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archangelwar posted:Given that I am a vocal proponent of 2A repeal and gun confiscation (in this thread no less), you might want to put more effort into your strawbabies.
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Jun 9, 2018 05:22
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Elizabethan Error posted:hmm yes people killing wildlife under cover over darkness must be an upstanding thing and not shady at all, no sir - archangelwar, 2018 A lot of animals like beaver, boar and deer are only active during the night, which means that that's the best time to hunt them. So yeah, killing wildlife under the cover of darkness doesn't mean you're shady.
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Jun 9, 2018 13:39
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Flowers For Algeria posted:No. What? Do you eat meat or not? Either way you are a dumb gently caress that knows nothing about hunting.
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Jun 9, 2018 18:18
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Hunting is a win/win/win as far as I'm concerned. Animal populations get controlled, people get cheap meat, governments get licensing fees. Being anti-hunting is really dumb. But you don't need 100-round drum magazines (or hell, even a gun) to hunt.
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Jun 9, 2018 18:33
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patonthebach posted:What?  hunting is one of the issues that hobby animal rights enthusiasts with no clue about population ecology have tons of opinions about, and nearly all those opinions are just as terrible as (if not more terrible than) the opinions of the most idiotic macho hunters, which is sort of an achievement if you think about it
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Jun 9, 2018 18:35
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I CANNOT EJACULATE WITHOUT SEEING NATIVE AMERICANS BRUTALISED!
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WampaLord posted:But you don't need 100-round drum magazines (or hell, even a gun) to hunt. Guns arent legal in the united states for hunting.
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Jun 9, 2018 18:59
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WampaLord posted:Being anti-hunting for food is really dumb.
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Jun 9, 2018 19:08
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Elizabethan Error posted:ftfy, sport and trophy hunting should die out Yea, I thought about editing that in but I hoped that it would be obvious when I said "people get cheap meat" as one of the wins. Obviously hunting for non-food reasons is stupid as gently caress.
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Jun 9, 2018 19:13
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WampaLord posted:Hunting is a win/win/win as far as I'm concerned. Even better, there are tons of ways it can fit into a post-gun control world making it one of the weakest arguments against even full blown confiscation.
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Jun 9, 2018 19:29
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WampaLord posted:Obviously hunting for non-food reasons is stupid as gently caress. I'd also add on overpopulation (deer), animals damaging the local enviroment (boar) to that. Even if they leave 100 boar rotting in the sun like a buffalo on the plains you're helping to keep their population down and make the local bioculture more healthy (which they absolutely destroy). Killing boar should be taught to every american child. (Plus, they are quite tasty)
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Jun 9, 2018 19:47
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Iron Croissant 64 posted:Guns arent legal in the united states for hunting. Yet gun-nuts will inevitably bring up hunting as being one of the reasons that everyone needs to be able to buy an AR-15 People are who in favor of gun control generally don't give a gently caress about hunting (obviously some do, human existence being a continuum of different opinions and viewpoints)
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Jun 9, 2018 20:16
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QuarkJets posted:Yet gun-nuts will inevitably bring up hunting as being one of the reasons that everyone needs to be able to buy an AR-15 Yea thats dumb. The AR15 is a popular rifle that works perfectly well for hunting, but im comfortable attempting to hunt with a bow and spear so its not a matter of convenience. If you must use a gun there are plenty of other great options. The AR15 is for killing humans. Thats ok. It can be ok when humans die. Iron Croissant 64 fucked around with this message at 04:11 on Jun 10, 2018 |
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Jun 9, 2018 20:22
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Iron Croissant 64 posted:Yea thats dumb. The AR15 is a popuar rifle that works perfectly well for hunting, but im comfortable attempting to hunt with a bow and spear so its not a matter of convenience. If you must use a gun there are plenty of other great options. The AR15 is for killing humans. Thats ok. It can be ok when humans die. Interesting that you worded it as 'when humans die' rather than outright saying it can be ok to kill humans. I guess even you realize how that would make it clear you shouldn't have a gun.
