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But there's no way we could ensure the people wouldn't elect a Jarmak. Which is fortunate because he'd be all, "Rape? Finger or Penis? ... PBR Tall-boy?! Oof. One birthday cake and 2-4 high fives, to be meted out consecutively for all counts. That would be a fitting punishment for this so-called-crime. All in favor?" edit: whoops.
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Jun 6, 2018 22:27
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mlmp08 posted:I was pretty “gently caress this judge” until I talked to attorneys who routinely work for the most vulnerable people in society, and their general take was that while sentencing guidance is hosed up real bad in this country, scaring judges into giving more prison time to everyone is probably not for the best in noted prison-heavy nation of the USA. Except disadvantaged defendants are going to get excessive sentences anyway. And applying due process and rehabilitative sentencing guidelines only to the rich or well connected means that any wider reforms are going to get cut down at the knees.
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Jun 6, 2018 22:33
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AreWeDrunkYet posted:Except disadvantaged defendants are going to get excessive sentences anyway. And applying due process and rehabilitative sentencing guidelines only to the rich or well connected means that any wider reforms are going to get cut down at the knees. That is why I said sentencing guidance is hosed. Judges could revolt against sentencing guidance, but that can cut all kinds of ways. Hell, we have a GiP lawyer type, if he feels like weighing in.
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Jun 6, 2018 22:34
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Viva Miriya posted:How about maybe rapists shouldn't have sentences measured in months or single digit years? How about that poo poo? How many hundreds of years of people's lives are you willing to give up to get back at a judge for one lovely sentence? For a lovely sentence which was in line with what the law actually said (which is not the judges fault)? Because you're a loving fool if you've studied the criminal justice system deeper than a facebook meme and don't think that this sort of thing isn't noticed by judges all over the country. You're also a fool if you think affluent white men are going to be bearing the brunt of the lack of leniency from judges afraid of appearing soft on crime. It's *already* a major loving problem in jurisdictions with an elected judiciary.
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Jun 6, 2018 22:39
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I'm pretty comfortable with establishing the precedent that any judge that says he's being lenient because he's concerned about how going to jail for rape is going to ruin the rapist's promising swimming career should not be a judge anymore.
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Jun 6, 2018 22:39
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Internet Wizard posted:I'm pretty comfortable with establishing the precedent that any judge that says he's being lenient because he's concerned about how going to jail for rape is going to ruin the rapist's promising swimming career should not be a judge anymore. That never happened.
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Jun 6, 2018 22:41
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mlmp08 posted:That never happened. It must have. He read about it in one of those bold texted Facebook posts.
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Jun 6, 2018 22:45
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mlmp08 posted:That never happened. ...it was in his sentencing letter. quote:The judge said he thought Mr. Turner would “not be a danger to others” and expressed concern that “a prison sentence would have a severe impact” on him.
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Jun 6, 2018 22:45
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CommieGIR posted:...it was in his sentencing letter. No it isn't, by your own quote. Where is swimming career mentioned? Turner sucks. His dad is a poo poo. I think a harsher sentence would've been appropriate. I don't have to lie about circumstances to feel that way. I'm just not pumped about the precedent of recalling any judge who doesn't hammer people in criminal court. Because we all know who most often gets hammered, and this could give top-cover to hammer the poo poo out of the less privileged.
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Jun 6, 2018 22:47
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mlmp08 posted:No it isn't, by your own quote. Where is swimming career mentioned? I think at this point you guys are just kind of talking past each other. Let's meet in the middle and agree that while the judge didn't specifically mention the swimming career, he was worried that a longer sentence would have a negative impact on this poor boy who was just convicted of rape.
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Jun 6, 2018 22:49
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mlmp08 posted:No it isn't, by your own quote. Where is swimming career mentioned? I never mentioned the swimming quote. quote:But the judge said the publicity of Turner’s arrest and trial and the young man’s loss of a swimming scholarship also factored into his sentence. Turner is also required to register for life as a sex offender. Persky cited numerous letters of support friends, former teachers and employers wrote on behalf of Turner. Persky also has sentenced lightly on other cases involving sexual violence, including a domestic dispute that he gave probation that went on to commit another. mlmp08 posted:I'm just not pumped about the precedent of recalling any judge who doesn't hammer people in criminal court. Because we all know who most often gets hammered, and this could give top-cover to hammer the poo poo out of the less privileged. Then how DO we hold judges accountable?
