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Elyv posted:Monored usually isn't flexible enough to adapt to the hate focused against it for being the best deck, although this build is slower than traditional monored so it has a better chance. I think there is a good chance this deck becomes a tier 1 deck rather than the undisputed best deck What hate?
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Jun 4, 2018 21:41
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Sickening posted:https://www.reddit.com/r/magicTCG/comments/8oaza8/comment/e0206na?st=JHZC652P&sh=fbc50c80 lmao
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Jun 4, 2018 21:42
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Hellsau posted:What hate? Cheap spot removal like Push or Spray, presumably sweepers like Settle the Wreckage or Sweltering Suns, creatures with lifegain or passive enchantments like Authority of the Consuls. Same stuff you'd always play against Mono-Red. I dunno, mono-red felt way more oppressive when Goblin Rabblemaster and Stoke the Flame were legal at the same time and it's not like that deck was totally unbeatable even though it was probably the best deck. Angry Grimace fucked around with this message at 21:51 on Jun 4, 2018 |
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Jun 4, 2018 21:44
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A Moose posted:The angel dying is good if I've played the normal GPG, where you are playing mediocre cards specifically to dump that into that graveyard, you do not want to cast it, and if you do, it being binned isn't a problem. The goal is to make a 4/4 or 6/6 haste vigilance lifelink anthem, that's how the deck catches up from behind, and even the threat of it makes decks hold up abrade mana. Angry Grimace posted:I dunno, Ferocidon feels like a much more egregious mistake than Chainwhirler on a conceptual level because Ferocidon passively negates 2 of the most logical strategies for opposing the deck Ferocidon goes in - gaining life and creating chump blockers, while also being a logically good card on it's own. If Ferocidon was, say, a 2/1 with haste, it would be fine because the creature itself would at least be below rate. A 3/3 with Menace PLUS those two abilities is way beyond what a red 3-drop should be. Chainwhirler is much harder to cast for one, and two, if your opponent plays around it, Chainwhirler's ETB doesn't do anything special. Sure, it sucks you have to play around Chainwhirler, but at the same time, it isn't reasonable to believe every strategy you want to play should proceed totally unimpeded, particularly given that once Chainwhirler's ETB ability resolves, it's just a french vanilla 3/3. Ferocidon is not more egregious, because, as the history of magic has continually shown us, the more expensive a card is, the more of an immediate impact it has to have for it to be playable. Every single threat monored plays above 2cmc either an ETB ability, haste, or in Rekindling Phoenix's case it is inherently resistant to removal. You know what isn't played? A 3 drop that gets removed at end of turn and you get no value. Now Ferocidon is banned and I'm sure if it wasn't it would have shown up in mono red decks because it's got a lot of text on it that's good for that strategy, but it's not as good as having an ETB effect. There's a reason we aren't seeing any of the other mono colored three drops other than the green one, and those decks get housed by chainwhirler decks. IDK what french vanilla is supposed to mean, but the first strike is also incredibly relevant. This also isn't to imply Ferocidon isn'ta mistake, but they're at least equally big mistakes, and a design philosophy of stapling as many words onto a card as possible so that it sees play.
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Jun 4, 2018 21:54
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Marketing New Brain posted:I've played the normal GPG, where you are playing mediocre cards specifically to dump that into that graveyard, you do not want to cast it, and if you do, it being binned isn't a problem. The goal is to make a 4/4 or 6/6 haste vigilance lifelink anthem, that's how the deck catches up from behind, and even the threat of it makes decks hold up abrade mana. The problem with this argument is that it boils down to "dies to Doom Blade" which isn't a good argument in practice. It isn't a question of whether Ferocidon is a stronger card than Chainwhirler, it's that Ferocidon is a very poorly designed card because mainboard quality cards that passively hate on reasonable strategies are dumb even if they aren't broken. Lifebane Zombie wasn't a broken card, but it was dumb when it just randomly hosed your G/W deck in Game 1. Angry Grimace fucked around with this message at 22:03 on Jun 4, 2018 |
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Jun 4, 2018 22:00
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TheChirurgeon posted:That sucks but this doesn't really sound like a problem with Battlebond I feel really bad for battlebond because so many of the cards look great, and occupy interesting design space and honestly just seem like a lot of fun. That r/b dude who lets you bet on whether or not a creature will deal combat damage should be a rakdos card in ravnica. The mechanics of battlebond are cool, the cards look nice, the flavor of the plane is incredible. Unfortunately two headed giant is a trash garbage format that I loving loathe playing. Best of 1 sucks, everything about the format is swingy garbage, and for a best of 1 format every loving game goes to time somehow. Wizards packaged cool and fun cards in a format that I have absolutely no desire to play. gently caress it's me I'm goons.txt
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Jun 4, 2018 22:14
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Are any new formats coming to Arena, or are they staying with constructed and draft? Also, is it getting the new core deck when it comes out?
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Jun 4, 2018 22:19
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Counterpoint Battlebond is good and fun. The only complaint I had is that the partners might be a bit overpowered. If you get the chance try a draft. It was really challenging and fun.
