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Silver Spooner posted:drat, what riding was that? Ottawa West Nepean http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottawa/ottawa-west-nepean-challenge-1.4697349
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Jun 8, 2018 13:47
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Math You posted:Ottawa West Nepean  
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Jun 8, 2018 13:51
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twistedmentat posted:I could never get a handle on why people hated her so much. She never really had a scandal Whoa whoa whoa. She did absolutely gently caress all to try to clean up the Liberals' reputation from the gas plant scandal, and people are still skeptical of the party thanks to older fuckups ORNGE and eHealth. Even Paul Martin, who was an rear end in a top hat austerity pusher as finance minister, tried and failed to be a better prime Minister and redeem himself by investigating the sponsorship scandal (no matter how pure his motives really were). Some of these Wynne hagiographies are focusing on Hydro One almost exclusively - some even defending the decision - without even a peep about the ridiculous casino firesale that only came out last month. Also, it's worth repeating that this might have been avoided if more Liberal voters had defected to the NDP to stop Ford like they (hypothetically) should have wanted to. The PCs only got a +5% swing from last election. Now you'd think having as terrible a leader as Ford might incur a bigger penalty than that but hey it's 2018 and here we are. To be fair, Ford did appear to learn one lesson from his dumbass predecessor and only promised vague 6% efficiencies without firing anyone (how? Who knows, who cares!) instead of promising to fire 100,000 people. Lastly, in the history of recycling mediocre white men who are only in politics because of their inherited wealth, isn't it funny that John Tory failed in his bid to become premier but eventually became mayor of Toronto instead, while Doug Ford did the opposite? No actually, it's sad.
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Jun 8, 2018 13:58
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i stopped paying attention last night when Chandra was up by 4 or 500 votes and didn’t check again this morning. I thought she won 
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Jun 8, 2018 13:58
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melon cat posted:I honestly don't understand what the Liberals strategy was this election. Those weird #SorryNorSorry ads, Wynne telling people "If you don't vote, old white people like me are going to", the coup de grace early concession where she basically abandoned the remaining Liberal voters. And her refusal to step down showed an almost sociopathic disconnection with Ontarians. It loving confounds me that an actual team of highly-paid campaign "experts" got together, and thought all of this was a good idea. It was the most brainless campaigns that I had ever seen. Wynne single-handedly sunk the party. Their strategy was actually pretty obvious, though they gave the game away early on when the NDP started surging and a Liberal insider was caught saying something along the lines of "we're pretty worried that if Horwath gets in she could run the province for a decade or more, whereas we think we could beat Doug Ford in four years". Once it became clear they wouldn't win, their plan shifted to helping elect the worst option. They knew Doug Ford would be a trainwreck and so as soon as the NDP threatened to win they put all their effort into sabotaging them, from the endless attacks to the appeals for strategic voting to the bizarre early concession that served to drain votes away from waffling NDP voters by making it seem like the NDP had a higher chance of winning a majority than they actually did. All this was built around the premise that four years from now they can sweep back into power with a new leader against an unpopular Premier Ford, rather than fighting an uphill battle against a popular Premier Horwath. They intentionally tanked the only good option we had this election because all they care about is being in power, they don't actually care about the well-being of the province of Ontario. In fact, Ontario doing well when they're out of power is contradictory to their goals of appearing to be the only party you can trust with your vote.
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Jun 8, 2018 14:06
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The sun has rose once more and all hail God-Premier For Life Doug Ford
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Jun 8, 2018 14:16
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patonthebach posted:He didnt promise me poo poo and I never voted for him. They do blow, but I'm skeptical at the idea of there being any significant pricing change given that Canadians have already demonstrated that we'll buy booze at inflated prices and businesses like money. In like, the best case scenario (where best case means 'policy change actually has an effect on pricing' rather than my guess that it won't do poo poo) the bottom shelf beers will be a little cheaper and I don't drink that stuff anyway. That's it.
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Jun 8, 2018 14:27
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Oh hey do you think Doug Ford will continue the basic income pilot?
