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JazzFlight posted:Yeah, same here. The second half of this season just fell off a cliff for me and that last ep was a major mess, as evidenced by the arguments just in this thread alone. Ugh, so disappointing. just because shitenshi is a loving idiot doesn't mean the episode is retroactively bad
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Jun 14, 2018 06:14
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there are bits that weren't great but overall i enjoyed this season. i think waiting till all the episodes were out to shotgun them was a good idea tho. that scene between syd and david at the end there was so powerful and i was annoyed at the logical incongruity of the shadowking being there allowed distraction from that narrative.
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Jun 14, 2018 06:17
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Perhaps a hamster posted:I think Fargo is on indefinite hiatus, unless that changed recently. read an interview where he states that he hopes to start writing for it start of '19. nothing concrete though.
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Jun 14, 2018 06:21
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Barreft posted:Oh boy, here goes the thread I think this season was "good", but it fell off being "recommendable". I'm invested but I wouldn't necessarily encourage many people I know to jump in. Thematically, I can't really connect with the questions of "should a possibly all-powerful being be allowed live freely" because the world doesn't have many possibly all-powerful beings. At least not in the way David is. Definitely the first four minutes of this ep counteracted a lot of late-season sluggishness though. That was dope as hell.
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Jun 14, 2018 06:27
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This season was too messy and there were too many "lol random" things in it. Felt like a hipster on acid made a lot of the season Farouk and science man are the only relateable and interesting characters
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Jun 14, 2018 06:31
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Zzulu posted:This season was too messy and there were too many "lol random" things in it. The whole season was about David. He was warping reality around him. I agree there were WAY too many random shits showing up, it's like they just wanted to Twin Peaks it up. But overall I like where it ended.
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Jun 14, 2018 06:35
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flatluigi posted:just because shitenshi is a loving idiot doesn't mean the episode is retroactively bad 
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Jun 14, 2018 06:36
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I was snoring at a bit too much of this season and last week's episode was a breaking point of awfulness for sure but the last episode was loving awesome and I loved it and I wish Noah Hawley was better at writing as consistently as he did for Fargo S2 so that I could actually look forward to S3 of Legion without being worried about how much of it is going to be boring vs how much of it I'm going to love. Hey so does the whole "they don't actually list out every chapter" thing mean there are holes in the story we witnessed this season and, what, next season is going to fill some of those holes in? In the same way David wasn't telling Sid the whole story, we aren't going to get the whole story either? Okay sorta reading the thread and: Perhaps a hamster posted:Tbf we didn't get to see chapter 11 yet, which I think is significant, 'cause who knows what the gently caress happened there. DaveKap fucked around with this message at 07:52 on Jun 14, 2018 |
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Jun 14, 2018 07:43
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going to try and write down my thoughts, for my own benefits. First of all, the show could and should have abandoned the sympathetic-towards-david pov a little earlier, which is at least part of the problem that the reception is showing - people have watched this entire thing on the assumption that David is the protagonist and the person to root for, and have ignored/forgotten/disregarded the earlier warning signs that david's deteriorating. In a way that's similar to Breaking Bad - people wanted Whyte to "win", because the narrative is centered around Walter and we are conditioned to think that the central character is who to root for. Also the whole narrative is about White/David overcoming obstacles which further reinforces this assumption - you earn your happy ending/victory. Two: involuntary admission is a thing that exists and happens. If you have demonstrated that you have a serious likelihood to cause harm to yourself or others, you can be forced into a mental health facility to help you and protect yourself and others. David crosses all the boxes that make this the proper response - he has caused harm to others due to his mental condition, he has shown himself to be delusional, and there are serious indications that he will cause greater harm in the future. End of story, the attempt at the end of the episode to shut david down and have him committed was the right call. Having the people who David trusts also be there was also a good call because David's so unpredictable, to keep him from blowing a gasket and help persuade him to cooperate. What was AN INCREDIBLY IDIOTIC idea was to have the one person who David has displayed incredibly violent tendencies towards also be there. But it makes for a good scene and we were never going to end up with David cooperating, so