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Finster Dexter posted:Maybe the escape pod detaches from the model lmao It does, and has its own ship cards. Not super pumped about a two dice primary large base, though. Will be interesting to see how expensive it is pointswise.
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Jun 7, 2018 18:15
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What's the thematic reasoning for lowering its attack value?
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Jun 7, 2018 18:19
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uncle blog posted:What's the thematic reasoning for lowering its attack value? The guns on it in the movie are a lot weaker. This is the ship before Han modified it.
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Jun 7, 2018 18:20
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uncle blog posted:What's the thematic reasoning for lowering its attack value? Han probably upgraded the guns. I still haven't see Solo.
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Jun 7, 2018 18:21
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I've actually seen the movie, don't remember them being weaker, or Han ever mentioning having upgraded them. Maybe he says something in Ep4 I'm forgetting.
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Jun 7, 2018 18:24
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uncle blog posted:I've actually seen the movie, don't remember them being weaker, or Han ever mentioning having upgraded them. Maybe he says something in Ep4 I'm forgetting. The gun in ep4 has 4 barrels, the gun in solo has 1. Obviously that means rebel falcon should have 8 primary dice.
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Jun 7, 2018 18:25
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https://screenrant.com/solo-star-wars-story-millennium-falcon-different-design/quote:The Falcon's famous quad laser cannon turrets are missing in favor of a much smaller single gun on top, again, more in line with early designs by Ralph Mcquarrie. The single gun appears to still be a turret, but obviously is much less firepower than the ship packs in the original trilogy, a very understandable (and handy) upgrade.
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Jun 7, 2018 18:28
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Finster Dexter posted:Maybe the escape pod detaches from the model lmao quote:What's more, Lando always had an exit strategy, and this version of the Millennium Falcon also includes the escape craft featured in the film. This craft docks snugly in the larger miniature, even as it makes Lando's Millennium Falcon more versatile with the ability to launch this escape craft, which can operate independently from the larger ship. Sure sounds like it.
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Jun 7, 2018 18:29
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I kind of hope the actual physical model fits into the Falcon now. But I won't be too disappointed if it doesn't. quote:It's not clear if this version also has a ventral gun turret, but old expanded universe designs for the stock YT-1300 light freighter depict it with a sole dorsal quad laser cannon, with the Falcon's ventral turret being one of Han's many upgrades. Saw the movie and ya, Landos Falcon does not have a ventral gun turret. It only has the one top mounted single barrel cannon turret. AndyElusive fucked around with this message at 18:37 on Jun 7, 2018 |
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Jun 7, 2018 18:35
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Interesting that it is a part of wave 1. I'm guessing this means that Imps and Rebels also get at least one more ship for the wave, probably ones we haven't seen before.
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Jun 7, 2018 18:40
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The lead developers are doing an AMA on Reddit right now: https://www.reddit.com/r/XWingTMG/comments/8pbgdj/ama_about_xwing_second_edition_with_max_brooke/ I asked what I think is a very important question that afaik hasn't been answered yet: quote:As far as the App is concerned, will it feature all available content for list building, or will you need to enter a code from a physical product to "unlock" those cards for building? I don't think it would happen, but FFG sliding in a "to use the app you need the unique code from products you buy to unlock those products in the app" to effectively murder the secondary market would cause some serious uproar.
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Jun 7, 2018 18:41
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That limitation would kill the app as soon as a third party one gets released, so I hiiiighly doubt that to be the case.
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Jun 7, 2018 18:44
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Whoa, hang on. Lando's falcon has a Zero Stop.
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Jun 7, 2018 18:48
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uncle blog posted:Interesting that it is a part of wave 1. I'm guessing this means that Imps and Rebels also get at least one more ship for the wave, probably ones we haven't seen before. Honestly I bet it was planned for Wave 14, and they decided to not release it in that wave (with all the double component costs associated with it)
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Jun 7, 2018 18:48
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uncle blog posted:That limitation would kill the app as soon as a third party one gets released, so I hiiiighly doubt that to be the case. As do I, but I can hear the justification now: "Players shouldn't have to scroll through tons of cards they'll never use, especially if they only play one or two factions, this way, the app only has the cards they physically own and can use!" If they wanted to be extra evil they could do this, and also require the official app for all FFG events.
