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I'm absolutely going to be cheering in the streets when that day comes
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Jun 6, 2018 04:10
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habeasdorkus posted:When all you closet Monarchists are clamoring to join me at the barricades as Zulfiqar's Mad Son executes the Majlis for failing to bow to his lord Iblis, I'm going to shoot you in the So what you're saying is that we're set to become the setting for this universe's les miserables? I can live with that.
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Jun 6, 2018 04:14
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Personally I'm hoping that after the current crises passes and Zulfiqar says hi to Allah for us that we just kinda keep the constitutional part and do away with the monarchy part.
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Jun 6, 2018 04:23
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B. the majilis fought hard for a republic, but realpolitik trumps that. we need strong alliances, and the strong powers are all monarchies. lets keep them on our good side.
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Jun 6, 2018 04:45
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B Constitutional monarchy is a pretty good start for Vicky. We can go in any direction we want easily. Also wasn't Zulfiqar the one who noped out of becoming sultan at the end of EU4? Seems like he would be all for a very limited sultan.
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Jun 6, 2018 05:11
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everydayfalls posted:B Probably going for B as well. If we get a sultan, it'd be best to have it as mostly a ceremonial figurehead. The current vizier/sultan will probably lean this way, though who knows whether his heirs will continue the tradition, or try to push for more power.
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Jun 6, 2018 05:33
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i feel as though zulfiqar is going to be a much more dangerous king than some jizrunid rando, if for no other reason than having a name which can be leveraged to the masses with significant credibility
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Jun 6, 2018 05:52
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I just feel like with us on the backfoot it'd be good to lead with a not-too-significant concession lest we have some more odious ones forced on us. Once we're out of this conference we can reassess our position and plan our next move.
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Jun 6, 2018 06:06
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V. Illych L. posted:i feel as though zulfiqar is going to be a much more dangerous king than some jizrunid rando, if for no other reason than having a name which can be leveraged to the masses with significant credibility He'll have that whether he's the Sultan or not, on top of an successful, experienced, and loyal army. The only reason he isn't Sutlan already is because he doesn't want to be. Better to shove the crown into his extremely known quantity hands than hand it over to some ill prepared prince Palermo pushes on us.
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Jun 6, 2018 07:38
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While I wasn't here for it, I agree with the "what was the point" if we just appoint a monarch C
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Jun 6, 2018 08:08
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Jack2142 posted:While I wasn't here for it, I agree with the "what was the point" if we just appoint a monarch C That is literally the sunk cost fallacy. B
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Jun 6, 2018 09:16
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B - Yes, but we grant the crown to a more deserving king…
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Jun 6, 2018 09:50
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Innocent_Bystander posted:That is literally the sunk cost fallacy. Sorry, you should save the beep boop I am a perfectly logical android argument for Stellaris, it's not the sunk cost fallacy, it's respect for the millions who died so Andalusia could be free.
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Jun 6, 2018 10:53
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C Let's face it, the Majlis was a mess but honestly the Jizrunids were worse and the biggest mistakes of the Majlis tended to be driven by its attempts to topple kings who were genuinely insane.
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Jun 6, 2018 11:03
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Reveilled posted:Sorry, you should save the beep boop I am a perfectly logical android argument for Stellaris, it's not the sunk cost fallacy, it's respect for the millions who died so Andalusia could be free. +1
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Jun 6, 2018 11:04
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crimea posted:We're not a republic. Yet Also voting C. We have had to be on our own multiple bastard times because the great powers decided to play a game with us, so why should we bow to their demands now?
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Jun 6, 2018 11:11
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do you mean the millions who died trying to put back together the country that exploded after the legislative body voted to ruin itself to spark a revolution?
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Jun 6, 2018 11:13
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Going for B
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Jun 6, 2018 11:38
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Reveilled posted:Sorry, you should save the beep boop I am a perfectly logical android argument for Stellaris, it's not the sunk cost fallacy, it's respect for the millions who died so Andalusia could be free. A tyrant by any other name. Better a subject of the leader who reunited al-Andalus than the oligarchs who destroyed al-Andalus in their greed.