might as well use this complete cock-up as the justification for plot development. And goddamn those are good sunglasses. The way I read the season arc is that outcome was a greek tragedy, in that the one person who can stop David is also the rear end in a top hat who pushed David into this abyss in the first place, and whose personality has re-enforced most of david's problems. Don't loving talk about how nous sommes les dieux, how normal rules don't apply to mutants, and then be surprised when David starts to believe and act on that poo poo. David going off the deep end is in no small part due to Farouk egging him on. Here's what's I think is interesting though, is that I don't think Farouk is capable of not behaving the way he did. He's such an arrogant rear end in a top hat that he has to gloat, he has to be the alpha male in their interactions, further unhinging david. For someone so skilled at manipulation, he's unbelievably blind to the damage he caused in david and the consequences thereof. Which is why Farouk is still a villain. Just not the main threat. (as an aside, Farouk's entire MO is to use and discard people, for the first time (?) he is forced to deal with someone who he has to heal, something he's never cared about before). TLDR, farouk bad, david not bad but incredibly dangerous and needs to allow mental health help, good narrative arc idea but delivery was weak. Gonna binge the next season instead for easier viewing. double nine fucked around with this message at 09:04 on Jun 14, 2018 |
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Jun 14, 2018 08:52
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Zzulu posted:science man I'm pretty sure you mean Glasses McLabcoat.
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Jun 14, 2018 09:08
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Zachack posted:
The underlying problem is that David doesn't respect people's autonomy. You see it too with implanting plans into people's heads. He probably has a good reason for it sometimes (keeping secrets from Farouk) but so do people for feeling threatened by it. The fact that he, when confronted by it, jumps to excuses instead of trying to understand his friends' perspectives is horrifying. Whatever your judgements on the actions of everyone else etc, it doesn't affect this core issue.
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Jun 14, 2018 09:10
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Also, if you guys want more insanity, check the subreddit. There's a stickied mod thread that starts with a definition of rape and gets more insane from there.
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Jun 14, 2018 09:18
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a bunch of nerds not understanding (ability to give) consent? 
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Jun 14, 2018 09:27
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I try to avoid Reddit if at all possible. I only ever go there for humorous GIFs and Star Wars leaks. It is a heinous place.
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Jun 14, 2018 09:28
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Hey how come Cary talks about the smell and taste of beef bouillon when they were kids but earlier in the season she's grossed out by the entire concept of eating and drinking and using a toilet as though they were things she never understood?
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Jun 14, 2018 09:38
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Maybe she was passively experiencing everything 'full 4d smellovision' without actually having to go through the motions of chewing, farting, bathing etc, herself.
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Jun 14, 2018 09:46
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Maybe the writers gently caress up a lot? (cuz they are constantly high)
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Jun 14, 2018 11:00
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I'm not upset if David ends up being the bad guy, I just grew tired of the artsy fartsy bullshit
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Jun 14, 2018 11:10
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Koirhor posted:I just grew tired of the artsy fartsy bullshit David isn't so much the bad guy (I mean, Farooq is still a thing) as he's proof that despite having good intentions, you can still super duper gently caress up and alienate everyone you know without even realizing it. It's his inability to accept this (slightly impossible to do when Farooq [still a thing] is freely walking around) that makes him a bad guy. Unless they actually spend all of Season 3 with tall-haired David (oh GOD do I hope they try this.) I'm now remembering that Professor X originally fought Farooq and I wish he could see what that resulted in. Also, if Farooq was genuine with his insistence that he was trying to get David to love him (ha) why did he manifest himself as a gross yellow-eyed monster man? A suave dude with sweet sunglasses probably would've come across better. DaveKap fucked around with this message at 11:28 on Jun 14, 2018 |
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Jun 14, 2018 11:25
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So, future Syd wanted David to help Farouk retrieve his body, but him getting his body back is what enables David to bash in his head in the desert, so that has to have happened in the dark timeline as well. What was David helping Farouk supposed to change? I guess she hoped he would get his body back faster or something? Farouk actually seems a lot harder to kill in his disembodied state, where he can just jump between hosts while his body is in a secure location.