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Jun 8, 2018 14:29
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vyelkin posted:Their strategy was actually pretty obvious, though they gave the game away early on when the NDP started surging and a Liberal insider was caught saying something along the lines of "we're pretty worried that if Horwath gets in she could run the province for a decade or more, whereas we think we could beat Doug Ford in four years". lol that owns
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Jun 8, 2018 14:32
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eXXon posted:Oh hey do you think Doug Ford will continue the basic income pilot? You'll be lucky if he doesn't roll back the minimum wage hike and say don't worry we just won't tax you anymore
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Jun 8, 2018 14:33
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eXXon posted:Oh hey do you think Doug Ford will continue the basic income pilot? If no one mentions it to him it'll quietly roll along.
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Jun 8, 2018 14:45
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Also Wynne had her fair share of scandals. Even if they were upfront and obvious like the sell off of Hydro one. One of the stupidest things I've seen in politics.
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Jun 8, 2018 14:48
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patonthebach posted:Also Wynne had her fair share of scandals. Even if they were upfront and obvious like the sell off of Hydro one. One of the stupidest things I've seen in politics. Read the Star article about how the OLP basically hosed Toronto's transit plans by pushing the subway in Scarborough - just to save one seat in a byelection. Meddling with Metrolinx too. I couldn't ever vote Liberal after that kind of poo poo.
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Jun 8, 2018 14:56
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Wirth1000 posted:You'll be lucky if he doesn't roll back the minimum wage hike and say don't worry you can opt-in to a tax rebate
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Jun 8, 2018 14:56
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vyelkin posted:the premise that four years from now they can sweep back into power with a new leader
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Jun 8, 2018 14:57
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Wistful of Dollars posted:If no one mentions it to him it'll quietly roll along.
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Jun 8, 2018 15:00
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Mr. Apollo posted:The CTF lists the "wasteful UBI experiment" as one of the first things Ford should cut. If they're so confident it's wasteful and lovely, then shouldn't they want all the pilots to continue, thus providing verifiable proof that it's wasteful and lovely?
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Jun 8, 2018 15:06
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I wonder how the CTF feels about the province taking on additional debt to fund tax cuts?
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Jun 8, 2018 15:12
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dev286 posted:I wonder how the CTF feels about the province taking on additional debt to fund tax cuts? something something efficiencies
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Jun 8, 2018 15:14
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tagesschau posted:Who's even left standing? A few cabinet ministers kept their posts, but none of the big ones. The guy everyone assumed would replace Wynne (Charles Sousa) lost his seat. The longest-serving Liberal MPP left is Michael Gravelle, who's been the Thunder Bay MPP since 1997 and who's been in cabinet since 2007, but I don't think the Liberals would pick him even if he ran because he's entering his 70s. Other than that it's mostly newer faces who were only elected in the last few years. If I had to guess two MPPs who kept their seats who are considering running for leader right now I'd say Mitzie Hunter and Michael Coteau. I definitely wouldn't rule out someone else running from outside the current OLP kind of like Jagmeet did federally.
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Jun 8, 2018 15:17
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twistedmentat posted:I could never get a handle on why people hated her so much. She never really had a scandal, the economy didn't fall apart under her watch. mostly i heard dumb poo poo like "She thinks she's so big" and "she is always rubbing it in our faces that she's a gay woman", nothing more than that. Unless people are secret socialists and hate her for those reasons, which based on the elections results is highly dubious, I can't see why outside of being a lesbian and therefor Bad for the homophobic shitheads. The autism one where she kicked everyone over 5 off the waiting list. The sudbury bribery scandal. 5 years of fuckery and pay freezes on the nurse and teacher unions. Clawbacks on doctor pay. 10k a plate cash for access fundraiser dinners. Constant fighting with AG about actual deficit size and removing McGuinty's no partisan government advertising AG powers. Doubling down on green energy act hydro rates and then selling hydro one immediately after running on "the most progressive budget ever" to balance the deficit. Her actions and attitude seemed to have nothing but contempt for Ontarians (maybe deservedly) and she only really seemed sorry when it became clear she was going to get destroyed and even then it was #SorryNotSorry. She was our province's terrible narcissistic parent. We finally decided to sever, she tried to up our allowance but we stayed strong and temporarily moved in with our fat douchey boyfriend instead of our unemployed marxist girlfriend but at least we're in a better place where we can move forward.
