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docbeard posted:Am I the only person who kind of casually slides Person of Interest into the Marvel Netflix-verse despite neither being a Marvel nor a Netflix series? Great, now I want Fusco and Bear to be in Punisher S2. They would fit in pretty well.
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Jun 1, 2018 18:35
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Ugly In The Morning posted:Great, now I want Fusco and Bear to be in Punisher S2. They would fit in pretty well. Nah, they should go to The Tick.
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Jun 1, 2018 18:42
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Person of Interest is in the Lost universe, because that one guy and also I can't be bothered to watch it.
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Jun 2, 2018 00:13
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But it’s so loving good
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Jun 2, 2018 07:38
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counterfeitsaint posted:Punisher was pretty good, but I wish they'd stop doubling down on his origin conspiracy. I really liked it best when Frank was just in the wrong place at the wrong time and maybe crazy because of a bullet in his brain still. But no, actually the whole thing is a conspiracy setup by his former CO to murder his family because heroin. But no actually that conspiracy is a small finding arm of a bigger conspiracy involving CIA blacksites etc. I hope we don't learn in S2 that the whole thing was really orchestrated by the illuminati has a distract for their real plan. I hope they keep introducing more players involved in killing Frank's family. I want the Cartel to have played a part in it. I want Galactus to have sent a Herald to sow chaos on Earth and have that he one of many tragedies it was responsible for. I want the death of Frank's family to have been a neccessary part of HYDRA's grand plan.
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Jun 2, 2018 08:10
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RareAcumen posted:I hope they keep introducing more players involved in killing Frank's family. I want the Cartel to have played a part in it. I want Galactus to have sent a Herald to sow chaos on Earth and have that he one of many tragedies it was responsible for.
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Jun 2, 2018 09:31
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Cythereal posted:I think the show very deliberately was avoiding the "Frank Castle guns down I completely disagree. That is the character, for good or ill, and the uncompromisingness really is a big factor. The big problem is why he turns into the Punisher with the CIA drug origin story stuff. I mean is he ever going to go after normal criminals or is he exclusively going to be fighting military people until the end of time? Also the big thing adaptations of the Punisher keep messing up is the revenge factor. Direct revenge was not his immediate goal. I loved the comic where he doesn't kill the main people responsible for his family for like 30 years, and goes into a prison to do it. With the revenge story, it's harder to make the leap into non-revenge punishing. Part of what made the best stories for the character wasn't gunning down just random people, it was spending a lot of time with REALLY deplorable villains and seeing the moves/counter-moves. I think the Slavers comic is a great example of that. He sets an old guy on fire and tosses a woman into a bulletproof window until it, and she, breaks. It's disturbing but you got to know just how loving vile those people were over the story so it becomes a great gray area. I really love the actor but the show made some mistakes I think. Also it irks me any time the Punisher lets someone go. Like I thought this was going to be the actual end of Turk, and if they stayed true to the character, it would have been. But I'm also enjoying this take so take this as a Ennis Punisher fan perspective and not necessarily the ultimate opinion or anything. I wasn't super crazy about the origin of this version of Jigsaw, either. Well part of it. I loved the mirror-face slash but the whole "I want you to live and remember this" is definitely different for this character. I don't remember the nature of comic Jigsaw's face mangling, but I do know the Punisher full well intended to kill him when it happened. It's a minor pet peeve but I think I'd liked it a tiny bit better if he had to let him go to save Madini from dying or something; anything to explain why he's going to get to come back around to kill more people which will, infact, be his fault. Blazing Ownager fucked around with this message at 13:42 on Jun 2, 2018 |
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Jun 2, 2018 12:04
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Blazing Ownager posted:I completely disagree. That is the character, for good or ill, and the uncompromisingness really is a big factor. The big problem is why he turns into the Punisher with the CIA drug origin story stuff. I mean is he ever going to go after normal criminals or is he exclusively going to be fighting military people until the end of time? Comics make changes to characters all the time, but when changes get made in the transition to a screen, they are mistakes and big problems.
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Jun 2, 2018 15:20
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LesterGroans posted:Jessica Jones 1 Did I miss something or did u get an advanced screening or something?
