Willa Rogers posted:

Condiv posted:

you aren't. you gave a canned reply to a question. one that required no thought cause it's been repeated since before the 2016 election. going on autopilot is not having a conversation. neither is meeting any disagreement with you with "how dare you abandon minorities!" or "yeah but i'm right so you need to vote for the lesser evil".

and no, obviously i don't agree with you on everything but the efficacy of lesser-evilism because i think it's inherently immoral to vote for racists and trump supporters, while you seem to feel duty bound to do so. that doesn't just boil down to lesser evil voting being less effective, there's a lot of reasons why i detest the very concept of your strategy of lesser-evilism. which you might've picked up on if you had been doing anything but posting on autopilot the whole time.

Jaxyon posted:

I'm not seeing anything new from you that I haven't seen for 2 years.

Condiv posted:

then you're not reading. cause i wasn't advocating for not voting for bad dems 2 years ago jaxyon.

Jaxyon posted:

Well then congratulations on genuinely evolving your opinions.

Jaxyon posted:

Jaxyon posted:

Radish posted:

Black women women in mass for Jones, who went on to vote over 50% of the time along with Trump among that deregulating banks allowing them to racially discriminate again is pretty much all you need to know about how the Democrats view the benefits of "lesser of two evils" strategy and what they consider the people they care about representing.

Willa Rogers posted:

That says that almost all black women voted for Jones. However, the rate of voting among black women for that race stayed the same as in prior U.S. Senate elections, iirc.

The graph I posted showed that--even with the most openly racist GOP presidential candidate in modern history--black people didn't "go out and vote hard for the lesser evil," as you contended they did.

theCalamity posted:

What does this have to do with black turnout?

Jaxyon posted:

Black people voted for Clinton more than any other group.

I think that overall, less folks voted for Clinton primarily due to decades of propaganda against her, and the fact that she was a woman. Moreso than her positions not being left enough.


I wouldn't consider Jones a great candidate, but he was the lesser evil compared to a massive racist pedo.

Jaxyon posted:

Black people voted for Clinton more than any other group.

I think that overall, less folks voted for Clinton primarily due to decades of propaganda against her, and the fact that she was a woman. Moreso than her positions not being left enough.

Jaxyon posted:

I wouldn't consider Jones a great candidate, but he was the lesser evil compared to a massive racist pedo.

Condiv posted:

maybe the dnc shouldn't have rigged the primary for her if she was so unelectable.

theCalamity posted:

Yeah, black people voted for Clinton more than any other group, but the turnout dropped.

A lot of black people don't like Clinton for calling black kids super predators

quote:

So what was the turnout for Jones?

Jaxyon posted:

Black folks who have a choice between two racists often stay home. But black folks who have the choice between a lovely Democrat and an openly racist gently caress generally go out and vote hard for the lesser evil. Because they will be directly get hosed by the racist.

But people in this and other threads poo poo on voting lesser evil.

Jaxyon posted:

I've actually run into a decent amount of black men who voted Trump. It throws me every time I encounter it, but it happens. People aren't a hive mind.

Jaxyon posted:

Substantially above expectations. They were expecting about 25% and it was near 40%.

reignonyourparade posted:

Hillary actively LOST a share of the black vote. In 2016 the result of a choice between a lovely democrat and and an openly racist gently caress was A Greater Portion Of Black Voters Vote For The Openly Racist gently caress.

theCalamity posted:

I posted that in explanation as to why turnout dropped for Clinton.


What was the turnout historically?

Jaxyon posted:

They didn't think she was unlecteable. She won the popular vote and only narrowly lost the lection.

Bernie wasn't close in the primaries..

Jaxyon posted:

Everything I've found said it was up, especially in historically black areas.

Condiv posted:

Yeah, that’s usually the intended effect of rigging an election. Though bernie was way closer than he should’ve been, and that hillary had so much trouble with a weird haired old man few had heard of till the primaries spoke to how weak she was.

That the dems had to rig the election in her favor for her to win should’ve been a huge warning sign. Too bad they ignored that and pushed an unelectable candidate on us huh?

Condiv posted:

Sorry, no. The only demographic that saw a turnout rise with hillary was rich old people

Jaxyon posted:

Hillary was more supported by the black vote than Bernie was.

Jaxyon posted:

We were talking about the Alabama election, I thought.

Jaxyon posted:

This is loving stupid. Hillary was the betting choice and she almost won anyhow. That Trump won was a fluke that a had a lot different angles.

You're talking about me trotting out ancient canards but "bernie would have won the primaries but for rigging" is loving hilarious, and I voted for Bernie in the primaries.


We were talking about the Alabama election, I thought.

reignonyourparade posted:

That's a non sequitur to the matter of "we need to lesser evil vote because black people lesser evil vote."

quote:

We are talking about to what degree the black vote subscribes to lesser evilism, you brought up Alabama as an example for your position on that and other people are bringing up Trump vs Hillary as a counterexample.

