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So newest Corvette from Car and Driver it appears: - 600HP is the entry level V8 - 800HP is the twin turbo V8 - AWD mild-hybrid providing 200HP extra to the wheels for 1000HP - No manual https://www.motorauthority.com/news...n-but-no-manual Seems loving insane.
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Jun 12, 2018 01:24
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We finally got the mid-engined Vette, but we had to sell our very souls to do it 
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Jun 12, 2018 01:37
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They’ve been talking about and printing spy photos of the mid engined Corvette since the mid 1990s.
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Jun 12, 2018 01:55
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dk2m posted:So newest Corvette from Car and Driver it appears: I wonder how much more that mild hybrid will weigh than the twin-turbo variant.
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Jun 12, 2018 02:36
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Mr. Apollo posted:They’ve been talking about and printing spy photos of the mid engined Corvette since the mid 1990s. Yeah except this one is actually real. Those are numbers are pretty insane, but kudos to them for finally breaking free of the 70 year olds who only wanted them to be manuals because they only used the first 200hp to get up to 5mph under the speed limit. If they want some insane flagship that no one who drives Corvettes could afford in an effort to change the "sure it's fast as gently caress but boo the not-Mercedes interior" stigma then I'm all for it, as long as the poverty-spec 600hp version has a mediocre interior at a reasonable price.
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Jun 12, 2018 02:38
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I'll take 1 600 HP N/A V8, please
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Jun 12, 2018 03:06
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Since I can't afford one anyway, let me assure GM that I would never buy that car without a manual transmission.
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Jun 12, 2018 03:09
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dk2m posted:So newest Corvette from Car and Driver it appears: I wonder how many people are gonna be disappointed they can't row their own gears anymore in the Vette. Considering how fast today's automatic/automated transmissions can shift between gears, seems like a manual trans would actually be a performance hindrance. thechalkoutline posted:
*prints out a supersized Calvin sticker to paste so that he pisses on Ram Man's head.* 90s Solo Cup fucked around with this message at 04:21 on Jun 12, 2018 |
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Jun 12, 2018 04:19
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Ram Man reminds you he has a CCW permit and demands you take that back
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Balliver Shagnasty posted:I wonder how many people are gonna be disappointed they can't row their own gears anymore in the Vette. Considering how fast today's automatic/automated transmissions can shift between gears, seems like a manual trans would actually be a performance hindrance. Something like a quarter of Corvette sales are still a manual transmission. I know it's the inferior choice in most cases but I still personally want one and the lack of one is a deal breaker for the most part. I'm not buying a new Vette though.
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Jun 12, 2018 04:26
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Mr. Apollo posted:They’ve been talking about and printing spy photos of the mid engined Corvette since the mid 1990s. Uh, try mid 1960s.
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Jun 12, 2018 05:15
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Frond posted:Uh, try mid 1960s.
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Jun 12, 2018 05:19
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Mr. Apollo posted:Yeah I know they’ve had the CERV concepts going back to the 60s. I just remember every car magazine seemed to have spy photos and an “it’s happening!” article about a mid engined Corvette about once a year when I was in high school. There was a serious push in the early 70s for a mid-engine rotary Vette lol. THAT would have been something. Evidently, a mid-engine 'Vette was approved for production for the MY1980. This one would have a conventional SBC. It was cancelled though. Frond fucked around with this message at 06:58 on Jun 12, 2018 |
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Jun 12, 2018 06:55
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A huge circle lablled 'people who want a manual midengined supercar' A significantly smaller one 'people who can afford supercars' Their intersect holds about 5 people.
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Jun 12, 2018 12:29
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If the butans that control the shifting are lag free, the transmission holds the gear without auto-upshifting, and it does downshifts lag free, I'm all for autos/flappypaddles in sports cars. In my experience*, the lag and the autoshifting completely kill what could be a good driving experience. * Experience granted by manual shifting 4 cylinder econoboxes with transmission shift butans. Also vidya.
