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CRISPYBABY posted:Does Ontario get comprehensive voting demographic stats after an election? Hello, Canadian born Chinese with Hong Kong heritage here. Visible minorities in Canada are not as overtly oppressed by the state as they are down south so you can't take the lessons from the US and apply them here directly. Class is far more important than race when it comes to politics because there are plenty of old rich Chinese fucks who are as conservative as any old rich white person. My dad is an immigrant engineer and he's been voting Tory his entire life.
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Jun 9, 2018 00:20
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PittTheElder posted:Making things worse in hopes that things will get better eventually, maybe, somehow is a bad plan, hth I mean that would make liberals accelerationists too given austerity and privatization is also making things worse objectively.
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Jun 9, 2018 00:25
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MMM Whatchya Say posted:The last week of the campaign got nasty with all the stuff from the liberals about how the NDP were too soft on unions and were going to raise your taxes Yes, heaven forbid the party that's explicitly pro-union act in a way that's favourable to unions. I just... I just don't even understand modern political rhetoric. It's like so many normal concepts have been twisted into weird code words that politics has become its own stupid language.
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Jun 9, 2018 00:26
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it's funny how unions spent all that money helping the Liberals get a majority last time only to have the Libs turn on them the moment their political fortunes were threatened by mild social democracy
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Jun 9, 2018 00:32
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One thing we have to consider in the future is that it is now very hard to run a 'clean' candidate. Every stupid rear end thing we have ever said online is a political time bomb. I think it will continue to be a hurtle for some really great candidates in the future because hey maybe they have great ideas BUT they also posted a dumbass thing on Facebook once.
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Jun 9, 2018 00:34
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tagesschau posted:You can't establish criteria in a vacuum, ignoring the opinions the electorate actually holds. If half the electorate thinks a particular policy is too far to the left, and the other half thinks it's too far to the right, you've found the center. The issue here is that you're using public perception as the only criteria for establishing what the terms 'left' and 'right' designate, which is not exactly how they were used historically and doesn't necessarily describe how self identified members of those ideologies would see themselves or the larger political spectrum. For instance, your analysis of left and right appears to have no direct connection to economic class, which was pretty central to most historical conceptions of the left. I understand where you're coming from and you are using the terms left and right in a fashion that is consistent with media organizations that try to fit all politics into a horse race narrative.But there are other legitimate ways to viewing things. The liberals are a party of big business that very closely aligns to the values of white collar upper income professionals, plus a bunch of machine politics style connections to certain demographic slices of the population, and while this configuration has recently lead to centre left policies they're still a bourgie party that fundamentally exists to defend the interests of people in the upper class. quote:The people working the crappy low-wage jobs didn't switch to voting Republican in droves, and aren't the ones in the Obama-is-bad-for-made-up-reasons bubble. I haven't seen any polls for yesterday's election that cross-reference people's employment status and wages, but it's unlikely that people with tenuous jobs are flocking to the Tories, either. It's people who are already better off than average ("got mine"), but deathly afraid of losing that status and will do anything to preserve it ("gently caress you"). You don't need to be directly employed in a crappy high turnover job to feel anxious about the fact the entire economy visibly went to poo poo. Almost everyone who has been alive long enough to properly remember the economy from a few decades ago has been impacted by the general crappification of jobs, pensions, government services, etc. and by the accompanying increase in prices for crucial markets like housing. They see these things impacting their children and they also feel heightened status anxiety even in situations where they aren't directly at risk, because they're increasingly aware of how far they could fall. Status anxiety increases as inequality increases, and is likely sharpened even more so when you start to see people around you visibly doing worse. We often think of inequality exclusively meaning the rich get richer, but people also become anxious and in some cases are radicalized by witnessing the growth of poverty in their own communities (not that this anxiety necessarily leads them to be more sympathetic to the poor). Watching literally entire communities get hit first by the 'China shock', then the suicide and opiod epidemics, and then the 2008 collapse, all happening at the same time or in rapid succession, had a pretty obvious impact on American politics. Watching liberals smugly lecture conservatives about how great the American economy was actually doing under Obama is one of those prophetic anecdotes that helped me realize Trump had a much better chance of winning than any mainstream opinion maker seemed to realize. As for Ontario, I haven't seen any specific breakdowns of this since the election and historically Conservative voters have tended to be more affluent, but the most recent federal polls seem to suggest that right now a plurality of lower income earners and self identified "working class" folks support the federal conservatives.