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Jun 7, 2018 18:48
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bunnyofdoom posted:Whoa, hang on. Lando's falcon has a Zero Stop. Yeah, that dial is massively different from Han's version. No sloops. Has a stop. Only turn is red. Edit: I guess it could be for the escape pod? ConfusedUs fucked around with this message at 18:56 on Jun 7, 2018 |
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Jun 7, 2018 18:50
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AndyElusive posted:I kind of hope the actual physical model fits into the Falcon now. It has a ventral turret, Beckett specifically says that’s where he’s going and uses it in the maelstrom chase. It’s also on the Revell model I have, so there’s definitely two turrets. They’re just single barrel.
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Jun 7, 2018 18:51
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LanceKing2200 posted:The lead developers are doing an AMA on Reddit right now: They made some concerning comments: ffg posted:MB: Clearly, you're talking about Luke (Gunner). Obviously, this card has been contentious. There are a number of interesting factors at play in the design of this card, some of which people have picked up on and others we want to highlight here: Intentionally pricing stuff so it can't be used in competitive play is....not a great way to design a game. But also some interesting ones: quote:MB: Players really like dice modification effects, but too many dice modifications that don’t require particular conditions or flight patterns make the game less healthy overall. Dice randomness might feel bad in the moment, but dice certainty makes for a weak game experience overall. So, to this point, we wanted to make sure that you can still get dice mod effects, but you have to engage with the core activity of the game to get them or they cost some sort of diminishing resource. You'll notice a lot of dice modifications (like Predator) are now restricted to the bullseye arc, or are now charge-based like Elusive. Edit: also only 3-4 points changes a year and they believe they won't have to do emergency changes. Not filled with confidence. alg fucked around with this message at 19:06 on Jun 7, 2018 |
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Jun 7, 2018 19:00
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ConfusedUs posted:Yeah, that dial is massively different from Han's version. Yeah, that seems more likely
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Jun 7, 2018 19:01
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Big Mean Jerk posted:It has a ventral turret, Beckett specifically says that’s where he’s going and uses it in the maelstrom chase. It’s also on the Revell model I have, so there’s definitely two turrets. They’re just single barrel. I stand corrected!
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Jun 7, 2018 19:06
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alg posted:They made some concerning comments: Why are these bad things?
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Jun 7, 2018 19:08
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Casual players can play just fine with well designed game pieces that fit into competitive. It doesn't work the other way around. Obviously FFG, including the current devs, don't have a good track record with playtesting and releasing balanced ships. So only 3 or 4 changes a year and saying they won't need emergency changes is concerning.
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Jun 7, 2018 19:11
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alg posted:Casual players can play just fine with well designed game pieces that fit into competitive. It doesn't work the other way around. Why not? You're just stating a thing without a reason. alg posted:Obviously FFG, including the current devs, don't have a good track record with playtesting and releasing balanced ships. So only 3 or 4 changes a year and saying they won't need emergency changes is concerning. To start, they did not say "they won't need emergency changes." They said "MB: In terms of emergency updates, we would very much like people to be confident that the point values are accurate, so this isn't something we would want to use unless it was absolutely necessary, but never say never!"
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Jun 7, 2018 19:15
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I guess you can make bad choices and play competitively but making good choices will lead you to a better outcome on an easier path? Lol what reasoning do you need to understand that. Trap choices are bad design.
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Jun 7, 2018 19:17
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Quick rules question: In 1e, and probably in 2e, I'm assuming that there's no rules against using, say, a Scum Z-95 plastic model with Rebel Z-95 cardboard and dial? Or a stock TIE Fighter model with Rebel TIE cardboard and dial? I mean, the Firespray specifically does just that.