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Jun 9, 2018 20:27
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Iron Croissant 64 posted:Yea thats dumb. The AR15 is a popuar rifle that works perfectly well for hunting, but im comfortable attempting to hunt with a bow and spear so its not a matter of convenience. If you must use a gun there are plenty of other great options. The AR15 is for killing humans. Thats ok. It can be ok when humans die. the assault rifle 15 rounds per second should be confiscated and melted down, as should your posts
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Jun 9, 2018 20:43
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Iron Croissant 64 posted:Yea thats dumb. The AR15 is a popuar rifle that works perfectly well for hunting, but im comfortable attempting to hunt with a bow and spear so its not a matter of convenience. If you must use a gun there are plenty of other great options. The AR15 is for killing humans. Thats ok. It can be ok when humans die. It can be ok when humans die but we should take reasonable measures to prevent meaningless deaths, right? For instance if there was a toaster on the market that turned out to be violently killing 1% of its owners (sometimes when you want to toast something it just explodes instead) then I'd expect that design flaw to get fixed, at the very least. If you had a family member die to one of these exploding toasters I doubt you'd just shrug your shoulders and say "it can be ok when humans die" America's gun control is full of design flaws.
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Jun 9, 2018 20:49
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QuarkJets posted:It can be ok when humans die but we should take reasonable measures to prevent meaningless deaths, right? For instance if there was a toaster on the market that turned out to be violently killing 1% of its owners (sometimes when you want to toast something it just explodes instead) then I'd expect that design flaw to get fixed, at the very least. If you had a family member die to one of these exploding toasters I doubt you'd just shrug your shoulders and say "it can be ok when humans die" Yes, 1 percent would be a serious problem. Stats are hard to find here so lets say that every rifle death each year is an AR15 model killing its owner (somewhere in the 400s each year. I'm using 471 which is an average of the last few years). There are something like as little as 8 million million Armalite models in circulation right now and as many as 15 million, so if you think my figures are anything like correct (feel free to point out where i am wrong. i welcome being corrected) that comes out somewhere between and 0.00005% and 0.00002% of AR15s killing anyone each year, let alone their owners. That number of zeros to the right of the decimal leads me to believe either I've made a serious math failure while being extremely generous in formulation , or gun violence with rifles is not a serious problem in america. Edit: Holy poo poo i said "Popuar" instead of "Popular" earlier. *gunshot noise* Iron Croissant 64 fucked around with this message at 04:12 on Jun 10, 2018 |
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Jun 10, 2018 03:51
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patonthebach posted:What? Of course I don’t eat meat, I’m not a savage. That doesn’t make me a vegan, you ignorant oaf. Anyway lol at all the people who suggest relying the invisible hand of the free hunters to manage animal populations. If and when animal populations start causing a problem, the State should assess it and have competent and dispassionate civil servants deal with it. But I’m not really surprised that in a country where gun nuts make the laws about guns, you’d all find normal that hunters make the laws about hunting.
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Jun 10, 2018 10:23
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Iron Croissant 64 posted:Yes, 1 percent would be a serious problem. Stats are hard to find here so lets say that every rifle death each year is an AR15 model killing its owner (somewhere in the 400s each year. I'm using 471 which is an average of the last few years). There are something like as little as 8 million million Armalite models in circulation right now and as many as 15 million, so if you think my figures are anything like correct (feel free to point out where i am wrong. i welcome being corrected) that comes out somewhere between and 0.00005% and 0.00002% of AR15s killing anyone each year, let alone their owners. That number of zeros to the right of the decimal leads me to believe either I've made a serious math failure while being extremely generous in formulation , or gun violence with rifles is not a serious problem in america. Even one supernumerary death is supernumerary. Ban and melt all guns and hang their owners imo.
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Jun 10, 2018 10:30
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Flowers For Algeria posted:Of course I don’t eat meat, I’m not a savage. That doesn’t make me a vegan, you ignorant oaf.  quote:Anyway lol at all the people who suggest relying the invisible hand of the free hunters to manage animal populations. If and when animal populations start causing a problem, the State should assess it and have competent and dispassionate civil servants deal with it. Civil servants set hunting quotas, civil service hunters would need to be paid wages, whereas hunting licenses bring in fees. Just because you think hunters are invariably subhuman scum doesn't mean they can't be useful.