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Jun 8, 2018 15:26
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Now do one for Andrea Horwath
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Jun 8, 2018 15:31
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Dinosaurtrain posted:Now do one for Andrea Horwath Who?
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Jun 8, 2018 15:33
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vyelkin posted:A few cabinet ministers kept their posts, but none of the big ones. The guy everyone assumed would replace Wynne (Charles Sousa) lost his seat. Coteau seems OK, but Hunter strikes me as an empty suit. So basically none of the bad stuff the Liberals did is anything the PCs would do better, but Ontario is happy to throw the baby out with the bathwater.
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Jun 8, 2018 15:39
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Her?
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Jun 8, 2018 15:43
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Silver Spooner posted:drat, what riding was that? Yeah we elected PARM GILL as our MPP representative. Some conservative voters in town are still convinced the PC Party is going to switch him out after being elected, which isn't possible  patonthebach posted:Also Wynne had her fair share of scandals. Even if they were upfront and obvious like the sell off of Hydro one. One of the stupidest things I've seen in politics. This made absolutely no sense to begin with PT6A posted:If they're so confident it's wasteful and lovely, then shouldn't they want all the pilots to continue, thus providing verifiable proof that it's wasteful and lovely? If you destroy factual data, you can set the discourse based on feelings
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Jun 8, 2018 15:56
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dev286 posted:I wonder how the CTF feels about the province taking on additional debt to fund tax cuts? Short term pain for long term gain. 
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Jun 8, 2018 15:59
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Risky Bisquick posted:If you destroy factual data, you can set the discourse based on feelings It was rhetorical.
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Jun 8, 2018 15:59
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I wonder what lessons the public sector unions take away from this fiasco. Their alliance with the liberals was great for them right up to the moment where it wasn't so great. tagesschau posted:Not going to be true no matter how many times you repeat it. Drawing a line immediately to your own right and saying "that's the center!" is a great way to be totally clueless about where the center actually is. Pretending that Wynne's policies aren't left of the political center in Ontario simply because you don't want them to be is not any way to have an informed discussion. How do you locate parties on a left to right spectrum? What are your criteria? tagesschau posted:As with Obama, a lot of it wasn't based in reality. Majorities of Republican voters thought that unemployment was up, and the stock market down, on Obama's watch, even though the opposite was true. The way a lot of people talk about Wynne, you'd think Ontario's unemployment rate and debt-to-GDP ratio went up under her watch, or that wages went down. Facts don't actually matter, we've learned. That's because the link that once existed between these numbers and the general welfare of the economy have broken down and low unemployment and a booming stock market no longer create a subjective sense of prosperity. It never fails to amuse me when people (who invariably don't work crappy high turnover and low wage jobs) cite the unemployment numbers as an indicator of to get economic health. Of all the things people are upset about right now you really want to zero in on the sense of economic malaise and dysfunction as being irrational and misplaced?
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Jun 8, 2018 16:01
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PT6A posted:Sitting in Alberta, sipping my morning coffee and still laughing my rear end off at Ontario's trainwreck of an election. We so rarely get to say "well, at least our province isn't as dumb as that" here in Alberta -- it turns out it's quite a nice, warm feeling. UCP UCP UCP
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Jun 8, 2018 16:04
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DariusLikewise posted:UCP UCP UCP We've not elected them yet, thank you very much.
