|
Should I disable Agents in Rome 2? Or at least limit them to 1 per faction? I just started a Lusitani campaign and my main stack has been getting decimated by a 5 star spy which keeps constantly poisoning my troops whenever I try to move outside my province and it's getting annoying. My own spy had like an 8% chance of doing anything to him lol I last got to endgame back in like 2016, but I know there's been a number of balance patches since then - does it ever get less silly?
|
#
?
Jun 8, 2018 00:41
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 1, 2024 09:43 |
|
|
Kenzie posted:Yeah and the matched animations meant that you couldn't have 2v1 or 3v1 fights right? Every fight turned into a bunch of locked one-on-one duels while the animations played out, while it should be about teamwork and formation fighting instead. In a real fight, if you are standing in the middle of a big formation, the biggest threat is not the enemy right in front of you. You can easily parry or block his attacks, since he's the one you're paying attention to the most. The biggest threat is the enemy two ranks down the line, since he can look over and see you distracted by the guy in front of you, and then he can reach over with his long spear and jab you in the face while you're not looking. Yeah, this was most apparent in Shogun 2 siege battles, you could have 500 guys surrounding 1 guy on the final point and they would patiently wait for their turn to 1v1 him. Since it was the final point, he would fight to the death and could sometimes kill dozens of guys due to rng. Rome 2 fixed this a bit by having both matched animations and generic attacks. It no longer happens in Warhammer. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CCuQjAuu3ZY I quickly tried to find a video example, but that's the best I could come up with. Edit: I found a better example https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iTHu1ECocOs Azran posted:Should I disable Agents in Rome 2? Or at least limit them to 1 per faction? I just started a Lusitani campaign and my main stack has been getting decimated by a 5 star spy which keeps constantly poisoning my troops whenever I try to move outside my province and it's getting annoying. My own spy had like an 8% chance of doing anything to him lol I last got to endgame back in like 2016, but I know there's been a number of balance patches since then - does it ever get less silly? I just disable agents for the ai and never touch them. Dramicus fucked around with this message at 04:14 on Jun 8, 2018 |
|
#
?
Jun 8, 2018 04:08
|
|
|
Dramicus posted:Yeah, this was most apparent in Shogun 2 siege battles, you could have 500 guys surrounding 1 guy on the final point and they would patiently wait for their turn to 1v1 him. Since it was the final point, he would fight to the death and could sometimes kill dozens of guys due to rng. Rome 2 fixed this a bit by having both matched animations and generic attacks. It no longer happens in Warhammer. Did they have matched animations in the older games? I've always wondered how they did large monsters in the Lord of the Rings mod for Medieval 2, despite that game not having HP pools so one good roll means dead dragon. If every fight was 1v1 then those large monsters would last a lot longer than if everyone was free to gang up on them and spam attacks at once.
|
|
#
?
Jun 8, 2018 04:42
|
|
|
The Cheshire Cat posted:Did they have matched animations in the older games? I've always wondered how they did large monsters in the Lord of the Rings mod for Medieval 2, despite that game not having HP pools so one good roll means dead dragon. If every fight was 1v1 then those large monsters would last a lot longer than if everyone was free to gang up on them and spam attacks at once. No, the older games were just guys swinging at the closest model. You could have 1 v as many as could reach. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4qiS4dg4OLY You can see at the 12 minute mark.
|
|
#
?
Jun 8, 2018 04:51
|
|
|
The Cheshire Cat posted:Did they have matched animations in the older games? I've always wondered how they did large monsters in the Lord of the Rings mod for Medieval 2, despite that game not having HP pools so one good roll means dead dragon. If every fight was 1v1 then those large monsters would last a lot longer than if everyone was free to gang up on them and spam attacks at once. You still had hitpoints in the older games. It's just that almost all had 1 hitpoint. With a very few exceptions like elephants having multiple. All the conquistador units also had 2 or more hitpoints in the Americas campaign for M2 as well IIRC
|
|
#
?
