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Plavski posted:right, so even though we're not getting this for another year, what's some good three kingdoms related media to get into? i could read the book, but i'm probably not gonna do that. i could also play the games, but i'm not gonna do that either. so are there tv shows or movies worth watching that go into it? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AeSMpetv34M
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Jun 6, 2018 22:59
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So many quality moments from that game https://youtu.be/XF-MDuXXiSI
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Jun 6, 2018 23:01
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Historical Liu Bei is an interesting guy. He's more or less a jackass bandit who keeps convincing people to give him land, proceeds to lose said land, and then runs away (while in the process abandoning his current wife and children).
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Jun 6, 2018 23:03
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Dynasty Warriors told me he is the coolest and noblest though??
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Jun 6, 2018 23:04
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Edgar Allen Ho posted:Dynasty Warriors told me he is https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4G_DB-WhbR4
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Jun 6, 2018 23:09
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Ze Pollack posted:you can really tell from early on that Liu Bei is the guy who's going to go on to found the next dynasty Huh?
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Jun 6, 2018 23:21
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Senor Dog posted:Huh? I might have the precise genealogy hosed up- he might just be the ancestor of whoever was the emperor when it was written- but Three Kingdoms is best understood as being in the same genre as Shakespeare's English history plays huh, weird, my patrons' ancestors were all virtuous to the point of insanity and their enemies were all a bunch of deformed psychopaths like it is an Accepted Fact of Three Kingdoms scholarship that the most commonly accepted version had at least one emperor edit the everloving poo poo out of it, including the addition of the famous "the kingdom united must divide, divided, must unite" line, which it seems was not in the original
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Jun 6, 2018 23:26
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It's a shame most of these details aren't gonna be incorporated into the game, unless they do something really new and have a narrative campaign or some poo poo. Rot3K is such a cultural touchstone for so many people but I don't know poo poo about it beyond the John Woo movie and I don't really feel like going through a hundred part Chinese drama or podcast series.
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Jun 6, 2018 23:37
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Koramei posted:It's a shame most of these details aren't gonna be incorporated into the game, unless they do something really new and have a narrative campaign or some poo poo. Rot3K is such a cultural touchstone for so many people but I don't know poo poo about it beyond the John Woo movie and I don't really feel like going through a hundred part Chinese drama or podcast series. Shus RoR Benevolent Baby Chuckers
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Jun 6, 2018 23:38
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Ze Pollack posted:I might have the precise genealogy hosed up- he might just be the ancestor of whoever was the emperor when it was written- but Three Kingdoms is best understood as being in the same genre as Shakespeare's English history plays None of Liu Bei's descendants became emperors because he lost. None of the eponymous three kingdoms won the war. Romance of the Three Kingdoms was written a thousand years after the fact while China was under Mongol rule. The later edits to the novel (not done at the behest of an emperor) were done around the time of the Manchu conquest. The portrayal of the southerners as sympathetic probably has more to do with the contemporary association with the south with the Ming holdouts - the last 'indigenous' imperial dynasty - and the north with the foreign invaders.
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Jun 7, 2018 00:01
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They have a classic historic mode, and a romantic mode. Where's the mode that has the  guitar solos?https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MS55Laq5n3U
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Jun 7, 2018 00:01
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Edgar Allen Ho posted:That specific Northumbria vassal gets autoannexed when you kill Westmoringas. Huh, so they did. It didn't even mention it happening, as far as I noticed. The mission success event for killing the Westmoringas just said my War Fevor increased 
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Jun 7, 2018 00:14
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Koramei posted:It's a shame most of these details aren't gonna be incorporated into the game, unless they do something really new and have a narrative campaign or some poo poo. Rot3K is such a cultural touchstone for so many people but I don't know poo poo about it beyond the John Woo movie and I don't really feel like going through a hundred part Chinese drama or podcast series. It's possible they could include a Warhammer style narrative including quest battles for the various leaders. It would be a departure from the historical TW norm but clearly they're willing to do that since the default mode is ahistorical anyway.