Condiv posted:

though i gotta say "ha! you're talking about old stuff when i mentioned old stuff! now who's talking about old stuff!!" is pretty worthy even from you jaxyon. too bad it wasn't true and I was using info that we learned in 2017 and 2018

Condiv posted:

But we know the primaries were rigged now. Or did you miss the news that the DNC was funneling millions of dollars into her campaign out of an account intended for the nominee during the primaries? Or anything that’s come out this year? You must be some kind of idiot

Also, if hillary was such a strong candidate she should’ve been able to win without rigged primaries. That she had to buy the DNC shows that her strength as a candidate was all bullshit cooked up by her and her cronies. That she lost to a loving steak salesman is absolute proof that she was a weak as hell candidate and very likely would’ve got knocked out of a fair primary. Oh well

Also, how was it both a fluke trump won? She failed to campaign in states cause she was a massive idiot. That’s not a fluke, that’s hillary managing to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory

Jaxyon posted:

Tons of people thought she was a strong candidate, nobody thought that Trump was going to be.

Heaps of Sheeps posted:

Actually, many people, on these very forums, thought she was a weak candidate who would lose to Trump as early as Feb 2016. They were just shouted down by the liberal BernieBro brigade who were too busy huffing their own farts to see the writing on the wall.

Jaxyon posted:

Not enough people voted for Bernie is something we learned this year?

edit: mistyped biden instead of bernie

Jaxyon posted:

Tons of people thought she was a strong candidate, nobody thought that Trump was going to be.

There's numerous reasons you can give for Hillary losing. Not campaigning hard enough in certain states is some of it. So is voter suppression. So is social media bullshit. So is free media for trump. So is sexism.

You're ignoring the part where a bunch of the country voted for the guy who was vocally racist and sexist, because they like that. They didn't vote for a steak salesman, they voted for the guy who said the awful poo poo that they think.

Heaps of Sheeps posted:

Actually, many people, on these very forums, thought she was a weak candidate who would lose to Trump as early as Feb 2016. They were just shouted down by the liberal BernieBro brigade who were too busy huffing their own farts to see the writing on the wall.

large adult son posted:

the berniebro brigade shouted down hillary's detractors
what?

Jaxyon posted:

"Many people" is pretty vague and there's a bunch of people who show up at every election thread to say that the worst candidate will win. Sometimes they're right, because they say it every time.

I wasn't referring to forums, I was referring to the political wonks, establishment, etc.

Condiv posted:

only you've been posting that jax. pretty sad that you can't differentiate your posts from mine now. maybe you should take a break?


trump wasn't a strong candidate. he was an idiot steak salesman. some people thought hillary was a strong candidate cause they were high on their own farts. but in reality, she was extremely weak. she couldn't even figure out a reason why she was running for president (aside from enriching and empowering herself of course!)

hillary refusing to campaign in certain states cause she was a giant idiot was fixable (well, if hillary wasn't a giant idiot that is). if hillary had actually campaigned like she should've, instead of being an idiot and relying on untested number crunching algorithms to try to minmax the election, or trying to play 11-d chess with trump in michigan, she very certainly would've won. unfortunately, she was such a weak, lovely candidate, and she couldn't pull it off

oh, and btw, that's just one tiny thing she could've changed. another thing she could've changed was actually integrating the left instead of actively making GBS threads on it, not dividing the party in the primaries like an idiot, and adopting some leftist policies. if hillary had campaigned on singlepayer, she would've annihilated trump. but she was too elitist to appeal to anyone but rich old people. which is the only demographic she actually gained with in comparison to obama. too bad.

Condiv posted:

the political wonks were absolutely idiotic. they were huffing hillary's farts and ignoring every warning sign that came up. that they thought hillary had it in the bag really speaks volumes about the intelligence of the political class

Jaxyon posted:

Trump crushed a bunch of experienced politicians. He's an a shithead moron, but he turned out to be a surprisingly good campaigner.

Jaxyon posted:

It's easy to say after the election that anyone who thought she'd win was an idiot, because the outcome is already done.

Jaxyon posted:

Bernie campaigned to the left her and did significantly worse in the primaries. But oh yeah, it was rigged so apparently people couldn't vote for him. Right.

WampaLord posted:

It's not at all shocking that someone with the last name "Clinton" had a major advantage in name recognition in a Democratic primary.

quote:

2020 will be interesting as hell to watch, there will be no centrist establishment pick to rally around, they're gonna be stabbing each other in the back.

Condiv posted:

i think he means the people who were always screaming about bernie bros and how sexist and racist they were

Willa Rogers posted:

And Hillary's campaign decided on the strategy to boost him to become the nominee, lol.

That's the "lesser evil" you're stanning for: the one who handed us the greater evil on a silver platter.