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Jun 9, 2018 00:35
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Testikles posted:One thing we have to consider in the future is that it is now very hard to run a 'clean' candidate. Every stupid rear end thing we have ever said online is a political time bomb. I think it will continue to be a hurtle for some really great candidates in the future because hey maybe they have great ideas BUT they also posted a dumbass thing on Facebook once. Check out this post that fell through a space-time rip from the dimension where Doug Ford and Donald Trump lost.
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Jun 9, 2018 00:37
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Has there been any political research done for engaging older Canadian Asians in left-leaning politics? The resources I've found online mostly refer to Asian American apolitical-ness but my experience with the the Chinese communities in Markham and Scarborough is that the older generation consistently turns out and goes hard for the PCs because all that matters to them is tax cuts and fear of social change (as demonstrated by the landslides in Scarborough North and Markham ridings). Nobody gives a gently caress about community services and anyone left of center is automatically written off as crazy since they're either from the original wave of HK immigrants running from the '97 handover to China, or the nouveau riche mainlanders that have arrived more lately. The FYGM attitude prevalent among the community is out of this world. This is all compounded by the Fox News levels of disinformation coming out of Chinese AM radio/Fairchild TV. How do I convince my parents and the rest of their generation to collectively stop loving over their children and future grand children? I'm incredibly frustrated right now because every election I seemingly manage to talk sense into them in regards to things like labour rights, environmental action and public education but then they faithfully X off for the PC candidate. What makes me doubly pissed is that my girlfriend's mom called us last night to gloat about Doug's victory and told us we shouldn't have even gone to vote if we went NDP. There's got to be a better alternative than just waiting for all of them to die off.
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Jun 9, 2018 00:40
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It's less about a clean campaign, and more that soundbytes in the age of rapid internet media dissemination mean that lying and saying poo poo that dumb people want to hear reverberates in the echo chambers far better than it used to, and facts and policy are less appealing than saying things that make people cheer. Or maybe it was always this dumb and I'm naive.
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Jun 9, 2018 00:41
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Helsing posted:Check out this post that fell through a space-time rip from the dimension where Doug Ford and Donald Trump lost. *clears throat* This rule only applies to candidates on the left. If you're on the right and you post: abort all black babies, you will get a boost
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Jun 9, 2018 00:44
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Neeber posted:What makes me doubly pissed is that my girlfriend's mom called us last night to gloat about Doug's victory and told us we shouldn't have even gone to vote if we went NDP. What the gently caress? That woman sounds like a massive oval office
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Jun 9, 2018 00:45
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CRISPYBABY posted:It's less about a clean campaign, and more that soundbytes in the age of rapid internet media dissemination mean that lying and saying poo poo that dumb people want to hear reverberates in the echo chambers far better than it used to, and facts and policy are less appealing than saying things that make people cheer. It was but now something dumb and entertaining can reach millions instead of the select circle of people in your immediate vicinity
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Jun 9, 2018 00:47
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Neeber posted:Has there been any political research done for engaging older Canadian Asians in left-leaning politics? The resources I've found online mostly refer to Asian American apolitical-ness but my experience with the the Chinese communities in Markham and Scarborough is that the older generation consistently turns out and goes hard for the PCs because all that matters to them is tax cuts and fear of social change (as demonstrated by the landslides in Scarborough North and Markham ridings). Nobody gives a gently caress about community services and anyone left of center is automatically written off as crazy since they're either from the original wave of HK immigrants running from the '97 handover to China, or the nouveau riche mainlanders that have arrived more lately. The FYGM attitude prevalent among the community is out of this world. Based on talks I've attended by Harper government era people like Jason Kenney the CPC is overjoyed by the inroads they made in 2011 with a lot of those communities. The best part for the CPC is that they're a cheap date - as far as the Conservatives are concerned you don't even really need to change any policies to woo these folks. Just show up at the local events, send out mailers marking the relevant holidays, allow local community leaders to feel important by showing up at their invitations and letting them take pictures with you, have government ministers drop by. The general sense one got listening to the Tories was that these were reliable voting blocs who mostly cared about symbolic issues on which the Tories had no issue. Prior to 2011 the only way a Conservative majority government could be formed in Canada was by winning a bunch of seats in Quebec. Harper was very focused on this during his first couple terms in office. Then the Conservatives realized that instead of chasing fickle Quebecois voters who wanted all kinds of policy concessions (and who were still unreliable, and very out of line with what the rest of the Conservative coalition out in Alberta and the West wanted) they could swap them out for New Canadians who had previously been solid Liberal voters. In essence those ethnic votes are the third leg of the conservative electoral stool now.
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Jun 9, 2018 00:48
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It's weird how angry Ontarians get about former Liberal MP Bob Rae. I've certainly seen worse out of the LPC.