Jun 8, 2018 05:16
|
|
|
Azran posted:Should I disable Agents in Rome 2? Or at least limit them to 1 per faction? I just started a Lusitani campaign and my main stack has been getting decimated by a 5 star spy which keeps constantly poisoning my troops whenever I try to move outside my province and it's getting annoying. My own spy had like an 8% chance of doing anything to him lol I last got to endgame back in like 2016, but I know there's been a number of balance patches since then - does it ever get less silly? DeI sorts this by getting rid of the ability to just ruin stacks with poison specced spies and greatly lowering the assassinate chance. Spies are pretty much only used to scout and delay enemy armies which I think works nicely. e: speaking of, the next big DeI update is in beta atm and you can grab it from TWC. It visually overhauls Rome and properly overhauls Carthage and their custom India faction. It also has a bunch of campaign updates like changing your capital, making Pella and some Gaulic capital into special capitals and overhauling mercenaries to make them more viable as permanent troops rather than temporary troops. The Carthage update seems interesting so far, they get a similar auxilliary system as rome but its all based around regional mercenaries so until your first reform your core troops are weak (apart from recruit anywhere early elephants!! and decent armoured cavalry) but if you build a mercenary barracks you can recruit a varied roster of souped up mercs as well as hiring cheap mercenaries through the regular system to quickly raise armies. They also seem to get a building tree I haven't explored much of basically local districts, so like Greek District, African District etc that give you lots of + growth and also buff your relations with that particular culture. So I could see some cool use for it like building Greek districts to get them to gang up with you on Rome or invade Gual and build a province full of Gaulic districts to pacify the locals. Communist Thoughts fucked around with this message at 17:48 on Jun 8, 2018 |
|
#
?
Jun 8, 2018 17:38
|
|
|
Randarkman posted:You still had hitpoints in the older games. It's just that almost all had 1 hitpoint. With a very few exceptions like elephants having multiple. All the conquistador units also had 2 or more hitpoints in the Americas campaign for M2 as well IIRC They also had a similar "bonus vs large" mechanic, so Elephants would die quickly to javelins, but not as quickly to normal infantry.
|
|
#
?
Jun 8, 2018 19:03
|
|
|
The trick to elephants was to use flaming arrows/pigs one them so they can rampage through their own lines with as many hitpoints as possible. 
|
|
#
?
Jun 8, 2018 19:39
|
|
|
You haven't played Rome 1 if you hadn't fought a custom battle that was all elephants on one side and all flaming pigs on the other. Or all flaming pigs vs all peasant mobs.
|
|
#
?
Jun 8, 2018 20:29
|
|
|
We have gameplay. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jQX6qBiCu9E
|
|
#
?
Jun 8, 2018 20:34
|
|
|
Wow the army grouping really is way different
|
|
#
?
Jun 8, 2018 20:38
|
|
|
It's a press release of a premade battle, but it looks like there might be multiple commanders per army and different commanders recruit different units?
|
|
#
?
Jun 8, 2018 20:42
|
|
|
They mentioned in one of the other previews that there'll be multiple generals again, so that part for sure. This all looks really amazing, and it's not even necessarily a bad thing but I do think with so much emphasis on characters, it's likely the game will be limited to just China proper? I don't see how they can extend the same flavor to regions outside China that we don't have so much recorded from, which is a shame since I was hoping to get to play as Korean and Vietnamese factions.
|
|
#
?
Jun 8, 2018 20:48
|
|
|
Some Pedantic Complaints: Narrator can't pronounce "Xia". Also counterweight trebuchets are a thousand years early and wall breaches almost never happened in Chinese siege battles - battles instead focused on the gates. Game is unrealistic, will not preorder. /s Mantis42 fucked around with this message at 20:53 on Jun 8, 2018 |
|
#
?
Jun 8, 2018 20:48
|
|
|
Welp, guess it's time to buy a new computer.
|
|
#
?
Jun 8, 2018 20:51
|
|
|
Units look a fair bit smaller than in the screenshots, could just be settings though. I was kinda hoping they'd do some tech shenanigans to have bigger armies to show off the huge Chinese armies of the period
|
|
#
?
Jun 8, 2018 20:54
|
|
|
Hi, hello, I haven't really been following this game and I don't know much about 3 Kingdoms. Is Pontus in it?
|
|
#
?
Jun 8, 2018 20:54
|
|
|
It is. And it's quite benevolent.
|
|
#
?