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Jun 7, 2018 00:34
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Darkrenown posted:Huh, so they did. It didn't even mention it happening, as far as I noticed. The mission success event for killing the Westmoringas just said my War Fevor increased Ya afaik the same thing happened in my ongoing campaign. It’d be nice to get a message
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Jun 7, 2018 00:42
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Mantis42 posted:None of Liu Bei's descendants became emperors because he lost. None of the eponymous three kingdoms won the war. Romance of the Three Kingdoms was written a thousand years after the fact while China was under Mongol rule. The later edits to the novel (not done at the behest of an emperor) were done around the time of the Manchu conquest. The portrayal of the southerners as sympathetic probably has more to do with the contemporary association with the south with the Ming holdouts - the last 'indigenous' imperial dynasty - and the north with the foreign invaders. I think it's also that Cao Cao's side was basically victorious until they were couped by the Sima family, and then that dynasty was a bunch of lovely rulers, so Cao Cao got blamed for them being bad. While the Jin dynasty of the Sima family ruled China, Cao Cao was presented as the hero of the story (since his own successes led to theirs), but the dynasty that succeeded them wanted to undermine the legitimacy of the Jin, so they made Cao Cao a villain, and that seemed to stick beyond their rule. Liu Bei just sort of slotted into the hero role because of his own propaganda about upholding the legacy of the Han dynasty against Cao Cao's tyranny. Dr Kool-AIDS fucked around with this message at 01:05 on Jun 7, 2018 |
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Jun 7, 2018 01:02
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I will always call him cow cow and his son cow pee.
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Jun 7, 2018 01:35
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Tomn posted:Here's another story. In the trailer, you'll notice a dude with an eyepatch bowing to Cao Cao. That's Xiahou Dun, one of Cao Cao's most important generals. Now, how did he lose his eye? Well... I swear there's a very similar story about a famous Viking. It seems like "shot in the eye with an arrow then pulled it out and ate it" is a popular shorthand for "this guy is fuckin badass"
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Jun 7, 2018 02:03
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I'm sure it's also in no small part for badassery for the story, but it's also slightly different in the Confucian context. A central tenet is filial piety, part of which includes not defiling what your parents gave you. At least in Korea this extended all the way to making a special jar to store your placenta in throughout your whole life rather than throw it away, and judging by the "essence of my father, blood of my mother" comment I think a similar logic applied to Xiahou Dun consuming his eye back in the Han Dynasty. Or in the Qing or whenever that part was written.
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Jun 7, 2018 02:13
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Captain Beans posted:So many quality moments from that game Still better voice acting than DW9.
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Jun 7, 2018 02:21
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Koramei posted:It's a shame most of these details aren't gonna be incorporated into the game, unless they do something really new and have a narrative campaign or some poo poo. Rot3K is such a cultural touchstone for so many people but I don't know poo poo about it beyond the John Woo movie and I don't really feel like going through a hundred part Chinese drama or podcast series. That hundred part Chinese drama is one of the finest series I've had the pleasure of watching, though you'll really be fine only seeing like 30-40 episodes since if memory serves that goes all the way up to Red Cliffs.
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Jun 7, 2018 02:44
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Between Rome 2 and Attila, Rome 2 has the more varied unit/faction roster, right?
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Jun 7, 2018 02:55
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Faction wise it's without a doubt Rome 2, but in terms of units maybe actually not. They got a hell of a lot more experimental with the Attila units, so you get stuff like rapid fire slingers and stealth Celts, while still having hellenistic-style pikes despite the anachronisticness of it. Attila armies all look a whole lot more similar than Rome 2 ones did, but mechanically they can be more varied. The horse archers are way, way better too.HerpicleOmnicron5 posted:That hundred part Chinese drama is one of the finest series I've had the pleasure of watching, though you'll really be fine only seeing like 30-40 episodes since if memory serves that goes all the way up to Red Cliffs. I mean, thirty or forty hours is still uh. Maybe someday.
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Jun 7, 2018 02:59
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Koramei posted:I mean, thirty or forty hours is still uh. Maybe someday. Yeah, that is fair. But it's a drat good watch. A shame Netflix only grabbed the mediocre series that followed it about the founding of the Han dynasty. Couldn't really get into it, even though it was moderately interesting to see the events that were constantly referred to in Three Kingdoms.