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Jun 12, 2018 12:33
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I was a hater until I drove a friend's Cayman with the DCT (PDK). In "sport" mode it behaves almost exactly like you'd want with rev matching and gear holding etc. and it shifts faster than I can get a clutch pedal to the floor. I still enjoy rowing a manual for other reasons but I can totally see the appeal, especially in a high end car. Whether or not GM will get that good of a transmission in the Corvette is another question.
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Jun 12, 2018 13:08
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Balliver Shagnasty posted:I wonder how many people are gonna be disappointed they can't row their own gears anymore in the Vette. Considering how fast today's automatic/automated transmissions can shift between gears, seems like a manual trans would actually be a performance hindrance. The thing is, 95% of people buying a Vette or any other car at that level isn't going to be a good enough driver where the shifting speed even matters. If you want to buy a sports car to drive a sports car and enjoy it, a manual transmission is clutch (pun intended). Otherwise it's just another car.
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Jun 12, 2018 14:05
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I personally have no interest in tracking my cars, so if I get a sports car it's more for cruising around and I'd rather row the gears than have faster shift times. I guess that the sales numbers suggest most casual sport car owners don't want to bother with manuals, though, so a DSG probably captures the bulk of casual owners while still providing better performance for people who want to race. What high end sports cars have manuals nowadays? Porsche GT3?
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Jun 12, 2018 14:07
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Did FCA ever analyze why the Viper failed to sell? I wonder if being manual only hurt sales to any degree. More than, say, paying 100k for a Dodge.
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Jun 12, 2018 14:34
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kimbo305 posted:Did FCA ever analyze why the Viper failed to sell? I wonder if being manual only hurt sales to any degree. More than, say, paying 100k for a Dodge. An Auto would have helped but the car I think was just too raw, unrefined, and lacked the image to take seriously as a premium product. Incredible performance though.
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Jun 12, 2018 14:44
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aparmenideanmonad posted:I was a hater until I drove a friend's Cayman with the DCT (PDK). In "sport" mode it behaves almost exactly like you'd want with rev matching and gear holding etc. and it shifts faster than I can get a clutch pedal to the floor. I still enjoy rowing a manual for other reasons but I can totally see the appeal, especially in a high end car. Even slushboxes can be surprisingly good if you're not giving over transmission programming to NVH and fuel economy beancounters. I liked to refer to our X5M's transmission programming in M mode as rear end in a top hat Mode - the engineers that finalized that programming knew EXACTLY what they were doing. Our X5M had a ZF 6 speed auto; in M mode, you're holding 2nd gear until 55 mph even at partial throttle, not upshifting in corners, very crisp shifts, and of course the car had rear torque vectoring anyway so was hilariously overcapable in corners. But yeah, that was by far and away the best auto programming I have ever had in a vehicle, and as much as I like a manual... It was Pretty Good. Remember that the jointly-designed Ford/GM 10 speed auto used in the ZL1 and Raptor can shift even quicker than pcar PDK boxes, and the ZL1 auto reviews are glowing. That's nuts. Tremek fucked around with this message at 16:10 on Jun 12, 2018 |
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Jun 12, 2018 16:08
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The ZF 6 and 8 speed Auto gearboxes were the turning point for me, their programming is so good and so predictable that outside of the "fun" factor a manual has no advantages left. CVT's on the other hand...
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Jun 12, 2018 16:19
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tetrapyloctomy posted:I personally have no interest in tracking my cars, so if I get a sports car it's more for cruising around and I'd rather row the gears than have faster shift times. I guess that the sales numbers suggest most casual sport car owners don't want to bother with manuals, though, so a DSG probably captures the bulk of casual owners while still providing better performance for people who want to race. What high end sports cars have manuals nowadays? Porsche GT3? Yeah it's kinda been a long while since manuals were 'better' by any measurable metric. Most people have no taste nor sense of subtlety at all (see the 3 foot tall 'RAM' on the latest trucks) so this probably isn't something a lot of people care about. If you can point to a car and say "Faster round track A!!" vs everything else then that's something people can measure against other cars. Quantifying enjoyment out of driving is super subjective which rolls right back into the earlier discussion on if Nissan makes lovely cars or not. It's subjective, and subjective feelings don't sell as well as lap times and numbers saying this transmission shifts .8 seconds faster than that one. I'm sure this mid-engined Corvette will be an excellent car and will be such a bargain compared to A, B or C car from manufacturer D, E or F but man I just can't seem to give a poo poo. I trip over Z06s around town here and those are supposed to be something special but I just glaze over and instead snap my neck trying to see the perfect shape first gen S10 driving by. Suppose I'd be saying the exact same thing about 90s sports cars if I were born a generation earlier.
