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PMush Perfect posted:A real one, not what we got with the name. I try to forget about the one that came out recently. Forgot about Syndicate. We really do need and updated version of that. Satellite Reign was close, but it felt like it was missing something. waah posted:All I gotta say about Paradox and HBS, is that thanks to this thread I had no idea how badly I wanted a Shadowrun game set in North America so I can see all this crazy stuff about Aztechnology. That would be one very bleak Shadowrun game. mauman fucked around with this message at 23:03 on Jun 6, 2018 |
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Jun 6, 2018 22:46
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Didn't the Shadowrun timeline start several years ago so it's technically in the future of an alternative world/parallel universe and not just the future? I remember reading that somewhere. They got the collectors edition with all the magic, trolls and affordable cyberware and we just got the regular dystopia.mauman posted:That would be one very bleak Shadowrun game. 
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Jun 6, 2018 23:21
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Poil posted:Didn't the Shadowrun timeline start several years ago so it's technically in the future of an alternative world/parallel universe and not just the future? I remember reading that somewhere. They got the collectors edition with all the magic, trolls and affordable cyberware and we just got the regular dystopia. The videos from Green Winters included a news report about Feuerschwinge waking up that was dated 2012, I believe, so yeah, by this point Shadowrun has officially Branched Off From Reality.
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Jun 6, 2018 23:25
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Shadowrun's an alternate universe basically from the second the 1st edition came out in the '80s. If you look at a timeline of the end of the 20th century pre-Awakening, there are some very different world events leading up to the return of magic.
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Jun 6, 2018 23:42
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Fighting Trousers posted:Shadowrun's an alternate universe basically from the second the 1st edition came out in the '80s. If you look at a timeline of the end of the 20th century pre-Awakening, there are some very different world events leading up to the return of magic. 9 years ago I'd have said it was ludicrously dystopian, but... can you imagine the type of non-compete contracts even non extraterritorial corporations can get away with in the 2070s? Binding arbitration on any consumer product complaint AND any employee complaint is probably with the corps own in house arbitration board, and no right to appeal to an actual court. Plenty of work still for lawyers, at least.  Poil posted:Didn't the Shadowrun timeline start several years ago so it's technically in the future of an alternative world/parallel universe and not just the future? I remember reading that somewhere. They got the collectors edition with all the magic, trolls and affordable cyberware and we just got the regular dystopia. The big Supreme Court cases enabling corps to become so gigantic happened in the 1990s and early 2000s in the SR universe. They really missed having Breyer and Ginsburg appointed to replace Blackmun and White. habeasdorkus fucked around with this message at 23:52 on Jun 6, 2018 |
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Jun 6, 2018 23:49
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Poil posted:Didn't the Shadowrun timeline start several years ago so it's technically in the future of an alternative world/parallel universe and not just the future? I remember reading that somewhere. They got the collectors edition with all the magic, trolls and affordable cyberware and we just got the regular dystopia. Fighting Trousers posted:Shadowrun's an alternate universe basically from the second the 1st edition came out in the '80s. If you look at a timeline of the end of the 20th century pre-Awakening, there are some very different world events leading up to the return of magic. There was supposed to be a massive quake hitting Manhattan in 2005 that wiped out most of the city so badly that the Federal government wrote the Island off and moved the stock exchange to Boston, plus 9/11 and its aftermath never happening; the Resource Rush opening up most federal parkland and native reservations to increased mining in the mid 2000s (but with how Pruitt is handling the EPA and Zinke Interior, that might have only been delayed a decade and a half); Hong Kong never fully becomes intergrated with China despite the handover in 1997 and using British business and diplomatic interests declares itself an independent Free Enterprise Zone a couple years later; Japan re-flexes its economic muscle with the beginnings of the Japanocorps and them goading South Korea into militarily going for unification in the mid 2000s which is successful after a couple of North Korean nukes launched towards Japan fail to detonate and lays the foundation for the redeclaration of the Japanese Imperial State especially after the Japanocorps get fat contracts to (re)build up NK's infrastructure and industry after reunification; the Soviet Union never officially fell in the 90s as the hardliners reasserted control only to fall a couple decades later; the first