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I enjoy breaching shot even if it may not be considered be considered as good as bulwark. Sometimes the AI has bulwark or is even smart enough to entrench itself against all my LRMs and SRMs. And to that I say my Gauss Rifle doesn't care.
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Jun 4, 2018 13:09
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And Tyler Too! posted:I enjoy breaching shot even if it may not be considered be considered as good as bulwark. Sometimes the AI has bulwark or is even smart enough to entrench itself against all my LRMs and SRMs. And to that I say my Gauss Rifle doesn't care. I used bulwark and breaching shot on pretty much all my guys. When confronted by three mechs evading in woods, it's nice to be able to strip three evasion with a single mech and ignore the woods effect.
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Jun 4, 2018 13:14
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I really don't see the point in anything with longer than ML/SRM range. You can't shoot past visibility range (ie ML/SRM range) without a spotter, so you pay extra weight/heat for the ability to... hang back a bit while your spotter gets focused? I can see an argument for LRM boating since they have great stability damage, but even that seems marginal versus going with an all-brawler lance which will give you greater overall firepower and higher alphas for coring enemies out with precision strike, while also spreading incoming damage around your lance more. Plus most maps have a lot of hills, so even with a spotter, range isn't doing anything a lot of the time unless you dedicate a mech's shooting phase to sensor locking so that you can shoot LRMs at something with an accuracy penalty. ACs smaller than a 20 I don't see the point in at all unless you have an open ballistic slot and nothing else to spend the tonnage on.
Wafflecopper fucked around with this message at 15:09 on Jun 4, 2018 |
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Jun 4, 2018 15:05
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Gort posted:I used bulwark and breaching shot on pretty much all my guys. When confronted by three mechs evading in woods, it's nice to be able to strip three evasion with a single mech and ignore the woods effect. I go with this combo on all my guys too but rarely use breaching shot. All of the tier two abilities feel pretty lackluster to me so it wins almost by default. What's the point in stripping one evasion from each of three mechs when it's better to be focusing them down one at a time anyway?
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Jun 4, 2018 15:07
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I kind of hope they start adding support for ECM stuff.Wafflecopper posted:I really don't see the point in anything with longer than ML/SRM range. You can't shoot past visibility range (ie ML/SRM range) without a spotter, so you pay extra weight/heat for the ability to... hang back a bit while your spotter gets focused? I can see an argument for LRM boating since they have great stability damage, but even that seems marginal versus going with an all-brawler lance which will give you greater overall firepower and higher alphas for coring enemies out with precision strike, while also spreading incoming damage around your lance more. Plus most maps have a lot of hills, so even with a spotter range isn't doing anything a lot of the time unless you dedicate a mech's shooting phase to sensor locking so that you can shoot LRMs at something with an accuracy penalty. ACs smaller than a 20 I don't see the point in at all unless you have an open ballistic slot and nothing else to spend the tonnage on. TAG and Arrow IV, baby  RIP Keith Andrew 
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Jun 4, 2018 15:07
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CommieGIR posted:I kind of hope they start adding support for ECM stuff. Now there's a thought. Replace sensor lock with some other skill, and bundle sensor lock into a gear piece (TAG or BAP).
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Jun 4, 2018 15:13
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Wafflecopper posted:I really don't see the point in anything with longer than ML/SRM range. You can't shoot past visibility range (ie ML/SRM range) without a spotter, so you pay extra weight/heat for the ability to... hang back a bit while your spotter gets focused? I can see an argument for LRM boating since they have great stability damage, but even that seems marginal versus going with an all-brawler lance which will give you greater overall firepower and higher alphas for coring enemies out with precision strike, while also spreading incoming damage around your lance more. Plus most maps have a lot of hills, so even with a spotter, range isn't doing anything a lot of the time unless you dedicate a mech's shooting phase to sensor locking so that you can shoot LRMs at something with an accuracy penalty. ACs smaller than a 20 I don't see the point in at all unless you have an open ballistic slot and nothing else to spend the tonnage on. Boosting general visual range up to 400 or 450 ( I forget which I did) really makes an impact on this.
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Jun 4, 2018 15:16
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Yeah if I wanted to balance games myself I'd be a dev
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Jun 4, 2018 15:19
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Sensor Lock is great early game and drat near pointless late game when all of the other mechs are too fat to gain any more than 2 evasion pips.
