p-lang thread: (now (have you (problems two)))

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Serious Hardware/Software Crap > YOSPOS > p-lang thread: (now (have you (problems two)))

«‹›1784 »

Fiedler: Jun 29, 2002; I, for one, welcome our new mouse overlords.

Suspicious Dish posted:

What the gently caress is this guy talking about with "compiles to native code". Also VS Code doesn't use react-native and doesn't have mobile ports. Jeez.

he's really stupid... like so stupid that he's a javascript fanboy.

# ? Jun 13, 2018 17:10

Adbot: ADBOT LOVES YOU

# ? Jun 4, 2024 01:18

Suspicious Dish: Sep 24, 2011; 2020 is the year of linux on the desktop, bro; Fun Shoe

reminds me of that time the random Microsoft guy just shouted "WASM" without understanding what it even was or what it can do.

# ? Jun 13, 2018 17:15

mystes: May 31, 2006

They should probably clarify it before people start freaking out that it means that all sorts of office features are likely to go away.

Also, even if it's just the UI, this shift to js is probably going to make people even more scared about the future of Windows application development.

# ? Jun 13, 2018 17:18

necrotic: Aug 2, 2005; I owe my brother big time for this!

isnt he talking about 365? of course the UI is in javascript 365 is a webapp

# ? Jun 13, 2018 17:19

Suspicious Dish: Sep 24, 2011; 2020 is the year of linux on the desktop, bro; Fun Shoe

office 365 is also the brand for their subscription office thing which gets you desktop copies of office, but yeah microsoft branding being terrible plus a terrible tweet means you get this mess

# ? Jun 13, 2018 17:22

necrotic: Aug 2, 2005; I owe my brother big time for this!

oh thats dumb

# ? Jun 13, 2018 17:28

Thermopyle: Jul 1, 2003; ...the stupid are cocksure while the intelligent are full of doubt. �Bertrand Russell

mystes posted:

Also, even if it's just the UI, this shift to js is probably going to make people even more scared about the future of Windows application development.

maybe regular, traditional windows devs, but lots of web devs will be excited

that is bad or maybe good i dunno im not sure

on the one hand there are a lot of legit problems with ui development with js so developers should be scared of the idea

on the other hand maybe that will mean theres a lot more devs making windows apps so its good for end users

or maybe not

maybe it will be a poo poo dev experience even if you're used to js web dev

# ? Jun 13, 2018 18:24

Carthag Tuek: Oct 15, 2005; Tider skal komme,
tider skal henrulle,
sl�gt skal f�lge sl�gters gang

js is the worst

# ? Jun 13, 2018 19:43

eschaton: Mar 7, 2007; Don't you just hate when you wind up in a store with people who are in a socioeconomic class that is pretty obviously about two levels lower than your own?

mystes posted:

Also, even if it's just the UI, this shift to js is probably going to make people even more scared about the future of Windows application development.

finally people will start using iWork!

# ? Jun 13, 2018 20:34

Fiedler: Jun 29, 2002; I, for one, welcome our new mouse overlords.

eschaton posted:

finally people will start using iWork!

can you use iwork to install office 365?

# ? Jun 13, 2018 21:17

Slurps Mad Rips: Jan 25, 2009; Bwaltow!

you're all talking about office while the best tweet is immediately after

https://twitter.com/TheLarkInn/status/1006747371789639681

i've never seen someone be "the most wrong", but here we are.

# ? Jun 13, 2018 22:05

rjmccall: Sep 7, 2007; no worries friend; Fun Shoe

what

# ? Jun 13, 2018 22:34

JawnV6: Jul 4, 2004; So hot ...

https://twitter.com/TheLarkInn/status/1006763363219705856

# ? Jun 13, 2018 22:37

pokeyman: Nov 26, 2006; That elephant ate my entire platoon.

is it a cry for help

# ? Jun 13, 2018 22:37

DONT THREAD ON ME: Oct 1, 2002; by Nyc_Tattoo; Floss Finder

wow that person is crazy stupid.