successful implantation of a functional cyber hand to a virtuoso violinist who lost hers in a freak accident but regained almost complete range of function with it, and of course, the beginning of the Awakening in 2012 starting with UGE (Unexplained Genetic Expression, basically the original term for the first Elves and Dwarfs being born) and spike babies (Elves born just before the Awakening officially happens) and Goblinization starting next year in like 2019. Dragons start showing up soon after when Ryumo is spotted flying around Mt Fuji, and with all those attendant after effects of them waking up like what happens in Germany and Tehran and Sirrugg downing a passenger plane over the Atlantic; VITAS hits next decade; China begins its break up after it's nuke stockpile gets buried in an earthquake attributed to the Great Dragon Lung waking up and throwing off his rust; and the beginnings of the Sovereign American Indian Movement, the later roundup of AmerInds to reeducation (read:concentration) camps in the US and Canada followed by the Great Ghost Dance, and things generally start falling apart into the hyper corporate dystopia of Shadowrun we know and love to hate from the shadows. GhostStalker fucked around with this message at 01:00 on Jun 7, 2018 |
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Jun 7, 2018 00:49
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sebmojo posted:So they have an unused high end PnP ip... and they just bought a hot studio with experience in turning PnP ip into great games, you say? Oh, it's being used, just in a dumb way. It's essentially the pet project of a guy who wants to return to the glorious 90s EuroLARP scene and ignoring the last 20 years of change in the tabletop gaming scene. Like, including socially. They released some teaser phone games which were... not great. The 5th edition of Vampire the Masquerade was announced and is pretty far along in production and the actual rules design is fine, but the writing, well,  Games formerly in the 'new World of Darkness' (such as Vampire the Requiem, Promethean the Created, etc) are rebranded to 'Chronicles of Darkness' to make branding clearer. These are still developed by Onyx Path studios, under license from White Wolf. They're actually good.
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Jun 7, 2018 01:13
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https://twitter.com/shutupmikeginn/status/403359911481839617?lang=en
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Jun 7, 2018 01:23
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What the actual gently caress. That’s a “most common” question?
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Jun 7, 2018 01:36
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MagusofStars posted:What the actual gently caress. Back when they first announced new games there was a Q&A, and one of the questions put forward ironically was "Will werewolves still be crypto-fascist eco-terrorists?" highlighting one of the tone issues of the line as it went on. The answer was unironically "Yes, it'll be all the great stuff you remember!" Basically the old World of Darkness was 'woke' in an extremely early to mid 90s way by American white dudes. Like, the Irish werewolves loved drinking all the time, the Italian vampires were mafiosos, and there was both a gypsy vampire clan and a book published called Gypsies about how actual gypsies gained magic powers from their gypsy blood. All the good stuff you remember from the Bloodlines game was part of how the line matured over time (and even then, remember you have the Yellow Peril Chinese vampires because Asian people have Asian souls and their own afterlife), and so you can still get all that good stuff without most of the awfulness with the Chronicles of Darkness instead. By the line developer's (or as he calls it, 'Lead Storyteller') wishes, the upcoming World of Darkness is an intentional throwback to... all that. Because that's how he liked it in his 90s EuroLARP days. bewilderment fucked around with this message at 02:38 on Jun 7, 2018 |
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Jun 7, 2018 02:19
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I liked how there was that one Kuei-Jin in Bloodlines who was more or less normal and was like "Big shock, we're not all Qipao wearing weirdos"
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Jun 7, 2018 02:32
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GhostStalker posted:(Shiawase involved the now megacorp branching out from Japan when their Atomics subsidiary sued over not being able to get a license for operating a plant from the Nuclear Regulatory Agency or Department of Energy in the US, and won them extraterritoriality for some reason since apparently multinational corporations functioned like sovereign governments in their complexity, I dunno; That's not quite what happened. Shiawase opened the largest aluminum manufacturing plant in the world in California. The power required to run the place drove electricity prices in Cali up by 550%. They realize that this was hosed up and decided to build a small nuclear reactor to power the place and stop loving over the local economy. They got all the necessary licenses and experts, but the Nuclear Regulatory Commission blocked the construction on the grounds that it wasn't in the public interest due to it neither being a commercial venture, nor a research reactor. Shiawase challenged this in court, cutting the