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Saguaro PI posted:In a way I think BSD is the logical conclusion of a certain fixation that a portion of the OSR has with adventuring being pointless as a quick and in my opinion kind of lazy route to establishing they're not making games about world-shaping heroics.
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Jun 7, 2018 21:37
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| # ? Jun 3, 2024 17:44 |
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Death metal owns, what OSR stuff is based on it?
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Jun 7, 2018 22:26
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Frostbitten and Mutilated is the only one that comes to mind, though I'm sure there's more. I quite like that one. Suppose it varies depending on what "death metal" means to you, though.
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Jun 7, 2018 22:28
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Xotl posted:Frostbitten and Mutilated is the only one that comes to mind, though I'm sure there's more. I quite like that one. The DCC setting Hubris is also pretty Metal influenced
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Jun 7, 2018 23:08
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drrockso20 posted:The DCC setting Hubris is also pretty Metal influenced Is it any good?
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Jun 7, 2018 23:14
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Xotl posted:Is it any good? From what I remember yes, the author originally posted stuff for it on his blog, so maybe take a look at that stuff to get an idea about whether or not you'd want to spend money on it
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Jun 7, 2018 23:16
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Xotl posted:Frostbitten and Mutilated is the only one that comes to mind, though I'm sure there's more. I quite like that one. Frostbitten and Mutilated is more black metal influenced than death metal. That distinction may or may not be meaningful to you.
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Jun 8, 2018 01:46
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what kind of metal is dudes with surprisingly high voices singing three part melodies about elves?
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Jun 8, 2018 01:59
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andrew smash posted:what kind of metal is dudes with surprisingly high voices singing three part melodies about elves? Isn't that just "metal" or "heavy metal" if you want to get old-school?
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Jun 8, 2018 02:03
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Hell if I know, that's why i asked. I thought heavy metal was black sabbath.
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Jun 8, 2018 02:15
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thefakenews posted:Frostbitten and Mutilated is more black metal influenced than death metal. That distinction may or may not be meaningful to you. It does (and I agree). But like you I'm not sure who has a grounding in that here so I vaguely lumped things together. andrew smash posted:what kind of metal is dudes with surprisingly high voices singing three part melodies about elves? Power metal, usually. That's your Dragonforces and Manowars.
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Jun 8, 2018 05:17
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Is there a doom metal RPG where everything is very slow? Ten minutes of silence after the game starts, the DM tells you to roll initiative, and you slowly push the d20 boulder up the mound which holds the standing stones the rules are carved into. The d20 lumbers down the slope, accelerating until it reaches the ditch. A torch is thrown to light the night and read the score. A 20! The weed filling the ditch ignites.
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Jun 8, 2018 08:15
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So it's possible this stuff was brought up in the old thread but these mercenaries from the Into the Odd dude own and I'm putting them and their gadgets in any game I run from now on.
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Jun 8, 2018 08:27
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90s Cringe Rock posted:Is there a doom metal RPG where everything is very slow? Ten minutes of silence after the game starts, the DM tells you to roll initiative, and you slowly push the d20 boulder up the mound which holds the standing stones the rules are carved into. The d20 lumbers down the slope, accelerating until it reaches the ditch. A torch is thrown to light the night and read the score. A 20! The weed filling the ditch ignites. DCC RPG is pretty much the doom metal rpg isn't it? thefakenews fucked around with this message at 12:39 on Jun 8, 2018 |
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Jun 8, 2018 12:33
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Aniodia posted:
probably because LotFP, according to Raggi, is BECMI. It's pure Mentzer.
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Jun 8, 2018 15:19
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thefakenews posted:DCC RPG is pretty much the doom metal rpg isn't it? Nah, if we were JUST talking about OSR, it'd be the LOTFP modules, especially stuff like Death Frost Doom. DCC is meant to be more upbeat, while it does have some hosed up content, DCC is about 80's van mural art, unicorns, rainbows, bong wizards, skeleton butlers etc
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Jun 8, 2018 15:21
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I think I need to give DCC another shot. I became aware of it during a time when the toxic aspects of the OSR community were really getting on my nerves, and the nostalgia marketing just rubbed me the wrong way. If it's the Stoner Metal RPG then I'm obliged.