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Jun 10, 2018 11:20
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Flowers For Algeria posted:Even one supernumerary death is supernumerary. Ban and melt all guns and hang their owners imo. If Ameriguns were a minor cause of death e.g. on the order of lightning strikes then I'd argue any effort spent on legislating them is a betrayal of the victims of every bigger cause of death until all those causes have been addressed (protip: there will always be causes of death that outweigh lightning strikes; life invariably ends in death even after reasonable safety precautions are taken, meaning that very minor causes of death would usually remain below the "needs legislation against it" threshold). In reality guns are a much bigger problem than lightning strikes but using "one death is one death too many, now do something about this one death" as a basis for policy is a myopic view for idiots. suck my woke dick fucked around with this message at 11:29 on Jun 10, 2018 |
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Jun 10, 2018 11:27
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suck my woke dick posted:civil service hunters would need to be paid wages, oh no! jobs! 
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Jun 10, 2018 11:35
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botany posted:oh no! jobs! well instead of hunters we could employ people to do other useful things like control invasive plants or manage succession of ecosystems with the hunting fees oh no! even more jobs! (this is literally what was being done in americaland until hunting started becoming unfashionable)
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Jun 10, 2018 11:41
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suck my woke dick posted:well instead of hunters we could employ people to do other useful things like control invasive plants or manage succession of ecosystems with the hunting fees you realize you could just do both, right? it's not like the US is running out of unemployed people.
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Jun 10, 2018 11:43
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Flowers For Algeria posted:If and when animal populations start causing a problem, the State should assess it and have competent and dispassionate civil servants deal with it. That's really stupid and creates pointless middlemen for no good reason at all. Also loving lmao at "if and when" you need to look up some animal population statistics dude. Like I'm pro gun control as gently caress but you're just being needlessly hostile to hunters because you disagree with them on a cultural level. Honestly hunting chat in general is kind of pointless because as we all agreed earlier, you don't even need a gun to hunt. WampaLord fucked around with this message at 11:48 on Jun 10, 2018 |
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Jun 10, 2018 11:45
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botany posted:you realize you could just do both, right? it's not like the US is running out of unemployed people. Yeah but given that conservation authorities don't usually get DoD style boatloads of cash 1) they can stretch their usually insufficient budgets further and 2) even if they did get more funding in the future there'd be no specific reason to replace hobby hunters with civil service paid hunters as long as the hobby hunters follow the quota. e: of course, there is a specific reason to people like Flowers of Algeria who think anyone who shoots an animal without being paid by the state to do so (before wiping away tears of regret with the Mk2 Mod1 standard issue civil service outdoor duty handkerchief) is a  BLOODTHIRSTY MONSTER THAT MUST BE STOPPED but quite honestly not entertaining that level of idiocy is good policy in itself
suck my woke dick fucked around with this message at 11:48 on Jun 10, 2018 |
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Jun 10, 2018 11:46
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suck my woke dick posted:Yeah but given that conservation authorities don't usually get DoD style boatloads of cash 1) they can stretch their usually insufficient budgets further and 2) even if they did get more funding in the future there'd be no specific reason to replace hobby hunters with civil service paid hunters as long as the hobby hunters follow the quota. the reason is that requiring state certified hunters would be an additional form of gun control, keeping firearms out of the hands of private citizens. of course the real problem with this is that subsistence hunting is still a thing in the US in certain parts, so it's unworkable in practice.