NRC off at the knees by being completely open and transparent about everything involved, and successfully argued before the Supreme Court that the NRC was effectively overreaching their authority by interfering in the aluminum market, since without the reactor they would have to either shut down the factory or keep driving up electricity prices, neither of which were in the government's interests. Not only did the supreme court agree, they also blocked several other demands from the NRC as unreasonable, including requiring that Shiawase keep members of the local police on site as part of the security force protecting the plant. The court case was extremely high profile, making the Shiawase Reactor front page news across the world Soon after the completion of the plant an ecoterrorist group by the name of TerraFirst! was looking for a good target and decided that destroying the nations most famous nuclear reactor and scattering radioactive materials across the countryside would do*. The team that attacked the reactor was equipped with military grade weapons and enough explosives to breach the reactor housing. Nevertheless they were spotted as they entered the containment zone and all died before making to the actual buildings. Still the NRC used it as another excuse to go after Shiawase, charging them with criminal negligence and reckless endangerment for not maintaining adequate security measures. This backfired even harder than the first time. Shiawase not only proved before the supreme court that their security could handle an assault team three times larger than the TerraFirst! group, but that the only reason it was that weak was government interference. Starting with the fact that the only reason the team made it into the containment zone was because the NRC forced them to maintain completely separate security systems between the manufacturing plant and the reactor and going onto dozens of other regulations. Using the first court decision Shiawase then argued that legally they were responsible for the security of the reactor, and that according to other Supreme Court decisions the government only had the ability to restrict the liberties of private companies "to protect security, health, morals and the welfare of the people" and that as the regulations were in fact decreasing the security, health, and welfare of the people, they could not possibly be legal. And therefor the only possible choices were for the Supreme Court to either order the shut down of all nuclear reactors in the U.S., or to give their owners full freedom to arrange for the security of said reactors. After weeks of deliberation the Supreme Court agreed in a split decision, even extending the ruling to cover chemicals, waste processing, armaments and services related to national security, water and food supplies, and hospitals as these were essential to the welfare of the people. With that foothold gained is wasn't long before the Corporations managed to turn "able to take any means they choose to ensure the security of the location", into "full control over all aspects of the location", and finally into full extraterritoriality. * Any claims that Shiawase conspired with several other corporations to instigate this attack are completely spurious, as there is no evidence whatsoever that this occurred** ** Possibly because all of the evidence was gathered in the TerraFirst! california headquarters when it came down with a sudden and unexpected case of firebombs***. *** This is generally considered to have been the first true shadowrun. Stroth fucked around with this message at 05:01 on Jun 7, 2018 |
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Jun 7, 2018 04:21
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It's also good to keep in mind that the world of Shadowrun has many of our problems taken to extremes, like the fact that you need a million dollars to run for office or that literally every politician is beholden to donor money. I mean, it's crazy to think that a company would ever get extraterritoriality, or that any armed group of any size would even get close to a nuclear reactor, but it's good storying.
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Jun 7, 2018 04:37
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Stroth posted:*** This is generally considered to have been the first true shadowrun. It got the corp what it wanted and it screwed over the runners who ran the op. Appropriate.
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Jun 7, 2018 04:41
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The best part about the early awakening is a lot of the terror and confusion was taken out of it when the Great Dragon Dunkelzahn woke up near Denver and immediately gave a twelve-hour interview on live TV where he explained that magic was coming back. He was the best dragon.
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Jun 7, 2018 04:53
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DUNKELZAHN FOR PRESID-oh wait.
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Jun 7, 2018 04:57
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He was only president for ten hours, but he'll be president forever in our hearts.
Tehan fucked around with this message at 05:05 on Jun 7, 2018 |
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Jun 7, 2018 05:03
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Gave his life to save us from the horrors. Shame for all the blood mages rending the veil to allow horrors in.