Jun 8, 2018 20:58
|
|
|
Hallucinogenic Toreador posted:Welp, guess it's time to buy a new computer. ...Maybe system requirements won't be that beyond Warhammer. I can hope. At least I have a decent graphic card. I actually wonder what the dudes over on TWC think about this, I am curious, I remember back when I was a teenager and actually read and posted on that forum that alot of them were always clamoring for Three Kingdoms.
|
|
#
?
Jun 8, 2018 21:03
|
|
|
It looks drat good.
|
|
|
#
?
Jun 8, 2018 21:04
|
|
|
First mods I'm installing: 4x unit size. Chinese names. I'm not gonna have any idea what anything is and my PC will burst into flames but it will be AUTHENTIC damnit
|
|
#
?
Jun 8, 2018 21:05
|
|
|
Mordja posted:Hi, hello, I haven't really been following this game and I don't know much about 3 Kingdoms. Is Pontus in it? You're in luck! The "three kingdoms" actually refers to the three states of: the kingdom of Pontus, Cappadocia-by-the-Pontus, and Bithynia et Pontus. This time, you have to play as Pontus.
|
|
#
?
Jun 8, 2018 21:05
|
|
|
Holy gently caress, the axe troops looked vicious in combat, the animations seem really good. Edit: "Here is a unit of cavalry. We are going to charge them into this unit of spears." https://tubedubber.com/?q=jQX6qBiCu9E:MS55Laq5n3U:0:100:0:0:1 I hope to god we can get a soundtrack mod. Dramicus fucked around with this message at 21:36 on Jun 8, 2018 |
|
#
?
Jun 8, 2018 21:09
|
|
|
Dramicus posted:Holy gently caress, the axe troops looked vicious in combat, the animations seem really good. They may have been lovely spears, and they weren't in any kind of closed formation. There's plenty of examples in history of cavalry attacking and defeating spear-armed troops, spears being the ultimate counter against cavalry is very much a game thing (and don't get me started at swords being the counter against spears) and not really a real thing. Spears are versatile weapons good on both the attack and the defense because of their reach and versatility and the ease of using them in formation. Sure you have units of heavy infantry, more often than not armed with spears, withstanding cavalry charges, but that does seem to have more to with presenting a dense sort of solid obstacle that it's hard to make horses charge into (the spears facilitate fighting in such a formation though). When you see cavalry actually being more or less directly countered in battles it seems to more often be with cavalry, skirmishers or massed missile weapons (crossbows were the preferred method of the Chinese to deal with steppe nomads, that and employing steppe nomad cavalry of their own). Anyway... enough about that, it was probably just a trailer and a lovely spear unit attacked by an elite cav unit. They will most likely keep the old RTS rock-paper-scissors weapon strengths. Sadly I say, I don't mind it being rock-paper-scissors, but I'd really love to see spears move out of the ghetto of just being defensive troops you use to fend off cavalry, when properly they should be the most versatile infantry you have, able to fulfill many different roles.
|
|
#
?
Jun 8, 2018 21:51
|
|
|
Randarkman posted:Anyway... enough about that, it was probably just a trailer and a lovely spear unit attacked by an elite cav unit. They will most likely keep the old RTS rock-paper-scissors weapon strengths. Sadly I say, I don't mind it being rock-paper-scissors, but I'd really love to see spears move out of the ghetto of just being defensive troops you use to fend off cavalry, when properly they should be the most versatile infantry you have, able to fulfill many different roles. In Shogun 2 campaign, Yari Samurai were probably the best all-round melee troops to bring as they were armored, could withstand cavalry charges and would do decently well against sword infantry, giving you enough time to flank anything you couldn't outright defeat. Katana Samurai absolutely melted to cav charges.
|
|
#
?
Jun 8, 2018 21:57
|
|
|
Mantis42 posted:We have gameplay. Those mid-battle insults are Dynasty Warriors as gently caress. Zhang Liao  And the Xiahou Dun-Lu Bu duel is everything I hoped for with the general duels. Hopefully if you jack Lu Bu's horse and spear your ingame model actually changes to include them-- Warhammer was kinda disappointing in that regard.
|
|
#
?
Jun 8, 2018 22:08
|
|
|
normally eschew capital letters, always got marks taken off in school... so this is rare... YOU CAN KILL LU BU AND WEAR HIS loving HAT!!!! I AM GONNA WEAR THE gently caress OUT OF THAT HAT!!!!
|
|
#
?
