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Can Sombra just EMP Sym's ult barrier away? That'd be pretty nasty assuming there were other things nearby worth EMPing also.
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Jun 6, 2018 17:41
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I'm picturing the other Symmetra charging her gun on the barrier, and incinerating the entire enemy team when it goes down.
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Jun 6, 2018 17:57
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I Said No posted:Can Sombra just EMP Sym's ult barrier away? That'd be pretty nasty assuming there were other things nearby worth EMPing also. I saw Fareeha on stream today playing as Sym, she was in the middle of placing the wall while she got EMP'd and the wall still placed... but that's a small sample size. I'm not 100% sure.
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Jun 6, 2018 18:31
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I Said No posted:Can Sombra just EMP Sym's ult barrier away? That'd be pretty nasty assuming there were other things nearby worth EMPing also. yes. ult is also super buggy right now, if you place it over the payload theres a high chance it will just delete itself immediately.
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Jun 6, 2018 19:19
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I tried new Sym and like her, but for some reason I can't use my own teleporters, regardless of which one I go into. Also kinda surprise they took away the rolling shield, as it would be useful still.
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Jun 6, 2018 19:21
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Teleporter use is bound to whatever your "acknowledge" key is, which is F by default, but you might have it bound to something else.
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Jun 6, 2018 19:23
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Supercar Gautier posted:Teleporter use is bound to whatever your "acknowledge" key is, which is F by default, but you might have it bound to something else. F is my quick melee button.
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Jun 6, 2018 19:24
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I bound R to voice line on characters who don't reload, and it hosed up my ability to place the breach in Retribution I wish it didn't work like that
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Jun 6, 2018 19:39
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the worst part about the symm rework is figuring out what the hell key i'm going to bind acknowledge to
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Jun 6, 2018 19:40
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d0grent posted:yes. As far as I can tell, the point of origin for the wall has to be stable ground or it just won't appear and your ult will be wasted. If you try to place it, say, looking over a ledge, it just won't appear. It's wonky since it's different than the other barriers. It literally does go on forever. It's not just a big wall, if you look into the distance it'll go off into the distance to where you can't see it anymore.
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Jun 6, 2018 20:01
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Rirse posted:F is my quick melee button. Time to find a place to bind that button! Or alternatively blizzard could just... make it like it was with the previous teleport. You know, just let people walk in.
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Jun 6, 2018 20:32
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I understand why they did it, though; Symm will now be throwing down teleporters in the middle of a fight all the time and you probably don't want to take it on accident.
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Jun 6, 2018 20:58
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megane posted:I understand why they did it, though; Symm will now be throwing down teleporters in the middle of a fight all the time and you probably don't want to take it on accident. I'm taking it on purpose and I'm hitting charge as soon as I step out of it and turning that Widow who thinks she's safe on highground into a fine paste.
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Jun 6, 2018 21:02
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you can force a torb turret to go somewhere else with the tp. If its a KOTH map, you can have him build it somewhere safe and then tp the turret to where it can see the point.
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Jun 6, 2018 21:48
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Ginette Reno posted:I'm taking it on purpose and I'm hitting charge as soon as I step out of it and turning that Widow who thinks she's safe on highground into a fine paste. You can actually charge through the tele. You just press F midcharge when you're over it. You maintain speed and direction so you can line it up and trickshot that Widow and generate 25% more complaints about how Sym is totally broken now.
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Jun 6, 2018 21:54
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Kinda wish they kept M2 as piercing instead of exploding but kept the other improvements. A lot of things in the game explode but it was the only projectile that just went through things.
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Jun 7, 2018 02:32
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Whitenoise Poster posted:Kinda wish they kept M2 as piercing instead of exploding but kept the other improvements. A lot of things in the game explode but it was the only projectile that just went through things. Firestrike.