# ? Jun 13, 2018 22:41

akadajet: Sep 14, 2003

JawnV6 posted:

https://twitter.com/TheLarkInn/status/1006763363219705856

this dude needs to step away from twitter

# ? Jun 13, 2018 22:58

carry on then: Jul 10, 2010; by VideoGames
(and can't post for 10 years!)

javascript brain worms

# ? Jun 13, 2018 23:01

Thermopyle: Jul 1, 2003; ...the stupid are cocksure while the intelligent are full of doubt. �Bertrand Russell

i suppose all languages have their hardcore fans and you see this rabid JS boosterism because like almost every developer has to touch JS at some point so there's just more JS touchers than there are other languages

but anyway, there sure seems to be a lot of people who become irrationally attached to js

# ? Jun 13, 2018 23:20

Fiedler: Jun 29, 2002; I, for one, welcome our new mouse overlords.

a team responsible for javascript tools should approach the task with the proper sense of embarrassment and shame, but no... microsoft just hired morons who don't know any better.

# ? Jun 13, 2018 23:21

mystes: May 31, 2006

Clearly they should be rewriting office in go, a language specifically designed for programmers who can't be trusted to have correct opinions

# ? Jun 13, 2018 23:31

luchadornado: Oct 7, 2004; A boombox is not a toy!

JawnV6 posted:

https://twitter.com/TheLarkInn/status/1006763363219705856

this guy seems like a peach to work with

# ? Jun 14, 2018 00:12

Toady: Jan 12, 2009

twitter snark is so obnoxious

# ? Jun 14, 2018 00:24

Gazpacho: Jun 18, 2004; by Fluffdaddy; Slippery Tilde

somehow i dont think i'd want to work with a guy who keeps alternately swooning and weeping

# ? Jun 14, 2018 00:34

Gazpacho: Jun 18, 2004; by Fluffdaddy; Slippery Tilde

(because he'd remind me too much of myself)

# ? Jun 14, 2018 00:35

luchadornado: Oct 7, 2004; A boombox is not a toy!

would you attend his class though?

https://twitter.com/TheLarkInn/status/1007012969643798529

# ? Jun 14, 2018 00:36

Suspicious Dish: Sep 24, 2011; 2020 is the year of linux on the desktop, bro; Fun Shoe

Slurps Mad Rips posted:

you're all talking about office while the best tweet is immediately after

https://twitter.com/TheLarkInn/status/1006747371789639681

i've never seen someone be "the most wrong", but here we are.

where's jf bastien when you need him

# ? Jun 14, 2018 00:42

carry on then: Jul 10, 2010; by VideoGames
(and can't post for 10 years!)

https://twitter.com/gruber/status/1006942150901329923

# ? Jun 14, 2018 01:08

Sweeper: Nov 29, 2007; The Joe Buck of Posting; Dinosaur Gum

I wrote some templates today, it was good, c++ is nice I like it

# ? Jun 14, 2018 02:31

Toady: Jan 12, 2009

carry on then posted:

https://twitter.com/gruber/status/1006942150901329923

yeah, gruber's on an anti-swift crusade again. he linked to a blog by a guy wanting objective-c 3.0

# ? Jun 14, 2018 06:41

TheFluff: Dec 13, 2006; FRIENDS, LISTEN TO ME
I AM A SEAGULL
OF WEALTH AND TASTE

I started looking into rust the other day. seems p nice so far, so what�s the catch?

# ? Jun 14, 2018 07:21

eschaton: Mar 7, 2007; Don't you just hate when you wind up in a store with people who are in a socioeconomic class that is pretty obviously about two levels lower than your own?

the Rust Evangelism Strike Force for one

# ? Jun 14, 2018 07:25

Athas: Aug 6, 2007; fuck that joker

Why does the Markdown guy care so much about Swift and Objective C? Does he write much code?

# ? Jun 14, 2018 07:37

Toady: Jan 12, 2009

Athas posted:

Why does the Markdown guy care so much about Swift and Objective C? Does he write much code?

it sounds like he doesn't have firsthand experience programming in swift beyond playgrounds. the usual things you do to develop a mac or ios app in swift are the same as in objective-c. most people won't touch the advanced stuff unless they're library authors. if you could take a look at the code for all the behind-the-scenes magic going on in cocoa, it would look complex too

objective-c is a cool technology that enabled frameworks and tools that were ahead of their time, but people often leave out that it's a superset of c when they call it a simple language, and they overlook its oddities that confuse newcomers. e.g., nil/Nil/NULL/NSNull