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Jun 12, 2018 16:19
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watching old people struggle to get in and out of their Corvette is the perfect euphemism for America
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Jun 12, 2018 16:33
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Today's friendly reminder that you can subjectively like Nissan's objectively lovely cars, but your subjective opinion doesn't make them objectively better. It just means you like poo poo things. PS, laughing at how the Frontier - which may be the oldest model made by any manufacturer that's in production and on sale in the US market today - being the only Nissan on the '17 JD Power list. I guess the GT-R might have a chance at greatness in 3 years too!
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Jun 12, 2018 16:44
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tetrapyloctomy posted:I personally have no interest in tracking my cars, so if I get a sports car it's more for cruising around and I'd rather row the gears than have faster shift times. I guess that the sales numbers suggest most casual sport car owners don't want to bother with manuals, though, so a DSG probably captures the bulk of casual owners while still providing better performance for people who want to race. What high end sports cars have manuals nowadays? Porsche GT3? I agree completely but at the same time, if I'm buying a sports car for cruising around rather than tracking it, my shopping list pretty much begins and ends with Miata. I guess I'd love to have a V8 exhaust note for occasional stoplight wackiness, but that's an expensive luxury.
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Jun 12, 2018 16:45
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Proud Christian Mom posted:watching old people struggle to get in and out of their Corvette is the perfect euphemism for America I used to mock the the couple of old dudes that bring their Crossfires to Cars and Coffee because it was easy, now though I appreciate those dudes and instead just nod off when I walk past 15 Corvettes and 15 Mustangs, all brand new and it just feels like a dealership. I'll be peepin' that super clean LS-swapped Miata though.
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Jun 12, 2018 16:46
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A few weeks ago, an older gentleman with a full head of gray hair started tailing the gently caress out of me in his C6 Z06. He proceeded to aggressively pass me, swerved in and out of lanes before gunning it on the on-ramp. I started laughing to myself getting bullied by this old dude, I hope he's enjoying the gently caress out of that car because seeing a Corvette actually driven hard is like the rarest of rare events around here. But that being said, if GM actually releases a mass-produced 1000HP AWD mid-engined Corvette, I'll be super impressed. Especially in the current climate of SUVs/Trucks Only.
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Jun 12, 2018 16:53
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Seeing older vehicles in great condition catches my attention more than any expensive supercar or whatever, because one shows someone who cares and has kept a nice example of something, and one is just conspicuous consumption poo poo any dipshit with money can buy without effort. There is some overlap, not too many poor folks with pristine classic Hemis, but even those dudes have to care and be into it on a level beyond hanging out at the McLaren dealership or sending their assistant to pick up their new 911 Turbo. With regard to manuals, they have a place, and that place is in smaller, slower cars. I daily a manual and it's fine and all, but I'm pretty well convinced that the people who cry about Powerful Sportscar X now having a manual, the one and only true gearbox, have never actually driven a powerful vehicle with a manual and would change their minds pretty quick if they ever did and discovered that oopsie maybe they aren't bad enough dudes to handle a Viper or whatever. Edit: on the topic of cars that should be manual, there's an updated Miata coming that I totally want but don't have the parking for since lol @ owning a Miata as an only vehicle https://www.roadandtrack.com/new-cars/future-cars/a21267933/2019-mazda-mx5-miata-horsepower-specs-details-news/ Wheeee fucked around with this message at 17:09 on Jun 12, 2018 |
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Jun 12, 2018 16:59
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Proud Christian Mom posted:watching old people struggle to get in and out of their Corvette is the perfect euphemism for America The owner of my wife's company is pushing 80 and has a hard time walking, and drives a manual C7 Z06. Takes him a solid minute to get in or out of it. He loving hoons it. Godspeed sir 
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Jun 12, 2018 17:08
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Tremek posted:Today's friendly reminder that you can subjectively like Nissan's objectively lovely cars, but your subjective opinion doesn't make them objectively better. It just means you like poo poo things. JD Power is loving garbage (like most Nissans coincidentally!) And the GT-R despite being ancient is still probably the only great car they make. The 370Z is neat in an old school way. That's pretty much it though.