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Jun 2, 2018 15:36
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When Punisher debuted in DD S2 I too was like 'wtf this isn't Punisher what the hell' I mean he goes out with Karen for coffee and counsels her on her love life. Imagine Punisher from the MAX series doing that, it'd never even happen. MAX is set on the tail end of the Punisher's career, after he has a 'fame' and his deeds speak for himself. So in MAX we're seeing the result of a lifetime of Punishin', and as a result we do see the rawest and the most distilated essence of the character, it's the result of the dude honing his skills over a lifetime of killing, and I thought it did a pretty good job of showing how Frank has changed as a result of that and left his human side behind to become more of a force of nature/horror movie monster with laser focus on killin' bad guys. What I'm nerdin out about is that MAX is super duper swell and I'm fine with it being the 'definiton' of the character, but it doesn't preclude other things from exploring other angles. What sated me is thinking that the Punisher we see in the MCU is sort of a 'year one' Punisher, still coming to terms with things and figuring things out. In that context is definitely plausible that he'd let Turk go, and even possibly entertain thoughts of not punishing anymore/personal redemption which is why he lets Russo live.
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Jun 2, 2018 15:38
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BiggerBoat posted:Did I miss something or did u get an advanced screening or something? They're talking about the second half of Luke Cage with Diamondback. Or just when Cottonmouth dies. Andrigaar posted:Avengers 4: Punisher Kills the Marvel Universe Whoa, slow your roll there. That's not till at least Avengers 7 has been out for five months. Looking forward to Cable showing up in Punisher season 2 though. Personally I was surprised to see him leave Turk alive but then again, he didn't see him so he couldn't identify him at all. And he's small time enough that he's easy to hustle for weapons if poo poo goes down and he has to start from scratch again for whatever reason.
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Jun 2, 2018 15:57
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When Punisher appeared in DD S2 I too was all "this guy isn't anything like the character in the comics, I'm enjoying watching him and interested in seeing more of him!"
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Jun 2, 2018 19:57
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docbeard posted:When Punisher appeared in DD S2 I too was all "this guy isn't anything like the character in the comics, I'm enjoying watching him and interested in seeing more of him!" This but unironically. Comics Punisher is a bad character. An interesting character at times, but a bad one. Especially these days when the cops usually appear in the news because they did shoot an unarmed and helpless person and never face consequences for it.
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Jun 2, 2018 20:01
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The Punisher is literally fetishized by Murderer Cops so turning his series into a criticism of how the military abuses its soldiers before and after their service is miles better than the comic book character
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Jun 2, 2018 20:03
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AnEdgelord posted:The Punisher is literally fetishized by Murderer Cops so turning his series into a criticism of how the military abuses its soldiers before and after their service is miles better than the comic book character But, but, but, the (pretty much non-canonical) MAX series... 
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Jun 2, 2018 20:27
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Garth Ennis Punisher is considered the most iconic version of the character for a reason, but that's very much a series that tries to have its cake and it eat too with regards to the glorification of violence versus how it ruins people's lives. It would not have been a good fit for Jon Bernthal at all and I'm glad they didn't go in that direction without at least building up to it.
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Jun 2, 2018 20:30
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Barely related to anything but I loving love how all the worst people in Ennis comics are unfailingly courteous to service workers. Oh and 'special forces denude units of their motivated men' which I'm sure is in both Max and The Boys.