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Jun 10, 2018 11:58
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botany posted:the reason is that requiring state certified hunters would be an additional form of gun control, keeping firearms out of the hands of private citizens. of course the real problem with this is that subsistence hunting is still a thing in the US in certain parts, so it's unworkable in practice. Lots of actually civilised countries (plus Britain) still let hunters and sports shooters buy long guns and shotguns without having anywhere close to America levels of people shooting each other. As already mentioned, people who own long guns for a specific reason are not typically the cause of gun violence. suck my woke dick fucked around with this message at 12:06 on Jun 10, 2018 |
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Jun 10, 2018 12:02
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suck my woke dick posted:So either you eat carrion (congrats on having a digestive system that can take rotting flesh and/or several grams of daily antibiotics) or you steal the milk and eggs and other products of innocent animals suck my woke dick posted:Civil servants set hunting quotas, civil service hunters would need to be paid wages, whereas hunting licenses bring in fees. WampaLord posted:That's really stupid and creates pointless middlemen for no good reason at all. I'm not opposed to hunting because guns, I'm opposed to hunting as a hobby because anyone who derives pleasure from destroying lifeforms is a monster who should be reeducated. Sorry if I'm hostile towards people like this. (I said "if and when" because I know it is inevitable, but animal populations are not causing problems literally everywhere all the time friend) suck my woke dick posted:e: of course, there is a specific reason to people like Flowers of Algeria who think anyone who shoots an animal without being paid by the state to do so (before wiping away tears of regret with the Mk2 Mod1 standard issue civil service outdoor duty handkerchief) is a
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Jun 10, 2018 13:04
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Flowers For Algeria posted:I'm not opposed to hunting because guns, I'm opposed to hunting as a hobby because anyone who derives pleasure from destroying lifeforms is a monster who should be reeducated. Sorry if I'm hostile towards people like this. You have a really messed up relationship to animals, viewing them as basically very hairy people with a special moral status requiring they must be protected against the threat of degenerates instead of as a component of ecosystems which eats and gets eaten by other organisms which may include humans (I also assume by "lifeforms" you also don't count e.g. herbs and mushrooms, otherwise brb opening a League of Shroom Destruction).Apart from that anyone who wants to legislate acts based on the assumed morality of whoever commited them (civil servants shooting guns at deer on the clock = a-ok because surely they are stoic in carrying out this unfortunate duty, dirty degenerates who must be bloodthirsty monsters enjoying deer murder on their day off = ban this sick filth) is highly suspicious and should spend 2-5 years in a gulag. e: also what if the civil servants end up enjoying their hunting jobs? suck my woke dick fucked around with this message at 14:03 on Jun 10, 2018 |
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Jun 10, 2018 13:52
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I also like how he's completely ok with "the state"  taking into account the overpopulation problem and implementing a solution. Obviously these dangerous free citizens need to be reigned in. We can put total faith in "The state" .(Its almost as if seeking a utopian state society where we are all safe and prosperous under a federal benefactor always results in the kind of country you get shot in the back in trying to flee over the militarized border) Flowers For Algeria posted:Even one supernumerary death is supernumerary. Ban and melt all guns and hang their owners imo. Yes it is clearly i, the dangerous AR owning ammosexual who is the crazy one. Killing 13 and a half million people to save 400 is completely rational math. Iron Croissant 64 fucked around with this message at 14:36 on Jun 10, 2018 |
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Jun 10, 2018 14:32
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i’m all for the boot of the state but it should be used for things it’s suitable for and not just any random bullshit that personally offends me, the most important&correct individual in the country
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Jun 10, 2018 14:58
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suck my woke dick posted:You have a really messed up relationship to animals, viewing them as basically very hairy people with a special moral status requiring they must be protected against the threat of Yeah, apologies, I used "lifeform" to sound a bit more star trekky but I meant sentient creatures, obviously. Anyway. It sounds like you do not value all sentient life equally, which sounds extremely amoral and hosed up, but I’m quite confident in our ability to eventually inculcate morality into you. I’m also not suggesting that animal population control necessarily take the form of civil servants shooting at deer, since there are more humane ways of dealing with such problems (I already mentioned catch-neuter-release for the Texan hog issue, for instance, but deportation of populations of animals into more controlled environments could work as well). I don’t doubt that some civil servants might enjoy the work because serving the people is always a pleasure, but let’s be honest: who in their right mind would enjoy murder? Iron Croissant 64 posted:drivel
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Jun 10, 2018 15:06
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Iron Croissant 64 posted:I also like how he's completely ok with "the state" there is something deeply beautiful in a gunfucker defending their RaHoWa LARP accessories by crying about how dare someone think a better world is possible.
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Jun 10, 2018 15:58
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These ridiculously uneducated opinions on hunting are terrible but I am fine paying state hunters for population control so whatevs I am not going to talk you out of it.