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Jun 4, 2018 15:20
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And Tyler Too! posted:Sensor Lock is great early game and drat near pointless late game when all of the other mechs are too fat to gain any more than 2 evasion pips. I was talking more for the LoS tagging
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Jun 4, 2018 15:22
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And Tyler Too! posted:Sensor Lock is great early game and drat near pointless late game when all of the other mechs are too fat to gain any more than 2 evasion pips. I find use for it jumping an assault brawler ahead to sensor lock someone at the edge of range. I have two mechs that can knock it down easy pz.
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Jun 4, 2018 15:23
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And Tyler Too! posted:Sensor Lock is great early game and drat near pointless late game when all of the other mechs are too fat to gain any more than 2 evasion pips. Even if you don't care about the indirect fire capability (I can understand sensor lock feeling less 'worth it' on an assault armed to the teeth rather than a smaller mech with less guns). You can still use it to deliberately trigger the combat mode while you are already in position and the fat enemy assault sensor blobs are still in awkward spots. While being too slow to reach trees or hide their stalker behind a rock to indirect fire on the first turn phase they otherwise would have had you simply let the fight happen in it's own time. Section Z fucked around with this message at 16:03 on Jun 4, 2018 |
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Jun 4, 2018 15:55
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I find that Tactical Mastery is by far the most useful of the 2nd tier skills once I hit the end game. The other skill is either bulwark (if I don't want them to move), or the +evasion skill if I do want them to run around. Multi-shot is helpful for LRM boats but otherwise if I'm shooting something I'm trying to focus fire via called shot.
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Jun 4, 2018 16:08
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It's really stupid that the entire balance of the game revolves around the existence of Called Shot.
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Jun 4, 2018 16:09
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Sandwich Anarchist posted:It's really stupid that the entire balance of the game revolves around the existence of Called Shot. The issue being being able to endlessly spam it once you have the +morale mods. There's absolutely nothing in the game that a Highlander with 4 medium lasers and 3 SRM6++ can't core out, and the end game seems to be more about action economy than anything else. The only thing you really miss out on is being able to reliably cap enemy mechs, and you can accommodate that through LRM spam. If called shot was limited to when a mech was down, and if stability was harder to degrade, I think it would help a lot.
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Jun 4, 2018 16:22
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Sandwich Anarchist posted:It's really stupid that the entire balance of the game revolves around the existence of Called Shot.
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Jun 4, 2018 16:23
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CommieGIR posted:I kind of hope they start adding support for ECM stuff. Doesn't Keith link up with the northern elements trying to reach you in the first place?
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Jun 4, 2018 16:37
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wiegieman posted:Doesn't Keith link up with the northern elements trying to reach you in the first place? No, after Keith fires his Arrow IVs in support of your lance's assault on the SpacePort, his fire support mission reveals his position and he gets hunted down by Smoke Jaguar forces. His plan was to originally link up with the Northern evac force, but he doesn't make it. Keith was piloting a Catapult with Arrow 4s, so it was unlikely he had much other weaponry with which to fend off even half a lance in close combat. CommieGIR fucked around with this message at 17:26 on Jun 4, 2018 |
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Jun 4, 2018 17:16
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new interview - https://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2018/06/04/battletech-speed-options-patch-details/quote:RPS: Can you tell us more about the official speed tweaks you plan to offer in the forthcoming update? How extensive will they be? What are the red lines you don’t want them to cross, in terms of preserving your original vision for this game?
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Jun 4, 2018 17:58
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Wafflecopper posted:I really don't see the point in anything with longer than ML/SRM range. You can't shoot past visibility range (ie ML/SRM range) without a spotter, so you pay extra weight/heat for the ability to... hang back a bit while your spotter gets focused? I can see an argument for LRM boating since they have great stability damage, but even that seems marginal versus going with an all-brawler lance which will give you greater overall firepower and higher alphas for coring enemies out with precision strike, while also spreading incoming damage around your lance more. Plus most maps have a lot of hills, so even with a spotter, range isn't doing anything a lot of the time unless you dedicate a mech's shooting phase to sensor locking so that you can shoot LRMs at something with an accuracy penalty. ACs smaller than a 20 I don't see the point in at all unless you have an open ballistic slot and nothing else to spend the tonnage on. I almost always get use out of the longer than ML range weapons, with stock vision distance. It means you can focus fire on one mech, making your damage more efficient from longer ranges and you don't lose out any damage, because spotters can still shoot (sensor lock is kind of a trap). It also lets you trade damage very efficiently. If your entire lance is brawlers then your opponent decides where the damage goes, and that's obviously much more risky than you deciding where the damage goes.