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Jun 4, 2018 22:20
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Marketing New Brain posted:IDK what french vanilla is supposed to mean, but the first strike is also incredibly relevant. Also for the record, Kratos is the least of Mono-U's problems in the matchup. Even with Soul-Scar Mage it just means I need to find another Favorable Winds. Glorybringer and Unlicensed Disintegration are the real hosers because they remove my good creatures and also kill me.
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Jun 4, 2018 22:20
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If Red decks with Chainwhirler could dominate long enough to tank prices on Karn and Teferi that would be faaaaaaaaaantastic.
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Jun 4, 2018 22:21
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Randaconda posted:Are any new formats coming to Arena, or are they staying with constructed and draft? Also, is it getting the new core deck when it comes out? In the Thursday update we are getting best of 3s, 24/7 drafts and I believe they said next week a singleton format. The core set should be out the week of release just like every set since Ixalan has.
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Jun 4, 2018 22:22
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I agree, Battlebond was a chore to play. If one person on the team gets flooded/screwed then it's 1v2. My one match where I got flooded was only a close game because someone on the other team was also flooded, but then they drew Play of the Game and that was that. Then the cards are worthless outside of 2HG because who in Commander is going to help you cast spells with assist? Even my multiplayer cube can't use the cards for the same reason, plus I can't fix the cube so a player is guaranteed to get the partner pairs. At least they tried something new. My store's FNM this week is Battlebond and I'm either going to stay home or find someone to get drunk with while we play.
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Jun 4, 2018 22:28
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Mezzanon posted:I feel really bad for battlebond because so many of the cards look great, and occupy interesting design space and honestly just seem like a lot of fun. That r/b dude who lets you bet on whether or not a creature will deal combat damage should be a rakdos card in ravnica. You really need to look at the set as a much needed Commander set and not a 2HG draft set. Sure it's meant to be drafted but the real playability is within Commander.
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Jun 4, 2018 22:28
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Rojo_Sombrero posted:You really need to look at the set as a much needed Commander set and not a 2HG draft set. Sure it's meant to be drafted but the real playability is within Commander. Jokes on me I also dislike commander
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Jun 4, 2018 22:30
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BGrifter posted:If Red decks with Chainwhirler could dominate long enough to tank prices on Karn and Teferi that would be faaaaaaaaaantastic. Both are seeing play in other formats so I wouldnt bet on it.
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Jun 4, 2018 22:31
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Yeah if you're waiting on Karn or Teferi to get cheap you're gonna be disappointed unless they pull a Chandra and print them in the FNM-ready precons
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Jun 4, 2018 22:43
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suicidesteve posted:Remember when Mardu Vehiclds was 7/8 of that GP top 8 and everyone immediately knew standard was dead again and then it went in to be an ok deck for the rest of its time in the format? Remember when Mardu Vehicles was top 6/8 at a GP and then top 7/8 at a PT? I don't. Chainwhirler aggro didn't spike a tournament, it came in as the deck to beat and then performed even better. Angry Grimace posted:The problem with this argument is that it boils down to "dies to Doom Blade" which isn't a good argument in practice. It isn't a question of whether Ferocidon is a stronger card than Chainwhirler, it's that Ferocidon is a very poorly designed card because mainboard quality cards that passively hate on reasonable strategies are dumb even if they aren't broken. Lifebane Zombie wasn't a broken card, but it was dumb when it just randomly hosed your G/W deck in Game 1. How does that exact description of Ferocidon not apply to Chainwhirler, except with the addition of "is the best creature in the format"? P.S. "Dies to Doom Blade" is a perfectly reasonable point. It's not enough to invalidate a card on it's own, but it is a significant strike against a card at 3 cmc +. Ferocidon was powerful enough that it was extremely good despite that, but it doesn't make the point invalid. Lyra has mostly disappeared because of it - with the move from mostly Mono R to mostly Rb, Lyra went from extremely hard to deal with to a risky play, and that was enough to push her out of defining the meta.
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Jun 4, 2018 22:45
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Tainen posted:In the Thursday update we are getting best of 3s, 24/7 drafts and I believe they said next week a singleton format. Too bad they won't throw some of the old sets on there, just for fun. The set was overall pretty bad, but I have a lot of nostalgia for Fallen Empires.
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Jun 4, 2018 22:52
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Tom Clancy is Dead posted:How does that exact description of Ferocidon not apply to Chainwhirler, except with the addition of "is the best creature in the format"? Not getting to play X/1s is a bummer but come on.
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Jun 4, 2018 22:59
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The problem is all the cards surrounding chainwhirler not the card itself. Red has access to too many resilient threats on top of two of the best card advantage engines in standard. If you want point fingers they should be pointed squarely at hazoret, heart of kiran, bomat courier and chandra. Phoenix isnt helping either.