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Jun 2, 2018 20:44
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Hakkesshu posted:Garth Ennis Punisher is considered the most iconic version of the character for a reason, but that's very much a series that tries to have its cake and it eat too with regards to the glorification of violence versus how it ruins people's lives. It would not have been a good fit for Jon Bernthal at all and I'm glad they didn't go in that direction without at least building up to it. I guess I look at it like this: You're not supposed to be entirely behind his actions, or follow him like a normal hero (In the good comics). In fact, he's at his most interesting when he's basically the boogeyman, and highly dangerous well armed criminals basically become teenagers in a slasher flick up against him, trying to survive. It's like a reverse slasher movie. You know that opening scene of Blade where all of the vampires freak the gently caress out when he shows up, because to them he's the monster? That really sums the comic take on the character up quite a bit. Still, I rather see this version of the character do more poo poo like obliterating biker gangs and such like we saw bits and pieces of in the first episode. ED: Actually my FAVORITE take on the character is hilariously from the batshit insane Xbox game where you constantly have PTSD flashbacks to your dead family while dangling people over wood chippers. The game rewarded you for not throwing them in, but.. yeah, you're going to throw them in. That game was kind of an amazing gem just for the sheer hilarious number of special kills. There's no way that would work on film but my God is it constantly hilarious as it never stops coming with new creative WTF executions. Also the Deadpool 2 funeral scene is pretty much the 2nd level of the Punisher game. Blazing Ownager fucked around with this message at 21:05 on Jun 2, 2018 |
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Jun 2, 2018 21:00
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Blazing Ownager posted:I guess I look at it like this: You're not supposed to be entirely behind his actions, or follow him like a normal hero (In the good comics). In fact, he's at his most interesting when he's basically the boogeyman, and highly dangerous well armed criminals basically become teenagers in a slasher flick up against him, trying to survive. It's like a reverse slasher movie. Here's the problem: your typical tv audience is not going to get that. The people who plaster Punisher logos over their squad cars and wear shirts with the Punisher skull do not realize that they're the kinds of people the Punisher would kill. I thought that was the entire point of the ultra-right suicide bomber in Punisher. He's your normal comic book Punisher, and the usual guy who's a fan of the Punisher. He's a bad guy. The cops in this country do not need to be encouraged to murder innocent people over trivial excuses. I know people in real life who haven't called the cops when they were assaulted or robbed because they were more afraid of the police than they were of the person who attacked them.
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Jun 2, 2018 21:11
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Cythereal posted:
Uh no he's not. In every incarnation of the character it's made clear that dude goes to extreme lenghts to make sure only his targets die. Random bombing where innocents die isn't the Punisher's deal at all. It's like saying Batfleck is 'the normal comic book Batman'. I'm not touching the rest of your post, just this one sentence I bolded. I don't know if my earlier post was misunderstood, but for what it's worth, I agree that the regular comics Punisher (or worse, MAX Punisher) couldn't (and shouldn't!) be done faithfully on the screen in this day and age. I love what Bernthal did with the character and while I as a big fat nerd at first was ruffled with it, I've come to terms with it and think it's very cool and works great.
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Jun 2, 2018 22:12
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The problem with the Punisher comics in the Garth Ennis era is that they turn Frank Castle into a cardboard cut out who only performs rote actions and doesn't have any kind of personality. I read some of the older Punisher comics and I'm surprised at how much of an actual recognizable human being Frank is. He's surly and is still Growly McSquareJaw but he also flies a kite in Central Park, goes through a multi issue arc where he has to fight brainwashing that ends with him reconnecting with a wife and children (and when they die in front of him he's visibly haunted) and is still able to interact with human society. Garth Ennis MAX comics and the post-Ennis era does not do this to any appreciable degree, they transform him into this robot that never changes his expression and kills people in increasingly uncreative ways. I guess this would work out if you're playing a video game like Hatred but part of the appeal of capeshit is supposed to be the human drama that lives underneath the super heroics and once you cut that out then you lose something very important and nothing I've read in the Current Year or the previous ones makes me think that Frank Castle should continue to be an appealing character, simply because he has no character. One thing that DDS2 did right was giving him an emotional arc where he began one place and ended another, but remained a human person underneath it. This carried through to the Punisher tv series. If the only critique of Netflix Punisher is that "he's too much of an actual person and he emotes too much and he has feelings, and I don't like it" then I think they're doing a decent job.
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Jun 3, 2018 00:33
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I never really read punisher comics because the character didn't appeal to me at all. Like my entire impression of him is from crossovers where someone like Cap or Spiderman or Daredevil cross paths, realize they have the same agenda, reluctantly team up, and the Frank kills someone and the hero freaks out. That and a few random comical I picked up that had Punisher sitting in a van scribbling in a journal before he kills some people. So yeah, count me as a fan of the adaption that gave him some nuance and humanity without really coming down on the side of him being a hero or a sane person who should be around others. I don't know if that's an accurate adaption or anything, but it's probably the only way I was going to watch 13 episodes of him.