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Jun 7, 2018 19:17
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TheCenturion posted:Quick rules question: Nah that's all fine.
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Jun 7, 2018 19:20
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alg posted:I guess you can make bad choices and play competitively but making good choices will lead you to a better outcome on an easier path? Lol what reasoning do you need to understand that. Trap choices are bad design. There is absolutely value in making the game accessible to new players via training-wheel cards. They'll outgrow these in time, if they want. There is far more to X-Wing than the next big tournament. The trick is making it so the training wheels aren't the de-facto choice for everything. Cost is the easiest way to do that.
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Jun 7, 2018 19:21
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3-4 times a year is about one per release, which seems like a reasonable starting target. I really don't want them changing lists every couple weeks, that would be annoying.
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Jun 7, 2018 22:12
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Devlan Mud posted:It does, and has its own ship cards. There's a Lando's Falcon title that may be able to pump it up. If so, Fenn and Falcon, baby.
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Jun 7, 2018 23:58
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Would a turret slot be too OP for the Lando Falcon? I could see that balancing out the two dice Thematic too.
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Jun 8, 2018 00:03
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Luke (Gunner) is a crutch card. You use him if you're not actually very good at using a turret ship, and he makes using a turret ship more forgiving. Once you're actually good at using a turret ship, you will have better results with a different, less crutchy card. I don't understand why this is apparently a bad design choice
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Jun 8, 2018 00:11
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LanceKing2200 posted:As do I, but I can hear the justification now: "Players shouldn't have to scroll through tons of cards they'll never use, especially if they only play one or two factions, this way, the app only has the cards they physically own and can use!" As far as I remember, they've said that the app will allow you to track what expansions you have, like every single other list builder. I can't imagine there won't be an option to only display cards and expansions you own. Also, I saw Solo and missed the reason why Lando's falcon had the full triangle up front and Han's doesn't! Minor spoilers I guess: They jettison the escape pod at some point for a reason I can't remember, and I didn't pay enough attention until the end when you saw the Falcon without it.
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Jun 8, 2018 00:47
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Admiral Joeslop posted:Also, I saw Solo and missed the reason why Lando's falcon had the full triangle up front and Han's doesn't! It happened during the kessel run when they were being chased by a cthulhu and jettisoned it to lure it into the black hole that wasn't called a black hole. I think?
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Jun 8, 2018 00:57
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Tacopocalypse posted:It happened during the kessel run when they were being chased by a cthulhu and jettisoned it to lure it into the black hole that wasn't called a black hole. Yeah. I actually do remember the characters mentioning it, I just didn't realize where it came from.
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Jun 8, 2018 01:05
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Strobe posted:Luke (Gunner) is a crutch card. You use him if you're not actually very good at using a turret ship, and he makes using a turret ship more forgiving. Once you're actually good at using a turret ship, you will have better results with a different, less crutchy card. A crutch option means that the reward for playing better is fewer choices, which is a questionable decision in the first place. It's better for options to be more rewarding the better you become instead of "getting better means you now know enough to ignore these trap choices." Howlrunner is a good example of a card that clearly rewards skilled play (close formation flying with swarms) but can still be a decent choice even if the person playing them isn't masterful at the game...yes, their formation may break down earlier than someone who's well practiced with flying swarm lists, but even a relatively new-ish player still understands the concepts of "try to fly together and focus down a target." The reward for getting better with Howlrunner is that you're able to make use of her more effectively. The reward for getting better with gunner Luke is, apparently, getting to stop using him. One of these is superior design than the other, in my opinion. On a different note aside from raw design, my personal experience is that nobody, not even new players, likes using crutches. Nobody wants to be told "here, use this, it's a crutch until you get better" regardless of how much they may benefit from it because it comes across as patronizing, and something that's designed to be a crutch in the sense that it falls off in usefulness the better you get is inevitably going to get labeled as a "newbie trap" and consequently ignored even by new players because even new players are savvy enough to understand "this thing is a bad choice masquerading as a good one," and whether they're playing at a skill level where it might matter is generally irrelevant. Nobody likes feeling like they're wasting time and effort on something whose purpose is to get discarded for better choices down the line. (This is different from something that's so blatantly OP as gently caress that it might as well be a crutch. Everybody loves using OP stuff because it lets them feel like they've figured out something clever even if it's not all that difficult to do.)