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Jun 8, 2018 15:33
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WiiFitForWindows8 posted:probably because LotFP, according to Raggi, is BECMI. It's pure Mentzer. He probably meant that that was his starting base and general inspiration. Ruleswise, B/X and BE are almost 100% the same (something I should probably make clear in the OP). The only differences are that BE reformats the original books to add a choose your own adventure style intro to roleplaying (which makes them better for complete newbies to the hobby, but more annoying to navigate for experienced players), and reworks the thief skill percentages to operate over 36 levels instead of B/X's 14 (a mistake, as even Mentzer would eventually admit). I think there's one or two small differences in the spells, but we're really talking about the same game (the main differences really are in the support materials--the CMI part---which adds a lot more stuff but is rarely used because it doesn't even start kicking in until 15th level). LotFP departs markedly from this base in several areas (spell list, AC 12 instead of 10 as a base, ascending AC, firearms rules are core, completely different encumbrance, Turn Undead as a spell, attack progression only for the fighter, and so on). Halloween Jack posted:I think I need to give DCC another shot. I became aware of it during a time when the toxic aspects of the OSR community were really getting on my nerves, and the nostalgia marketing just rubbed me the wrong way. I really think that blurb at the start of every DCC module really does the game a disservice, to the point where it implies pretty much the opposite of how it works. Remember the good old days, when adventures were underground, NPCs were there to be killed, and the finale of every dungeon was the dragon on the 20th level? Those days are back. Dungeon Crawl Classics RPG adventures don’t waste your time with longwinded speeches, weird campaign settings, or NPCs who aren’t meant to be killed. Lots of DCC stuff isn't underground, the NPCs are of varying importance and killability, dragons are almost unheard of, and of course, they go out of their way to emphasize the gonzo and the weird. About the only thing accurate in all that is that they do indeed avoid all the long-winding speeches: DCC modules tend to be superb in their terseness. The blurb emphasizes the standard grog nature of the scene, but DCC goes for anything but that.
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Jun 8, 2018 18:48
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Halloween Jack posted:I think I need to give DCC another shot. I became aware of it during a time when the toxic aspects of the OSR community were really getting on my nerves, and the nostalgia marketing just rubbed me the wrong way. I guess I'd pick The Sword as the band that epitomizes DCC; somewhere on the hard rock-stoner metal continuum with fantasy and sci-fi concept albums. LOTFP is definitely trying to be church burning Scandinavian death metal murder music though.
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Jun 8, 2018 19:26
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Halloween Jack posted:On reflection, I realized that I was really just asking the age-old question "How do I make magic rare and special in my high fantasy setting," just replacing "magic" with "high-tech." (Ironically, petty magic will be all over the place.) I'm totally on board with just treating a crysknife as a dagger+1 and a lightsaber as a bastard sword+3 and a grenade launcher as a wand of fireball. Late to this, but since I still need to get my commission check from Goodman Games this week, I'd say that DCC handles this well. I like the its take on Vancian casting and the Purple Planet boxed set and Mutant Crawl Classics both have different rules for advanced tech. I haven't dug into MCC's yet, but I like the relic rules and descriptions from Purple Planet. But yeah, just reskinning everything and managing encounters is the way to go. Xotl posted:I really think that blurb at the start of every DCC module really does the game a disservice, to the point where it implies pretty much the opposite of how it works. Agreed, but they've had that blurb in every single adventure since Idylls of the Rat King for 3rd Ed, so at this point it's Tradition!  My copy of Greenwood of the Fey Sovereign got here today, good impressions on skimming it, I'll post up a mini-review later.
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Jun 8, 2018 20:13
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People keep mentioning Flame Princess having good encumbrance rules--what's so good and different about them? That's definitely not anything I would have associated with that game, so I'm really curious.
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Jun 9, 2018 00:03
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From page 38 of the Rules & Magic hardcover:
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Jun 9, 2018 01:19
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It kinda goes against the standard OSR vibe, but I'd probably not bother with Encumberance as long as my players aren't doing something too silly, just feels more fiddly than necessary for the most part
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Jun 9, 2018 03:36
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drrockso20 posted:It kinda goes against the standard OSR vibe, but I'd probably not bother with Encumberance as long as my players aren't doing something too silly, just feels more fiddly than necessary for the most part I think this is a key distinction between '70s-rooted dungeon games (OD&D through 1e, B/X and BECMI, Tunnels & Trolls, etc.) that are played in the strategic challenge style, and the later adventure games of 2e, 3.PF, 4e, and 5e, that are typically played in the illusionist style. The relationship between time, movement, and wandering monster checks are the core of the old school engine for me. I think it's possible to dispense with things encumbrance and morale and reaction rolls, but the cost of removing the fiddly or tedious parts is a removal of the strategic depth of the game. Exploration and attack by stealth or maneuver is limited by encumbrance and time vs. wandering monster checks. Running away or running in pursuit can encourage dropping items to improve movement speed at the cost of losing or needing to recover those items. Carefully selecting a limited amount of gear to carry, or doing odd things like leading a mule into the dungeon, or using hirelings as porters, is a big portion of the strategic game that's eliminated if you remove encumbrance. Coins have unrealistic heavy weights that make hauling coins out of the dungeon more difficult, and that requires some kind of encumbrance system. Magic items like bags of holding or enchanted plate armor are much more important and useful with an encumbrance system because they expand a carry limit or greatly reduce the weight of the best armor. Limiting ranged attacks through tracking ammunition and weight is important because it limits the ability of the player characters to kite or harass monsters without taking on as much risk as engaging in melee. The reason why I'd want some kind of explicit and predictable system in place for this is so that my players can make decisions with known outcomes. If I rely on making ad-hoc rulings to determine the effect of encumbrance, then I'm not giving them a clear opportunity to plan around this part of the game, and their success or failure becomes more arbitrary and less rewarding. I've ran simpler games that fit on a couple pages of rules which approximate a dungeon game, with rules for encumbrance being reduced to ideas like "each character can carry 3 items total, and armor counts as 1 item." Simplifications like that or Lamentations' point system still give you some opportunity for depth without taking very long to process. OD&D-inspired encumbrance is only a little more fiddly than that, but if you just don't want to track things at all then it brings into question what part of the game you find interesting, or why you're playing this kind of game and not another game. Getting rid of encumbrance entirely but still playing with the priority on strategic challenge, ime, drifts the game over into board gaming territory, and we see that in things like Dungeon!, HeroQuest, and Super Dungeon Explore. I like games like those too, but they play very differently from something like B/X. The other way that eliminating encumbrance tends to lead is drifting over into adventure games, but I see those as distinctly not fitting into the strategic challenge genre; I think they tend to respect different priorities, more often involving deeper tactical challenges and/or some mechanically simple/low-contact narrative concerns with an emphasis on plots instead of locations.
