bind and summon the Mad Mage to Stardock where they intended to probe the great archmages mind for his intricate knowledge of portals and magical gates. Before being captured Halaster sends out a sending to all practitioners of the Art within 400 miles, a clue that could lead would-be rescuers to where he is held

...

Because Halaster is the eye of the storm that is Undermountain, his kidnapping allowed the madness of the dungeon to escape. Gates began randomly transporting creatures from Undermountain to places throughout the Realms, causing havoc and destruction everywhere. Among the many victims: fire salamanders destroyed parts of Luskan, a gorgimera and manticores attacked Shadowdale, a legion of gargoyles laid siege to Suzail, and a juggernaut flattened the pirates' port of Skaug. But by far the greatest amount of mayhem spilled out into the city of Waterdeep

(Halaster is supposedly dead, but who cares. Hes a mythic figure almost-demigod, so do what you want.)

xiw
Sep 25, 2011

i wake up at night
night action madness nightmares
maybe i am scum

Cpig Haiku contest 2020 winner

Sion posted:

holy gently caress I hate everything about this

Yes the 2e Undermountain box was one of the most disappointing RPG-purchasing experiences I've ever had. Oh my god four poster-sized dungeon maps and the first three levels are described? Take my fifty 1993-NZ-dollars!

And then it turns out the stocked rooms are just occasional scattered random ones on the map that don't really tie into each other, and the maps themselves are half-hearted let's just draw random corridors on the big sheet of graph paper stuff. The encounters have no level coherence either, so there's no real way of using it as a sandbox directly in the 'you just explore' sense because there's nothing really a level 1 party can do. You pretty much have to write your own adventures and place them on the maps.

I could get more use out of it now but at the time it was sold as A Really Big Module With Huge Maps and really wasn't that.

Nehru the Damaja
May 20, 2005

Two problems I've seen come up with session zero and I'm curious if you folks have any insight or useful anecdotes.

1) Players lie to please the GM. They overstate their commitment to a kind of gameplay because they think it's what the GM wants or they overestimate how much they'll like something that doesn't match what they want out of a game. You end up with beer-and-dice players and dedicated roleplayers dragging a game in opposite directions because someone wasn't like "y'know, this might not be the right game for me." Leads me to my other problem.

2) Nobody's willing to let a session zero fail. Nobody wants to be the reason the session was "wasted." Nobody wants to be the reason a game doesn't start. Nobody wants to admit that players A, B and C are a good fit and maybe we should find someone else to replace D and E because that feels mean and exclusionary and political. But I feel like if a session zero can't fail, we're ultimately lying to ourselves about building a group with complementary expectations and styles.

Toshimo
Aug 23, 2012

He's outta line...

But he's right!
https://twitter.com/vauIttecs/status/1002676661484023809?s=20

Paladin
Nov 26, 2004
You lost today, kid. But that doesn't mean you have to like it.


Nehru the Damaja posted:

Tome of Foes mentions that servants of Mammon often keep a book on them called The Accounting and Valuation of All Things, which has among other things, pricing information for mortal souls.

Supposing it was written in Infernal and you gave some sort of limitation with the book like decaying/fading away so the players aren't just bothering you with it forever, what fun/interesting thing might you put in there? Like the obvious choice is an abnormally high or low value for a particular individual's soul, information that someone has already sold theirs, etc., but I'm curious if anyone has any specific or different ideas.

The character flips over to a page in common containing weird, highly personal and "bargain made with devils in a fairy tale" in there-- things like the first breeze of summer, the laughter of an old man-- but then have every page after become increasingly tailored to the player reading it-- "your family's disappointment", "mortal faith, shattered", "the sister you never knew you had", "one (1) beloved songbird, drowned"-- more and more bizarre and unsettling. The last thing offers something incredible/horrific, just as the book crumbles away to singed hair and rotting pieces of meat.

MonsterEnvy
Feb 4, 2012

Shocked I tell you

Yeah that was cool.

kingcom
Jun 23, 2012


Yep this is definitely a strong reminder why I never could get into RPGs until university.

I really hope this adventure path gives me a way to bypass the dungeon crawl, I genuinely have no interest in running one and im not sure how much work it would be to just write up a paragraph saying whats important in the dungeon to find so I can put it elsewhere. Its pretty much the reason I don't think I'll ever run the wotc stuff.

Nehru the Damaja
May 20, 2005

Paladin posted:

The character flips over to a page in common containing weird, highly personal and "bargain made with devils in a fairy tale" in there-- things like the first breeze of summer, the laughter of an old man-- but then have every page after become increasingly tailored to the player reading it-- "your family's disappointment", "mortal faith, shattered", "the sister you never knew you had", "one (1) beloved songbird, drowned"-- more and more bizarre and unsettling. The last thing offers something incredible/horrific, just as the book crumbles away to singed hair and rotting pieces of meat.

Ahahah this is fantastic. Even more so because if I ever get this drat Feywild campaign going, a recurring theme is the visitors from the prime plane deal in gold but fey want favors and unique curiosities. A book like this would fit so well. I'll just have to have a reason for one of Mammon's goons to drop by.

DalaranJ
Apr 15, 2008

Yosuke will now die for you.

Sion posted:

holy gently caress I hate everything about this

Hey, we've got this completely uninspiring gridmap that goes on forever. What color should we make it?

It's D&D as a cover shooter.

Toshimo
Aug 23, 2012

He's outta line...