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Jun 6, 2018 22:50
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Jarmak posted:How many hundreds of years of people's lives are you willing to give up to get back at a judge for one lovely sentence? For a lovely sentence which was in line with what the law actually said (which is not the judges fault)?  as gently caress lmao
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Jun 6, 2018 22:53
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Edit:nm
Tiny Timbs fucked around with this message at 22:57 on Jun 6, 2018 |
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Jun 6, 2018 22:55
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CommieGIR posted:Then how DO we hold judges accountable? Generally speaking, next election cycle, or via disciplinary measures if they outright violate rules/law. Recalls are often emotionally charged of-the-moment situations, whether it be a judge, administrator, legislator, governor, whatever. We have built-in elections where people can decide not to reelect someone or criminal charges and removal if they do some really bad stuff. Recalling an egregiously awful person makes sense, but a better option, rather than gambling on the next elected official would be a movement to change sentencing guidance. Presently, sentencing guidance often favors those with money, connections, reputable character references, and other things that favor the rich and more "accepted" types of people. As much as Turner's sentence is BS, the judge lays out all the sentencing guidance that leads him to make his sentence in excruciating and, frankly, disheartening detail. The sentencing guidance really does say that someone like Turner should get a light sentence, whatever my personal feelings may be. That's the real shame here. mlmp08 fucked around with this message at 23:00 on Jun 6, 2018 |
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Jun 6, 2018 22:58
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Jesus just bring Judge Dredd out. If you think a bunch of Judges are gonna be real shook because someone was lenient in a high profile case you haven't met a whole lot of Judges. Half of em do poo poo with impugnity because their constituents don't give a gently caress in the least. This instance is not going to be a game changer for CJ reform or diversionary sentencing.
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Jun 6, 2018 22:58
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It's refreshing to see a different topic to argue about 
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Jun 6, 2018 23:00
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EVA BRAUN BLOWJOBS posted:It's refreshing to see a different topic to argue about Bound together by over the common theme of White Boys Be Having Opinions 
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Jun 6, 2018 23:02
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CommieGIR posted:Persky also has sentenced lightly on other cases involving sexual violence, including a domestic dispute that he gave probation that went on to commit another. "progressive" sentencing!
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Jun 6, 2018 23:05
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CommieGIR posted:...it [swimming] was in his sentencing letter. Where? Nostalgia4Infinity posted:Bound together by over the common theme of White Boys Be Having Opinions Before I issued my hot take, I reached out to three lawyers I know, all persons of color, all of whom work at non-profits for the poor or as public defenders. They all agree that Brock Turner is a lovely person, but they also aren't fans of the idea of recalling judges who don't hand out sentences that are severe.
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Jun 6, 2018 23:08
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Nostalgia4Butts posted:In only we could just eat the rich
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Jun 6, 2018 23:10
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mlmp08 posted:Before I issued my hot take, I reached out to three lawyers I know, all persons of color, all of whom work at non-profits for the poor or as public defenders. They all agree that Brock Turner is a lovely person, but they also aren't fans of the idea of recalling judges who don't hand out sentences that are severe.  But that's not the issue at hand, the issue IS that judge are famously lenient in sexual assault/rape cases. THAT'S the issue.
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Jun 6, 2018 23:10
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CommieGIR posted:
If he is "famously" lenient on sexual assault/rape cases, I'd be interested to hear it. So far you've given one example of the judge following the admittedly hosed up CA sentencing guidelines and one other case with no source. If he's done this like a half-dozen times, yeah, gently caress him.
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Jun 6, 2018 23:12
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maybe the only people who should be concerned about this are a) rich rapists and b) judges who go light on rich rapists
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Jun 6, 2018 23:15
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How can you criticize sources when yours seem to be "my black lawyer friends" without anything to back that up?