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Jun 7, 2018 03:06
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One of my favourite units is the Archers w/ Wardogs that Aksum gets. Aksum probably has one of the most unique rosters in Attila and is one of the most fun factions in general. All the Empires of Sand factions are pretty great. But yeah, Rome 2 has a lot more variety in factions, but there are very few units that are unique to each, though each culture has its own set and some border factions (Pontus, Seleucids or Massilia, for example) draw from multiple cultural pots.
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Jun 7, 2018 03:13
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The one thing about Attila is that a lot of the non-DLC armies are "generic Germanic something-something" which contributes to a bit of the samey-ness of it. The DLC factions have much more interesting rosters.
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Jun 7, 2018 03:24
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The patch really made Thrones more interesting. Had to quell some really bothersome rebellions as Wessex; the pre-patch experience was much easier.
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Jun 7, 2018 15:00
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https://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2018-06-07-hands-on-with-the-romantic-battles-of-total-war-three-kingdoms Unfff this sounds incredible Eurogamer posted:Leaning even further into the emphasis on characters in the romance mode is the introduction of Duels - strictly one-on-one wushu combat between two opposing generals. At just about any time, you can select any combat-based general in battle and click the "Duel" button to bring up options of duellable enemy commanders. Select one - in this case my only option was Lu Bu - and they'll run off to face them. Nearby warriors will clear off, and the camera will zoom into a kind of cinematic showdown. You can affect this by pressing any active abilities that your commander might have, and by weakening the opponent first in standard combat, but from what I saw that's about it - once they're locked in combat it's a fight to the death (or someone running away), and it can be absolutely decisive.
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Jun 7, 2018 17:33
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So, some game news sites have their pre-E3 articles up for Three Kingdoms. CA's been showing off a demo featuring the Battle of Xiapi. https://www.cgmagonline.com/2018/06/07/total-war-three-kingdoms-e3-2018-preview/ https://www.usgamer.net/articles/total-war-three-kingdoms-e3-2018-preview https://venturebeat.com/2018/06/07/how-total-war-three-kingdoms-balances-historical-accuracy-and-cultural-authenticity/ Game has a dueling system for the characters. Here's some pretty pictures:   
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Jun 7, 2018 17:41
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ninjahedgehog posted:Duel stuff No, not Total Warhammer, I'm talking about notable disappointment, Mark of Chaos.
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Jun 7, 2018 17:48
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I miss that game I miss the loading screens for loading screens
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Jun 7, 2018 17:49
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Hopefully they bring back the Shogun 2 animations where swords and spears actually clash and every kill is a sync kill, as opposed to Warhammer where for the most part dudes just wave their weapons around and people die. Should be doable, now that everyone is just a normal human again and there aren't as many animation rigs to sync up.
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Jun 7, 2018 17:52
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Oh hey, I missed one: https://www.pcgamer.com/5-big-changes-coming-to-total-war-three-kingdoms/quote:Creative Assembly is using Luo Guanzhong's The Romance of the Three Kingdoms as inspiration, bending—not breaking—the history to suit a mythical interpretation of the battles and leaders that fought them. Hero units work a bit like they did in the Warhammer games, signified by single, powerful units that can tear up entire armies. Based on 11 warlords from the era, they're paired with some special abilities and passive buffs/debuffs meant for pointed tactical use, especially directly against one another.
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Jun 7, 2018 17:52
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Mantis42 posted:So, some game news sites have their pre-E3 articles up for Three Kingdoms. CA's been showing off a demo featuring the Battle of Xiapi. nice, looks like the units are quite large too. honestly I'm just hyped to have a historical game in an actually good, modern engine! ninjahedgehog posted:https://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2018-06-07-hands-on-with-the-romantic-battles-of-total-war-three-kingdoms This will be cool as long as they update the animation system so they actually fight, watching 2 commanders fight in warhammer is kinda stupid looking lol, a bunch of waving swords and not much happening then very rarely a cool kill animation
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Jun 7, 2018 17:56
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ninjahedgehog posted:https://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2018-06-07-hands-on-with-the-romantic-battles-of-total-war-three-kingdoms It's an extremely long shot, but I'm kinda hoping they'll backport that system to Total Warhammer. Maybe for part 3?