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Jun 14, 2018 11:40
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Just gotta say that the cover of Behind Blue Eyes with a more menacing reverb was the perfect fit for David losing his moral compass.quote:when my fist clenches crack it open before i use it and lose my cool
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Jun 14, 2018 11:40
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Zachack posted:This is a somewhat poor argument given that the reverse applies during the confrontation at the end, and in far less stressful conditions. Expecting an emotionally unstable person to revert to calm rational behavior after getting into a near-loss psychic super-fight, nearly getting murdered by a woman that he loves and thinks loves him, and then suffering a concussion is a bit much. David assuming that her mind was corrupted by the SK and quickly-but-messily mashing ctrl-z so he could go back to bashing the SK's skull in (I don't recall if D3 was there yet but I thought not) is a fairly reasonable set of actions, and the end of the episode states as much: much as David can't see how others perceive him, Syd didn't seem to realize how others would perceive her actions at that moment - David is stammering a bit but he was portrayed as genuinely confused at some of the accusations in the desert. This is kind of a separate issue. I don't think that David made a completely rational decision, or that he wasn't under a ton of stress to undo something that was threatening to unravel his life. But he made the wrong decision and the whole point of the scene with the alternate personalities immediately beforehand is that they have to talk him into it -- he should know better, and on some level he does. Zachack posted:Having Kerry frame David's action as "treachery" is also unearned unless his magic welding mask was also psychic - from his perspective Syd should have come across as possessed. Tuxedo Catfish fucked around with this message at 14:03 on Jun 14, 2018 |
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Jun 14, 2018 12:42
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DaveKap posted:Also, if Farooq was genuine with his insistence that he was trying to get David to love him (ha) why did he manifest himself as a gross yellow-eyed monster man? A suave dude with sweet sunglasses probably would've come across better. Probably because that's what he really is (at least symbolically), and it's hard to hide yourself from someone completely when you live inside their head. Remember for most of David's childhood he manifested as a golden retriever, and then when he grew up a bit more, as Aubrey Plaza. I think he was choosing these forms strategically for the most part. 
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Jun 14, 2018 12:45
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There's pretty much no way to do a proper superhero battle on a TV budget, but Legion did it with that animated psychic battle. And the fun thing is that it could pretty much only work in this show.
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Jun 14, 2018 13:07
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here's an interview with Noah Hawley that might shed some light on the intentions, if not the execution of this season: http://www.businessinsider.com/noah-hawley-on-legion-finale-fargo-and-doctor-doom-2018-6?international=true&r=US&IR=T quote:Clark: So the 11th episode came along late and wasn't always part of the plan, right?
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Jun 14, 2018 13:39
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Serf posted:There's pretty much no way to do a proper superhero battle on a TV budget, but Legion did it with that animated psychic battle. And the fun thing is that it could pretty much only work in this show. Watching that scene I wondered whether it was because of a lack of budget, or imagination, that the infamous Heroes battle didn't do similar.
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Jun 14, 2018 13:44
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Chubby Henparty posted:Watching that scene I wondered whether it was because of a lack of budget, or imagination, that the infamous Heroes battle didn't do similar. If it had happened in that episode of Heroes, people would have thought of it as a complete disaster. But on Legion? That poo poo is downright normal. They even set it up in season 1 with the chalkboard animation representing the fight between Professor X and Farouk. Between the dance battle at the beginning of this season and the cartoon duel at the end, Legion has shown that they have creative methods for displaying titanic clashes of mutant power. It reminds me of an interview I saw once with George Lucas where he discussed the duel between Obi-Wan and Darth Vader in A New Hope and how the intention was that underneath the swordfight there was a supernatural battle of wills occurring but he didn't have the technology to put that onscreen. I think Legion just showed that supernatural battle and skipped the physical confrontation altogether, at least until the fork rings.
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Jun 14, 2018 13:50
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It’s worth pointing out, just for contemplation’s sake, that there was a good 5 minutes of narration devoted to the notion of sanity and normalcy and how the sane one becomes the crazy one, if everyone else is crazy. So... who knows...