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Jun 6, 2018 12:18
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Reveilled posted:Sorry, you should save the beep boop I am a perfectly logical android argument for Stellaris, it's not the sunk cost fallacy, it's respect for the millions who died so Andalusia could be free. Al-Andalus isn’t “free” in any sense that you mean it. We barely obey the rule of law, we’re currently an oligarchy of aristocrats. That’s not much different from a monarchy to be frank.
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Jun 6, 2018 12:26
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Captain Oblivious posted:Al-Andalus isn’t “free” in any sense that you mean it. We barely obey the rule of law, we’re currently an oligarchy of aristocrats. That’s not much different from a monarchy to be frank. As a member of that aristocracy I'd say it's very different?
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Jun 6, 2018 12:29
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As a member of the Ulema I would say that we are ruled by God, and that monarchs are in place to further His will 
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Jun 6, 2018 14:27
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Somewhere between  and 
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Jun 6, 2018 14:36
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Our "republic" is a loving sham so whatever. B
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Jun 6, 2018 14:36
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Normally I'm reflexively anti-monarchist, but have you seen the majlis? It may be more likely that a monarch would open up to more democracy than these jerks. I do have to wonder about the in-world composition of the Majlis. Presumably it was really heavily slanted towards wealthy merchants and businessmen back when it went with Qadis during the fitna, but how well has it re-integrated the rest of Andalus? I'm kind of imagining it like the Long Parliament, but it went for more than twice as long. Democracy's in a bit of a weird situation in this world. For republics, there's Inca, Al-Qarbiya, and the tiny island of Suqutra, and there was Serbia, but I'm not sure if that survived. Then there's the two revolutionary states that failed in Europe, and two unaccounted for in the rest of the world that have yet to either collapse or stabilize. Are any of the monarchies around the world constitutional, or is that not really supposed to be a thing by this time period?
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Jun 6, 2018 16:09
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I think Andalus currently looks a little like how people would've regarded the Venetian Republic if it'd made it through the Napoleonic Wars without getting annexed: a bizarre relic that doesn't make monarchists or republicans happy.
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Jun 6, 2018 16:23
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Reveilled posted:Sorry, you should save the beep boop I am a perfectly logical android argument for Stellaris, it's not the sunk cost fallacy, it's respect for the millions who died so Andalusia could be free. I'm pretty sure those millions that died would've rather kept the country the same instead of dying for the Maiji's stupidity.
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Jun 6, 2018 16:43
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Hitlers Gay Secret posted:I'm pretty sure those millions that died would've rather kept the country the same instead of dying for the Maiji's stupidity. Nonsense "the Majli's stupidity" is the very core ideal of our nation, without it we are nothing.
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Jun 6, 2018 16:53
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Okay, closing the vote now, and I think it's safe to say that B has won pretty handily. Al Andalus is getting a Sultan! Part 2 will be up in a few minutes, writing it up now.
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Jun 6, 2018 18:49
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There is no county more adept at owning itself than al-Andalus.