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Jun 4, 2018 23:10
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AnEdgelord posted:The problem is all the cards surrounding chainwhirler not the card itself. Red has access to too many resilient threats on top of two of the best card advantage engines in standard. And Soul-Scar Mage. Red's just really drat good right now
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Jun 4, 2018 23:13
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AnEdgelord posted:The problem is all the cards surrounding chainwhirler not the card itself. Red has access to too many resilient threats on top of two of the best card advantage engines in standard. I’d believe this if chainwhirler was just seeing a lot of play like Hazoret or Phoenix, or hell even the recursive artifact I can’t remember the name of. But every single deck that played him played him as a 4 of, and no other card even showed up in every list. That tells you all you need to know really.
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Jun 4, 2018 23:14
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Friend of mine wanted to borrow a deck from me for the team RPTQ... He did not invite me to team with him at said RPTQ. 
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Jun 4, 2018 23:16
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I mean, part of the problem is that people have been conditioned to believe that cards that are good are automatically bannable. "Ban Chainwhirler" is incredibly premature.
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Jun 4, 2018 23:20
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That's flatly untrue. Abrade was also in every list. 
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Jun 4, 2018 23:20
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Mezzanon posted:I feel really bad for battlebond because so many of the cards look great, and occupy interesting design space and honestly just seem like a lot of fun. That r/b dude who lets you bet on whether or not a creature will deal combat damage should be a rakdos card in ravnica. I would say all of this is way more true of Conspiracy products than Battlebond. Granted, I haven't played BB yet, but I'm one of those guys who hates >2 player magic because I'd rather win or lose on play skill and deck construction than on politics and the whims of alliances, and 2HG seemed fine to me the few times I've played it. As long as there's only 2 sides vs each other you avoid almost all the real problems of Commander type multiplayer formats. It sounds like the people at PJOmega's LGS would be just as miserable to play with in Standard or Modern or normal booster draft.
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Jun 4, 2018 23:21
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mcmagic posted:Friend of mine wanted to borrow a deck from me for the team RPTQ... He did not invite me to team with him at said RPTQ. lol
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Jun 4, 2018 23:21
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Marketing New Brain posted:even the recursive artifact I can't remember the name of Edit: The only reason Chandra's not in every deck is because Wyatt Darby is a weirdo and put her in the sideboard for whatever reason. Siivola fucked around with this message at 23:42 on Jun 4, 2018 |
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Jun 4, 2018 23:33
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Marketing New Brain posted:I’d believe this if chainwhirler was just seeing a lot of play like Hazoret or Phoenix, or hell even the recursive artifact I can’t remember the name of. But every single deck that played him played him as a 4 of, and no other card even showed up in every list. That tells you all you need to know really. Red didnt win Protour Hour of Devastation off of Goblin Chainwhirler.
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Jun 4, 2018 23:35
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... It won it off of Ramunap Ruins.
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Jun 4, 2018 23:45
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unban everything
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Jun 4, 2018 23:52
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poo poo I should run Scrapheap Scrounger and Heart of Kiran.
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Jun 4, 2018 23:53
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Entropic posted:I would say all of this is way more true of Conspiracy products than Battlebond. Granted, I haven't played BB yet, but I'm one of those guys who hates >2 player magic because I'd rather win or lose on play skill and deck construction than on politics and the whims of alliances, and 2HG seemed fine to me the few times I've played it. As long as there's only 2 sides vs each other you avoid almost all the real problems of Commander type multiplayer formats. It sounds like the people at PJOmega's LGS would be just as miserable to play with in Standard or Modern or normal booster draft. yeah 2hg is a little better than a 4 player free-for-all since it's just two sides, but as a sanctioned format it's horrendous because people will just chat and think over a play for like 5 god drat minutes, and it's not like you can call a judge for slow play in a casual format. me and a buddy played a tournament yesterday and a game went to time on TURN NINE in a 50 minute round. gently caress that.
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Jun 4, 2018 23:56
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Ban Standard. Replace with Pauper.
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Jun 5, 2018 00:01
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Pauper Standard.
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Jun 5, 2018 00:03
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Tom Clancy is Dead posted:... It won it off of Ramunap Ruins. Ramunap Ruins died for Bomat Courier's and Hazoret's sins
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Jun 5, 2018 00:19
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Whatever, let red be good for a while. It won't be dominant post-rotation
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Jun 5, 2018 00:23
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Monored seems like a tide of mtg  it's dominant every now and again by its nature of aggression
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Jun 5, 2018 00:39
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I’m curious, how does the size of the card pool this standard stack up to M12 superstandard? Because mono red was very strong there and here and it feels like there are a lot of sets bouncing around standard right now.
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Jun 5, 2018 00:45
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Entropic posted:It sounds like the people at PJOmega's LGS would be just as miserable to play with in Standard or Modern or normal booster draft. Yeah, I have no problem with Battlebond itself. Or 2HG as a concept. In fact I really like Battlebond. Weekend "fun events" inevitably attract garbage at that LGS that makes it not worth attending events. I drat well knew it was a possibility, still frustrating. It's not fun feeling that you have to watch a second match like a hawk because you know the players have been lovely AND they're playing against more casual players that won't catch their bullshit.
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Jun 5, 2018 00:49
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