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Jun 8, 2018 01:56
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People aren't going to care if a card is considered a crutch or not. If it's easy to use and gets wins because you can just autopilot your list for 7 rounds people are going to use it. Miranda is a crutch pilot for bad players and shockingly one of the most played ships in existence.
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Jun 8, 2018 02:03
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banned from Starbucks posted:People aren't going to care if a card is considered a crutch or not. If it's easy to use and gets wins because you can just autopilot your list for 7 rounds people are going to use it. Miranda is a crutch pilot for bad players and shockingly one of the most played ships in existence. If it's easy to use and gets wins it's not a crutch in the sense that FFG is talking about, where getting better at the game means that the option itself becomes less attractive. Miranda didn't fall off in usefulness the better you got at the game or she wouldn't have featured so prominently at so many competitive tournaments, same for Palp aces back when that was at the top of the heap. They're specifically talking about designing options that are attractive when you're bad at the game and become less so the better you get, not something that ranges from merely good to Actually Maybe Too Good in the right hands. A better example would be the 40+ point B-Wing list that I used when I was brand new to the game that I flew to several crushing victories against people as equally bad at the game as I was at the time and I felt like a real clever clogs for doing so, then later on I realized that actually a 40+ point B-Wing was actually not that good. Instead of feeling a sense of accomplished satisfaction that I'd improved enough at the game to recognize this fact and move on to different, more effective lists what I instead felt was annoyance that I now had these B-Wings gathering dust inside my collection.
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Jun 8, 2018 02:13
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It's the eddie gordo of upgrades where you can mash options and get a win, but also the eddie gordo where if you're good with it you can feint with stances/manuveurs and get free force tokens from good positioning and play.
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Jun 8, 2018 03:06
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Kai Tave posted:A crutch option means that the reward for playing better is fewer choices, which is a questionable decision in the first place. It's better for options to be more rewarding the better you become instead of "getting better means you now know enough to ignore these trap choices." Howlrunner is a good example of a card that clearly rewards skilled play (close formation flying with swarms) but can still be a decent choice even if the person playing them isn't masterful at the game...yes, their formation may break down earlier than someone who's well practiced with flying swarm lists, but even a relatively new-ish player still understands the concepts of "try to fly together and focus down a target." The reward for getting better with Howlrunner is that you're able to make use of her more effectively. The reward for getting better with gunner Luke is, apparently, getting to stop using him. One of these is superior design than the other, in my opinion. It's not a trap card, it's literally just paying a points premium to have a card that's easier to play with. With something like managing mobile arcs especially as a new mechanic for most people, that's not a trap. It's not like Luke (Gunner) suddenly becomes worthless if you know what you're doing, it's just probably not going to be the best option in the slot for an experienced player. It's risk management, in a game where risk is a big part of the double-blind guessing game. I can easily see it remaining a high level card if the meta gravitates toward Initiative 6 pilots that can avoid an Outrider's arcs with relative impunity.
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Jun 8, 2018 05:57
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Kai Tave posted:A better example would be the 40+ point B-Wing list that I used when I was brand new to the game that I flew to several crushing victories against people as equally bad at the game as I was at the time and I felt like a real clever clogs for doing so, then later on I realized that actually a 40+ point B-Wing was actually not that good. Instead of feeling a sense of accomplished satisfaction that I'd improved enough at the game to recognize this fact and move on to different, more effective lists what I instead felt was annoyance that I now had these B-Wings gathering dust inside my collection. It's nothing like that
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Jun 8, 2018 12:11
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