# ? Jun 14, 2018 07:42

redleader: Aug 18, 2005; Engage according to operational parameters

TheFluff posted:

I started looking into rust the other day. seems p nice so far, so what’s the catch?

it's neither c nor c++ :cppsay:

# ? Jun 14, 2018 08:14

OldAlias: Nov 2, 2013

Toady posted:

it sounds like he doesn't have firsthand experience programming in swift beyond playgrounds

it doesn't sound like they have experience in either language to be making such a statement

# ? Jun 14, 2018 08:49

TheFluff: Dec 13, 2006; FRIENDS, LISTEN TO ME
I AM A SEAGULL
OF WEALTH AND TASTE

redleader posted:

it's neither c nor c++ :cppsay:

some other nerds i know said it had "too many features" and just kept adding on more
i think they'd rather just keep writing c forever tho

# ? Jun 14, 2018 09:07

champagne posting: Apr 5, 2006; YOU ARE A BRAIN
IN A BUNKER

i want to imagine that when you've cracked c and all that comes with it you don't want to make life easier, a sunk cost thing if you will

# ? Jun 14, 2018 09:14

Sagacity: May 2, 2003; Hopefully my epitaph will be funnier than my custom title.

some new features of rust are maddening, though. I kinda get why they're implemented in a certain way, but still...

for instance, 'impl trait' allows you to finally have a return type in your function that specifies a trait and not a complete implementation
so you can do:

code:

fn foo(n: u32) -> impl Iterator<Item = u32> {
    ...some streaming/mapping/filtering...
}

instead of

code:

fn foo(n: u32) -> Chain<
    Map<'a, (i32, u8),
    u16,
    Enumerate<Filter<'a, u8, vec::MoveItems<u8>>>>,
    SkipWhile<'a, u16, Map<'a, &u16, u16, slice::Items<u16>>>
> {
    ...some streaming/mapping/filtering...
}

that's a clear win and i'm unsure why it took them so long to implement this

however, if there are two paths in your code that map to the same type of iterator it won't work, e.g.:

code:

fn sum_to(n: u32) -> impl Display {
    if n == 0 {
        0
    } else {
        n + sum_to(n - 1)
    }
}

the reason is that they don't know if this will work in all cases (from their rfc: "But variance caused by lifetime parameters and the interaction with specialization makes it uncertain whether this would be sound.")

so their proposed workaround, just use a nested function:

code:

fn sum_to(n: u32) -> impl Display {
    fn sum_to_(n: u32) -> u32 {
        if n == 0 {
            0
        } else {
            n + sum_to_(n - 1)
        }
    }
    sum_to_(n)
}

again, i *kinda* get why they're doing this, but it's making one part of the language more ergonomic while adding another subtle 'gotcha' you need to keep in your head while developing

rust is full of this kind of thing, you basically have to know what the rustc authors were thinking when they were implementing the feature, and that's the list of things you're not allowed to do (or have to workaround)

# ? Jun 14, 2018 10:37

Athas: Aug 6, 2007; fuck that joker

That looks like a restriction that can be easily lifted if someone figures out why it's sound, or kept in place if someone figures out it's necessary anyway. So this doesn't lock down the language from doing better (if possible) in the future.

# ? Jun 14, 2018 12:41

Adbot: ADBOT LOVES YOU

# ? Jun 4, 2024 01:18

Sagacity: May 2, 2003; Hopefully my epitaph will be funnier than my custom title.

Athas posted:

So this doesn't lock down the language from doing better (if possible) in the future.

sure, and in fact they are going to introduce an 'edition' idea whereby stuff can be deprecated but your cratecan still mark itself as using an older edition for rust and it will just compile it like that

anyway, i'm sure all of these things can be improved or fixed in the future, but you could argue the same thing for all languages. heck, maybe c++ will even have concepts and modules 'in the future'

what i'm trying to say that there a lot of these restrictions *right now* which makes rust a really difficult and unstable language to get into, imho. i still like it, just because it is one of the few real alternatives to c++, but i wouldn't use it for anything needing any kind of stability right now

(not even talking about all those crates continually 'rebooting' themselves so they're perpetually stuck at a 0.1-like level)

# ? Jun 14, 2018 13:57

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Serious Hardware/Software Crap > YOSPOS > p-lang thread: (now (have you (problems two)))

«‹›1784 »