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Jun 14, 2018 14:58
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lol I just realized the guy who’s arguing that it’s not rape is the same person who came in here after watching a random mid-season episode to tell us that the show is stupid
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Jun 14, 2018 15:09
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I'm sure they have a
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Jun 14, 2018 15:24
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So, what was the deal with the Job Hamm narration throughout the season? Who was he talking to -- us? For most of the season it was presented as talking to the audience but in this episode -- for the first time iirc -- his voice appears diagetically via the old tyme TV's in the split personality scene. The show seems to be saying that this is a real voice in David's head. Is it an aspect of his personality / mental illness or from an outside source? Will it be addressed in S3 do you think or was it just a production flourish?
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Jun 14, 2018 15:28
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There's a lot of hot takes the finale ITT, but what's the explanation for them just releasing the totalitarian mind controlling mutant loose? They were bent on apprehending him and stopping him from getting his body, but then suddenly let him walk free and potentially mind-control them all? Doesn't make sense to me, the only explanation I can come up with is that, at the end of the episode, he is influencing all of them heavily, which clashes with the narrative that David is in the wrong and his actions are selfish and wrong because they all become unreliable narrators. Syd, for example, was actually shown to be manipulated, even if justly, to mistrust David. Her going to shoot him was really badly presented, I felt - her rationale seemed off, she was going to murder her love in cold blood because someone told her he mind turn bad at some point in the future. Basically, what David said himself. And that also made the episode confusing, because, apart from the mind wipe on Syd following sex scene, he was in the right.
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Jun 14, 2018 16:07
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Serf posted:There's pretty much no way to do a proper superhero battle on a TV budget, but Legion did it with that animated psychic battle. And the fun thing is that it could pretty much only work in this show.
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Jun 14, 2018 16:11
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Monglo posted:Basically, what David said himself. And that also made the episode confusing, because, apart from the mind wipe on Syd following sex scene, he was in the right. what was he right about? David can read minds, he can tell when an insanity monster is nesting inside someones' head so he could have been able to tell if Syd was mind controlled by Farouk, plus they were under the influence of the choke while she was pointing a gun at him so she couldn't have been under his control during that scene. Same goes for loving Oliver, David would be able to tell if Farouk was still inside, he chose to torture Oliver anyways.
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Jun 14, 2018 16:17
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Is this ending as bad as it sounds Because it sounds loving awful
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Jun 14, 2018 16:31
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Escobarbarian posted:Is this ending as bad as it sounds It felt like the show was trying to gaslight the audience when Syd kept tsk-tsking him at gunpoint when I was shouting at the screen, "uh, Farouk is on the ground and about to regain his powers, how about we deal with him first instead you stupid character!"
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Jun 14, 2018 16:58
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Escobarbarian posted:Is this ending as bad as it sounds Nah, the last episode kicks into high gear and it owns.
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Jun 14, 2018 17:00
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At least watch the first few minutes for David and Farouk's fight, it's pretty great.
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Jun 14, 2018 17:03
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Koirhor posted:I'm not upset if David ends up being the bad guy, I just grew tired of the artsy fartsy bullshit He clearly isn’t the bad guy, the entire season was Farouk’s manipulating everyone around him, hes probably the one who sent syd back into the past. People are annoyed at the ending because it’s not obvious just how much control he has over everyone
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Jun 14, 2018 17:51
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Doorknob Slobber posted:what was he right about? David can read minds, he can tell when an insanity monster is nesting inside someones' head so he could have been able to tell if Syd was mind controlled by Farouk, plus they were under the influence of the choke while she was pointing a gun at him so she couldn't have been under his control during that scene. Same goes for loving Oliver, David would be able to tell if Farouk was still inside, he chose to torture Oliver anyways. He couldn’t tell until the insanity monster had reached its peak. Farouk planted this seed inside everyone’s head of David being a monster and it grew until they started a witch hunt and completely ignored the villain right beside them
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Jun 14, 2018 17:54
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