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Jun 6, 2018 23:16
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mlmp08 posted:If he is "famously" lenient on sexual assault/rape cases, I'd be interested to hear it. So far you've given one example of the judge following the admittedly hosed up CA sentencing guidelines and one other case with no source. If he's done this like a half-dozen times, yeah, gently caress him. https://www.recallaaronpersky.com/has_judge_persky_shown_bias_before (obviously pro-recall but lol)
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Jun 6, 2018 23:17
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Proud Christian Mom posted:maybe the only people who should be concerned about this are a) rich rapists and b) judges who go light on rich rapists
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Jun 6, 2018 23:17
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mods change my name posted:How can you criticize sources when yours seem to be "my black lawyer friends" without anything to back that up? I didn't say black, I said people of color. Only one of the three was black! My source is the sentencing guidance. The sentencing guidance of CA is pretty much written to give otherwise successful, socially supported people a very light sentence in such situations. That's hosed! Like mega hosed! But if your whole take is "this judge bad" you're missing the forest for the trees in a serious way. Eliminating this judge might feel good, but it does gently caress-all to address CA's sentencing guidance.
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Jun 6, 2018 23:19
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mlmp08 posted:I didn't say black, I said people of color. Only one of the three was black! The Prosecution suggested 6 years. C'mon. For rape? That's nothing. The fact that his response was "Well, look at all these nice letters I got from his teachers and friends, and he lost his scholarship and is a sex offender. He get six months" He's shown bias before. Judges are famously lenient on sex crimes, especially for white and wealthy defendants. gently caress the judge.
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Jun 6, 2018 23:22
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I mean if gee black people being systemically hosed to the point of Kim Kardashian needs to save one by meeting loving Trump then I might give this whole sentencing guidelines thing a moments thought but im going to guess that like most places those only matter if you're white and rich so again, gently caress him. Are you one of the people who said we should get rid of democracy when Trump won? Like it or not, the people put it on a ballot and voted for it. Hell as far as I know most places don't even have recalls as a thing.
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Jun 6, 2018 23:25
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CommieGIR posted:The Prosecution suggested 6 years. C'mon. For rape? That's nothing. You are missing my point. Of course the prosecution recommended more than the judge gave. That's kinda how it works. The recommended sentence from the probationary board was a "moderate" sentence. That board literally said the entire sentence should be suspended, with just probation, which unless I'm mistaken means ZERO jail time! https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/grade-point/wp/2016/06/10/probation-officers-report-for-brock-turners-sentencing/?utm_term=.208052a6fe23 So CA's probationary board recommended, again unless I'm reading this wrong, zero jail-time and instead a suspended sentence and probation. Holy poo poo! That's hosed up! We should look into that! But the judge didn't just make that poo poo up off the top of his head. I am all for Brock Turner having done more time in jail. I just think people are being very blind to think it was just some judge rather than noticing that it's a systemic problem baked into sentencing guidelines.
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Jun 6, 2018 23:28
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If anything else, Brock Turner will probably have to hide out at daddy's house for the rest of his life.
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Jun 6, 2018 23:31
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I doubt his father’s house is far enough away from schools and parks.
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Jun 6, 2018 23:33
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Like mlmp you're normally cool and I ain't mad at you and I see your point, but this is kinda some DR type argument you're making at the moment and I wish that you'd reconsider. We want blood and to eat the rich here, not logic my friend, as it has already failed us
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Jun 6, 2018 23:33
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mods change my name posted:Like mlmp you're normally cool and I ain't mad at you and I see your point, but this is kinda some DR type argument you're making at the moment and I wish that you'd reconsider. We want blood and to eat the rich here, not logic my friend, as it has already failed us you just said DR is logic
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Jun 6, 2018 23:35
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Well you know what I mean lol
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Jun 6, 2018 23:35
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Get mad at the state legislature then? Doesn’t seem hard
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Jun 6, 2018 23:36
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why not both
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Jun 6, 2018 23:37
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mods change my name posted:Well you know what I mean lol "It makes me feel bad and I don't want to think about it beyond shouting HELP! HELP! I FEEL BAD!"
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Jun 6, 2018 23:45
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mlmp08 posted:I didn't say black, I said people of color. Only one of the three was black! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GnHf_JXugN4
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Jun 6, 2018 23:46
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Victor Vermis posted:"It makes me feel bad and I don't want to think about it beyond shouting HELP! HELP! I FEEL BAD!" No I just can't think of the particular word that DR uses to describe his "logical beliefs" that I wanted to invoke but you do you man
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Jun 6, 2018 23:47
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