zeal posted:

john brown's plan wasn't to die in a hail of gunfire, though it was an eventuality he and his raiders accepted as pretty probably. the plan, starting at least two years before the actual harper's ferry raid, began with gathering a small, tightly knit band of veterans from the pro/anti-slavery violence in Kansas in the 1850s, of which Brown and his sons were the most famous anti-slavery veterans, and augmenting that core group with younger, idealistic abolitionists (several of them young black men, either born free in the north or escaped slaves). the composite group met in slavery-neutral canada (though they changed hotels once when the first place they went wouldn't seat or serve the black and white guests together). they voted on who should be commander of the operation (i believe the selection of John Brown was unanimous) and sub-officer, then worked out in conference at this hotel where they'd strike, how they'd strike, and what the plan was for the aftermath. the immediate aim was to raid a succession of large plantations near Harper's Ferry, site of the most important federal armory on the east coast, to liberate and then arm the slaves on those plantations. the long-term aim was to escape into the appalachians with as many slaves as would come with them and as many weapons as they could carry off, to form a fortified commune of freed slaves and abolitionists in the mountains.

nobody would claim john brown was a widely read man, but he was extremely thoroughly read in the two subjects that interested him: irregular warfare and religion. in the years leading up to harper's ferry he'd studied intensely the accounts of Spanish partisans in the Pyrennes Mountains who held of far larger, better equipped and better disciplined forces from the French Empire during the Napoleonic Wars, the campaigns of Toussaint Louvertoure in the mountainous southern third of Haiti, the long-standing fortified compounds in the Andes and the Amazon founded by escaped slaves from Spanish and Brazilian plantation systems in South America. there were never any such long-term communities of escaped slaves in wilderness compounds in the united states, unless you count the Black Seminoles of Florida (a whole other story), but brown believed that with the help of radical abolitionists such places could be carved in the appalachians, to create both refuges for runaway slaves south of the mason-dixon and bases from which further raids could be launched to liberate more slaves.

all that went awry when the raiders failed to stop a train that passed through Harper's Ferry on the night of the operation from getting out of town. the train spread word of the raid, which summoned the Virginia militia to besiege the town. The militia fought like the lovely part-timers they were, failed miserably to take Harper's Ferry all day until a detachment of US Marines showed up from DC under the command of none other than Robert E. Lee, then a colonel if memory serves. The marines took the town back building by building, killing or wounding most of Brown's raiders in the process. Only two men made it out, escaping out the back of the armory building and swimming the river that surrounds Harper's Ferry to make it into the Appalachian foothills before escaping to Pennsylvania. one of those two men wrote down his account of the raid not long after; the other major source on its events is the after action report written by Lee. the two escapees' firefight in the woods with a party of Virginia militiamen actually lends credence to the whole long-term plan: despite being outnumbered, the two raiders drove off the Virginians and made good their escape using elevation and tree cover, in a miniature version of the further clashes Brown expected with the militia and eventually the federal military in the mountains.

the closest modern equivalent to what Brown tried to accomplish would be on the order of a band of radical ICE abolitionists breaking open a privately owned prison, arming all the prisoners willing to come with them, and leading those escapees to seize NORAD or a nuclear silo before threatening to turn WMDs on the continental US unless everyone gets let out of the ICE camps.

zeal posted:

john brown's plan wasn't to die in a hail of gunfire, though it was an eventuality he and his raiders accepted as pretty probably. the plan, starting at least two years before the actual harper's ferry raid, began with gathering a small, tightly knit band of veterans from the pro/anti-slavery violence in Kansas in the 1850s, of which Brown and his sons were the most famous anti-slavery veterans, and augmenting that core group with younger, idealistic abolitionists (several of them young black men, either born free in the north or escaped slaves). the composite group met in slavery-neutral canada (though they changed hotels once when the first place they went wouldn't seat or serve the black and white guests together). they voted on who should be commander of the operation (i believe the selection of John Brown was unanimous) and sub-officer, then worked out in conference at this hotel where they'd strike, how they'd strike, and what the plan was for the aftermath. the immediate aim was to raid a succession of large plantations near Harper's Ferry, site of the most important federal armory on the east coast, to liberate and then arm the slaves on those plantations. the long-term aim was to escape into the appalachians with as many slaves as would come with them and as many weapons as they could carry off, to form a fortified commune of freed slaves and abolitionists in the mountains.

