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Leia flying was goofy. But it made me really happy that at least the character wasn't killed off, so who cares. I hope they've filmed enough of her for IX that Leia can see the end of these Star Wars.
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Jun 10, 2018 06:46
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davidspackage posted:Leia flying was goofy. But it made me really happy that at least the character wasn't killed off, so who cares. They hadn't filmed anything, I believe.
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Jun 10, 2018 06:50
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JJ is going to recon her parents back in, to make TLJ more pointless.
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Jun 10, 2018 06:55
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Recurring motif: things shaking
BravestOfTheLamps fucked around with this message at 10:06 on Jun 10, 2018 |
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Jun 10, 2018 07:07
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tino posted:JJ is going to recon her parents back in, to make TLJ more pointless. If they give her parents and they’re poo poo junk traders then i dunno. It could be okay. But they cannot be anyone.
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Jun 10, 2018 07:33
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Rey's dad is Dexter Jettster.
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Jun 10, 2018 08:32
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It’s Plo Koon!
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Jun 10, 2018 08:35
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BravestOfTheLamps posted:Recurring motif: things shaking Well don't blame me for noticing, it's in the movie.
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Jun 10, 2018 13:39
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I had about the same reaction to the Leia scene as when I watched Mutt swinging through vines with a bunch of CGI monkeys. Feelings of intense shame and pity for everyone involved in its creation. It's bad and really awkward.
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Jun 10, 2018 13:59
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What I disliked was how pointless it ended up being. The only time we'll see Leia use the Force, it's not to protect others, or to help the cause, or to do anything useful, it's purely to get herself out of danger... so she can pass out and do nothing for the rest of the film. And it's not the only sequence like that in the film; reversal after reversal that end up meaning nothing. Does it matter that Ren hesitates before shooting? No, because someone else does anyway. But that doesn't matter either, because Leia survives. But that doesn't matter, because she doesn't do anything. That it looks awkward as hell is just the icing on a fundamentally pointless subplot.
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Jun 10, 2018 14:44
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Angry Salami posted:Does it matter that Ren hesitates before shooting? No, because someone else does anyway. By this reasoning, nothing that adds nuance to a character "matters" unless it leads directly to the next plot point. Ren hesitating matters immensely because it shows he's not 100% gone yet. Leia's flying scene is good and relevant to the plot because - it shows that she has strong, new force powers which foreshadows Luke demonstrating strong new force powers later on - echoes the film's theme of preserving life in times of war + empty deaths being stupid - having Leia literally turn into superman is a strong filmic tribute to Leia / Carrie Fisher and shows so much more respect than, for example, how TFA treats Han (stabbed in stomach and tossed into a hole) - Kylo's mom being alive matters immensely to the plot because he might still turn good
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Jun 10, 2018 15:08
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The problem is that you think Leia is somehow good instead of evil.
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Jun 10, 2018 15:15
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To be fair, Han being thrown into a hole after being stabbed is probably respecting Harrison Ford’s wishes.
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Jun 10, 2018 15:29
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Polo-Rican posted:- having Leia literally turn into superman is a strong filmic tribute to Leia / Carrie Fisher and shows so much more respect than, for example, how TFA treats Han (stabbed in stomach and tossed into a hole) I'm not sure I understand. Are you suggesting that the more beloved a character is, the better treatment they should receive in a story?
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Jun 10, 2018 15:32
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It doesn't really make sense since no one likes the character of Leia.
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Jun 10, 2018 15:34
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BravestOfTheLamps posted:It doesn't really make sense since no one likes the character of Leia. Uhhhh
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Jun 10, 2018 15:38
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Remember how Luke had to go to yoda in ROTJ to confirm what he learned in ESB? I think they will rip that off in 9 but instead Rey will learn that Kylo was lying. Also all the “new” ships in the sequel trilogy are basically just redesigned or incredibly ugly box with a fin on it like the canto bight shuttle. Nothing beautiful and imaginative like the P.T. or OT
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Jun 10, 2018 15:53
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A.I. Borgland Corp posted:I think the AT-ATs had monkey hands in this, that's new That'd be the AT-M6, or the All-Terrain MegaCaliber-Six (named after the cannon on its back), First Order Heavy Assault Walker, or Gorilla Walker I wonder what their top speed is
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Jun 10, 2018 15:54
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Space leia was bad because it completely no-sold Kylo's internal struggle and decision, making it pointless. That it did it in an unintentionally funny way just made it worse. Leia basically did this to Kylo's character development https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YG_U6UgOCeM
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Jun 10, 2018 15:59
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jivjov posted:Uhhhh No one likes a wearisome authority figure without any charisma. She's usually either someone to be acted upon by viewpoint characters or who acts upon them, either an object or a figure of unapproachable authority. This is shown for example the first Star Wars movie, where Luke Skywalker is beguiled by her mysterious hologram figure, but in person she turns out to be demanding and somewhat domineering. Earlier of course she's doing something strange from the perspective of C3PO, establishing her as an ever-distant figure. In The Last Jedi she's either in a coma or lecturing to her followers. She's simply not a character anyone likes. This does not make her innately a bad character. What makes her a particularly bad character is that they try to use this ultra-conservative supporter of aristocracy and theocracy as the moral centre of a story about freedom fighters. BravestOfTheLamps fucked around with this message at 16:06 on Jun 10, 2018 |
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Jun 10, 2018 16:00
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BravestOfTheLamps posted:What makes her a bad character is that they try to use this ultra-conservative supporter of aristocracy and theocracy as the moral centre of a story about freedom fighters. It's because they're supposed to be Irish freedom fighters.