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Jun 4, 2018 18:02
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Beer4TheBeerGod posted:The issue being being able to endlessly spam it once you have the +morale mods. There's absolutely nothing in the game that a Highlander with 4 medium lasers and 3 SRM6++ can't core out, and the end game seems to be more about action economy than anything else. The only thing you really miss out on is being able to reliably cap enemy mechs, and you can accommodate that through LRM spam. If called shot was limited to when a mech was down, and if stability was harder to degrade, I think it would help a lot. Removing morale called shot would completely bork the game, because it's still throwing 2+ full lances at you every mission. With the current mission structure, you need called shot to stand a chance. It sucks.
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Jun 4, 2018 18:09
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Sandwich Anarchist posted:It's really stupid that the entire balance of the game revolves around the existence of Called Shot. Called shot is a problem, for sure- Battletech has always relied on the weighted random distribution of shots to work as a system- Any game that allows focus fire without totally re-balancing the TT armor and weapon values is going to run in to lots of issues (As we've seen). I think the best solution in this game is probably actually twofold- just treat Precision strike as a blanket to hit bonus + initiative debuff, without allowing it to pick locations. Additionally, let mechs with TTS systems equipped make actual called shots with the relevant weapon types, but at a penalty to hit, ala TT. (Unless the target is knocked down or shut down). Since that's a more complicated change, if I were going in to a fresh campaign, I would mod precision strike to simply have a -4 to hit penalty instead of the +4 it has now. If you're going to get good use out of it, you'd better have good shots to start with/strip all evasion first. Not fire indirect LRMs from max range that laser focus a single torso to blow off most of an enemy mech's armament. By the time you routinely face 2 lances of fully armored enemies, you should have pilots with high enough Gunnery (Or TTS systems) to be able to still use Precision Strike when needed to bail you out of jams, but it won't be so ultra reliable for instantly deleting any mech with a tac9 pilot. e: I personally leaned a lot more on jumpjets + vigilance + getting consistent side arc shots at endgame than I did precision strike chain coring enemies, but that's admittedly largely personal preference. Gwaihir fucked around with this message at 18:11 on Jun 4, 2018 |
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Jun 4, 2018 18:09
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Mechs should be able to do called shots at will (no Morale cost) at significant %to hit penalty. It makes no sense to have the called shots more accurate than a regular shot. There need to be more uses for morale anyway - like an extra movement bonus, a bonus stand-up, or even call in off map arty or something to that effect.
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Jun 4, 2018 18:14
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Yea, more differing morale skills would own. Especially lategame when you have so much of it.
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Jun 4, 2018 18:19
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Sandwich Anarchist posted:Removing morale called shot would completely bork the game, because it's still throwing 2+ full lances at you every mission. With the current mission structure, you need called shot to stand a chance. It sucks. That's just plain not true. I basically didn't use Called Shot at all and still managed to get through it fine. Vigilance is just as good if not more so - unless you go all-in on the massive DPS of SRM6+++ and mass ML builds, where Called Shot shines. But that's more of a problem with those weapons being ridiculous and not so much Called Shot being overpowered.
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Jun 4, 2018 18:31
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DatonKallandor posted:That's just plain not true. I basically didn't use Called Shot at all and still managed to get through it fine. Vigilance is just as good if not more so - unless you go all-in on the massive DPS of SRM6+++ and mass ML builds, where Called Shot shines. But that's more of a problem with those weapons being ridiculous and not so much Called Shot being overpowered. I'm happy that you managed to do that, but your anecdotal experience doesn't change the fact that the game was clearly balanced around Precision Strike being a thing that the player has access to.
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Jun 4, 2018 18:42
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Sandwich Anarchist posted:I'm happy that you managed to do that, but your anecdotal experience doesn't change the fact that the game was clearly balanced around Precision Strike being a thing that the player has access to. What, you mean like how only liars claim to get headshot three times in a row, but it's perfect math to miss three 95% gauss shots in a row?
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Jun 4, 2018 18:59
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It's a tool in the toolbox, but the claim that Called Shot is the only thing that lets the player win 4v8 fights is blatantly wrong. Stock designs are bad enough and the AI nerfed enough and you've got enough non-Called Shot tools to win 4v8s.
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Jun 4, 2018 19:00
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I'd be more hosed without Vigilance tbh
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Jun 4, 2018 19:02
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Yeah Vigilance has saved my rear end a couple times.