Jun 8, 2018 22:51
|
|
|
Dramicus posted:Yeah, this was most apparent in Shogun 2 siege battles, you could have 500 guys surrounding 1 guy on the final point and they would patiently wait for their turn to 1v1 him. Since it was the final point, he would fight to the death and could sometimes kill dozens of guys due to rng. Rome 2 fixed this a bit by having both matched animations and generic attacks. It no longer happens in Warhammer. Honestly, it was hilarious and thematic. 1v1 Honorable Duels only, gun-wielding gaijin go home
|
|
#
?
Jun 8, 2018 23:19
|
|
|
Dramicus posted:In Shogun 2 campaign, Yari Samurai were probably the best all-round melee troops to bring as they were armored, could withstand cavalry charges and would do decently well against sword infantry, giving you enough time to flank anything you couldn't outright defeat. Katana Samurai absolutely melted to cav charges. This is the one thing that really annoyed me about Shogun 2. Cavalry ended up being pretty useless because the basic unit backbone of every army was also a strong counter to them. I mean sure, I guess you could lock down a yari unit with infantry and then bring cav around for a rear charge, but that's throwing two units, one of which is probably fairly expensive, in to deal with a basic ashigaru unit. It's easier to just bring lots of archers and let them deal with things than to micromanage a bunch of mounted units to get mileage out of them while also not getting wrecked by spears.
|
|
#
?
Jun 8, 2018 23:26
|
|
|
Cavalry was good for taking out the enemy general and harassing their archers.
|
|
#
?
Jun 8, 2018 23:39
|
|
|
nopantsjack posted:First mods I'm installing: 4x unit size. Chinese names. The Laboratory from Warhammer 2 only you can apply it to entire campaigns instead of just custom battles.
|
|
#
?
Jun 8, 2018 23:42
|
|
|
Dramicus posted:In Shogun 2 campaign, Yari Samurai were probably the best all-round melee troops to bring as they were armored, could withstand cavalry charges and would do decently well against sword infantry, giving you enough time to flank anything you couldn't outright defeat. Katana Samurai absolutely melted to cav charges. I reckon yari samurai are terrible, they lose a one-on-one fight with ashigaru who are in spear-wall formation.
|
|
#
?
Jun 9, 2018 02:18
|
|
|
Krazyface posted:I reckon yari samurai are terrible, they lose a one-on-one fight with ashigaru who are in spear-wall formation. Most units lose one-on-one against a spear-wall in Shogun 2.
|
|
#
?
Jun 9, 2018 03:17
|
|
|
Krazyface posted:I reckon yari samurai are terrible, they lose a one-on-one fight with ashigaru who are in spear-wall formation. The point was they're more flexible and useful in a wide variety of situations. Being best all around doesn't mean that you win 100% of fights, especially against enemies that are set up specifically to beat you or at least hold the line. Aside from 1v1 with the ashigaru in a spear wall, what else are ashigaru better at? Less armor, worse melee stats, no speed buff, worse morale. I'd rather have the samurai. And drat Three Kingdoms looks good. I'm really glad they are willing to mix things up so much. I'm interested to see what they do with the campaign gameplay.
|
|
#
?
Jun 9, 2018 03:25
|
|
|
the real problem with yari samurai is that naginatas did all the same things but better except being slower and a little more expensive
|
|
#
?
Jun 9, 2018 04:23
|
|
|
StashAugustine posted:the real problem with yari samurai is that naginatas did all the same things but better except being slower and a little more expensive They actually perform worse against katana samurai than yaris. Do some 1v1 tests and you will be surprised.
|
|
#
?
Jun 9, 2018 05:23
|
|
|
I keep 2-3 yari samurai on hand to cover my flanks before I can wheel the ashigaru line around to poke things to death. Oda supremacy
|
|
#
?
Jun 9, 2018 06:17
|
|
|
Mantis42 posted:We have gameplay. oh my god 
|
|
#
?
Jun 9, 2018 06:40
|
|
|
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zACljAqjwm8 Just in case someone remains stubborn about matched animations.
|
|
#
?
Jun 9, 2018 09:39
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 1, 2024 09:43 |
|
|
That is one hilarious disciplined gun crew. They even politely move the gun around to not get in the way.
|
|
|
#
?
Jun 9, 2018 14:09
|
|