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Jun 7, 2018 02:47
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Lol - there is currently an issue with Symmetra's M1 on PTR where, if you macro it to turn on and off very fast, or even wiggle your crosshair across the target very fast, it retains ramp-up and does a full damage tick each time. Footage of it in action: https://gfycat.com/PaltryGlamorousImago
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Jun 7, 2018 06:09
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belt posted:I love Mystery Heroes, it's pretty much all I play unless I'm playing with friends. It's chill and fun. I have given up on quickplay and comp, this is the only mode for me because if i or the team sucks its bad RNG..... Seriously I joined a game we had 3 Mercys, a genji a lucio and a widowmaker, they had 2 reins, 2 orisa, a Zarya and a Bastion
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Jun 7, 2018 09:14
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dogstile posted:That last point is all entirely you though. The beam length on these heroes isn't nothing, its fairly long, moira's when it came out got lots of backlash because "she can loving take down pharah, man!". I just want to bring this back, because this is absolutely not 'entirely me'. The straight beams provide far less visual feedback of range than any other tool in the game, and require much more knowledge by the player of just what ranges they're effective at. Something Overwatch is generally quite good at is visually describing in a very easy to understand way the effective ranges and threats of abilities. You use an M1 or M2 and you can tell, in basically one second, just how you use this tool to hurt people. 'Oh okay, this is a hitscan weapon, click things and they die and most any distance'. 'These grenades bounce around and eventually explode, and move in predictable arcs'. 'This is a melee weapon, I should use it on up-close things'. All, that is, except for the beams. I just took a bunch of pictures in the firing range to articulate this, but you basically don't know how long the range is at a glance, because all of them look like they're disappearing at the center point of your crosshair despite every single one having a different range. Here, have Sym's M1 (and forgive the quality, Imgur apparently didn't like me sending PNGs this big):  Can you tell me, at a glance, if Sym could turn and hit those bots? I can only tell you because I took these pictures ten minutes ago. She can hit their near turret-arms, none of the rest of their body. Now how about Zarya?  Now, how close am I to actually reaching the far wall with this laser? Both Sym and Zarya's beams terminate at the crosshair dot, but Zarya's is longer, so that doesn't tell you anything. And honestly neither could I, I think that one might actually be hitting that wall. At Zarya's maximum range the little particle effect for shooting a wall is real hard to discern. And Moira, the one with the most devastating range of all? Her beam is wider, but no better at articulating where it stops.  Is she hitting that bot? If not, how close is she? Nowhere near, actually, I had to pass that 'A3' sign on the wall before it started ticking. The autotarget beams from Live Sym and Moira's M2 are similarly vague, but they at least do the job of aiming for you, making internalizing their effective range a much easier prospect, and in fact most of the battle in using them effectively. Even then, I've actually found myself underestimating their range--quite vastly so, in Moira's case. The straight beams ask you to aim, but give you no direct feedback about how long your actual range is. Your enemies can tell, though, which puts someone trying to figure that out at a distinct disadvantage in understanding the situation. For a game that's usually very clear about its base mechanics, this is a weird jump in expectations that doesn't make a whole lot of sense, that you straight-up can't tell how far your main weapon/ulti can reach unless you feel it out for an extended period, and even then you're going to need more time to really reflexively tell its range. I don't know how to solve this design-wise, if it's even possible (my reflexive idea is to have them terminate in a bulb of some kind like Dragon Ball beams to give them some sort of 'body', but I'm not sure how much that'd do), but it's a weird bump for a game that's otherwise so good at presenting its mechanics. Cleretic fucked around with this message at 13:51 on Jun 7, 2018 |
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Jun 7, 2018 13:47
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I've always thought Roadhog's alt fire is hard to gauge distance with
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Jun 7, 2018 13:52
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It would help a lot if there were a much bigger and more obvious visual effect when your beam is actually hitting someone. There's a little particle explosion, a slightly different noise, and of course the little white X, but it needs to be much clearer.
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Jun 7, 2018 13:55
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Sorry dude, but if you are having problems with it and there are people who are not (me, i play beam characters a lot) then the problem is on you to practice with the beam so you know the range. If you are relying entirely on staring at the end point of the beam to discern range, you have way bigger problems than "i can't tell the range". It comes down to practice, you need to do it more. It took me a long time to learn Zarya's range, but I learned them. Even then in game its not actually that much of an issue. Stand one step closer. E: In fact, lets look at this a different way. If you can't tell with beams, how can you tell what soldiers fall off damage point is? Macaluso posted:I've always thought Roadhog's alt fire is hard to gauge distance with I actually think its harder because if you fire that too close you still get a hitmarker. You have to really pay attention for a lot of games to get it down. dogstile fucked around with this message at 13:58 on Jun 7, 2018 |
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Jun 7, 2018 13:55
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dogstile posted:E: In fact, lets look at this a different way. If you can't tell with beams, how can you tell what soldiers fall off damage point is? Well, I should say that I don't play Soldier much at all, so I honestly am not aware of that falloff or where exactly it starts. But at least if you're hitting outside that range, you're still hitting something and it's still giving you feedback of that, even if you're not doing much; in fact, you'll see that you're not doing much by the HP bar over their head. You end up outside your range with Zarya or Sym, you get absolutely nothing except that you look like an idiot. You try to shoot outside your range with Moira, you look like an idiot AND you just blew your ulti. I've been perfectly happy to not play Zarya, too, since every time I've tried I've not hit a goddamn thing, looked like an idiot and died. Moira's not so bad, because I agree her range is pretty far and I don't have to use it all that often, but there are reasons she didn't eclipse Lucio as my go-to healer. And if they were going to introduce another straight-beam hero I would've been happy to let them do it, because I don't have to like every hero (the same reason I have maybe forty seconds total playtime as Brigitta). But they instead replaced my favorite hero and my favorite M1 with something that I find total garbage, and that makes me give a poo poo about how bad these are, because I'm expected to use and like it. Also I totally forgot about Roadhog's alt fire, I don't think I've ever done any damage with that thing. megane posted:It would help a lot if there were a much bigger and more obvious visual effect when your beam is actually hitting someone. There's a little particle explosion, a slightly different noise, and of course the little white X, but it needs to be much clearer. I literally can't tell if you're being sarcastic, because this actually is my view. I don't feel like I hit anybody with those beams, especially not in the heat of battle, and have straight up never noticed 'the little white X' when playing any character at all, including when I'm doing well. And I can't really tell what I'm doing wrong, because they don't have enough shape to them for me to easily get an idea of their position in space. So I suppose what I need isn't so much feedback when I am hitting things with those beams, and more feedback about why I'm not.