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Jun 10, 2018 16:03
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Jewmanji posted:I'm not sure I understand. Are you suggesting that the more beloved a character is, the better treatment they should receive in a story? Nah, I'm saying this scene is like when the latest star trek movie took a quick time out to eulogize Leonard Nimoy. A nice acknowledgement that a character is larger than life and much more than "just a character in the movie" Polo-Rican fucked around with this message at 16:30 on Jun 10, 2018 |
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Jun 10, 2018 16:18
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That's a lousy tribute then. They should've had a scene where Leia reminiscences about all the cocaine she did while loving Han Solo.
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Jun 10, 2018 16:25
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BravestOfTheLamps posted:That's a lousy tribute then. They should've had a scene where Leia reminiscences about all the cocaine she did while loving Han Solo. Sounds like you're thinking about this very normally and don't have some weird hate boner for Carrie Fisher
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Jun 10, 2018 16:35
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Polo-Rican posted:Sounds like you're thinking about this very normally and don't have some weird hate boner for Carrie Fisher Where did I hate on Carrie Fisher? e: The real life Carrie Fisher is a far more interesting character than Leia, in fact. BravestOfTheLamps fucked around with this message at 16:42 on Jun 10, 2018 |
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Jun 10, 2018 16:38
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Polo-Rican posted:Nah, I'm saying this scene is like when the latest star trek movie took a quick time out to eulogize Leonard Nimoy. A nice acknowledgement that a character is larger than life and much more than "just a character in the movie" I guess I don't understand this. I don't need classic characters/actors to be allowed to take a fourth wall-breaking bow on stage in the middle of the story. If people want to heap praise on the actors, that's what Star Wars conventions are for, we don't need to take time out of the movie to do that. I'm also still confused going back to your original comment re: Han. The whole movie was a victory lap / swan song built and marketed around the return of Harrison Ford as Han Solo. That said, I don't have a conceptual issue with the Leia scene. I think it was filmed in an unintentionally silly way like some people have said, but that's very low on my list of complaints about this somewhat enjoyable, flawed film.
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Jun 10, 2018 16:55
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 Just gonna leave this here. 
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Jun 10, 2018 17:01
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Star Wars films have always been very silly, so it seems strange to be hung up on that scene in particular.
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Jun 10, 2018 17:06
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All flaws in the OT are charming, all flaws in PT and ST are personal slights against my family and thus nothing short of total annihilation is warranted.
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Jun 10, 2018 17:09
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I wonder how we all would have complained between ESB and ROTJ if the Internet had been around for them.
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Jun 10, 2018 17:26
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Jewmanji posted:All flaws in the OT are charming, all flaws in PT and ST are personal slights against my family and thus nothing short of total annihilation is warranted. Most of the flaws are charming. But they really don't give Han and Leia much to do in Return of the Jedi. And the Luke / Leia as siblings part is just baffling.
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Jun 10, 2018 18:11
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BravestOfTheLamps posted:No one likes a wearisome authority figure without any charisma. She's usually either someone to be acted upon by viewpoint characters or who acts upon them, either an object or a figure of unapproachable authority. This is shown for example the first Star Wars movie, where Luke Skywalker is beguiled by her mysterious hologram figure, but in person she turns out to be demanding and somewhat domineering. Earlier of course she's doing something strange from the perspective of C3PO, establishing her as an ever-distant figure. I don't buy the read of Leia as a supporter of aristocracy. She herself is an aristocrat - although the only thing she's princess of is a huge pile of space debris - but she spent her life fighting to establish a representative government and overthrow an emperor. Some of her followers call her things like "Your highness" and she doesn't stop them, while others use her military rank of "General," which you can hardly say she hasn't earned. When she gives orders, it's along a military chain of command, something that's been consistent at least since The Empire Strikes Back. It's not like she has any subjects (though I guess Lor San Tekka may have been a refugee of Alderaan). As far as theocracy, the Rebellion and subsequently the Resistance are very explicitly friendly to the Jedi religion and hostile to anything influenced by the Sith religion. It seems implied that she thinks the Republic would be better off with a reestablished Jedi Order. So that's a fair cop.
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Jun 10, 2018 19:28
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Bongo Bill posted:I don't buy the read of Leia as a supporter of aristocracy. She herself is an aristocrat - although the only thing she's princess of is a huge pile of space debris - but she spent her life fighting to establish a representative government and overthrow an emperor. The character's motivation is to restore power to the Senate, which is aristocratic in character.
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Jun 10, 2018 20:04
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BravestOfTheLamps posted:She's usually either someone to be acted upon by viewpoint characters or who acts upon them, Surprisingly astute insight, going to take a while to digest this.
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Jun 10, 2018 21:47
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BravestOfTheLamps posted:The character's motivation is to restore power to the Senate, which is aristocratic in character. I don't think we know enough about how the election process works to conclude this.
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Jun 10, 2018 22:18
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Leia hasn't earned the rank of general.
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Jun 10, 2018 22:37
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porfiria posted:I don't think we know enough about how the election process works to conclude this. If it's fair and democratic then we have to assume Naboo willingly voted in Jar Jar Binks in. Or actually I think he was associate senator and voted in place for the absent Amidala, maybe that's appointed
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Jun 10, 2018 23:03
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A.I. Borgland Corp posted:If it's fair and democratic then we have to assume Naboo willingly voted in Jar Jar Binks in. Jar Jar Binks is a hero, and Padme was elected to both of the offices that she held in her lifetime.
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Jun 10, 2018 23:08
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Make Naboo great again
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Jun 10, 2018 23:11
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tino posted:JJ is going to recon her parents back in, to make TLJ more pointless. TLJ is the perfect turn for JJ’s prestige if he wants to play it that way.
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Jun 11, 2018 00:48
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