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Jun 4, 2018 19:11
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yeah a 50-damage pinpoint strike sucks but is manageable, a 100-point one is suddenly a huge problem
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Jun 4, 2018 19:16
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I found myself using vigliance a fair amount for pilots who didn't have bulwark. It's definitely powerful, letting you be aggressive and defensive at the same time. But with bulwark 90% of that morale was going to called-shot.
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Jun 4, 2018 19:18
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Vigilance saved my rear end on Panzyr, it certainly has its uses
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Jun 4, 2018 19:30
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DatonKallandor posted:It's a tool in the toolbox, but the claim that Called Shot is the only thing that lets the player win 4v8 fights is blatantly wrong. Stock designs are bad enough and the AI nerfed enough and you've got enough non-Called Shot tools to win 4v8s. Fair enough, i didnt mean it was the only thing, my bad for being unclear. But I don't know how someone can say in good faith that the existence of precision strike isn't a major factor in the balance that exists in the game's structure.
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Jun 4, 2018 19:31
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Sandwich Anarchist posted:Removing morale called shot would completely bork the game, because it's still throwing 2+ full lances at you every mission. With the current mission structure, you need called shot to stand a chance. It sucks. I barely use called shot in the late game anyway because I got so used to doing knockdowns and you can KD 3 mechs with 2 of your mechs leaving you to core out 2 mechs a turn for free without even using any morale.
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Jun 4, 2018 19:33
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Sandwich Anarchist posted:I'm happy that you managed to do that, but your anecdotal experience doesn't change the fact that the game was clearly balanced around Precision Strike being a thing that the player has access to. The game gets ridiculously easy past the very early parts , so perhaps that balance is wrong? The players have the following advantages available to them: - Intelligence (or rather, dumb AI with exploitable weaknesses) - Initiative management - Custom designs (or even just discerning the good stocks) - Precision Strike - Vigilance - Stability damage bonused missiles You can take half of those away and the game still remains more than manageable, as evidenced by all the people using only stock designs or posting PPC shitfits, or that think Master Tactician is useless, or who swear by Vigilance (meaning they aren't maximizing Bulwark). In my opinion, you can take away PS's called shot function and remove the +stab missile variants and the game becomes less than a cakewalk, but still quite easy. Remove +stab and morale abilities altogether, and now battles can become somewhat challenging even into the lategame, and for people who just aren't good at the game well... here's the thing: the management side is also a cakewalk, for its own reasons. So even if battles are giving the player trouble, they still have the option of taking lower difficulty missions, grinding at their leisure since there's no time limits whatsoever, and gently caress you can just withdraw from non-story missions if they're unfavorable. They can scale the difficulty however they want, as is, since the metagame doesn't punish the player at all.
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Jun 4, 2018 19:43
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Sandwich Anarchist posted:Removing morale called shot would completely bork the game, because it's still throwing 2+ full lances at you every mission. With the current mission structure, you need called shot to stand a chance. It sucks. It depends on if the lances are full armor or not. The lances that come out with 25% or less armor don't really need called shot.
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Jun 4, 2018 19:55
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Is there a way to add mech variants to the enemy spawn table? I've been making a few 'field repairs' files and they show up on the multiplayer list as in-game designs but I don't know how to get the game to pick from them.
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Jun 4, 2018 20:31
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Taerkar posted:Is there a way to add mech variants to the enemy spawn table? I've been making a few 'field repairs' files and they show up on the multiplayer list as in-game designs but I don't know how to get the game to pick from them. To add mechs to the SP spawn list you have to edit the metadata database and insert a couple of rows. It's not very hard, but you have to do it for each variant you whip up. Luckily, someone has whipped up a tool to do it for you: https://www.nexusmods.com/battletech/mods/76 This reads the tags on your mech JSON files and inserts them in to the database so they'll be properly used. Make sure to tag the mechs correctly based on weight class/role/etc- That's how the game picks what it puts in each lance. Scouting lances typically have units tagged Vanguard, battle lances will have at least one tank, etc. If you have your custom mechs working in skirmish mode, then that tool will add them all and they'll show up correctly in the campaign game.
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Jun 4, 2018 20:43
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Happy to say I beat that stupid mission thanks to the new Vindicator loadout from this thread. Turns out it's not a lovely sniper mech after all. Only lost 3 arms and 1 leg in that fight. gently caress Hunchbacks, gently caress Demolishers.
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Jun 4, 2018 20:48
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