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Jun 9, 2018 16:45
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I like logistics, but I hate tracking them in real units and then needing to relate those units to game mechanics. In other words, give me turns and encumbrance points instead of tracking minutes and hours and pounds of weight.
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Jun 9, 2018 21:37
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Just bought some DCC adventures today as I might be running a campaign in the near future, went with the following ones; Sailors On The Starless Seas The People of The Pit The Emerald Enchanter
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Jun 10, 2018 01:53
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Anyone have experience mixing dcc with mcc? And which third party classes/patrons/player facing stuff is worth using?
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Jun 10, 2018 05:26
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I’ve been leafing through the DCC core book recently and just wondered about some of the semi-fluff stuff relating to classes and alignments - like, the warrior entry implies neutral warriors are all barbarians with appropriate titles, etc. Is that mostly considered an example for players without strong notions of how they want to play their character? Is it generally acceptable for someone who wants a neutral warrior (for example) to be a mercenary instead, or whatever else they like? If i ever get to play this I will almost certainly be the GM so ultimately I know i can change whatever I want, but I am curious about how others have used those rules. Some of the more thematic stuff I think I would leave in place - I really like the idea of chaotic wizards being a bunch of demon groupies, for example.
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Jun 10, 2018 19:50
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DCC is the first D&D derivative that really conveys the idea that magic is dangerous, esoteric, and bizarre. No matter how you slice it, it's a pact with more powerful forces who are, at best, indifferent to your concerns.
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Jun 10, 2018 20:23
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andrew smash posted:I’ve been leafing through the DCC core book recently and just wondered about some of the semi-fluff stuff relating to classes and alignments - like, the warrior entry implies neutral warriors are all barbarians with appropriate titles, etc. Is that mostly considered an example for players without strong notions of how they want to play their character? Is it generally acceptable for someone who wants a neutral warrior (for example) to be a mercenary instead, or whatever else they like? If i ever get to play this I will almost certainly be the GM so ultimately I know i can change whatever I want, but I am curious about how others have used those rules. Its all just ideas. You can do whatever you want with your alignment, attitude, etc.
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Jun 10, 2018 21:41
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alg posted:Death metal owns, what OSR stuff is based on it? The Chaos Gods Come to Meatlandia is an adventure centered around being set in what may as well be a death metal music video. I do not own it, so I cannot attest to its quality.
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Jun 12, 2018 03:26
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LotFP's rules are freely available on DTRPG, so take a look before you buy the book. It's laid out really badly and honestly I don't think the innovations (encumberance, skill dice, ten-page-long Summon spell) are worth the bother of trying to find the real rules hidden somewhere between domestic hireling descriptions and household finance mechanics. Why does it have rules for loving rent anyway? 
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Jun 12, 2018 12:21
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Because real life needed more maces and grog I guess
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Jun 12, 2018 13:27
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It's cool to have options for stuff 
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Jun 12, 2018 13:46
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Money sink to apply when PCs get rich as they level up.
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Jun 12, 2018 13:50
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LashLightning posted:Money sink to apply when PCs get rich as they level up. I'd rather just abstract wealth, but I guess that's not very OSR.
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Jun 12, 2018 14:22
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Halloween Jack posted:I'm confused as to why S&W and LL both have expansions/editions that turn them into AD&D1e. Was there, like, a contest or something? Is OSRIC just too dry? Late, but as someone who was into this stuff a while back, LL's reason for this was that apparently there was whole generation of players who came in through basic and "graduated" to AD&D who just sort of kept playing BX rules games with stuff from the advanced system tacked onto it. So that supplement is pretty much a bunch of usable AD&D stuff for your BX game.
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Jun 13, 2018 00:50
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I think that's basically the default; I mean, how many people studiously played AD&D by the book?
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Jun 13, 2018 01:14
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Halloween Jack posted:I think that's basically the default; I mean, how many people studiously played AD&D by the book?
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Jun 13, 2018 08:42
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Yeah for us it was basically an add-on for the B/X we'd already been playing. We still mostly used B/X rules, you know?
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Jun 13, 2018 14:05
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