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Jun 3, 2018 01:20
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The Punisher parts of DDs2 were loving great and. More Punisher, more Wilson Fisk, add in a dash of Bullseye please and gently caress off with The Hand and the ninja poo poo. Thank you. Jon Bernthal and D'Onofrio just absolutely loving crush every time they're on screen and I can't get enough of either of them. Charlie Cox is great also. I don't even mind Stick or Elektra but having them require The Hand to weave them into the story is a problem. DDs3, all I want is a triangulated war with DD, Punisher, Fisk and Bullseye. It's already set up perfectly. Actually, I guess that's a quadrilateral war but that's enough and all they need.
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Jun 3, 2018 02:02
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docbeard posted:When Punisher appeared in DD S2 I too was all "this guy isn't anything like the character in the comics, I'm enjoying watching him and interested in seeing more of him!" He was so much better in his own series too. It was like they realized that he can have an actual arc that isn't 100% murder.
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Jun 3, 2018 05:21
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No, sometimes there’s squinting and cocking your head slightly to the side.
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Jun 3, 2018 05:27
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https://twitter.com/LukeCage/status/1003637542846021632
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Jun 5, 2018 04:50
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yeeeeeeeeeeess
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Jun 5, 2018 04:55
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Awesome. I wonder if Colleen's presence will mean Danny is around too to set up the Heroes for Hire, or if its just a Daughters of the Dragon setup on its own.
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Jun 5, 2018 05:12
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Best part is how Colleen could have clearly handled everything herself, but was just seeing how Misty did on her own. Didn't step in until Misty was clearly overwhelmed.
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Jun 5, 2018 05:27
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STAC Goat posted:Awesome. I thought Danny was in promo stuff too.
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Jun 5, 2018 05:42
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I don't know, I've only seen this and one trailer. It was I think one of my bigger disappointments with JJ S2. After Defenders I really think they should have intermingled the worlds more. I realize that might be complicated with different showrunners and crews and stuff but the best thing that came from the Defenders was when the characters were intermingling. More stuff like Luke Cage in JJ S1 and Punisher in DD S2 is the direction I think this "franchise" should go in so Danny and Colleen in LC S2 is a good thing in my book. And based on the end of Defenders I gotta assume Danny will be in DD S3. So make that stuff feel woven together and I think it will be for the better. They don't have to be HUGE parts of the season. MCU's gotten pretty good at that just using a "crossover" character in featured, passing, or cameo roles just to make it all feel connected. And it opens up more possible creative directions.
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Jun 5, 2018 06:02
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I still think Jessica searching for Matt could've been a JJ S2 arc.
Lycus fucked around with this message at 06:10 on Jun 5, 2018 |
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Jun 5, 2018 06:06
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Bleh. I'd prefer if they didn't get Iron Fist stink on Luke Cage S2. It'll be tedious ninjas again.
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Jun 5, 2018 10:33
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STAC Goat posted:Awesome. As nice as that would be, they can't ever have their own show. I saw some chatter elsewhere that they won't call them the "Heroes for Hire" either since they already got the Defenders name.
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Jun 5, 2018 14:30
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I really, really hated Iron Fist (like everyone else it seems), and was wildly disappointed with Defenders. So I haven't made an ounce of effort to watch JJ S2 yet. Is it any good?
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Jun 5, 2018 14:57
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It's not great. Just watch the Punisher again.
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Jun 5, 2018 15:00
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It's fine.
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Jun 5, 2018 15:01
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It’s good just different. Definitely better then the IF lol
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Jun 5, 2018 15:09
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Everything is better than Iron Fist, that's a very low bar. But JJS2 is just over that bar.
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Jun 5, 2018 15:26
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I put Defenders under Iron Fist. Like at least IF had the Meachums and that one episode RZA did.
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Jun 5, 2018 15:32
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