But he's right!
For AL play, how should I generally expect the Shield spell to be handled:
(A) I know before casting if the +5AC would matter
(B) Casting blind and maybe wasting it

Kaysette
Jan 5, 2009

~*Boston makes me*~
~*feel good*~

:wrongcity:

Toshimo posted:

For AL play, how should I generally expect the Shield spell to be handled:
(A) I know before casting if the +5AC would matter
(B) Casting blind and maybe wasting it

It’ll vary DM to DM but when I’m attacking players I usually just ask “does an X hit?” then they can quickly do the math.

Novum
May 26, 2012

That's how we roll
So many things rely on a DM saying what they roll it seems lame to not just say "the ratata attacks you, 15" and see what the player says. I have this issue with my DM where I alternate between an unambiguously 2 handed weapon and a spear and shield but he only has my AC written down with the shield up so I just have to sort of assume he's paying attention to that and I'm not being a sneakcheat.

MonsterEnvy
Feb 4, 2012

Shocked I tell you

DalaranJ posted:

Hey, we've got this completely uninspiring gridmap that goes on forever. What color should we make it?

It's D&D as a cover shooter.
The original version of the map was not much better

kingcom posted:

Yep this is definitely a strong reminder why I never could get into RPGs until university.

I really hope this adventure path gives me a way to bypass the dungeon crawl, I genuinely have no interest in running one and im not sure how much work it would be to just write up a paragraph saying whats important in the dungeon to find so I can put it elsewhere. Its pretty much the reason I don't think I'll ever run the wotc stuff.

That map actually has nothing to do with with WotC other then having been reprinted by them for a short adventure back in 4e. It was a originally a 2e map from before WotC got the licence.


From the sound of it the maps in the new adventure are going to be new. (And smaller, but have room for expansion.) And also from the sound of it have lots of variation. (Communities exist in undermountain along with a entire town, there is a lot that can be done with this dungeon.)

MonsterEnvy fucked around with this message at 06:35 on Jun 4, 2018

kingcom
Jun 23, 2012

MonsterEnvy posted:

The original version of the map was not much better


That map actually has nothing to do with with WotC other then having been reprinted by them for a short adventure back in 4e. It was a originally a 2e map from before WotC got the licence.


From the sound of it the maps in the new adventure are going to be new. (And smaller, but have room for expansion.) And also from the sound of it have lots of variation. (Communities exist in undermountain along with a entire town, there is a lot that can be done with this dungeon.)

Okay but like I said, I have no interest in doing a dungeon crawl and since so many of the wotc adventures have a big ol' dungeon crawl in them, I have no reason to really run through them.

At no point did I say that map had anything to do with wotc.

Elector_Nerdlingen
Sep 27, 2004



MonsterEnvy posted:

From the sound of it the maps in the new adventure are going to be new. (And smaller, but have room for expansion.) And also from the sound of it have lots of variation. (Communities exist in undermountain along with a entire town, there is a lot that can be done with this dungeon.)

The maps can't get much smaller and contain a town. That original map is like 650x450m. You could run around the outside of it in 15 minutes, easy.

Elector_Nerdlingen fucked around with this message at 07:01 on Jun 4, 2018

MonsterEnvy
Feb 4, 2012

Shocked I tell you

kingcom posted:

Okay but like I said, I have no interest in doing a dungeon crawl and since so many of the wotc adventures have a big ol' dungeon crawl in them, I have no reason to really run through them.

At no point did I say that map had anything to do with wotc.

Oh ok that is fair enough. Big Dungeon crawls are not for everyone. But it feels a bit odd to be involved with Dungeons and Dragons and not like the the Dungeon part.

xiw
Sep 25, 2011

i wake up at night
night action madness nightmares
maybe i am scum

Cpig Haiku contest 2020 winner
Good timing, https://twitter.com/DysonLogos/status/1003449651213864963 just showed up

So now I'm interested because Dyson's maps are amazing and I've pillaged them extensively for every fantasy game (4e,13A,Torchbearer) I've run in the last few years.

MonsterEnvy
Feb 4, 2012

Shocked I tell you
Well even if big dungeons are not the style I think Dragon Heist sounds interesting cause it appears to be going in a different direction. Being a fairly short urban campaign about pulling off a heist. Apparently it's very different to all previous 5e adventures.

xiw Could you show me an example or two of Dyson's maps. I am unfamiliar.

kingcom
Jun 23, 2012

MonsterEnvy posted:

But it feels a bit odd to be involved with Dungeons and Dragons and not like the the Dungeon part.

YEAH, please tell the people I run D&D for this.

Razorwired
Dec 7, 2008

It's about to start!

MonsterEnvy posted:

Oh ok that is fair enough. Big Dungeon crawls are not for everyone. But it feels a bit odd to be involved with Dungeons and Dragons and not like the the Dungeon part.

"Dungeon" has meant a string of thematic encounters for a few editions now. Not liking the cliche rock hole full of goblins approach isn't really that shocking. Especially considering this thread has multiple pages of "I don't like when the game makes me stick to the parameters on my character sheet. Who says my 8 Cha Barbarian couldn't just brute force the social encounter with REAL ROLEPLAYING?"

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PublicOpinion
Oct 21, 2010

Her style is new but the face is the same as it was so long ago...

MonsterEnvy posted:

xiw Could you show me an example or two of Dyson's maps. I am unfamiliar.

https://rpgcharacters.wordpress.com/maps/

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