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Jun 7, 2018 14:49
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dogstile posted:Sorry dude, but if you are having problems with it and there are people who are not (me, i play beam characters a lot) then the problem is on you to practice with the beam so you know the range. Yeah I don't even look at the beam's end or whatever when I play Zarya. I just know from practicing her how much range I've got with the beam. I don't rely on visual cues for that. You just get to a point playing her where you don't even think about it and you know exactly when beam is appropriate and when it's not.
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Jun 7, 2018 15:14
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I mean, it's not like better visual/audio cues for whether the beam is hitting anything would make things worse in any way.
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Jun 7, 2018 15:25
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Rand Brittain posted:I mean, it's not like better visual/audio cues for whether the beam is hitting anything would make things worse in any way. No, but it's not like Zarya is all that difficult to learn without them. Nobody who mains her or plays her regularly sits there wondering if their beam can hit a target or not. You just know after a while.
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Jun 7, 2018 15:35
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Just have the beam change color when it's doing damage. Slightly different shade, or completely different color (red-doing damage, blue-no damage).
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Jun 7, 2018 15:38
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Have Zarya shout "I am hitting you with my beam!" for as long as she is hitting someone with her beam. For the sake of clarity she should be shouting "I am not hitting you with my beam!" whenever she is not doing damage.
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Jun 7, 2018 15:58
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I've always wanted her to have a pretty large shower of welder sparks flying off when the beam is on someone.
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Jun 7, 2018 16:01
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you get a hit marker when you do damage. idk what more you need to see
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Jun 7, 2018 16:22
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It is pretty annoying to learn the range. I have enough hours on Zarya that I just know how far away I can hit someone, and it's not a problem for me now. But I tried new Sym briefly on the PTR and all that internalizing of Zarya's range is loving me up. I have no idea where I need to be to hit other than "right in their loving face like I want to smell their breath."
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Jun 7, 2018 16:31
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Cleretic posted:Well, I should say that I don't play Soldier much at all, so I honestly am not aware of that falloff or where exactly it starts. But at least if you're hitting outside that range, you're still hitting something and it's still giving you feedback of that, even if you're not doing much; in fact, you'll see that you're not doing much by the HP bar over their head This also happens with beam heroes, dude. If not hitting, no bar. If hitting, bar. If anything hitscan is worse because you get positive feedback *tick* "i've hit something" rather than nothing.
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Jun 7, 2018 17:36
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Guys, what happened to the inhouse game finder thread? how come it's locked? I want to play some in house games :'(. Also who is saintv77?
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Jun 7, 2018 18:04
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Wicked Them Beats posted:Have Zarya shout "I am hitting you with my beam!" for as long as she is hitting someone with her beam. For the sake of clarity she should be shouting "I am not hitting you with my beam!" whenever she is not doing damage. That is not nearly clear enough. How are you supposed to know WHO she is hitting with her beam, if she is the one saying it? What they should do is have the enemy player that is being hit with the beam continuously shout "ouch, you are hitting me with your beam" and have all of the enemy players NOT being hit by the beam shout "You are not hitting me with your beam"
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Jun 7, 2018 18:09
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Big Mean Jerk posted:No Limits is good and cool because that’s how the game was originally. I pity anyone who never experienced going full ape and having 6 Winstons leap over the first wall on King’s Row or Anubis. I didn't have the game back then, but I can only imagine the pure joy it must have been to run a 6 bastion comp on defense back when he was OP
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Jun 7, 2018 18:14
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Isn't Moira's weapon a straight beam hidden behind a lock-on visual? That feels a lot easier to gauge how well you're attacking something; maybe Zarya's and Symmetra's could work similarly, so you have the (pretty slight with that width) curve of the beam to help place it in the world. I agree they don't communicate well; with both hitscan bullet visuals and obviously projectiles you have something moving through the geometry relative to you to give you a sense of place, while the beam weapons might as well just be a sticker on your crosshair.
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Jun 7, 2018 18:15
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I can't tell how far any beam thingies go either but I assume if I sat there and played nothing but Teleporter Witch for 20 days I would eventually have some sense for it. In practice I just spray in the bad guys' general direction until I see their health bar, then I know I am hitting them.
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Jun 7, 2018 18:28
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Why would we want good game design and features, when we could just "play a whole bunch" instead to compensate? Mystery beam range is a stupid feature.
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Jun 7, 2018 19:34
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The obvious solution here is just to play Junkrat, which is coincidentally always a good choice.
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Jun 7, 2018 19:38
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