nobody would claim john brown was a widely read man, but he was extremely thoroughly read in the two subjects that interested him: irregular warfare and religion. in the years leading up to harper's ferry he'd studied intensely the accounts of Spanish partisans in the Pyrennes Mountains who held of far larger, better equipped and better disciplined forces from the French Empire during the Napoleonic Wars, the campaigns of Toussaint Louvertoure in the mountainous southern third of Haiti, the long-standing fortified compounds in the Andes and the Amazon founded by escaped slaves from Spanish and Brazilian plantation systems in South America. there were never any such long-term communities of escaped slaves in wilderness compounds in the united states, unless you count the Black Seminoles of Florida (a whole other story), but brown believed that with the help of radical abolitionists such places could be carved in the appalachians, to create both refuges for runaway slaves south of the mason-dixon and bases from which further raids could be launched to liberate more slaves.

all that went awry when the raiders failed to stop a train that passed through Harper's Ferry on the night of the operation from getting out of town. the train spread word of the raid, which summoned the Virginia militia to besiege the town. The militia fought like the lovely part-timers they were, failed miserably to take Harper's Ferry all day until a detachment of US Marines showed up from DC under the command of none other than Robert E. Lee, then a colonel if memory serves. The marines took the town back building by building, killing or wounding most of Brown's raiders in the process. Only two men made it out, escaping out the back of the armory building and swimming the river that surrounds Harper's Ferry to make it into the Appalachian foothills before escaping to Pennsylvania. one of those two men wrote down his account of the raid not long after; the other major source on its events is the after action report written by Lee. the two escapees' firefight in the woods with a party of Virginia militiamen actually lends credence to the whole long-term plan: despite being outnumbered, the two raiders drove off the Virginians and made good their escape using elevation and tree cover, in a miniature version of the further clashes Brown expected with the militia and eventually the federal military in the mountains.

the closest modern equivalent to what Brown tried to accomplish would be on the order of a band of radical ICE abolitionists breaking open a privately owned prison, arming all the prisoners willing to come with them, and leading those escapees to seize NORAD or a nuclear silo before threatening to turn WMDs on the continental US unless everyone gets let out of the ICE camps.

SKULL.GIF posted:

I think a bigger part of the lack of prevention is summed up by this conversation that I witnessed last night

and our representatives are so incredibly insulated from their constituents via 800 layers of bureaucracy so they see neither the outrage nor the consequences of their actions

zeal posted:

the closest modern equivalent to what Brown tried to accomplish would be on the order of a band of radical ICE abolitionists breaking open a privately owned prison, arming all the prisoners willing to come with them, and leading those escapees to seize NORAD or a nuclear silo before threatening to turn WMDs on the continental US unless everyone gets let out of the ICE camps.

zeal posted:

The Snoo posted:

I used to think that in the age of open internet (which lol is probably no more) where you can get instant access to information and the horrible poo poo that happens, as it happens, that people wouldn't allow this poo poo to happen, but instead it's labeled as fake news and a large portion of the US is okay with it all anyway because they're racist pieces of poo poo who victim-blame immigrants

qkkl posted:

it would be better to just send the military to confiscate all the weapons we dumped in central america.

Pener Kropoopkin posted:

all the worst fascists who would have been cops are becoming ICE agents instead.

Dairy Tariff posted:

https://twitter.com/willwilkinson/status/1006632699463897094

Zeroisanumber posted:

gently caress Sessions. gently caress ICE.

Al! posted:

the media is 100% complicit

Larry Parrish posted:

liberals are nazis with nicer language

Dairy Tariff posted:

https://twitter.com/willwilkinson/status/1006632699463897094

Pener Kropoopkin posted:

We shouldn't give legitimacy to North Korea because they have prison camps though.

Al! posted:

i dunno is rape considered a just punishment for every crime including nonviolent ones in north korean socoety like it is in the usa

Larry Parrish posted:

liberals are nazis with nicer language

Jose posted:

https://twitter.com/shaneharris/status/1006701593771872257

ikanreed posted:

Lol it's gonna own when it turns out that there's not any accountability for the new SS arresting journalists like there's no accountability for foot soldier cops murdering people.

Larry Parrish posted:

I unironically can't see any solution to the police state and especially the police worship state without like, the entire lower class suddenly becoming radicalized. The voting population of cop-likers is too high, and the prison industry and the FOP is too good at lobbying

Dairy Tariff posted:

too many bootlickers and fascists justifying its culture in America and winning the culture war because they successfully hide under the guise of Nothing but Respect For My Police/Troops