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Jun 12, 2018 17:14
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Don't they still want way too much money for both of those, especially the 370?
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Jun 12, 2018 17:15
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Lmao at any study that puts Saab and Mitsubishi above the industry average. Saabs cannot drive 3 years without major overhauls and Mitsubishi was covering up defects in it's lousy products from the late 1970s until they got caught in the early 2000s.
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Jun 12, 2018 17:18
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Both my cars are in the top four of the quality index  [e] lol toyota has 1, 2, and 4 then Hummer is 3rd 
Applebees Appetizer fucked around with this message at 17:28 on Jun 12, 2018 |
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Jun 12, 2018 17:25
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Wait why is Infiniti near the top and Nissan at the bottom?
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Jun 12, 2018 17:31
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Frond posted:Lmao at any study that puts Saab and Mitsubishi above the industry average. Saabs cannot drive 3 years without major overhauls and Mitsubishi was covering up defects in it's lousy products from the late 1970s until they got caught in the early 2000s. Go look at how the Long Term Quality folks are doing what they do: http://www.dashboard-light.com/click-here-first/ It boils down to that they're collecting required repairs data on cars that are traded in. That's about as decent a proxy as any for tracking how well cars actually do over their lifespan, and a lot of that data goes back to models that are over 20 years old now. Their site's pretty lovely to use, but click into the specific models for more details about how many of said model are in the data, where there's spikes in occurrences (early 00s Hondas have huge transmission problems and Subarus eat head gaskets, who knew) and it correlates well with most common wisdom about reliability. They have sample size issues with a number of low-volume or uncommon cars not unlike TrueDelta, but that doesn't mean the data isn't representative of trends as a whole. Edit: Infiniti vs Nissan? ... probably a whole host of contributing factors? Could be that most Infinitis are built in Japan versus most Nissans are built in Tennessee; could be that Nissans use far more CVTs and are built to far lower price points than most Infinitis - my marginally uneducated guess is there are a ton of contributing factors. Frankly, if you look at the brand data, without the Titan and Frontier and Armada (read: body-on-frame trucks) Nissan would be even lower in the rankings than they are. So why is Infiniti ranking relatively high? Well - Infiniti G series - about 12,000 cars worth of data, and it shows that the VQ35/37 cars look to be decently reliable. Given that they're using fairly primitive V6s and slushbox transmissions (until they get into the current crazy drive-by-wire steering brakes and throttle years) and have basic bitch interiors, sure, stands to reason that they don't break that much. I guarantee you the earlier G series cars will look pristine in comparison to the long-term reliability of the current-gen Q cars in a few years. Tremek fucked around with this message at 17:46 on Jun 12, 2018 |
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Jun 12, 2018 17:36
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The biggest reason is that the JD list is bullshit. The only people who actually know reliability stats are the manufacturers and they ain't talkin
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Jun 12, 2018 17:37
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Wheeee posted:The biggest reason is that the JD list is bullshit. This is the best comment in Initial Quality for 2018
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Jun 12, 2018 17:45
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Wheeee posted:The biggest reason is that the JD list is bullshit. We're talking about this data, keep up Edit: If you guys wanna get really mad about challenging conventional wisdom let's discuss how bad Subarus really are over the long haul Tremek fucked around with this message at 17:49 on Jun 12, 2018 |
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Jun 12, 2018 17:47
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dk2m posted:So newest Corvette from Car and Driver it appears:
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Jun 12, 2018 18:13
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Tremek posted:We're talking about this data, keep up its worth mentioning that this is just for powertrain, not the entire vehicle
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Jun 12, 2018 18:43
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