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Jun 7, 2018 18:18
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ninjahedgehog posted:Hopefully they bring back the Shogun 2 animations where swords and spears actually clash and every kill is a sync kill, as opposed to Warhammer where for the most part dudes just wave their weapons around and people die. It’s funny to hear two posts asking for this since again matched combat animations like this were something people incessantly bitched about in Shogun 2 and Rome 2.
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Jun 7, 2018 18:25
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Mordja posted:Oh hey, the Warhammer game had that. Also Warhammer the tabletop game had just that. Which led to hilarious stuff bc poo poo like dragon mounts get to participate in “one on one” duels. Is there an option to have your character turn down the duel and get the hell out of dodge? Seems dumb to consign a non-combat character to death by duel because Lu Bu looked at them. Obviously this should carry morale penalties for the troops.
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Jun 7, 2018 18:29
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Edgar Allen Ho posted:Is there an option to have your character turn down the duel and get the hell out of dodge? Seems dumb to consign a non-combat character to death by duel because Lu Bu looked at them. Obviously this should carry morale penalties for the troops. Koei has this exact mechanic in all of their RotTK games (Warriors, Kessen, RotTK strategy), so yeah hopefully CA copies it.
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Jun 7, 2018 18:32
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Koramei posted:It’s funny to hear two posts asking for this since again matched combat animations like this were something people incessantly bitched about in Shogun 2 and Rome 2. Matched combat animations are terrible and anyone who asks for them is a terrible person. On a more serious note, it's just not feasible to make it look good beyond the first 20 seconds as you will quickly see 300 guys repeating the exact same animations over and over again. It also led to buggy unit behavior as you might order a unit to move, but one of its guys is stuck in an animation and bugs out. Instead of spending time making the 1000+ unique animations needed to have a reasonable amount of repetition, the warhammer approach works much better. Note this is only for units, matched animations are fine for heroes.
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Jun 7, 2018 18:40
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Dramicus posted:Matched combat animations are terrible and anyone who asks for them is a terrible person. On a more serious note, it's just not feasible to make it look good beyond the first 20 seconds as you will quickly see 300 guys repeating the exact same animations over and over again. It also led to buggy unit behavior as you might order a unit to move, but one of its guys is stuck in an animation and bugs out. Instead of spending time making the 1000+ unique animations needed to have a reasonable amount of repetition, the warhammer approach works much better. Warhammer kinda takes this approach already, except instead of heroes, it’s mainly the big monsters with matched animation. Three Kingdoms having that but for the characters seems perfect.
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Jun 7, 2018 18:41
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Dramicus posted:Matched combat animations are terrible and anyone who asks for them is a terrible person. On a more serious note, it's just not feasible to make it look good beyond the first 20 seconds as you will quickly see 300 guys repeating the exact same animations over and over again. It also led to buggy unit behavior as you might order a unit to move, but one of its guys is stuck in an animation and bugs out. Instead of spending time making the 1000+ unique animations needed to have a reasonable amount of repetition, the warhammer approach works much better. Yeah and the matched animations meant that you couldn't have 2v1 or 3v1 fights right? Every fight turned into a bunch of locked one-on-one duels while the animations played out, while it should be about teamwork and formation fighting instead. In a real fight, if you are standing in the middle of a big formation, the biggest threat is not the enemy right in front of you. You can easily parry or block his attacks, since he's the one you're paying attention to the most. The biggest threat is the enemy two ranks down the line, since he can look over and see you distracted by the guy in front of you, and then he can reach over with his long spear and jab you in the face while you're not looking. In a TW game though, not having the matched animations makes flanking much more important than just the morale penalty applied to the whole unit being flanked. It makes you have to watch out for the corners of your formations, because the guy in the corner might be facing 3 guys at once, and you will start having guys stabbed in the back. The battles become more dynamic and it makes it more important to have a solid, steady line instead of battles being determined only by the individual unit stats.
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