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Jun 9, 2018 00:59
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Premier Doug Ford. Brother of Rob, son of Doug, second of his name.
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Jun 9, 2018 01:01
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people fuckin love cheap gas and beer
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Jun 9, 2018 01:05
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RBC posted:people fuckin love cheap gas and beer But at what cost, Royal Bank of Canada? but at what cost?????
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Jun 9, 2018 01:08
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THC posted:What the gently caress? That woman sounds like a massive oval office Nice slur
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Jun 9, 2018 01:08
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Neeber posted:This is all compounded by the Fox News levels of disinformation coming out of Chinese AM radio/Fairchild TV. How do I convince my parents and the rest of their generation to collectively stop loving over their children and future grand children? My dude, if your parents are immigrant Chinese I'm surprised you are even asking this question. Figured you'd know better by now. Just wait it out. That's really the only answer.
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Jun 9, 2018 01:10
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vyelkin posted:We can take a first pass based on total vote counts. I found this interesting and plotted Ontario election results back to the beginning of the dreaded Rae era:   Engaging in a little uninformed interpretation, the main trends appear to be: -the Liberals and NDP broadly seem to be chasing the same voters -Conservative support is very consistent, especially as a fraction of the vote Honestly the most recent election seems to be a strong endorsement of the conservatives by Ontario voters. They achieved a respectable fraction of the vote and overall turnout was up. I'm guessing Ford and the specter of a conservative majority spurred a lot of people to vote who might have otherwise not bothered. Also Liberal and NDP voters would probably be better served by a PR voting system. edit: haha did the Conservatives just receive the most votes ever for any political party in Ontario's history?
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Jun 9, 2018 01:16
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James Baud fucked around with this message at 11:57 on Aug 25, 2018 |
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Jun 9, 2018 01:25
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The Butcher posted:My dude, if your parents are immigrant Chinese I'm surprised you are even asking this question. Figured you'd know better by now.
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Jun 9, 2018 01:27
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Actual content: traditional Chinese avoid talking about difficult subjects as much as possible so good luck trying to even engage them never mind change their mind about contentious things. Tax cuts don't count cause that's just mo money which is mo betta
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Jun 9, 2018 01:28
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Neeber posted:Has there been any political research done for engaging older Canadian Asians in left-leaning politics? The resources I've found online mostly refer to Asian American apolitical-ness but my experience with the the Chinese communities in Markham and Scarborough is that the older generation consistently turns out and goes hard for the PCs because all that matters to them is tax cuts and fear of social change (as demonstrated by the landslides in Scarborough North and Markham ridings). Nobody gives a gently caress about community services and anyone left of center is automatically written off as crazy since they're either from the original wave of HK immigrants running from the '97 handover to China, or the nouveau riche mainlanders that have arrived more lately. The FYGM attitude prevalent among the community is out of this world. If it's any consolation Fairchild has been teetering on the brink of bankruptcy for years. Other Chinese radio has shut down though maybe that's been replaced with web forums, WeChat etc? However, it seems the next federal election will see the CPC get huge Chinese votes because from what I have seen a lot of Chinese people are super pissed about pot legalization.
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Jun 9, 2018 01:29
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the talent deficit posted:people vote for values not platforms or people. what are the values the ndp hold forth? To be fair, the preamble to their constitution is pretty wishy-washy. https://www.ontariondp.ca/sites/default/files/constitution_and_by-laws_ondp_2017_final.pdf quote:It will endeavour to establish in this So apparently their values are "substituting economic planning for irresponsible control", "the extension of freedom", "the abolition of poverty" and "the elimination of exploitation". OK, Abolishing poverty is pretty solid. But the rest of those? You could use the same words to describe neoliberal or conservative values without any loss in accuracy.
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Jun 9, 2018 01:31
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The Butcher posted:My dude, if your parents are immigrant Chinese I'm surprised you are even asking this question. Figured you'd know better by now. I got mine to vote NDP at least, but we live in Markham so that was essentially throwing our votes away.
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Jun 9, 2018 01:34
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James Baud posted:IMO the average millennial is all for union busting too because anything seniority-based is a barrier, not security, for at least the first couple decades of a career. You can't count on the benefits not being stripped from you before you get to collect when all those other voters feel the same way. The fragility in legislation I think is one of the biggest problems from all the recent political back and forth. Why bother accounting for the long term benefits of some kind of pension program when the next party in power will just waltz in and reverse everything? If we can't make legislation stick for longer than one term then of course all people are going to care about is short term gains like tax cuts because that's all you can actually rely on these days.