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Jun 7, 2018 05:05
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Stroth posted:Shiawase challenged this in court, cutting the NRC off at the knees by being completely open and transparent about everything involved, and successfully argued before the Supreme Court that the NRC was effectively overreaching their authority by interfering in the aluminum market, since without the reactor they would have to either shut down the factory or keep driving up electricity prices, neither of which were in the government's interests. This, btw, makes a surprising amount of sense from a legal standpoint since it effectively overrules Wickard v. Filburn, which is the SCOTUS case that makes the entire New Deal onwards federal government work. The second case is entirely ahistorical, but credit where credit is due for the Shadowrun creators writing up a Federalist Society wet dream.
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Jun 7, 2018 05:18
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habeasdorkus posted:This, btw, makes a surprising amount of sense from a legal standpoint since it effectively overrules Wickard v. Filburn, which is the SCOTUS case that makes the entire New Deal onwards federal government work. The second case is entirely ahistorical, but credit where credit is due for the Shadowrun creators writing up a Federalist Society wet dream. Actually referenced in the setting as the precedent the NRC built their argument on. The second case was built on Lochner v. New York and West Coast Hotel Co. v. Parrish. Stroth fucked around with this message at 05:28 on Jun 7, 2018 |
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Jun 7, 2018 05:22
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I mainly meant the extratoritality decision was ahistorical in that it removed jurisdiction over actual territory instead of over contract law. But yeah, they didn't stint on the backgrounding of how things got well and truly hosed. And given how things are right now, they were pretty prescient! Concepcion is SUCH a Shadowrun decision. Johnsons should have their runners sign contracts with binding arbitration to resolve disputes prior to the run to limit their liability! habeasdorkus fucked around with this message at 05:37 on Jun 7, 2018 |
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Jun 7, 2018 05:34
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Stroth posted:That's not quite what happened. Shiawase opened the largest aluminum manufacturing plant in the world in California. The power required to run the place drove electricity prices in Cali up by 550%. They realize that this was hosed up and decided to build a small nuclear reactor to power the place and stop loving over the local economy. They got all the necessary licenses and experts, but the Nuclear Regulatory Commission blocked the construction on the grounds that it wasn't in the public interest due to it neither being a commercial venture, nor a research reactor. poo poo, my bad. I thought I had the barebones summary semi-accurate and it turns out it's just me misremembering a whole bunch of details instead. Oh well, nice writeup. I totally forgot about the TerraFirst! attack, though I remember reading about it and the subsequent firebombing of their offices in like the 3rd Edition backstory intro written by Captain Chaos. RIP him and Shadowland BBS in the Second Matrix Crash.
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Jun 7, 2018 06:51
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And if you believe that's the whole of the story, then I've got an orichalcum mine in the Amazon to sell you. wiegieman posted:It's also good to keep in mind that the world of Shadowrun has many of our problems taken to extremes, like the fact that you need a million dollars to run for office or that literally every politician is beholden to donor money. I mean, it's crazy to think that a company would ever get extraterritoriality, or that any armed group of any size would even get close to a nuclear reactor, but it's good storying. It's more likely than you think. Consider the de facto status of many powerful companies in poorer countries today. Or the historical example of the British East India company.
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Jun 7, 2018 07:18
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mauman posted:Satellite Reign was close, but it felt like it was missing something. Yeah, the part where it was fun to play
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Jun 7, 2018 07:30
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ChaseSP posted:Gave his life to save us from the horrors. Shame for all the blood mages rending the veil to allow horrors in. Is Shadowrun just a game of Dominions?
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Jun 7, 2018 07:43
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wiegieman posted:It's also good to keep in mind that the world of Shadowrun has many of our problems taken to extremes, like the fact that you need a million dollars to run for office or that literally every politician is beholden to donor money. I mean, it's crazy to think that a company would ever get extraterritoriality, or that any armed group of any size would even get close to a nuclear reactor, but it's good storying. It's happened in the past. The British South African Company was a private corporation empowered to make and enforce all legislation in its territory, until they basically provoked multiple wars and got their toys taken away. Same poo poo with the East India Co.. They might even have been described as extraterritorial entities. Basically all of this has happened before and all of it will happen again.