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Jun 8, 2018 16:05
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Helsing posted:I wonder what lessons the public sector unions take away from this fiasco. Their alliance with the liberals was great for them right up to the moment where it wasn't so great. Absolutely nothing, just like how they continued to stump for the OLP after repeated strike breaking back to work bills. I'll say this for ATU Canada, they supported the NDP as the only party that wasn't trying to privatize transit, and even now their message is we'll keep fighting. infernal machines fucked around with this message at 16:10 on Jun 8, 2018 |
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Jun 8, 2018 16:07
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When you vote the bastards out, you're not supposed to vote in the bigger, more corrupt and evil bastards. Ontario you are doing democracy wrong. Also a juxtaposition:   Not only do the conservatives not have a plan to address climate change, they campaigned on squashing even the anemic baby-steps towards actually doing something. They're not hiding it, it's a selling point. For that they were rewarded by suburbanites that otherwise might have had to marginally adjust their lifestyle. There can be no pretending decades from now that contemporary Canadians don't know about climate change as an issue or that it's a major problem. We absolutely know and are collectively kicking that can down the road. I would not bet on the federal carbon tax being around for long. Nocturtle fucked around with this message at 16:11 on Jun 8, 2018 |
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Jun 8, 2018 16:08
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Helsing posted:I wonder what lessons the public sector unions take away from this fiasco. Their alliance with the liberals was great for them right up to the moment where it wasn't so great. That if they endorse PC candidates they too can be part of the winning team.
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Jun 8, 2018 16:08
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infernal machines posted:Absolutely nothing, just like how they continued to stump for the OLP after repeated strike breaking back to work bills. Imagine if they invested even half the advertising budget of the working families coalition into long term GOTV infrastructure and social unionism activities instead of abandoning lower wsge snd most private sector workwrs by herding all the most privileged labour organizations into the pro-privatization party.
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Jun 8, 2018 16:11
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PC +7 is actually pretty surprising in terms of margins I was expecting +3 or something
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Jun 8, 2018 16:13
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Also Silver Spooner I have the HCDSB letter you spoke of, I mispoke saying they endorsed a candidate like you mentioned, it was 3rd hand information. Funnily enough it was sent with stick on labels for addressee/sender and had an actual stamp instead of using the prepaid envelopes and the envelope being printed on directly with the info. This makes me wonder how hastily they put these together. e: Ikantski now you see why I was like >7 or >=7
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Jun 8, 2018 16:15
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Helsing posted:Imagine if they invested even half the advertising budget of the working families coalition into long term GOTV infrastructure and social unionism activities instead of abandoning lower wsge snd most private sector workwrs by herding all the most privileged labour organizations into the pro-privatization party. I eagerly await the twisted logic that will see OSSTF, ETFO, and OPSEU supporting a rump party over the official opposition in four years. Every member's OLP vote bought them this PC majority, so I hope they enjoy what's about to happen to education in this province.
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Jun 8, 2018 16:21
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this wouldn't have happened if trudeau actually followed up on his promise of electoral reform
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Jun 8, 2018 16:24
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Helsing posted:How do you locate parties on a left to right spectrum? What are your criteria? Right now, I'm seeing people (in this thread and elsewhere) claiming that the party that passed a $15 minimum wage, equal work for equal pay, pharmacare for people under 25, and universal rent regulation, and put actual shovels in the ground on transit projects is a center-right party, while the party that is vehemently opposed to road tolls, insists that the price of car insurance must be brought down by an arbitrary 15% no matter what, and demanded the removal of the provincial portion of HST from hydro bills and the end of time-of-use pricing is the unquestionably progressive party. That's not thoughtful analysis of their positions; it's being a good cheerleader for your team. Helsing posted:That's because the link that once existed between these numbers and the general welfare of the economy have broken down and low unemployment and a booming stock market no longer create a subjective sense of prosperity. It never fails to amuse me when people (who invariably don't work crappy high turnover and low wage jobs) cite the unemployment numbers as an indicator of to get economic health. Of all the things people are upset about right now you really want to zero in on the sense of economic malaise and dysfunction as being irrational and misplaced?
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Jun 8, 2018 16:26
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