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Jun 10, 2018 16:30
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Flowers For Algeria posted:Yeah, apologies, I used "lifeform" to sound a bit more star trekky but I meant sentient creatures, obviously. Anyway. quote:I’m also not suggesting that animal population control necessarily take the form of civil servants shooting at deer, since there are more humane ways of dealing with such problems (I already mentioned catch-neuter-release for the Texan hog issue, for instance, but deportation of populations of animals into more controlled environments could work as well). 2) invasive animals reproduce extremely loving quickly in most cases, if they're not fiercely territorial or top predators (there are essentially no invasive top predators currently in existence) then neutering and releasing doesn't do poo poo until you hit ludicrous numbers 3) taking the time of multiple qualified vets plus someone trained to operate a gun (for tranq darts) to neuter some hogs is wasteful when one person trained to operate a gun (for bullets) will do just fine. In addition "transport animals to other places, surely they will do well" is the greatest loving delusion in the history of animal rights-based conservation action, and that's a pretty high bar of other delusions to cross. Unless you propose airlifting animals into even more territory to become invasive in (thereby killing off tons of endangered species and breaking whole ecosystems), all that's going to happen is that you bump local populations over carrying capacity, meaning the whole population gets to enjoy increased starvation and/or heavier disease load (or, if territorial, way more brutal fighting) before the numbers die back down to carrying capacity. I suppose you get to pretend you're a better person because you merely consigned the same number of animals to slower and more painful death instead of putting a bullet in them  quote:I don’t doubt that some civil servants might enjoy the work because serving the people is always a pleasure, but let’s be honest: who in their right mind would enjoy murder? There are no cases where killing an animal that exists should qualify as murder like for a human IMO. There is perhaps a bit of room for debate for very few exceptions like chimps and dolphins if you're really pro animal rights, but anything beyond that is, uh,  .
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Jun 10, 2018 16:40
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archangelwar posted:These ridiculously uneducated opinions on hunting are terrible but I am fine paying state hunters for population control so whatevs I am not going to talk you out of it. I mean I would be too, to whichever extent hobby hunters aren't doing the job, but not for its own sake.
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Jun 10, 2018 16:44
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suck my woke dick posted:I mean I would be too, to whichever extent hobby hunters aren't doing the job, but not for its own sake. I don't care if you give money to hobby hunters to kill a quota and/or ask rich dudes to pay for tags. Make it a progressive tax. Redistribute the meat. Population control and socialism for all.
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Jun 10, 2018 16:48
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Flowers For Algeria posted:It sounds like you do not value all sentient life equally, which sounds extremely amoral and hosed up, Lol. You have the same view of animals and vegetarianism as my goth ex-girlfriend had when she was 12. Animals (excluding humans) are not the same as humans. Further, there are different levels and types of animals. You can't just throw away the history of the world and the natural ecosystem and food cycle because you think its icky that humans eat chickens or that wolves eat rabbits.
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Jun 10, 2018 17:45
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archangelwar posted:These ridiculously uneducated opinions on hunting are terrible but I am fine paying state hunters for population control so whatevs I am not going to talk you out of it. No instead we need to do complicated surgery complete with anesthesia and recovery for hundreds of thousands if not millions of wild animals and relocate them somewhere they're going to cause just as much damage on for at least one generation. Clearly that is the logical answer because life has....... meaning? Or how about instead we drop all the moral relativists from helicopters and solve these problems in one generation? Ze Pollack posted:there is something deeply beautiful in a gunfucker defending their RaHoWa LARP accessories by crying about how dare someone think a better world is possible. People lacking all agency and responsibility for their community and local ecology and "THE sTATE" taking care of everything equals a better world now. Got it. (Im kidding, i dont got it. This seems like the very example people have had in their head for 200 years of what a totalitarian nightmare looks like.) Iron Croissant 64 fucked around with this message at 18:21 on Jun 10, 2018 |
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Jun 10, 2018 18:17
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Iron Croissant 64 posted:No instead we need to do complicated surgery complete with anesthesia and recovery for hundreds of thousands if not millions of wild animals and relocate them somewhere they're going to cause just as much damage on for at least one generation. Clearly that is the logical answer because life has....... meaning? Or how about instead we drop all the moral relativists from helicopters and solve these problems in one generation? Its OK because it is all worthless due to spec ops tacticlol equipped night poachers in pursuit of the trillion dollars of deer poaching spoils shooting out of helicopters while our government is in on it spreading propaganda about successful tagging/limit programs.
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Jun 10, 2018 18:21
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