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Jun 6, 2018 18:52
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The Congress of Cádiz Part 2: The Partition of the Tirruni Empire The Majlis al-Shura votes in favour of installing a new monarch, though not without loud protests from the more liberal factions within the assembly. The crown is offered to Raed Zulfiqar - as the man who’d suffered countless hardships in his attempt to drag Al Andalus back onto the world stage, there was no better candidate for the throne.  He was certainly better than a Jizrunid, at any rate. In the interest of avoiding hostility with the great powers, Grand Vizier Raed accepted the offer, though he guaranteed that power would largely remain with the Majlis. News of Zulfiqar accepting the crown is met with huge celebrations in Qadis, where he’s very popular amongst the working classes, and a coronation is quickly planned once the Congress reaches its end.  Meanwhile, several minor powers had taken this opportunity to present their disputes to the Congress. Greece, for example, demanded that the Peloponnese be returned to them, after it was conquered by the Berbers at the height of the Tirruni Wars. For Morocco, however, this was an open and shut case. They refused to return the peninsula, or even grant autonomy to it, instead asserting direct military rule on the Peloponnese. This decision proved unpopular with the other Congress powers, however, upsetting relations with them.  Similarly, many believed that the Russian Empire’s seizure of Constantinople was aggressive and unjust. Just like the Berbers, however, the Russians weren’t willing to surrender their conquests and hard-won influence so easily. So the Russian Empire also asserted direct rule on Constantinople, even sending a steady stream of Russian immigrants to begin repopulating the devastated city.   The Dual Monarchy of France-England was facing a similar dispute, though this one was centred around the Rhineland, which was made a puppet of France after their wars against Revolutionary Bavaria. When presented with demands for autonomy from both the Confederacy and Hannover, however, the French decided to acquiesce, albeit reluctantly. And so the Rhine Confederacy is granted autonomy, though it will remain firmly under the influence of France-England, for the time being.  Once these minor matters have been settled, the Congress turns to their first major dilemma: the Partition of the Tirruni Empire. For several days, the various great powers hears countless arguments and counter-arguments in favour of one plan or another, but when the time finally comes to settle this matter, there are only two clear options open to them… The first is to restore these conquests to their former owners, and for obvious reasons, France-England is its main advocate. There are concerns that gifting half of Occitania to France will upset the already-precarious balance of power, however, not to mention the disruption it would cause along demographic lines. The second is to set up several new kingdoms along cultural lines, carefully-sized so that none of them would be stronger than another. This plan is favoured by Hannover, who doesn’t want to see northern Italy restored to Bavaria, fearing that it would strengthen the Archduchy to the point where they could challenge them as the dominant German state once more.  The Majlis al-Shura convenes to decide what stance Al Andalus will take on the matter: Option A - Restore these territories to their former owners. Effects: France receives western Occitania; the Kingdom of Provence is restored to eastern Occitania, Provence and parts of North Italy; Bavaria’s north Italian territories are returned to them; The Papal States are restored. We receive a relations boost with France, Provence, Bavaria, Papal States. We receive a relations hit with Hannover. Option B - Set up new, strong states as neutral buffers. Effects: Occitania is formed; a smaller Provence is restored; the Kingdom of Italy is formed. We receive a relations hit with France and Bavaria. We receive a relations boost with Hannover, Occitania and Italy, and a smaller boost with Provence. Option C - Abstain from the vote. Effects: We remain neutral in this matter, so it will be decided by other powers. Our relations with other nations are unchanged. ——— So yeah, this is part 2 of the Congress, and our options are clearly laid out above. I just wanted to be clear that this vote concerns ONLY Occitania, Provence and North Italy. Catalonia and northern Iberia will be decided on in a separate vote. Also, a reminder that we (Al Andalus) will have 1 vote in this matter, alongside France, Bavaria, Hungary, Armenia, and Egypt. The great powers of Morocco, Russia and Hannover will have 2 votes apiece. So keep in mind that even if our chosen option doesn’t win overall, the relations boost/hits will still take effect, and the other powers will remember how we voted.
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Jun 6, 2018 19:02
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B Always gently caress France
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Jun 6, 2018 19:06
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A seems like the smartest choice.
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Jun 6, 2018 19:08
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A we need France in our corner when we ask for Iberia. Hannover can go suck eggs.
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Jun 6, 2018 19:09
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B no strong france plz
Zikan fucked around with this message at 01:35 on Jun 7, 2018 |
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Jun 6, 2018 19:12
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B Loath as I am to annoy France when they’re the faction we should be making friends with here, returning Italy to a mess of non-Italians ruling them is probably not a very good idea in the long run.
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Jun 6, 2018 19:13
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A Let's try to get Iberia back.
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Jun 6, 2018 19:14
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A We need to be on good terms with the other powers
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Jun 6, 2018 19:14
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A We want France as our ally against the Moroccans, and the stronger France is, the better.
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Jun 6, 2018 19:18
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B
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Jun 6, 2018 19:18
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