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Jun 9, 2018 01:40
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Woke leftists or whatever will eventually learn that even if some Socal Asians call themselves PoC all day, Chinese Canadians as a voting bloc are not an ally lol
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Jun 9, 2018 01:47
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Eej posted:Woke leftists or whatever will eventually learn that even if some Socal Asians call themselves PoC all day, Chinese Canadians as a voting bloc are not an ally lol LOL if you think the woke bae leftist brigade will ever abandon their opinion that everything bad is the fault of white rurals.
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Jun 9, 2018 01:54
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UnknownMercenary posted:I got mine to vote NDP at least, but we live in Markham so that was essentially throwing our votes away. Mine both voted liberal and legit thought they had a chance in Markham. Grilled me before the results came in for not "voting strategically", but they now know that nothing matters.
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Jun 9, 2018 02:04
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THC posted:What the gently caress? That woman sounds like a massive oval office She's a nice woman... but views political parties more like sports teams if you know what I mean. The Butcher posted:My dude, if your parents are immigrant Chinese I'm surprised you are even asking this question. Figured you'd know better by now. Welp. dev286 posted:If it's any consolation Fairchild has been teetering on the brink of bankruptcy for years. Other Chinese radio has shut down though maybe that's been replaced with web forums, WeChat etc? The sooner Fairchild goes under the better. Who needs 2 year old dramas when you can just use Kodo. And yeah pot legalization is one of those single issue buttons the CPC are gonna push hard. According to my parents, occasionally smoking weed is somehow as bad as doing crack. I heard poo poo tons of that type of demonizing on the AM channels during the 2015 federal election. Must be some leftover cultural scars from the Opium wars...
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Jun 9, 2018 02:32
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Neeber posted:And yeah pot legalization is one of those single issue buttons the CPC are gonna push hard. According to my parents, occasionally smoking weed is somehow as bad as doing crack. I heard poo poo tons of that type of demonizing on the AM channels during the 2015 federal election. Must be some leftover cultural scars from the Opium wars... I'd say people or don't hold grudges over stuff that old but Trump literally referenced the war of 1812 to Trudeau like two days ago so
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Jun 9, 2018 02:44
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Well, it's less the Opium Wars themselves and more opium itself because holy poo poo did that stuff wreck China. Though I guess there's a parallel in that it's the But yeah, it's not so much a grudge specifically but the historical awareness of how opium was so devastating for China.
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Jun 9, 2018 02:58
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A lot of milennials I know voted for Ford. One was a cop so he votes for whoever supports the police and the rest just saw what the NDP did in BC With gas being 2 bucks a litre and ran from the NDP. As for me I voted for the NDP but I've begun to seriously doubt whether a socialist government can function in a globalized economy where your labour dollar competes with people who can work for a 1/5th of your wages abroad.
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Jun 9, 2018 03:28
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Kraftwerk posted:A lot of milennials I know voted for Ford. One was a cop so he votes for whoever supports the police and the rest just saw what the NDP did in BC With gas being 2 bucks a litre and ran from the NDP. We'd have to see an actual set of numbers because if we're going to trade anecdotes I know very few millenials who voted for Doug Ford.
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Jun 9, 2018 03:33
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I like how the projected $2/L gas narrative is somehow blamed on the BCNDP going through with their mandate of stopping the pipeline instead of being blamed on the Albertan NDP threatening to either destroy either the BC economy or coastline.
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Jun 9, 2018 03:33
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Eej posted:I like how the projected $2/L gas narrative is somehow blamed on the BCNDP going through with their mandate of stopping the pipeline instead of being blamed on the Albertan NDP threatening to either destroy either the BC economy or coastline. I tried explaining this to a coworker today and felt like I was speaking in alien tongues based on the look I kept getting.
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Jun 9, 2018 03:42
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Kraftwerk posted:what the NDP did in BC With gas being 2 bucks a litre Uh, what?
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Jun 9, 2018 03:55
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I can't wait for the KM pipeline to simultaneously destroy the economy and the environment and still somehow failing to keep either the ANDP or Trudeau in power. It's going to be a massive poisoned apple for everyone who bites it.
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Jun 9, 2018 03:56
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Helsing posted:The liberals are a party of big business that very closely aligns to the values of white collar upper income professionals, plus a bunch of machine politics style connections to certain demographic slices of the population, and while this configuration has recently lead to centre left policies they're still a bourgie party that fundamentally exists to defend the interests of people in the upper class. dev286 posted:from what I have seen a lot of Chinese people are super pissed about pot legalization. Wait, why?
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Jun 9, 2018 03:56
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