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Jun 7, 2018 08:30
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You bring up good examples, but are those really companies with extraterritoriality, or are they extensions of foreign national interests benefiting from the protection of their home nation's military and economic power? A conquered province doesn't have any territory to be extra from, despite how their overlord dresses it up. The power always springs from the force required to back it up, and those companies had that power by the consent of their sponsors - a power which they lost when it was no longer worth it to support them.
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Jun 7, 2018 17:46
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SHADOWRUN: COME FOR THE CYBORG TROLLS, STAY FOR THE MEANINGFUL SOCIOECONOMIC CONVERSATION
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Jun 7, 2018 18:59
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Siegkrow posted:SHADOWRUN: COME FOR THE CYBORG TROLLS, STAY FOR THE MEANINGFUL SOCIOECONOMIC CONVERSATION, LEAVE WHEN PEOPLE START TO PROJECT POLITICS INTO THEIR HOBBIES Fixed.
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Jun 7, 2018 19:10
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OutofSight posted:Fixed. Those tropes may be employed in service of a narrative rather than to make a political point, but i think it's pretty unreasonable to complain when people draw parallels to reality.
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Jun 7, 2018 19:19
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To phrase it absolutely blunt (i am really sorry, rest of the thread and Kanfy): Discussion is fine and good so far, but doesn't mean to be like "Captain Oblivious". Being scary dogmatic about some pet peeve in a work of fiction and calling others idiots for not agreeing with him. Take this poo poo to D&D and worry about real-life politics. @:Prop Wash: Deleted the confusing "quote". OutofSight fucked around with this message at 19:51 on Jun 7, 2018 |
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Jun 7, 2018 19:34
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Unrestrained political discusson will result in staggering derailing, thread quality breakdown, and conversational catastrophe.
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Jun 7, 2018 19:39
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OutofSight posted:Being scary dogmatic about some pet peeve in a work of fiction and calling others idiots for not agreeing with him. The person you responded to said nothing like that. Did you mean to quote someone else?
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Jun 7, 2018 19:46
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After reading some more fluff I keep hearing about these Panther Cannons, especialy in combination with chromed trolls. What so special about them? Are they .50 sniperrifle/mg's?
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Jun 7, 2018 20:17
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More like a 20 or 30mm cannon. like take the chin gun on an Apache helicopter or something, remove from the helicopter, and put a couple grips on it. That's a Panther.
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Jun 7, 2018 20:23
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Stago Lego posted:After reading some more fluff I keep hearing about these Panther Cannons, especialy in combination with chromed trolls. They're giant Troll-portable autocannons that can blast through walls, urban assault vehicles, and practically anything else.
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Jun 7, 2018 20:24
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Real life parallels are indeed unavoidable to a degree, but it's a given that certain subjects are touchier than others and this is not the thread for arguments over such things. So keep the focus on the Sixth World rather than the real one, and keep it civil. We've already managed these things great for a full thread and a half and it has worked out well for everyone, so I see no reason why we should start having trouble with 'em now. Now kindly move on.
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Jun 7, 2018 20:55
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Stago Lego posted:After reading some more fluff I keep hearing about these Panther Cannons, especialy in combination with chromed trolls. Panther Cannons are basically taking one of those long belt-fed chain-guns and carrying it around as your toy so you can re-enact that scene in Rambo. To be a little more specific: 
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Jun 7, 2018 21:04
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An assault cannon is a weapon that says "gently caress subtlety, we're going LOUD." The Concealability stat on a belt of AC ammo is "yeah, right" in every edition of the game.
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Jun 7, 2018 21:16
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wiegieman posted:They're giant Troll-portable autocannons that can blast through walls, urban assault vehicles, and practically anything else. It should be noted that they're not really designed for trolls per se....they're supposed to be anti-armor weapons that you deploy. Trolls, a really strong ork, or a REALLY strong anybody else (as stats can go past racial maximums though it's really hard and the bulk might be an issue) just manage to turn it into a personal weapon, with all of the  that implies.
mauman fucked around with this message at 21:46 on Jun 7, 2018 |
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Jun 7, 2018 21:41
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